People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Dec 2010 10:25

rohitvats wrote:^^^SSridhar guru, Is it kosher to buy the book by this gentlemen? I already have some material on historical context of Sino-Indian boundary in Kashmir and Ladakh and would want to add to it. Thanx.

Rohit, I have not yet had access to the book, but I think one must add this to one's library. AG Noorani does diligent work though sometimes I have seen him tear things out of context and cling to them with tenacity. His analysis can be ignored at times for this reason, but his data could be useful.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 17 Dec 2010 10:29

No mention of ‘One China’ is New Delhi reply to Beijing for its silence on J&K

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/no-me ... dk/725951/

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 17 Dec 2010 10:33

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Lgr6Pf-t3M&NR=1

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 17 Dec 2010 13:54

Prem wrote:
SBajwa wrote:Last time Chinese prime minister Zhou en lai visited India 1962 war broke out. Let's see what happens now.
Winter setting in now, so it has to be in coming summer time before they rey any mischief. India has to watch out for them at least for the next 4-5 Springs and Summers.

eternal vigil is required
Sabutai Khan crossed the high Pamirs in winter whilst Genghiz Khan led the main army over the 'impassible' Kizl Kum desert to attack the Khwarizmian Empire in a pincer movement achieving total strategic surprise

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 17 Dec 2010 16:56

Goodbye Wen...after eating spicy Delhi food, your orifices must be burning...so logical next stop is Is-slum-bad where the terrorist barbarians will give it the TLC it needs...

arunsrinivasan · Post by **arunsrinivasan** » 17 Dec 2010 19:42

FWIW India seems to show some signs of playing hardball ... though GOI have a long way to go before they make us jingos happy

Wen's visit, the inside story: Nothing gained, nothing given

Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao flew to 'all-weather friend' Pakistan from here this afternoon without neither giving anything away to India nor taking anything away from it except the message that the entire Indian political leadership across party lines was united when it comes to bilateral ties with Beijing.

Top government sources said Prime Minister Manmohan Singh led the Indian side from the front and decided to play hardball till Beijing paid heed to Indian concerns on Pakistan, Kashmir, bilateral trade and building a dam on River Brahmputra in Tibet. This resulted in the following:

a. Despite repeated requests, New Delhi made it clear that it would have no reference of the regional trade agreement (RTA) with Beijing in the joint statement and will not enter into any negotiation till such time the bilateral trade balance is corrected. When India decided to go for RTA with China in 2005 under pressure from the South Block, the total bilateral trade was $19 billion. Today, the trade deficit on Indian side is $19 billion alone as the bilateral trade will touch $60 billion at the end of this fiscal.

b. New Delhi decided to ditch any references to defence exchanges in the joint statement as it made it clear that it was Chinese unilateral action of giving a stapled visa to the Indian Northern Army Commander Lt General B S Jaswal which triggered off the deep freeze in bilateral relationship. It was made clear that till such time the policy of stapled visa to Jammu and Kashmir residents including Army officers posted in the state was not reversed, the defence relationship would be in the cold.

c. As Wen Jiabao refused to commit himself to addressing any Indian concern over stapled visas, Chinese projects in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir and terrorist groups like Lashkar-e-Toiba targetting India, New Delhi for the first time did not reiterate the One China policy. In fact, External Affairs Minister S M Krishna had sounded off his Chinese counterpart in Wuhan on November 15, 2010 that Kashmir was to India just as Tibet was to China.

So behind the optics of a bilateral relationship with a great future, both sides held their ground with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh uncharacteristically doing some plainspeak to Wen Jiabao during the official arrangements. It was Manmohan Singh – who was briefed by Indian Ambassador to China S Jaishanker last Sunday on the visit — who raised the issues of Chinese projects in PoK, the Chinese dam on River Brahmaputra and stapled visa both in front of the official delegations and in private conversations.

Wen, according to sources, gave elliptical answers to both questions by saying that China was neutral to India and Pakistan’s issue on Kashmir and that Beijing was conscious to its international commitments on building an upstream project on the river. The Indian reply to Chinese position of neutrality was that if Beijing has nothing to do with Kashmir then why was it giving stapled visa to citizens from the state. The fact is that China started issuing stapled visas in 2008 but it was only in 2009 that New Delhi decided to take up the issue.

The other issue on which Wen Jiabao expected bilateral movement was an announcement on the beginning of negotiations on RTA between the two countries.

However, the Indian Commerce Ministry stood its ground and said that no headway in negotiations was possible till the trade imbalance was rectified. It was only towards the end of his visit that the Chinese Premier realised that the bilateral relationship between the two Asian giants was a long haul and this time Beijing would have to blink first.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Dec 2010 21:16

So we have two Prime Ministers talking on Indian soil, and the Chinese PM is unwilling to budge on something so "simple" as "stabled visas", or giving Chinese visas to Indian Army officers who have served in J&K!

If people think, this is only to irritate New Delhi, then it should have become clear, that this signifies a fundamental policy change on the part of China on J&K and there are a lot more fireworks in the offing.

Sometimes some ordinary looking symptoms point to dangerous underlying diseases!

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 17 Dec 2010 21:47

i think bhau showed up to dominate and instill fear, neighbourhood folks stood up and called bluff
bhau is in dance bar with chameli to feel better before going back to chawl
he'll be back with a petro bomb

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 17 Dec 2010 23:07

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12015362
Japan defence review warns of China's military might
17 December 2010 Last updated at 11:50 GMT

It said Beijing's military build-up was of global concern. Japan shares a maritime border with China.

It will also strengthen its missile defences against the threat from a nuclear-armed North Korea.
China has responded saying it is a force for peace and development in Asia and threatens no-one. China's Foreign Ministry said no country had the right to make irresponsible comments on China's development.
[...]
Defences will be scaled down in the north, where they have been deployed since the Cold War to counter potential threats from the former Soviet Union. The military focus will now be in the south of Japan, closer to China and remote flashpoint islands near Taiwan.

The guidelines say Japan is concerned by China's growing military spending, modernisation of its armed forces, and increased naval assertiveness in the East China and South China seas.
"These movements, coupled with the lack of transparency on China's military and security issues, the trend is a concern for the region and the international community," the new guidelines say.

* Troops moved from north to south, near maritime border with China
* More Patriot missiles to counter possible North Korean attack
* Defence budget of 23.49tn yen (£180bn; $280bn) for next five years, down 3%
* More submarines (up from 16 to 22); fewer tanks (down from 600 to 400)
* Review labels China military build-up "matter of concern"; US-Japan alliance "indispensable"

Armed forces Japan China
Submarines 18 9
Destroyers 41 27
Fighters 310 1,320
Battle tanks 876 9,840
Active personnel 237,000 2,255,000

AKalam · Post by **AKalam** » 18 Dec 2010 01:58

"Tibetans in India Protest Wen Jiabao's Visit"

http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/ns_ch ... 44573.html

New Tang Dynasty Television (NTDTV) (traditional Chinese: 新唐人電視臺) is a Falun Gong-affiliated[1] Chinese language television broadcaster based in New York City, founded in 2001; it has a strong human rights focus as it tries to deliver hard to access information about human rights abuses in China. The company's stated mission is "to foster mutual understanding between Chinese and Western societies" and promote multiculturalism, peace and compassion.

The station uses Eutelsat's W5 satellite to broadcast to Asia. Eutelsat attempted to drop NTDTV in 2005, but an international campaign forced it to sign a new long term contract.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Tang_D ... Television

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2010 10:49

China's western push strengthens Pakistan's links
Posting in full. This is important.

China and Pakistan are expected to discuss long-pending plans to accelerate construction of rail-lines and a pipeline from Kashgar in China's west to the port of Gwadar on the Persian Gulf, during Premier Wen Jiabao's three-day visit to Islamabad which began on Friday.

The Silk Road oasis town of Kashgar, which lies a few hours away from the Pakistan border along the Karakoram Highway, is at the centre of China's plans to develop its restive Muslim-majority Xinjiang region, which neighbours Pakistan. China has recently announced it will build a trading hub in the city, which will serve as a platform for Beijing to deepen economic and strategic links with energy-rich West and Central Asia.

The plan, officials and analysts say, is bringing new importance to Beijing's ties with Islamabad, given that Pakistan will play a crucial role, both from the point of view of diplomacy and simply, geography, in linking China with Afghanistan and West Asia.

“One of the most important reasons why we value our relations with Pakistan is that the country can play the role of a bridge between China and the Muslim world,” Hu Shisheng, a scholar at the China Institutes for Contemporary International Relations (CICIR) told The Hindu in a recent interview ahead of Mr. Wen's visit.

Kashgar's transformation from an ancient Silk Road town to a modern trading hub is gathering pace, said Muhammed Ahmed Khan of the Kashgar-based Pakistan Business and Investment Promotion Council, in an interview during a visit to the city earlier this year.

The view from the window of Mr. Khan's modest office, located along a dusty highway in Kashgar's suburbs, shows a city in the throes of transformation.

Trucks carrying construction equipment clog the roads, as construction cranes work day and night to transform the historic old town into a sprawling Economic Development Zone — the “Shenzhen of the West”, as one Chinese official says, referring to China's first Special Economic Zone.

The trickle of businessmen that accompanied him when he first moved to this city has grown into a flood, he says. In 2008, China began widening the highway, from the current 10 metres to 30 metres. China has also stepped up its investments in PoK, recently signing $525-million deals to build highways.

The investments, say Chinese analysts, indicate China's long-term intentions to strengthen economic links in the region.

Chinese engineers in Kashgar have recently completed a feasibility study for the building of a railroad and an oil pipeline, according to Li Xuguang of Tsinghua University. Sixty per cent of China's imported oil comes from West Asia. The construction of a pipeline from the port at Gwadar, which is being built by China, will reduce Chinese dependence on the narrow Malacca Straits, through which 80 per cent of China's supplies pass, say officials.

The plans have been accelerated since July 2009, when ethnic unrest in Xinjiang, between native Uighurs and China's majority Han Chinese who have migrated to the region, left at least 197 dead. “After July, China will carry forward plans to build a new economic development zone in Kashgar, as part of modified development policies in the frontier region,” said Mr. Hu.

Pakistan's renewed importance was recently evident, according to Mr. Hu, after the floods in Pakistan last year. “That is why this year after the unprecedented foods in Pakistan we donated about $250 million,” he said. “This kind of assistance never happened in China's history before.”

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Dec 2010 11:16

arunsrinivasan wrote: c. As Wen Jiabao refused to commit himself to addressing any Indian concern over stapled visas, Chinese projects in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir and terrorist groups like Lashkar-e-Toiba targetting India, New Delhi for the first time did not reiterate the One China policy. In fact, External Affairs Minister S M Krishna had sounded off his Chinese counterpart in Wuhan on November 15, 2010 that Kashmir was to India just as Tibet was to China.

We should have said that (J&K and Arunachal Pradesh) are to India as Tibet was to China.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 18 Dec 2010 11:30

Taiwan was also mentioned a while ago.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Dec 2010 11:31

Wen visit has had stabilising effect: Delhi

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Wen-v ... lhi/726260

It’s reliably learnt that on the issue of a permanent membership of the UN Security Council, Wen is believed to have said China will not be an obstacle to India seeking a permanent seat. While these were assurances that did not find their way into a public statement, sources said, they did indicate the significant gap this visit managed to cover.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 18 Dec 2010 11:49

abhishek_sharma wrote:
We should have said that (J&K and Arunachal Pradesh) are to India as Tibet was to China.

Taiwan was also mentioned a while ago so no worries. We have plenty to yank their chain and things are getting hotter. The chinese are behaving as if PoK is their father's property but they are setting up for a military confrontation with India.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 18 Dec 2010 13:36

To my pleasant surprise, our China policy has been very assertive and straight forward over the past 3 or 4 years. It's unwise military moves have been adequatly responded to which has let it be known to them that India can make an excellent friend as well as a comprehensive enemy (if forced). This so called "assertive" FP of the CPC has spectaculalrly backfired, instead of pushing states and intimidating them into respecting China's new found power it has forced nations to respond even more aggresivly and co-operate with each other to encircle China.

Sooner of later CPC will have to come around to respecting India as a formidable force and will be forced to pay heed to our "core concerns" as they will realize that making enemies here can be a serious dent in their global power ambitions and having friendly relations with India has innumarable benifits.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 18 Dec 2010 16:30

Nihat wrote:Sooner of later CPC will have to come around to respecting India as a formidable force and will be forced to pay heed to our "core concerns" as they will realize that making enemies here can be a serious dent in their global power ambitions and having friendly relations with India has innumarable benifits.

The global power ambitions are with respect to India onlee.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2010 18:17

Nihat wrote:To my pleasant surprise, our China policy has been very assertive and straight forward .

Nihat, even in Nehru's time, the policy was assertive. However, it was not backed by enough muscle. This time around, it is different.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 18 Dec 2010 18:23

Basic question: Since we tried so hard to de-hyphenate ourselves from pakis, why did we accede to a hyphenation with pakis by china? If we can say no to the US, why did we allow the chinese to go through?

Sure, the stapled visa stuff is a pin-prick, but what did we really gain by making it an issue? We should have made it an issue, sure, but there are bigger issues. We send iron ore from KA, AP and elsewhere and the trade deficit wont get down with that. We allowed Huawei and ZTE into India without anything commensurate done for pharma and IT (they suffer a barrier). Indian tradesmen, esp Surat-based diamond cutters, are still languishing in chinese jails. Sure, we did nt utter the one china rubbish this time, but who the fck cares? Does the world stop revolving? Is J&K (the part that we control) or Ar. Pr. a little less a part of India because some morons say no, it aint? Same thing for what google says this or that. These things cloud our big picture, they matter only as much as they are sticks. In our h&d show, we seem to be missing the BIG picture. That is what diplomats think too. Fact is, even if we said China should be in 100 pieces, unless we do something about it, it matters diddly squat. The bottomline is we take great pride in pin-pricking china, while we can easily cause more damage to the panda's backside.

The barriers have to be raised, here are some bullet points. 1) Not just Tibet and Taiwan, even Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia have to be questioned -- repeatedly, shamelessly, undefyingly, endlessly, without any acquiescement. To argue better, one has to read more and understand how china conquered these territories. In short, this is a task that need nt wait GoI's orders. Such propaganda campaigns start small and then tip over, brf is a good enough place to start. There is no point raising them alone, something tangible has to be done to vivisect these parts of what is now PRC from PRC. That is GoI's part. We have 10 trucks full of hi-fi arms shipped from Yunnan through BD for ULFA and that gets caught blatantly, yet not many in India follow this case with as much diligence as we did for the Purulia arms drop for the maoists. Muivah and Barua have been flirting with officials in china, every td&h gets second-hand arms imported from china, so why not. NSCN(K) extends its territory across the burma terrain, we can try a truce to needle china at the NSCN(K) demand, I would nt be too thoughtless if I suggested that. What a way to needle NSCN(IM) and china in one stone?

2) We have to pick sides in our neighbors, and make no bones about that. As of now, we are too defensive picking the side of Sh. Hasina or MK Nepal. BKZ regularly meets the chini delegation at Gulshan, Prachanda makes regular trips to HK in the guise of meeting Nepali expats, Rajapakse comes here, calls us relative and goes home and does his own crap. We gotta pick sides and subvert the political process to ensure that our side gets elected/rules in our extended neighborhood. Fck the free world, fck ethics and fck democrazy, esp if it is not meant for our country. These kindsa bullshit statements about democrazy are taunts/sticks meant to be used as propaganda and nothing else. We gotta define our neighborhood where everything under the sun shall pass. The US does that, the chinis of late have been doing this. If we want to challenge the US, well we should learn to fck em where we can. We gotta pick sides, stick with them, grease them through the internal process if need be, and make big bones about peace with the other side if it has to happen. Elevate the highway to our neighborhood to hell and back.

3) relations with Viet Nam have to be upped but we have to realize that we are on our own (Singapore and Taiwan if one dices and slices at the end of the day are too sinic for comfort, South Korea and Japan are too americanized, Phillipines and SK are also EJized, Phillipines is also hand in glove with the leftist cabal and is scared shit of china as seen from the Nobel absconding, Russia and Japan have no demographics to wage a war in the future and will run around like a headless chicken sooner than later even with the tech superiority, Malaysia and Indonesia are too Islamized, Thailand, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia, Laos and Cambodia may have irritants with chinese population in their midst, but they are not going to pick India over china if it comes to a this side vs that side, the best we can expect from most of these countries is an ambiguous relative prosperity-based detente of some sorts, so that leaves essentially the Viet Namese who despite being sinicized hate the sinics more than us. Even with Viet Nam, we dont have much of a hold beyond a point, so bottomline is we are on our own. This is something that needs to be nailed in. We have always been on our own, I dont see why this is an issue.),

4) dumping duties on chinese exports need to be levied, 5) export of raw materials from India need to be dissuaded (cotton, iron ore, other ores, etc.), for that one has to break down the cabal that runs the mining mafia in both the Red Corridor and in KA. A diversion here. It is easy to call the maoists oiseaules and ignore the big picture in what is now the LWE states/the Red Corridor. People do not flock to the maoists unless there is something fundamentally wrong in the base. It is time that we realize that the states where LWE has taken roots is also the territory that is exploited to the hilt by neo-zamindars, neo-industrialists, and milked to the core by propagandists in the form of the maoist Politburo who promise the Himalayas in lieu of support from the tribals. We have to exterminate the maoist leadership, but not every Diggy Raja suggesting that there is more to the picture than just terrorism is 100% wrong. There is a reason why Arundhati Roy or Medha Patkar or Binayak Sen has a flocking in such areas. Bottomline is shit would nt smell, unless if it is out of the body. Cutting across party-lines, we have anti-nationalists who would ship our valuable ores and exploit our own peoples, if that makes them a small profit. This has been going on from even before independence. There is no INC, BJP, BSP, SP, here. Almost every party is corrupt to the core. It is one thing to understand the reasons behind a problem, it is another to find a solution. We find it too easy to blame the commies (whether of the maoist proclivity or the marxist or the marxist-leninist or the trotskyist or this or that) for everything they do, unfortunately they were the only ones fighting on behalf of the people to ceil land-holdings right after independence. That is why, despite CPM becoming the "de facto" political communist party in India, CPI still holds a 2+% vote share in Orissa. Same goes for Telengana, the party that was fighting to join the Nizam's Territory with India was CPI. (The belief was that such a Union would lead to ceiling land-holdings as Nehru had promised.) People care about who fight for them, whether they are communists or others dont matter. The communists won a democratically-based elections in 56, before any other country could see such a thing. It takes an Indian polity to morph a revolutionary zeal to an electoral breakthrough. We have a "Red Menace" thread, but we dont have enough people who understand/try to understand what communism has been as seen from the Indian context. They can be idiots, useful as well as useless, we have to see the big picture before starting to form concrete opinions.

6) a clear red-line on to nuclear confrontation/first-strike needs to be established. My red-line would be any significant diversion of downstream river water from the Tibetan basin to Yunnan and beyond.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 18 Dec 2010 19:22

Stan_Savljevic ji,
Hats off to you, sir!

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 19 Dec 2010 10:00

The mystery of missing thousand miles in J&K

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/the-m ... &k/726600/

As questions of territorial sovereignty return to the centrestage in Sino-Indian relations, Beijing has added a new twist to the long-running boundary dispute between the two countries by knocking off nearly 1,600 km from its definition of China’s border with India.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 20 Dec 2010 10:32

Show China’s areas as someone else’s: Yashwant

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Show- ... ant/726956

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 20 Dec 2010 10:38

China is the Labor Union

Yes that must be it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/de ... bour-claim

There is much that is sick in Chinese society.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 20 Dec 2010 17:30

China helped create political instability in Pacific islands: Wikileaks
http://www.sify.com/news/china-helped-c ... abbhf.html

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 20 Dec 2010 20:54

SSji,

Great post! I hope BRF becomes the torch bearer to Indian national interests by starting those discussions you have identified. Like Ramanaji and others say, we need to summarize our findings periodically so media and other think tanks take those ideas and extrapolate.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 21 Dec 2010 05:28

CRM claims that: http://claws.in/index.php?action=master ... 2&u_id=143

China apparently no longer treats the line of nearly 1,600 km separating Jammu and Kashmir on the one hand and Xinjiang and Tibet on the other as a border with India. China’s recasting of the length of the border with India appears to be part of the Kashmir puzzle that Beijing has unveiled in recent years. The other pieces include the recent policy of issuing stapled visas to Indian citizens from J&K, the reluctance to host a visit by the Northern Commander of the Indian Army Lt. Gen. B.S. Jaswal, the dramatic expansion of the Chinese activity in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir that includes the modernisation of the Karakoram Highway and the plans to construct a new rail line and oil pipeline between Kashgar in Xinjiang and the Gwadar port on Pakistan’s Makran coast.

Meanwhile, http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article965963.ece

The troops of India and Mongolia engaged in joint exercises, with the latest two-week drill in counter-insurgency ending in Belgaum on Sunday. Nearly 30 officers and personnel of the Mongolian armed forces participated in the workout called “Nomadic Elephant” along with 50 officers and personnel of the Indian Army in counter-terrorism environment.

sum · Post by **sum** » 21 Dec 2010 08:57

MKB seems to be in depression for missing the China friendship prize given by "Grandpa Wen" :

Discordant notes

The post-mortem of the visit of China’s ‘Grandpa Premier’ Wen Jiabao has begun. Our mainstream-opinion makers wear a smirk on their face — ‘Delhi gave it to Beijing’. A former head of R&AW told the western media this was ‘welcome and necessary,’ and he hoped for more of it.

Curiously, the government seems to do fire-fighting — Wen’s visit needs to be assessed in the long-term as ‘part of a process, a continuum,’ etc — and demonstratively dissociating from the ‘raucous’ media debate, stressing the patently obvious that it was ‘unrealistic’ to expect solutions to all problems during a state visit. At the same time, government briefings assert that there were ‘open and frank’ discussions and our ‘deep concerns’ over ‘stapled visa’, terrorism and Kashmir ‘registered’ on the Chinese side ‘very clearly.’ While the government attempted to calm the ‘hype’ in the public debate, it also underlined its capacity to be ‘firm’ with China.

But how did the ‘hype’ happen? The government blames our ‘vibrant’ democracy but, regrettably, sections within the Indian establishment have not helped matters, and often inspired the media campaigns. The Chinese embassy would have discerned what was happening. All it entails is for the Chinese press counsellor to exchange notes with his terribly well-informed Pakistani counterpart in Chanakyapuri to comprehend which reporter or TV anchorperson in Delhi at what point eats out of whose hands in South Block.

Thus, Chinese ambassador Zhang Yan was spot-on by alerting the elites in Delhi on the eve of Wen’s arrival that the relationship is ‘fragile’ and care must be taken not to undermine it. The Sino-Indian relationship is fated to be arguably the most crucial vector of India’s foreign policy through this century and it does deserve mature and rational handling.

There is an extremely painful slice of collective consciousness in our country over the alchemy of Sino-Indian ties, compounded in no small measure by our strategic community’s hopelessly stereotyped notions regarding the world order and their sheer lack of intellectual grasp of what happens ‘when a billion Chinese jump’ — to borrow the title of Jonathan Watt’s fascinating new book.

Wen’s visit took place against the backdrop of signs of Indian diplomacy shifting gear. A certain ‘muscularity’ has appeared reminiscent of the halcyon days circa the mid-2010s when South Block signed on to the ill-fated US-led quadripartite Asian alliance against China and Indian diplomats, casting themselves in a Wilsonian mould, blithely offered in public view to teach Beijing a hard thing or two about the ways of the democratic world.

The ‘hardliners’ in our strategic community are enthralled that that ‘robustness’ has reappeared. A few discordant notes in the run-up to Wen’s visit need to be singled out. First, Delhi conveyed a startling signal at the RIC (Russia-India-China) foreign ministers’ meet in Wuhan last month regarding the Asia-Pacific, shedding its ambivalence on the role of Cold-War era US-led military bloc in any ‘inclusive’ regional security architecture. Even our ‘time-tested’ Russian friends were taken aback.

Kashmir issue

Besides, on the sidelines of the RIC meet, S M Krishna also told his Chinese counterpart Yang Jiechi that India’s concerns over Kashmir are similar to China’s over Taiwan and Tibet — and we then publicised this highly sensitive demarche as the stuff of grandstanding. Thus, when our draft joint communiqué on Wen’s visit was proposed to the Chinese side and it didn’t contain the usual reaffirmation of our consistent stance on ‘One China’ policy, Beijing drew the appropriate conclusion and didn’t argue. But they wouldn’t have failed to estimate, too, that Delhi was holding a worthless card, after all. Time will tell.

How much deep thinking went into our adventurous enterprise remains unclear, but a salient has appeared in the Sino-Indian discourse linking Kashmir with the Chinese ‘core interests’ over Tibet and Taiwan — something we avoided for five decades.

How we pursue this track will have wide-ranging implications for regional security.
Again, it is an insult to commonsense to be told Karan Singh who heads the foreign policy cell of the ruling party turned down on his own Beijing’s offer to confer its newly-constituted ‘friendship award.’ Plainly put, we snubbed Beijing’s overture.

Finally, Delhi ignored repeated Chinese demarches over the Nobel ceremony in Oslo and kept pretending it was agonising over a decision even after the decision was made.

And all this took place within the space of some three weeks. An uncharacteristic churlishness crept into Indian diplomacy on the eve of a crucial event involving a powerful statesman in the hierarchy in Beijing, despite our abundant crop of China experts.

But why blame experts? Weren’t Karan Singh and Oslo decisions to be ultimately attributed to the highest level of our leadership? Therefore, all those ‘developments of much consequence’ during Wen’s visit — Strategic Economic Dialogue, trade target, political exchanges, green energy, CBSE curriculum, banking facilities — which indeed add up to a critical mass to give renewed thrust to the relationship, nonetheless got overshadowed.

Our Sisyphean syndrome betrays lack of clarity over the meaning of China’s rise. Future convergence is best sought by concentrating on common ground. We can manage our own neighbourhood better if we do not accentuate our differences with China. India’s role as ‘counterweight’ to China is gradually diminishing. We need to be pragmatic that ultimately the two countries will be the driving force for revitalising the world economy.

Scary that such openly pro-Chinese were our diplomats!!

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 21 Dec 2010 09:17

sum wrote:MKB seems to be in depression for missing the China friendship prize given by "Grandpa Wen" :

Takes two hands to clap. Nobody forced China to supply Paks with nukes, and support JuD in the UN, while India was kowtowing to the Chinese.

But I think it is pointless to beat the Tibet or Taiwan drum. Far better to put a "terrorism duty" on exports of raw materials and imports of finished goods in strategic sectors, and in sectors competing with Indian industry.

There could be a law mandating such penalties on (a) Nations hosting or aiding terrorist groups (b) Nations involved in any kind of military or nuclear trade with nations in clause (a).

Provided that the Parliament may give, an exemption (which will have to be renewed every year) to nations or companies or individuals, if it is in national interest.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Dec 2010 09:57

Sino-India Border Row: China's bid to boost Pak 'presence' in J&K - B.Raman

India has always been estimating the approximate length of the Sino-Indian border as about 3,500 kms in all the three sectors -- eastern, middle and western -- taken together.

While it is about 2000 kms in the eastern and the middle sectors taken together, it is another about 1500 kms long in the western sector in Jammu and Kashmir.

China, which had never openly questioned the Indian estimate of the length of the common border before, is now unilaterally seeking to exclude from consideration during the border talks the dispute between India and China over the Chinese occupation of a large territory in the Ladakh sector of J&K.

In fact, it is seeking to question India's locus standi to discuss with China the border in the J&K area in view of Pakistan's claims to this area. It is trying to bring in Pakistan as an interested party in so far as the border talks regarding the western sector are concerned.

It wants to change the format of the border talks in order to keep it confined bilaterally to the eastern and middle sectors and expand it to a trilateral issue involving India, China and Pakistan in the western sector.

While the Chinese are perfectly capable of doing this all by themselves, I suspect the US instigation as well in this. Not having been quite successful in making India talk to Pakistan and resolve the J&K issue which it believes would automatically ease the Afghanistan problem, it is probably instigating PRC now using the already existing border row as a ruse.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 21 Dec 2010 10:09

Stan Mahodaya, hats off. Exceptional post (amongst your many others) May we see this happen soon.

Kamboja · Post by **Kamboja** » 21 Dec 2010 10:19

Stan_Savljevic wrote:Not just Tibet and Taiwan, even Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia have to be questioned -- repeatedly, shamelessly, undefyingly, endlessly, without any acquiescement.

SS-ji,

Why such a hostile attitude? We must sympathize with our Chinese neighbors and, in a spirit of good-neighborliness we must offer our offices as neutral arbiters in the ongoing disputes between the Chinese, the Uyghurs, the Tibetans, the Taiwanese, the Mongols, and Falun Gong

We must emphasize that we respect all of these parties as sovereign nations and hope that their national leaders will sit down as equals and treat with each other in a civilized fashion. We should be more than happy to host these chai-biskoot sessions.

JMT

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 21 Dec 2010 10:53

‘24 new Chinese projects on Brahmaputra’ http://www.zeenews.com/news675825.html

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Dec 2010 10:54

^ Another report

Days after Wen visit, India notices 24 new projects on Brahmaputra

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Days- ... tra/727330

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 21 Dec 2010 10:59

Media reports today that a top Chinese general just two days before Wen's visit wanted China to be more agressive and "recapture Chinese territory held by neighbours",is truly indicative of the actual Chinese mindset.That this was not picked up before Wen's visit is probably due to our poor capability of picking up Chinese signals.

The Chinese gameplan is of the utmost danger to India.We should trust China not even 1% of our trust in Pakistan.At least with the Pakis,we know the animosity of their military and ISI,but wiht the Chinese,their professions of friendship have to be taken with the deepest of suspicion.As oen analysts put it,China does NOT want a genuine peace with India,but wants to prolong indefinitely any settlement of the border issue,instead make India its largest market for goods,as sales fall in the rest of the world,1 billion+ Indians addicted to cheap,shoddy Chinese products will keep China rich,India to be kept poorer and weaker both economically and militarily.

The news rep0ort about Indo-Russian relations to be given "prioroty status" with some defence deals being kept secret for now due to their sensitivity indicates that perhaps the Russians have also realised the ambitions of the Chinese,far beyond their borders.The recommendations/suggestions made not too long ago by Russian def. analysts,to provide India with even more top line hardware to counter China is worth taking another look,as it might give some insight into the future capability of the IN and IAF in particular.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Dec 2010 11:08

China must recover territory ‘looted' by neighbours, said PLA General

http://www.hindu.com/2010/12/21/stories ... 601700.htm

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Dec 2010 11:22

A new great game, but this time the rulebook is in Chinese

http://rothkopf.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... in_chinese

One such area where the Chinese have manifested this irresponsibility in the past has been in the transfer of missile and other technologies to the Pakistanis.

...

Over the weekend, China's Prime Minister Wen Jiabao, visited Pakistan. During the trip he announced a $35 billion package of deals as part of what the Financial Times calls "a plan to commercially integrate the nation with China's western region." Well, even in the China-lovin' corners of my mercantilist heart that sets off alarm bells. As noted in a companion piece to the story in the FT, "When China's prime minister opened the gleaming white latticed China-Pakistan friendship center in Islamabad at the weekend, the gesture of friendship might easily have been mistaken for naked ambition." (That's British for saying it was definitely naked ambition.)

The FT analysis piece notes that this time around however, not only has China built ties with Pakistan but it has recently done a $16 billion package with India. And that these packages are part of a global program of largesse that can only be seen as a global diplomatic "friendship" grab that not too long ago also included a $20 billion package of deals with France and may soon include the purchase of Portuguese bonds as part of an effort to help prop up that Iberian economic sick man. No doubt, there will be deals announced when China's president visit the United States too next month ... but that should be no cause for relaxation.

China is using its new economic heft and resources in a calculated global effort to remake its relationships worldwide and thus, by extension if not by explicit plan, to remake the power structure of the world. On the commercial and investment side alone, China is doing this in several ways:

Commercial Diplomacy: It's signing deals both because it's good business but also because it is a way to gain leverage politically worldwide. We do it. Everyone does. But no one is doing it more aggressively or effectively than the Chinese right now. In part, it should be noted, this is because they are making very few political demands in return on the front end. It's more in the vein of that classic diplomatic approach which goes something like: "Someday, and that day may never come, I'll call upon you to do a service for me. But until that day -- accept this ~~justice~~ package of deals as a gift on ~~my daughter's wedding day~~ on the occasion of this meeting between the leaders of our two countries."

Resource Grabs: Same general approach as above but with the added objective of tying up precious, scarce resources worldwide and thus gaining both secure supplies and a strategic advantage. See the Wikileaks entry on how the Chinese are using investments in Africa to buy influence. They're doing in Latin America, the Middle East, Central Asia and elsewhere as well.

Competition Policies: China is intent on tipping the global economic playing field in the direction of Chinese companies as aggressively as possible. They do so through subsidies channeled through state entities that own or control major companies, they do it through promoting policies that give Chinese companies a special edge in getting deals in China, they do it through demanding tech transfer and/or not enforcing intellectual property laws. It's not that they are "new" to the world economy or because they are a "developing" country. It's because they do whatever they can to gain advantage. This is only going to get worse before it gets better. If most of the major infrastructure investments in the world in the next 20 years will be made in Asia and most of those in China and the Chinese give Chinese companies a special shot at the roads, factories, powerplants, grids, airports, etc., then in 20 years who do you think will be the world's leading suppliers in these areas? That's the plan and if I were GE or Siemens, I would be darned uncomfortable. (And in fact, look at the recent statements of their CEOs and you will see that they are.)

China, like all countries, is self-interested. The difference is that they have no philosophical inhibitions about pursuing that self-interest aggressively, there is no lingering sense that "laissez faire" is a virtue. What's more, while these policies may be seen as disconnected and distant from one another, of course they are not. China is pursuing the shortest path to the most economic power they can muster. It is not that they have imperial ambitions. They don't. They simply want to assure their own security and the stability of their nation and if that means cornering the market on key resources and creating counter-balances to the power of rivals, they will do it.

They are doing it. And right now, what we're doing, mostly, is watching and wondering what it is we are seeing. Hint: In the case of Pakistan, which is important on its own and instructive in terms of its implications, it's a new great game and this time a substantial portion of the rulebook is being written in Chinese.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Dec 2010 07:26

China Pakistan relationship:

http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2010 ... -deal.html

The terrain of the Pamir Mountains here is shale, and is extraordinarily difficult to secure for permanent roads. China employs full-time work crews permanently mending the Karokoram Highway, which currently closes in winter due to heavy snow and ice falls. The route can be highly dangerous. Nevertheless, opening up and developing this will have significant impacts on the economies of both Kashgar and Gilgit, and may lead to a more peaceful trading environment than that currently available on the Pakistan side. Mortars, Kalashnikov rifles, grenades and rocket launchers are available for sale in Gilgit; that type of trade will need to move on in this spectacular, still dangerous, but strategically important part of Asia if these ancient trade routes can be redeveloped.

***

China Pakhanastan trade

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Dec 2010 07:28

Chinaman praises his favorite prostitute in her bedroom
http://www.eurasiareview.com/analysis/w ... -21122010/

In his address, Wen underlined the importance of China’s relations with Pakistan in the context of China’s policies in the region. He said inter alia: “To cement and advance the all-weather strategic partnership of cooperation between China and Pakistan is our common strategic choice. It serves the fundamental interests of both countries and peoples and contributes to peace, stability and development of the region and beyond. The two neighboring countries are brothers for ever. China-Pakistan friendship is full of vigor and vitality, like a lush tree with deep roots and thick foliage. China-Pakistan relationship is strong and solid, like a rock standing firm despite the passage of time. Pakistan has sacrificed greatly and made great efforts in the fight against terrorism. It is a reality … and the international community should respect Pakistan’s efforts.” Recalling Pakistan’s consistent and full support to China in the past at some crucial junctures and on various issues, including issues concerning Taiwan, Tibet and Xinjiang, Wen said that China received valuable help from Pakistan.

***

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Dec 2010 07:30

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2010_pg3_1

The fundamentalist separatist movement in Xinjiang reportedly has its support base in Pakistan. Instead of reciprocating China’s abiding friendship, we are being naïve in turning a blind eye to this jihadi enterprise. Although Pakistan has assured China of its support in dismantling the terrorist network on a number of occasions, our ‘promise’ has not actually materialised into anything substantive.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Dec 2010 07:34

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 100965.cms

BEIJING: Ahead of premier Wen Jiabao's visit to India and Pakistan, the Chinese government has signaled its desire to expand China-Pakistan trade as part of a plan to bring peace to its restive Xinjiang region. It has launched the first-ever air cargo service between the troubled city of Kashgar in Xinjiang and Islamabad.

The move which took place last week, is significant because China wants to make the historical city of Kashgar, located near the borders of Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan and India, as an international air logistics base.

It will also solve the problem of trade flows shrinking during winter months when China-Pakistan road link is blocked by snow. At the political level, the Communist leaders want trade inflows from Pakistan to help stabilize the Xinjiang province, where Muslim Uighurs are involved in a separatist movement.Aha! Jeevay Pakhanastan

Read more: China signals rising interest in Pak ahead of Wen's visit - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... z18nuCkxsm