Welcome Back Pakistan: Blast in Varanasi at ghat near temple

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Dec 2010 21:38

Well, then the Mumbai police are being semi-truthful since they only blame the UP govt. I assumed that the centre was behind them and helping in hunting the $#%^@ and hence, the doubt on whetehr a state govt can hold off central agencies for months.

But, as soon as you mentioned the 2G area, its becomes a distinct possibility!!
Damn you, GoI and your cheap votebank politics.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Dec 2010 21:48

The real problem is the Center. Its clear that terrorism is a cross State problem and needs a Central force to deal with it. However by not making the relevant Constitutional changes, but ready to make frivolous changes, the Center is ensuring that India remains unsecure and who knows what vote banks are being appeased by this move. After 26/11 the NIA should have power to arrest across the country. Yet PC makes sure it doesn't have that power.

Anyway lets stick to the topic of Varanasi blast.

negi · Post by **negi** » 13 Dec 2010 21:51

Ramana ji don't know if this is the right question to ask, but do we have any ex-IPS/IAS types posting/reading BRF wanted to know what their perspective is on law and order and 'apparent' relegation of IPS as a mere political tool.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Dec 2010 22:09

Again can't emphasize the need to get the data:

Mole with ISI links busted

...
More so, some of his phone calls were traced to Pakistan after the Intelligence Bureau suspected that he was passing on important messages to ISI and kept his phone on surveillance.

One of his phone calls was traced to an undisclosed location in Karachi, and Indian intelligence officials heard him disclosing information about the Varanasi blast on Tuesday.

Following that, a team of crime branch officers then closed in on Mozawalla at his flat in Infinity Towers on Byculla's Love Lane around 11 pm on Thursday.

Several incriminating documents, mobile phones and SIM cards were seized during the raids that lasted until the wee hours of Friday morning. The mobiles have been sent for forensic examination.

Mozawalla has been booked under the provisions of the Official Secret Acts. He has also been booked for conspiring against the country.

Though a case was registered at Byculla police station four days back, the Criminal Intelligence Unit of the Crime Branch took over the case on Thursday evening.

Joint Commissioner of Police (Crime) Himanshu Roy said he could not share details of the ongoing investigating for security reasons.

A team of National Investigation Agency (NIA) officers has joined hands with Mumbai's Crime Branch to hunt for Mozawalla's associates.

More members of the spy ring are expected to be arrested over the coming days, sources informed.

Intelligence sources informed that Mozawalla, like his predecessor David Headley, was assigned the task of carrying out a recce of the city.

Based on his inputs, several sleeper cells would be ordered to carry out blasts across the country.

Police are checking Mozawalla's travel documents to find out whether he visited Pakistan or other terror related countries.

A MiD DAY team, while running a background check on Mozawalla, found that he had made false claims of being attached to the Haj House near Crawford Market. Investigators are verifying the claim.

A trained spy?
Mozawalla had moved into his Infinity Towers apartment in Byculla (East) two years ago. A predominantly Muslim neighbourhood tucked between Byculla and Mazgaon, he never let anyone get a whiff of what he was up to, intelligence sources said. After the news of his arrest spread in the enclave, his neoghbours were shocked, they said. Sources say that this is the hallmark of a trained spy.

(Inputs by Sayed Roshan)

Looks like only UP and Mumbai papers are pursuing the matter as local stories. Where is the Center in all this? Fiddling while India burns?

-Negi, Don't know and don't mind. We get the ex-IPS prespective from B Raman and thats quite confusing not to mention biased.

BTW it was on BRF that the possibility of non-traditional maal was first raised.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Dec 2010 23:13

From Pioneer, Local pages:

NATION | Monday, December 13, 2010 |

ATS’ success in blast cases short-circuitedDecember 13, 2010 11:36:50 PM

Preetam Srivastava | Lucknow

Set up with the objective of busting modules and thwarting terror strikes, the much-hyped Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) seems to lack either the expertise to ascertain the nature of explosive and circuits of bombs in previous blasts or the will to reach a logical conclusion in the corresponding investigations.

In almost all cases in Uttar Pradesh, even those which were reportedly ‘worked out’ by making arrests, the circuit of devices has always remained a mystery.

In the Sheetal Ghat blast at Varanasi too, the million-dollar questions staring the face of the ATS team are on the technique used and the nature of explosives used by militants to trigger the blast.

Be it the Dashaswamedh Ghat blast in 2005, the one on the eve of Independence Day at Lucknow in 2000 or at Sheetla Ghat of Varanasi last Tuesday, the investigating ATS team never succeeded in exposing the nature of the circuit in the device. Despite claiming to bust the case and making arrests, sleuths could only disclose the conspirator and the executor but remained evasive on the architect of the bomb.

While the Dashaswamedh Ghat blast was initially passed on as a minor incident, the sleuths managed to net almost all militants involved in the serial blasts at Sankat Mochan and Cantonment Railway Station on March 7, 2007. However, there too, they were quiet on the technique used to detonate the device.

Similarly, in the blasts at Gorakhpur (May 22, 2007) and serial blasts at Lucknow, Varanasi, Faizabad courts (November 23, 2007), the ATS team while disclosing the carrier of the bomb and mastermind of the plan failed to explain as to who manufacture the deadly device. Besides, a blast which rocked a mosque in Jaunpur two years back, in which a timer was used to detonate the explosive remains to be worked yet.

In the attack on UP Cabinet Minister Nand Kumar ‘Nandi’ at Allahabad recently, the blast was triggered by the latest technique of a remote. The ATS claimed to have worked out the case by making several arrests but kept mum on the creator of the sinister device.

In Muzaffarnagar too, hardened criminal used a bomb with a novel circuit to trigger a blast during the recent Panchayat elections in Muzaffarnagar. While the culprits were netted, no one took the pains to find out about where the circuit was procured or who set it up.

So maybe they are under orders not to reveal what they know? could be to prevent the opponents from figuring out their knowledge?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 14 Dec 2010 00:49

But if the "perpetrators" have been netted, the original producers will immediately have to assume that the secrets of the circuits and other details as to source will have been revealed to the investigators. So nothing gained unless they are naively trying to make the sources believe that the captured guys have not squealed.

This will not be how the sources will think. So if the investigators have not revealed anything that exposes the sources, it is because that such info has been declared to be sensitive - especially for politics.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Dec 2010 01:19

Maybe they don't want to reveal what they know and how the rats were trapped.

Another aspect is all links point to TSP then the question arises what are you doing about it?

BTW have you pondered on the implications of ombaba saying India has to be global power worthy of the UNSC seat. If it keep staking shocks/bleeding cuts from TSP's RATS how does that reconcile/jive with that image? Might have to do something about it like what was done to Milady.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 14 Dec 2010 02:15

Well, someone should have shot back at ombaba, that US too should be game if in the process of showing that worthiness, some of US assets may have to take a whacking. But I think, it is about language of communication. When you are facing a bully in the street - you don't use classic passages from Sanskrit plays. The language has to sink to the level where it will be understood by the bully.

Indian foreign policy somehow does not use the nuanced and appropriate language where it will be understood. In the context of terror and Pak it means "talking the language", which is paying back in kind and in good measure. We cannot wait for good neighbours or relatives to intervene while the bully is playing havoc with my family. The thing is, India at some point has to say to the US, "we are moving in anyway, do you wanna come join us or shall we find you on the other side? But then heaven forbid that we find you or yours on the other side."

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Dec 2010 02:37

Its not about the messenger but the message.

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 14 Dec 2010 02:40

[quote="ramana"]Again can't emphasize the need to get the data:

Mole with ISI links busted

[quote]

This is a dumb thing to do , would have reavled the entire plot ,

1. The mumbai police guy gave a press conference stating ISI's involvement
2. This paper reveals names and Karachi's telephonic identify.
3. Evenry body knows that with this the entire plot is out. every guy in this ring would have escaped by now.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 14 Dec 2010 03:19

ramana wrote:Its not about the messenger but the message.

I am suggesting doing whatever is necessary, quietly, without waiting for approval. He might have been saying it as an "invitation" to act, or he was saying it over and above groups within his setup who want otherwise, or as a warning and a challenge. The response should have been instantaneous and brief. Pity we no longer have that kind of impromptu capabilities at that level.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Dec 2010 23:33

Ashok Malik Op-Ed iN HT

Modi operandi
Ashok Malik, Hindustan Times
Email Author
December 14, 2010

Better intelligence and a purposeful Union home minister have contributed to India escaping a major terrorist assault since the horror of 26/11. Nevertheless, as the bombing of the Sheetla Ghat in Varanasi indicated, the threat is perennial. The Varanasi attack may have killed just one person — tragically, a one-year-old child — but was calculated to cause panic and trigger a stampede that may have claimed many more lives. It was a reminder that Indian Mujahideen (IM), the organisation behind the bombing, is alive and kicking.

India's astonishingly poor record in terms of terrorist convictions remains a critical gap. Between the Parliament attack on December 13, 2001 and the trial of Ajmal Kasab for Mumbai 2008, there have been zero convictions for acts of terrorism in India. This is embarrassing for a country that is among the biggest victims of Islamist terror.

In this context, the history of IM is instructive. An offshoot of the Students' Islamic Movement of India (Simi), IM first came into the public gaze in 2008, after the Ahmedabad bombings. Subsequently, the Gujarat police busted the IM network, made crucial arrests and linked key IM cells and operatives to a series of hitherto unsolved terror bombings in Delhi, Bangalore, Jaipur and other cities.

If the past two years have been relatively calm, the steps taken by the Union government after 26/11 deserve credit. Even so, the Gujarat police also merits special mention for a crippling blow to the IM matrix, one from which it's still only beginning to recover.

About 60 IM members — street troops, religious motivators, explosive technicians — were brought to trial in an Ahmedabad court. In February 2010, just as the case was gathering momentum, the accused filed a petition before the Supreme Court asking for their trial to be moved to another state, alleging they would not get justice in Gujarat. In an unorthodox decision, the apex court issued an ex parte order — without hearing the Gujarat government — and stayed the trial.

That is where the matter rests. The trial of terrorists who bombed a series of Indian cities between 2005 and 2008 is still frozen, in a legal and political limbo.

It's here that one needs to consider the congruence of political partisanship, civil society hyper-activism and terrorism. Nobody is suggesting that political parties or civil society activists are necessarily backing terror groups. Yet, by giving them ideas, by creating precedents and mechanisms for misuse, they are derailing the process of justice.

The IM accused have deftly exploited the demonisation of Narendra Modi and Gujarat in sections of the media and among so-called activists who have made an industry of Modi phobia. Despite being accused of perjury and manufacture of documents, these activists have sought to convey the impression that justice can't be done in Gujarat, that Muslims who seek fair play (or need to prove their innocence) require to have their cases moved outside the state, to have these monitored by the Supreme Court and, when all else fails, go to the United Nations (UN).

Unable to defeat Modi politically in Gujarat, the Congress has lent its shoulder to such dangerous practices. As long as they are affecting an individual politician, it is one thing. However, as is now apparent, the entire edifice of India's most robust challenge to IM has also been put at risk.

It is worth asking where this excessive and mind-numbing focus on Modi is headed. Whether one likes his politics or doesn't, believes he is India's best chief minister or isn't, considers him a future prime minister or too much of a hot potato for BJP allies, the fact remains that he needs to be viewed through a conventional political prism and not one of a fevered imagination.

Consider examples. One, it has been clear for a long time that there is no legal case against Modi for the 2002 violence and he is not guilty of acts of deliberate commission. With even the Supreme Court appointed Special Investigative Team (SIT) said to have to come to the same conclusion, Modi haters — who range from Mumbai-based celebrities to a retired police officer still settling bureaucratic scores — have begun to denounce the SIT and are approaching the UN Human Rights Commission.

Two, the WikiLeaks cables reveal that western intelligence agencies believe the Lashkar-e-Tayyeba threat to Modi is clear and present and did not die out with the elimination of Ishrat Jehan and her accomplices. Jehan, a Mumbai student who fell into Lashkar's grip, was killed in an encounter with the Gujarat police in 2004. Modi's opponents insist she was innocent and the Laskhar plot a concoction. Perhaps now they will argue Modi wrote the WikiLeaks cables.

How long can this continue? If any other Indian politician was found to be mentioned as a Lashkar target in the cables, it would have had the media engrossed. Not with Modi; it's almost as if he's fair game. As for the Union government, it wants to fight terrorists — but not terrorists whom the Gujarat police have found. It's so cynical; those 60 Indian Mujahideen men in Ahmedabad must be laughing.

Ashok Malik is a Delhi-based political commentator. The views expressed by the author are personal.

So Diggy's ravings/hallucinations of speaking to the dead are really Modi obsession!

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 14 Dec 2010 23:40

"Between the Parliament attack on December 13, 2001 and the trial of Ajmal Kasab for Mumbai 2008, there have been zero convictions for acts of terrorism in India."

I don't think this is factually correct, though you can understand the sentiment. The Bombay gateway bombing(2003) did result in a conviction, as did the American centre bombing in Kolkata and IIRC, 7 Indian and 7 Pakistani terrorists of the Lashkar Toiba were charged, if not convicted, for the Mumbai train bombing of 2006.
Incidentally, that trial had/has been given considerably lower attention in the press. Also, there were at least two terrorist attacks in Kashmir post 2001, by the Hizbul against Hindus, that led to convictions.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Dec 2010 23:57

So what was different about those cases that led to the convictions?

I submit all those guys were out and out TSP guys.

If there is local hand then INC ensures that the case becomes cold.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Dec 2010 03:37

Pioneer reports

NATION | Wednesday, December 15, 2010 |

Not much headway in Varanasi blast case

December 15, 2010 4:05:26 AM

PNS | Lucknow

Police have failed to corroborate involvement of parents of the abandoned girl at Sheetla Ghat in the Varanasi blast. They now claimed to have shown them arrested under Section 317 of IPC, for exposure and abandonment of child under 12 years, by parent or person having care of it.

The ATS team is, however, still grilling Aftab, whom the call was made to by the parents just after the blast.

Even a week after the explosion, the ATS team also failed to get a forensic report to confirm the nature of the explosive used.

“We have grilled Nilesh Pandey, aka Tuntun, but so far, nothing conclusive was found against him or his wife Geeta to establish their link to the blast,” said ADG (Crime, Law & Order) Brij Lal. He added that the duo was arrested after being found guilty of abandoning their child.

He said that both Tuntun Pandey and Geeta Pandey were making conflicting statement maintaining that they abandoned Gauri to get rid of her just due to their poverty and that they do not want girl child. However why they claimed her as dead and even made a call on mobile of Aftab in Balia informing him that “meri beti ki maut hu gai hai”, (My daughter had died) and that too just within seconds of the blast has still puzzled the ATS team and they were making an in-depth probe into it.

It may be mentioned here that the ATS team suspected that the above information given to Aftab could be code word used to confirm that the mission (explosion) was accomplished. The suspicion was also laid as investigating agencies which also included National Investigating Agency and Intelligence Bureau (IB) firmly believed that it was the job of some new module of Indian Mujahideen which triggered blast at Sheetla Ghat.

The team members already picked up Aftab and he was grilled in this regard but besides the above call nothing further evidences were found which could substantiate involvement of the duo in the blast.

Geeta was initially released on Monday evening but again on Tuesday, she was taken in custody and send to jail along with Tuntun Pandey.

When asked about the report of FSL Agra to confirm the nature of explosive used in the blast, Brij Lal said that the still not received any information. ``The experts at FSL Agra were still busy examining the samples taken from the blast site but so far they not drawn any conclusion”, disclosed Brij Lal claiming that the result is likely to come within a day or two.

Looks like they want to really verify whatever they analyzed.

Looks like it will go cold very soon:
- no progress in identifying the explosive device
- no progress in figuring out how it was planted
- no eyewitness or even conjecture as to what happened
- no progress in e-mail trail

Looks like classic spy or intel operation. Not a criminal one who leave some clue due to mistakes.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 15 Dec 2010 04:11

Or, perhaps the second part of your hypothesis : that the roots are too well known but too sensitive to acknowledge.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Dec 2010 10:57

HT reports in its Lucknow page
LINK

'Nitrate used in the Varanasi blast'
HTC, Hindustan Times
New Delhi, December 15, 2010

A week after the blast at Sheetla Ghat in Varanasi, forensic experts have established that the Indian Mujahideen (IM), the suspected perpetrator, had used a Nitrate-based Improvised Explosive Device (IED). "It's determined that Nitrate was used in the blast in Varanasi. But Nitrate has commercial usage, it is yet to be ascertained from where they got it," said a senior counter-terror officer under condition of anonymity. The nature of the explosive device used in the terror attack has baffled investigators, as they could not recover, from the blast site, the essential components of a typical IED: a detonator, circuit and timer.

The September 19 attack and the Varanasi blast indicate a change in tactic of the IM that instead of focusing on killing maximum people, the priority, was to deliver its message, said the investigator.

Then how do they account for the stone shattering? And what about the second IED reported to be found in dustbin? How come no one follows up the story?

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 15 Dec 2010 12:41

ramana wrote:I submit all those guys were out and out TSP guys.

If there is local hand then INC ensures that the case becomes cold.

I think it is worse than that, in that the cold cases may in fact be operations by INC factions. The initial reports about INC workers being involved in the Godhra train burning have been at the back of my mind, and the HT oped about all that has followed made it all come together.

amit · Post by **amit** » 15 Dec 2010 12:58

vera_k wrote:
ramana wrote:I submit all those guys were out and out TSP guys.

If there is local hand then INC ensures that the case becomes cold.
I think it is worse than that, in that the cold cases may in fact be operations by INC factions. The initial reports about INC workers being involved in the Godhra train burning have been at the back of my mind, and the HT oped about all that has followed made it all come together.

I think we're well on our way to do (inadvertently perhaps) our own version of Digvijay.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 15 Dec 2010 13:01

Yeah well, he ain't got a monopoly on conspiracy theories

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 15 Dec 2010 13:53

vera_k wrote:Yeah well, he ain't got a monopoly on conspiracy theories

Surely you mean some chankian theories which get published here ( by Radia Nira Internet (RNI) paid-for warriors ?!

) blurring the difference between forum posts and a ndtv/HT advertorial written by veer bahadurs !

IM used fake date on email after Varanasi blast

http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/2/2 ... blast.html

List of IM absconders from across the country

http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/dec/15 ... arh-UP.htm

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Dec 2010 16:42

This post was self halaled as it was a case of open mouth and insert foot

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 15 Dec 2010 17:06

Pratyush wrote:Haven't read the article as the link is haram in my office.

The link is haalal at my work place. The report says that a husband and wife duo (Gita and Nilesh Pandey) who had abandaned their second daughter have been sent to judicial custody for the charges of "various sections of IPC and Protection of Child Rights Act for torturing a minor and abandoning their daughter in an infectious environment". Could not find any thing about the progress of the case.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 15 Dec 2010 19:04

vera_k wrote:
ramana wrote:I submit all those guys were out and out TSP guys.

If there is local hand then INC ensures that the case becomes cold.
I think it is worse than that, in that the cold cases may in fact be operations by INC factions. The initial reports about INC workers being involved in the Godhra train burning have been at the back of my mind, and the HT oped about all that has followed made it all come together.

Recall the Maoist king-pin arrested in Silvassa who was freed by a Congress mob led by Sonia loyalist Mohan Delkar (http://216.14.115.66/viewtopic.php?p=85 ... 0d#p859746).

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Dec 2010 22:06

Pioneer reports:

LUCKNOW | Thursday, December 16, 2010 | Email | Print | | Back

FSL confirms use of RDX in Varanasi blastDecember 16, 2010 1:30:32 AM

Preetam Srivastava | Lucknow

Experts at Forensic Science Laboratory in Agra have confirmed that ultras mixed RDX with a low intensity explosive to trigger the blast at Sheetla Ghat at Varanasi on December 7. Their common refrain was that the bomb was kept in a plastic container, probably a canister ususally used to carry sacred 'Gangajal', to escape suspicion.

Interestingly, the police brass remained non-committal on the FSL report and the investigation. ADG (Crime, Law & Order) Brij Lal told media persons in Lucknow on Wednesday evening : "No, we still have not received any official report from FSL Agra. As and when the ATS makes a breakthrough, you will be informed."

Sources in the police claimed that samples collected by experts from FSL, Agra and Intelligence Bureau (IB) sleuths have confirmed that RDX was mixed with some low quality explosiveto set off the blast.

As for the predominance of plastic particles and shreds found from the site, the source said that it undoubtedly pointed towards the fact that the explsoive was kept in a plastic container. On how the blast was triggered and absence of any remains of the detonator, experts felt that it was probably hurled away into the Ganga waters following the impact.

The technique used to set off blasts in trains in 1993 is also not being discounted. In this a small plastic bottle filled with acid was kept inside the RDX. As acid corroded the bottle wall and came in contact with RDX, the chemical reaction triggered the explosion.

The method was used by militatnts of 'Tanjeem Islamul Muslamin (TIM)' - a small terror module which sprung up in 1993 to avenge the demolition of the disputed shrine in Ayodhya.

The ATS team hence quizzed one of TIM's member Hamidudin aka Saleem of Pul Gulam Hussain in Nakkhas (Lucknow) to confirm the process of detonation without the use of a circuit or detonator.

Saleem, who was held by the STF in January, had earlier disclosed about the entire module and their sinister plan and identified his cohorts as Irfan of Bahraich, Dr Jamal Alvi and Syed Abdul Kareem aka Hakimji of Pilkhuwa in Ghaziabad, Mohamed Tuffail of Hardoi, Kari of Basti, Mohamed Asfaq Khan of Talkatora (Lucknow), Dr Habib Khan of Rai Bareli. While the plan was hatched by Dr Jalis Ansari of Mumbai, Dr Jamal Alvi was the operational in-charge.

But what transpired between the STF sleuths and the Saleem about the process of detonation and the intensity of explosion was not exactly known.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Dec 2010 00:44

Maybe the ATS etc should use this from DRDO:

Craig Alpert wrote:US firm to ink ToT pact for Explosive Detection Kit, says DRDO
a snippet...
The EDK, developed by the DRDO’s High Energy Materials Research Laboratory (HEMRL) in Pune, comes packed in a box the size of a vanity case which contains four reagents capable of detecting explosives even in trace quantities. It can be used to identify a range of explosives such as PETN, Black Powder, Dynamite, NC, NG, CE, Inorganic Mitrates, TNT, RDX and HMX based plastic explosives. The EDK kit can be easily carried to the spot and is found useful both before and after the blast. When the explosive substance is mixed with the different chemical reagents given in the kit, the drop turns into specific colour as given out in the instruction leaflet. Verification can normally follow using the Raman spectrometric test.Costing about Rs 5,000 a piece, the EDK is being commercially made by Noida-based Vantage Integrated Security Solutions Pvt Ltd under a Transfer of Technology pact with the DRDO. It is being widely used by the Bomb Detection and Disposal Squads of the Army, Paramilitary and state Police Forces in Jammu and Kashmir, Assam, Maharashtra, Gujarat, Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu. The American firm is soon to enter into an MoU with the DRDO, which has patented its EDK.

By same token look at the State police forces using the kit. UP is absent and could account for the gap.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Dec 2010 23:00

Since there is no reports from the FSl on the nature of the bomb some loud thinking.

Its clear it had few or no metal components to evade the metal detectors.
The post blast residue shows multiple compounds were used. Some sort of high explosive, most likely in small quantity and a larger quanitity of low explosive to do most of the damage. Its a two part bomb. The small qty HE(RDX/Plastic etc) acts as the detonator or the primary and sets of the rest of the low explosive. The low explosive could be fertilizer as nitrate traces were detected. Also the idea of using the stone steps to generate shrapnel shows demoliton/sapper background.* The part unclear now is the fuse. What was used to setoff the HE?

Recall shoe and underwear bomber were trying to light the device and thus could be similar ignition based system. In such a case there would be little to no debris. Or as the unknown sources suggested the parts could be in the Ganga. Probable but unlikely. The reason is whoever wanted to ensure no traces back to the originators. So if the parts flew in different trajectory they would still be in the debris.

* Recall the TSPA soldier declared as a martyr on their website had a military engineer background. So it could be that TSPA is deputing its personnel to train Indian terrorists. Maybe his work is now being acknowledged?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Dec 2010 23:24

X-posted....

Mandeep,
I agree that this guy was a support function to the TSP terrorist groups in India. I also think he was a bombmaker going by his sapper background. I also think we are going on wrong trail thinking he suffered from his ailment while on a mission. His whole posting in Delhi Embassy was his mission. Now taking these conclusions into account I would submit that his field of operations was Varanasi where there was blast exactly a week(Nov 24) after his demise(Nov 16).

I also think its his pupils who conducted the Dec 7th, 2010 Varanasi blast for in my view its a sapper type bomb(demolition) and not a terrorist type bomb(shrapnel, nails etc).

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 18 Dec 2010 07:59

ramana wrote:Since there is no reports from the FSl on the nature of the bomb some loud thinking.

Its clear it had few or no metal components to evade the metal detectors.
The post blast residue shows multiple compounds were used. Some sort of high explosive, most likely in small quantity and a larger quanitity of low explosive to do most of the damage. Its a two part bomb. The small qty HE(RDX/Plastic etc) acts as the detonator or the primary and sets of the rest of the low explosive. The low explosive could be fertilizer as nitrate traces were detected. Also the idea of using the stone steps to generate shrapnel shows demoliton/sapper background.* The part unclear now is the fuse. What was used to setoff the HE?

Recall shoe and underwear bomber were trying to light the device and thus could be similar ignition based system. In such a case there would be little to no debris. Or as the unknown sources suggested the parts could be in the Ganga. Probable but unlikely. The reason is whoever wanted to ensure no traces back to the originators. So if the parts flew in different trajectory they would still be in the debris.

* Recall the TSPA soldier declared as a martyr on their website had a military engineer background. So it could be that TSPA is deputing its personnel to train Indian terrorists. Maybe his work is now being acknowledged?

The primary device may have been fire triggred by something like Acetone Peroxide ( plus Ammonium Nitrate). Fertilizer (Ammonium Nitrate) plus Fuel Oil (ANFO) is classified as High Explosive as it "detonates" as opposed to "conflagrates" for low explosive. Among high explosives ANFO is considered "secondary explosive" as it requires a primer charge for detonation.
The mechanism you are describing is what is used in strip mining practice for ANFO blasts.
Gun Powerder being low explosive can be triggered by fire alone.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 19 Dec 2010 10:04

Varanasi bomb blast: Man detained at Mumbai airport after anonymous call

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Varan ... all/726602

Manish Jain · Post by **Manish Jain** » 20 Dec 2010 00:35

Varanasi blasts case solved. According to congress its Indian security forces who're the perpetrators and who then created IM to pin the blame on..

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 085370.cms

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Dec 2010 04:37

Manish Jain wrote:Varanasi blasts case solved. According to congress its Indian security forces who're the perpetrators and who then created IM to pin the blame on..

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 085370.cms

Sir - that news item appeared on 12th December. It is now the 20th of December.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Dec 2010 11:56

Ramana, there was another bomb which was discovered wasnt there?

So "trying to find what the material was from the debris" makes no sense here.

They have a full working object to examine.

I think it is deliberate misinformation by Govt agencies for whatever reason, but didnt want to say it out loud earlier. I guess enough time has passed that we can discuss this more openly.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Dec 2010 12:04

Maybe in the excitement and the need to appear to be in control the second IED was mis-spoken. We dont hear about it again.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Dec 2010 12:15

ramana wrote:Maybe in the excitement and the need to appear to be in control the second IED was mis-spoken. We dont hear about it again.

Yes, or it could be that the first news was true before the blankets were thrown on.

Usually the very first data news from the scene are most authentic even if a hurried analysis is usually wrong.

I make the claim that Govt is doing something funny here with real reports of investigation (and I do not grudge them that right)

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 23 Dec 2010 10:26

Hunt on for IM media cell member

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Hunt- ... ber/728207

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 Dec 2010 18:09

Indian police forces need to get out of the habit of giving soundbytes to the media within seconds of an incident and get more methodical about cordoning off the perimeter and tightly controlling the news that is allowed out. Also senior officers 'rushing to the spot' is no longer wise... but this will require better C2 in police forces

just saw an article in al guardian about ambala police being issued with decent cell phones for location and information services - monitoring, updates, etc. sounds like a good (but not secure) way of doing it

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 23 Dec 2010 19:45

Lalmohan wrote:Indian police forces need to get out of the habit of giving soundbytes to the media within seconds of an incident and get more methodical about cordoning off the perimeter and tightly controlling the news that is allowed out.

There are generally two reasons behind it. One is the government/home minister trying to force the police to make some "expert opinion" so that the ruling government gets some fig leaf to cover itself. Give some news or the other so that the media keeps quiet for some time. Next is that police men may also (especially when tricky questions are raised from sharp media men) inadverently leak out some information, so that they look smart in front of the media (for a short while).

Also senior officers 'rushing to the spot' is no longer wise... but this will require better C2 in police forces

Again an act to prove that he/she is now "in charge" and some thing good would happen soon. It only gives an impression that without superior officers arriving nothing else would move. Some thing similar is the visit of ministers as well.

just saw an article in al guardian about ambala police being issued with decent cell phones for location and information services - monitoring, updates, etc. sounds like a good (but not secure) way of doing it

Kerala Police introduced such a scheme some time last year. The phones etc. were provided by BSNL. They now piggy-ride on BSNL mobile network, but have local call groups, group SMS and a closed network all for them selves. This was when it was pretty much sure that the police wireless communication was no more secure. Other secured communication network like TETRA etc. seems to be too costly.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 Dec 2010 20:12

well, this sounds like TETRA-lite, and probably good enough for 90% of police tasks

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Dec 2010 10:20

Lalmohan wrote:Indian police forces need to get out of the habit of giving soundbytes to the media within seconds of an incident and get more methodical about cordoning off the perimeter and tightly controlling the news that is allowed out. Also senior officers 'rushing to the spot' is no longer wise... but this will require better C2 in police forces

Even the top brass of the police seem to be feeling irritated:

Bidari gets tough on info leaks

'A few of my officers are suffering from ‘verbal diarrhoea.'' This telling remark by City Police Commissioner Shankar Bidari on Thursday indicated the department’s frustration at a few officers leaking investigation details on the Dell employee Payal Surekha murder case.

Adding teeth to this frustration, Bidari gave a public dressing down to a police inspector and a sub-inspector.

A section of the media had on Thursday reported that the main accused in the case was James alias Vincent, a gym instructor who knew and had worked earlier with Payal’s husband.

Bidari said leaking information amounts to misconduct on the part of the officers. “We are yet to complete the formalities and before we could collect evidences, the investigation team revealed vital details to a section of the media. Now, I have called for an investigation into the leakage,” he said.

He assured that the unethical practice inside the department will not go unpunished. “We will take stern action against the officers and administer the strongest medicine. There is no doubt that some officers are media savvy and get hyper, that too when a case draws media trial.”

Eagerness amongst department insiders starting from the constabulary to the senior officers to hit the headlines remained an apparent source of headache for the top officials.

“Leakages not only hamper investigation but also leave chinks in paper works. The accused gets an upper hand to work through his way with regard to the court matters. If this trend continues, the cases we deal with may not hold water in the court of law and conviction rate would surely hit rock bottom,” a department official told Deccan Herald.

Involvement by a few police officers in the production of crime-based television programmes has remained a source of frustration for the commissionerate in recent times. This obviously pushes professional interest to the back seat, the official added.