India-US News and Discussion

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 12 Sep 2009 07:44

Oh look, jingos - someone came up with a comparison:

http://www.mint.com/blog/trends/india-v ... omparison/

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 12 Sep 2009 08:23

Oh, there's more:

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 12 Sep 2009 08:23

And more:

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 12 Sep 2009 08:28

And the one you've been waiting for:

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 12 Sep 2009 08:30

And last but not least:

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Sep 2009 10:49

jaladipc wrote:A part of Indian media itself is controlled by west.Dont want to name them for some reason.
While keeping the media aside,a majority of the politicians and even citizens themself were inspired by the yankee fascinating toys(Toys= frame your own meaning,since it has over a million synonyms)
If a major chunk of them population themself were sold out to an Allien country ,no wonder we are still after yanks .
I been pushing hard to let people know about the Alliens true faces.Even though after experience a lot of their behaviourism Indo minds arent loosing the zeal of concentration.
Does any one wondered why a sudden change in the tone of Iran regarding the nukes?Alliens are the shame less creatures, they wont even hesitate to go and sleep with enemy in case of need.
At the same time people does have to wonder about the recent change in metabolism between Israel and Russia.It was clearly proved that the Israeli interests will be threatened if the US-Iran diplomacy changes course.
To counter the allien-pariah effect Israel signed a couple of treaties with Russia with out letting any other nation know.It took an 'U' turn over Georgia.The same nation attested the independence of Abkhazia and South-Ossetia.

I really feel that the Indians are the really dumbest of all.With a lot of geo-political advances all over the world,India is still struck with its turtle nature.Again one has to wonder what made US to own a whole bombed building and truth behind it converting into an Embassy ?
What is the flavour behind a recent bridging between US and china? Why do US want China to be part of a bi-polar world?
Guys ask yourself.The stuff that we see on a day to day basis is totally different to what is been cooked behind the screens.I myself was once happy that US is supporting India.But after knowing its true face,I felt ashamed.
A humble request is that don`t be urself a pawn of those US moves which might give added momentum to full fill their own interests.

Jai Hind.

Expect deeper Israeli hedging in the future. India needs to do the same to counter G-2.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 12 Sep 2009 11:04

ramana wrote:
jaladipc wrote: What is the flavour behind a recent bridging between US and china? Why do US want China to be part of a bi-polar world?
Guys ask yourself.The stuff that we see on a day to day basis is totally different to what is been cooked behind the screens.I myself was once happy that US is supporting India.But after knowing its true face,I felt ashamed.
A humble request is that don`t be urself a pawn of those US moves which might give added momentum to full fill their own interests.

Jai Hind.
Expect deeper Israeli hedging in the future. India needs to do the same to counter G-2.

Brzezinski is the one who has proposed the idea of G-2, as you can see from one of my recent posts.
He wants G-2, because he's obsessed with containing Russia, and any other country (eg. India) which gets harmed in the process is merely collateral damage to him.
Japan would probably be harmed too, by succumbing to "Finlandization"

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 12 Sep 2009 11:04

Sanjay M-> Sorry to say this but the comparision put between the US and India for the lack of a better word nothing but crap.

For ex. How the US have lesser terrorist fatalities than India?? except for the year 2001, Indians die flies ont he wall to terrorists while Americans live in safety. Moreover, Americans atleast punish thier prepatrators not have chai bicuit like our netas.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 12 Sep 2009 11:06

Aditya_V wrote:Sanjay M-> Sorry to say this but the comparision put between the US and India for the lack of a better word nothing but crap.

For ex. How the US have lesser terrorist fatalities than India?? except for the year 2001, Indians die flies ont he wall to terrorists while Americans live in safety. Moreover, Americans atleast punish thier prepatrators not have chai bicuit like our netas.

Possibly they are counting casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan, perhaps - otherwise, how would you explain them having any terrorist casualties at all? India is not currently involved in any Iraq-scale or Afghanistan-scale combat operations. Or else, if you're including past terrorism casualties, then recognize that US records could date back to the beginning of their country's history, much before Indian record-keeping on this began.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 12 Sep 2009 11:07

Sanjay M wrote:

Possibly they are counting casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan, perhaps - otherwise, how would you explain them having any terrorist casualties at all? India is not currently involved in any Iraq-scale or Afghanistan-scale combat operations.

It is war and not terrorism

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 12 Sep 2009 11:10

Well, maybe their records go back to the beginning of their republic, even including the AmerIndian wars. I don't know what the basis of their measurements are. We can google around to find out.

arun · Post by **arun** » 13 Sep 2009 12:12

Truly, the loss of a great hero. Dr. Borlaug substantially contributed to our Green Revolution.

My condolences to the family:

Nobel Winner Norman Borlaug Dies

POSTED: 12:40 am CDT September 13, 2009 ……………

“The world has lost a great hero. Dr. Borlaug's tireless commitment to ending hunger had an enormous impact on the course of history."

KCCI

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 13 Sep 2009 17:59

Sanjay M wrote:
ramana wrote:
Expect deeper Israeli hedging in the future. India needs to do the same to counter G-2.
Brzezinski is the one who has proposed the idea of G-2, as you can see from one of my recent posts.
He wants G-2, because he's obsessed with containing Russia, and any other country (eg. India) which gets harmed in the process is merely collateral damage to him.
Japan would probably be harmed too, by succumbing to "Finlandization"

At the end of the day what happens is Iran-US kiss each other while spnaking the Israelis assse.I think Israelis are zillion times cleverer than our babus.They forecasted the incoming danger and are moving pawns according to it.
And another blatant truth that the outside world donot know is ,China already started controlling the US in lot of Issues while leaving no stone returned from US side.
Since the other NATO members are puppets to US, they are just gonna walk on the back of US shaking their tail.
Its certainly a loose-loose situation for India.We are digging our own graves by trusting US furthermore.When I proposed of enhancing extra-ordinary strategic relations with Russia and dumping the pin-ball relations with US they simply trashed my words.And its obvious now that whole nation is gonna suffer.
Atleast India tried to keep few chances of survival in terms of Israel and Russia.Israel will be our life saver.
The reason why US is trying to get close with Vietnam is nothing more than the apparent thing to rubbish out all the ground border clashes between china and vietnam.Its a clever move by China by sending US to approach the countries.While US is mesmerizing the outside world ,that all this shit is to contain china while is 180 degree in opposite direction.Sooner US will clear all the hurdles to China to lead its way into the IOR .
The situation if India then will be like:?????

Ramanji,

India failed to do anything.It is not the same dynamic leadership that we used to have during the 70`s.Apart from the few things which she failed as a PM ,she did a whole lot of things on the international stage by showing the middle finger to US.The current leaders are scared that if they show the middle finger ,US might steal the diamond ring they had on that finger .Unless you get a leader with balls to counter US-China ,we will be further throw ed into more depressed trajectory.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 13 Sep 2009 21:44

jaladipc wrote: Since the other NATO members are puppets to US, they are just gonna walk on the back of US shaking their tail.
Its certainly a loose-loose situation for India.We are digging our own graves by trusting US furthermore.When I proposed of enhancing extra-ordinary strategic relations with Russia and dumping the pin-ball relations with US they simply trashed my words.And its obvious now that whole nation is gonna suffer.

The present Chinese position is akin to position post-World War II Germany. Many neighboring Europeans, Russia and US are aware of imminent risk of Germany, but no body dared to face it openly till bigger Poland was annexed. At that time Germany was militarily and economically much comfortable.

Even today every Chinese neighbors are worried over Chinese aggressive military and economic might, but no body is openly is questioning it. What is not clear at this juncture is who will be first victim (Japan, India, Taiwan or Russia) and what is threshold point. All major powers in Asia are not willing to question aggressive China. US for easy Chinese credit to fill it deficit budget, Russia does not want to loose its export base, Japan does does not loose its fragile qualitative manufacturing bases in China, and India with its confused leadership.

With all due respect jaladipcji, at present we have no real friends who can standby us to encounter aggressive China till the threshold of world is tested, till that time we have to look after ourselves. At first sign of impending doom, all the corrupt, confused, greedy leadership, will fly away to green pastures, and there is no secondary leadership to correct and guide the nation, leaving masses to their own fate (in fact it is one of our greatest weakness of our Indian Civilization). So do not expect Russia to lend a helping hand till its land has been grabbed by Chinese in disguise protecting its Han population in far eastern Russia). To preserve its Asian dominance role you can expect at least US to supply armaments during a major crisis with China.

arunsrinivasan · Post by **arunsrinivasan** » 13 Sep 2009 23:18

Sanjay M wrote: Brzezinski is the one who has proposed the idea of G-2, as you can see from one of my recent posts.
He wants G-2, because he's obsessed with containing Russia, and any other country (eg. India) which gets harmed in the process is merely collateral damage to him.
Japan would probably be harmed too, by succumbing to "Finlandization"

My understanding is Brzezinski who is Polish American, doesnt like the Russians, because of bad blood between Soviet Union and Poland. Hence his desire to control Russia, & that probably explains his willingness to suck up to China, to checkmate Russia.

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 14 Sep 2009 02:57

kmkraoind wrote:At first sign of impending doom, all the corrupt, confused, greedy leadership, will fly away to green pastures, and there is no secondary leadership to correct and guide the nation, leaving masses to their own fate (in fact it is one of our greatest weakness of our Indian Civilization).

Present day weak leadership has nothing to do with civilization. Was IG an alien or Indian?

kmkraoind wrote:So do not expect Russia to lend a helping hand till its land has been grabbed by Chinese in disguise protecting its Han population in far eastern Russia). To preserve its Asian dominance role you can expect at least US to supply armaments during a major crisis with China.

That doesn't make sense.

Who helped India in Nuclear Bum technology? Who helped India develop Nuclear-submarine technology? Who helped India getting first-class intelligence over Pakistani bases(Foxbats)? Who supplied emergency satellite intelligence over Paki missile bases, during Kargil war?

Russia did.

All USA has done till today is fawking up India, from fawking India on Kashmir in UN which it continues even today. USA's interference in Gujarat riots, by refusing Visa to an elected Chief Minister.

Has Russia refused Visa to any Indian CM ever?

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 14 Sep 2009 03:09

kmkraoind wrote:Even today every Chinese neighbors are worried over Chinese aggressive military and economic might, but no body is openly is questioning it.

Same can be said about USA.

Today every country is worried over neo-con American aggression military and economic but nobody is questioning it.

Russia did the right thing by liberating Georgia territory from corrupt western puppets rule. India is next Georgia, its leaders are on the way to become western puppets.

Soon India will go Georgia's way. It will loose all confidence in her strength and will sit at doors of Unkil for all its problems just like skinless Georgian politicians sit at Unkil's foots.

Looking at Indian Home Minister on 'begging' tour, India is already near that status.

The key difference between 'Russian,Chinese' leaders and Indian leaders is, latter seeks consent from West on everything. Same is true with Indian elites. As a society and nation, Indians lack confidence in their roots and history. They ape West and they think that makes them something 'worthwhile'. Though, this problem exists with leaders and elites only. The poorer and lower middle class are nearer to their cultural roots and have supreme confidence in Indian's capabilities. Only because of some leaders coming from this section, India still has somewhat sane foreign policy although they are in minority.

Upper middle class, Rich(all business families) and Richer section(anglo-Indians/Queen-followers) of Indian society fall more easily for American propaganda. Until 26/11, they never cared to think about any national security issue.

MMS and SG aren't a good thing for India. That's my personal opinion only.

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 14 Sep 2009 03:33

What I said above is exactly the reason I prefer Laloo above MMS as PM, because he is aloof of western propaganda and closer to grassroots.

It has been a history that brightest of leaders from this soil haven't been those with higher education but those who understand masses and ground sentiments. Those who understand masses, possesses collective wisdom of many.

Vajpayee wasn't highly educated but he was closer to grassroots(that gave him balls) and had wisdom to do right things at right time.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 15 Sep 2009 18:08

Once in a while unkil shows 'who's the boss' thru this kind of visa rejections.

Singers suffer US visa blues

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090915/j ... 496339.jsp

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 16 Sep 2009 06:10

Don't kid yourselves about any of this. Al-Buraq Hussein Osama's insistence on "NPT Universality" (see below) is aimed at one country and one country only... the one which has consistently played by the rules of non-proliferation in good faith, instead of ordering in pre-tested maal from Uncle Jiang's.

http://www.hindu.com/2009/09/16/stories ... 711000.htm

THE HINDU, SEPTEMBER 16, 2009

Sign NPT, accept full safeguards, U.S. wants U.N. to tell India

Siddharth Varadarajan

Obama nonproliferation resolution in Security Council has no place for India exception

New Delhi: In a measure of how the official line in Washington on India’s nuclear status has changed from the Bush to the Obama administrations, the U.S. is circulating a draft U.N. Security Council resolution calling, inter alia, for all Indian nuclear facilities to be placed under international safeguards and not just those that have been declared “civilian” under the July 2005 Indo-U.S. civil nuclear agreement.

The ostensible rationale for the resolution President Barack Obama would like adopted at the special UNSC session he will chair on September 24 is to demonstrate the seriousness of his stated commitment to the eventual elimination of nuclear weapons.

But there is a sting in the tail for India: For the first time since the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) entered into force, the UNSC (i.e. the P5, a.k.a. "G2" in BH Osama parlance) is going to demand that all states outside the treaty sign it immediately or begin adhering to its provisions.

The only other time the UNSC has adopted such a prescriptive demand for a country or group of countries that never accepted the treaty was in 1998, when it passed resolution 1172 urging India and Pakistan to sign the NPT as well as the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty in the wake of the nuclear tests both countries conducted in May that year.

Since then, 1172 has been treated by the international community, and the U.S. in particular, as a dead letter as far as India is concerned.

Indeed, the Indo-U.S. civil nuclear agreement, followed by the Indian safeguards agreement at the IAEA and the Nuclear Suppliers group exemption was meant to underline Washington’s desire to treat as irrelevant India’s non-adherence to the NPT.

Of special concern to India, therefore, is the third operational paragraph of Mr. Obama’s proposed resolution, which says the U.N.: “Calls upon all States that are not Parties to the Treaty on the Non-proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) to join the Treaty so as to achieve its universality at an early date, and in any case to adhere to its terms;”.

For a country like India, that is not a party to the NPT and did not explode a nuclear device prior to 1968, the phrase “to join the treaty… and in any case to adhere to its terms” essentially means it should open up all nuclear facilities for inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency so that the latter can ensure that Indian reactors and fissile material stocks are not being used for weapons purposes.

Preambular paragraph 15 also reaffirms “all other relevant non-proliferation resolutions adopted by the Security Council,” an implicit reference to Resolution 1172.

Taken together, these references to India may lack enforceability but they do signal a quiet return to the “roll back” rhetoric and discourse of the Clinton era, before President George W. Bush pushed for India to be made an exception to the requirements of the NPT-related non-proliferation architecture.

Over the past few months, U.S. administration officials have revived the push for NPT universality at various international forums and sought to get the G8 to back a ban on enrichment and reprocessing technology sales to countries like India that have not signed the treaty.

Though these moves have been accompanied by statements of support for the Indo-U.S. nuclear deal and the beginning of talks on reprocessing, the repeated foregrounding of the NPT suggests growing American impatience with the Bush administration premise that India’s nuclear credentials warrant it being placed in a category different from Pakistan, Israel and North Korea.
Other provisions

The draft resolution also contains a range of other provisions on the CTBT, the permanence of safeguards and so on, as well explicitly requiring that all situations of “noncompliance with non-proliferation obligations” be brought to the UNSC which would then determine whether this non-compliance was a threat to international peace and security.

The only reference the resolution makes to the actual abolition of nuclear weapons is its call for all NPT and non-NPT members to undertake to pursue good faith negotiations on “a Treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control.” By clubbing together non-NPT states with all NPT states (i.e. both the nuclear and non-nuclear), this formulation avoids extending de facto recognition to the nuclear weapon status of India, Pakistan, Israel and North Korea.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 16 Sep 2009 07:49

Sri Obama's non-friendliness towards Dilli is no secret, at least now. Bright side is that much good might yet come off it.

Dilli has shown itself to be far more susceptible to charms, guile and flattery than to overt pressure/opposition.

Sri Obama pushing Dilli away might just have the beneficial effect that Dilli would be forced to curtail its enthusiasm following the Bush era for closeness with DC.

The less charitable explanation is that DC has already sunk its meat hooks so deep into desi polity and babucracy by now that they feel they can afford to let their real aims show forth, slowly. The even less charitable explanation is that the yindian emperor has no clothes only and everybody in the P5 (and possibly beyond) knows that Desi capabilities in the military and economic fields are more hype than substance, hence rubbing us the wrong way carries little consequence.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 16 Sep 2009 18:32

kmkraoind wrote:
The present Chinese position is akin to position post-World War II Germany. Many neighboring Europeans, Russia and US are aware of imminent risk of Germany, but no body dared to face it openly till bigger Poland was annexed. At that time Germany was militarily and economically much comfortable. Even today every Chinese neighbors are worried over Chinese aggressive military and economic might, but no body is openly is questioning it. What is not clear at this juncture is who will be first victim (Japan, India, Taiwan or Russia) and what is threshold point.

Don't know who will be the first victim.. However, Myanmar will be the next Poland, IMHO.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 16 Sep 2009 18:50

Chiron wrote
Don't know who will be the first victim.. However, Myanmar will be the next Poland, IMHO.

What will be India? The next GB or France?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 16 Sep 2009 19:51

Wow, with so much going for India, just a heartbeat away from becoming a 'super power', why not just sign shitty-bitty, n-pee-t, give Kashmir to TSP, etc. This could the script played out in Nov on white house lawn as Obama pats MMS on his back for a job well done.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 16 Sep 2009 19:59

Hari Seldon wrote:
The less charitable explanation is that DC has already sunk its meat hooks so deep into desi polity and babucracy by now that they feel they can afford to let their real aims show forth, slowly.

No doubt about this. Just a promise of 'green card' will do the trick.

The even less charitable explanation is that the yindian emperor has no clothes only and everybody in the P5 (and possibly beyond) knows that Desi capabilities in the military and economic fields are more hype than substance, hence rubbing us the wrong way carries little consequence.

The economic brouha is just that hype, no doubt about that. Just a few travel advisories against India and phone calls from state dept to Silicon valley big-wigs to hold back, and India's IT prowess will come tubling down like a pack of cards.

I suspect the same on the military front, although I would like to give the benefit of doubt. I would like to believe though that if our military had substance, some retaliation to TSP's brazen terrorist transgressions would have taken place by now, Hajpayee or MMS notwithstanding. On the other hand, there is not an iota of doubt that had TSP felt it can came in and take Kashmir, it would have also done so by now, but is deterred by Indian military. So there is cause for comfort there.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 16 Sep 2009 20:05

rkirankr wrote:
Chiron wrote
Don't know who will be the first victim.. However, Myanmar will be the next Poland, IMHO.
What will be India? The next GB or France?

India can't afford to be the France. Because in that case, there won't be a GB to hold on.. Bhaarat has stronger hold over the IOR than the Chinese. The peninsular India and Andamans are the greatest strategic assets of India in current times.

Bhaarat should start interfering in Myanmar. After a particular threshold of increasing Bhaaratiya interference, China will have to come out of closet.

IMHO, the two mountain divisions being raised in NEFA will be instrumental in mountainous-forest warfare along Indo-Burmese border. Any army with ambition to neutralize heartland of Bhaarat from east should invade through Myanmar-Bangladesh-Bengal. It is the easiest route to get to plains of Assam. Himalayan frontier war can only be tactical and short-lived and can never be strategic.

All this is of course assuming that China indeed has sinister ambitions of territorial conquest of Bhaarat just like Nazi-Germany had. I doubt why a nation should think of invading Bhaaratiya heartland. More practical approach will be small battle and quick capture of Ladakh-Northern Kashmir (north of Jhelum) to form a contiguous block of China-Pakistan without Bhaarat being around to bother.

China has replaced Russia in the equations of the Great-game. China's need for access to Indian Ocean is similar to Russia in 19th century. The trade and energy security of China depends upon this access. The sabre-rattling should be in NEFA and thrust should be in Kashmir, if the battle is to serve Chinese interest. Just that, Lhasa is awfully close to India from Tawang-Bhutan, if major Chinese thrust is Ladakh-Kashmir. The simultaneous Indian thrust in Myanmar will seriously undermine the efficacy of the containment move currently being executed by China vis-a-vis India.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 17 Sep 2009 21:27

Obama policy of not putting missile shield is an excellent one. Though I suggest that US keeps an eye on Iran in a way that they do not get long range missiles from North korea.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Sep 2009 22:08

joshvajohn wrote:Obama policy of not putting missile shield is an excellent one. Though I suggest that US keeps an eye on Iran in a way that they do not get long range missiles from North korea.

I thought you were advisor to GOI but now you are also advisor to Obama govt.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 17 Sep 2009 23:31

yes But I do not advise anyone. But suggestions can be made any good citizens of the world to any government? Can we not? If they take it for good, grand! if not that is fine. I applaud the Indian officials for taking serious criticisms and serious suggestions. I really love to see a good relationship between US and India evolving without creating new enemies!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Sep 2009 19:02

http://www.thenation.com/slideshow/2009 ... _rightwing

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090928/jones

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 20 Sep 2009 14:05

I donot know why Obama is obsessed with this health care plan? He should give it up. It may be a plan of his own to bring his popularity down. He should not confront the American public with these kind of reforms. One cannot get out of the popular demands of the public and go against it when the expecations were so high.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 20 Sep 2009 18:15

Coming triumph of the Taliban and Pakistan?

Even as US military commanders seek a troop increase in Afghanistan to check a resurgent Taliban, US voter support is fast eroding. A CNN poll in September showed that 58% of Americans oppose the war while only 39% support it. Among Democrats, only 23% support the war, and the number keeps falling.
President Obama initially called the war in Afghanistan one of necessity, and proposed a big US troop increase. But with voter support slipping, Obama now says he will not rush the decision. Democratic Congressmen say in private that US withdrawal is a matter of time. One told me, ‘‘The British couldn’t pacify Afghanistan, the Russians couldn’t, and we can’t either.’’
So, do not be surprised if the coming year witnesses contacts between the US and Taliban to find a face-saving formula for US exit. Afghan president Hamid Karzai has long argued for a negotiated deal with what he calls the good Taliban. He was earlier discouraged by the US, but maybe not for much longer.
Back in 2008, the Bush administration actively considered talks with the Taliban. Ashley Tellis, a former state department official, says a deal with the Taliban is possible provided it is based on US military victories that diminish rewards for insurgency. Malou Innocent and Ted Galen Carpenter of the Cato Institute point out that US security is threatened by al-Qaida, not the Taliban, and argues that the US can deter the Taliban from giving safe havens to al-Qaida if it comes to power again.
US hawks disagree strongly. They recall that a peace accord was signed by the US and North Vietnam in 1973, which was violated by Hanoi after US troops left. Nevertheless, even some conservative journals are now making the case for withdrawal.
Ralph Peters, a military expert writing in the conservative New York Post, asks, ‘‘What does the Obama administration hope to do in Afghanistan? Establish a stable democracy in a land where blood vendettas last for centuries and tribal loyalties trump all? Force a secular constitution on a society that prefers religious law? Develop a modern economy where running water is a rarity? Why?’’
He adds, ‘‘Even if we achieved each of those goals, would the result be worth the cost in blood, money and time? Don’t we have better things to do with our strategic capital? Al-Qaida is a global franchise — yet we’re concentrating our investment on the Taliban, the equivalent of a local chain of blacksmith shops.’’
US hawks worry that Afghanistan will become a safe haven for terrorists if US troops leave. But Paul Pillar, former deputy chief of the CIA, has warned in the Washington Post against exaggerating the value of safe havens to terrorists.
‘‘The preparations most important to the September 11, 2001, attacks took place not in training camps in Afghanistan but, rather, in apartments in Germany, hotel rooms in Spain and flight schools in the United States. In the past couple of decades, international terrorist groups have thrived by exploiting globalization and information technology, which has lessened their dependence on physical havens. By utilizing networks such as the internet, terrorists’ organizations have become more network-like, not beholden to any one headquarters.... Al-Qaida’s role is now less one of commander than of ideological lodestar, and for that role a haven is almost meaningless.’’
The debate is by no means over, and US troop withdrawal is by no means certain. Yet, the will and stamina of the US has clearly been sapped, and momentum is building for an exit. For the Taliban, a comeback will be a huge victory, one that will cause much dismay in India.
This will be a fabulous victory for Pakistan too. It helped create the Taliban, through which it obtained influence in Afghanistan as never before. Pakistani military planners view Afghanistan as strategic space in the event of a war with India, and for this they need the Taliban’s cooperation.
After 9/11, Pakistan was forced by the US to disown the Taliban, cooperate in tackling al-Qaida, and curb the activities of jihadis in Kashmir. But it is an open secret that Pakistan actually gave sanctuary to top Taliban leaders, and the US winked at this. If US troops exit, Pakistan may once again encourage jihadis to stir up trouble in India, and not just in Kashmir.
Clearly, India must prepare for the day when US pressure is no longer effective on jihadis in Pakistan. India must quickly upgrade its own counter-insurgency skills and get the best technologies and institutional arrangements from the US. The future bristles with dangers.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Sep 2009 19:15

durgesh wrote:Coming triumph of the Taliban and Pakistan?

After 9/11, Pakistan was forced by the US to disown the Taliban, cooperate in tackling al-Qaida, and curb the activities of jihadis in Kashmir. But it is an open secret that Pakistan actually gave sanctuary to top Taliban leaders, and the US winked at this. If US troops exit, Pakistan may once again encourage jihadis to stir up trouble in India, and not just in Kashmir.

This Aiyar guy has made no bones about his contempt for India's position on Kashmir and openly advocates secession of Kashmir from India. The about quote, bolded parts confirm this.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 21 Sep 2009 02:53

X-posting.

suryag wrote:Musharraf rewarded militant who slit Indian officer’s throat

He was reportedly killed in a United States drone attack in North Waziristan last week.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Sep 2009 08:22

From NSA's Interview

He said Pakistan’s acquisition of sophisticated weaponry from America in the last three to four years was more worrying than any modification of Harpoon missiles.

markos · Post by **markos** » 21 Sep 2009 09:47

joshvajohn wrote:I donot know why Obama is obsessed with this health care plan? He should give it up. It may be a plan of his own to bring his popularity down. He should not confront the American public with these kind of reforms. One cannot get out of the popular demands of the public and go against it when the expecations were so high.

I wish the wackos marching against Obama's Health reform in DC (at Beck's call) would take up marching a daily habit instead of sitting on the couch watching Glenn Beck and Hannity - that alone could save quite a bit of money for the healthcare system.

Unfortunately their idol is the 800 pound man - Rush Limbaugh, a drug addict.

American health care system is probably the least effective among industrialized nations when measured against outcomes. There is little transparency when it comes to pricing, people are overtreated. A comprehensive reform is badly needed and existing insurance system or schemes to channel even more money to insurance companies is not the solution.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 21 Sep 2009 11:17

^ Sri Markos has nailed it above brilliantly. Jai Sri markos.

Moi has to wonder though whats stopping Sri Obama from steamrolling the piddly opposition - pathetic lunatics and nutcases who deserve no better than the likes of Back and Limbaugh anyway.

Lets see - the senate, the House, the Supreme court, big media and a clear majority of the public are on Sri Obama's side, last I recall.

Heck, even the mighty med industry lobbies - insurance scamsters, big pharma, the AMA monopoly rents extracter etc - have also been co-opted with assurances their fiefdoms shall be protected.

Then why this pusillanimity, pray? Or did a few 1000 nutjobs marching to DC truly scare the man of the people from unabashedly doing what's in the people's supreme interest, eh? Somehow that seems unconvincing.

I'm convinced Sri Obama and his competent, super-efficient and supremely sincere sidekick Sri Rahm Emmanuel will do the right thing and spend hard earned (and borrowed) taxpayer dollahs at home instead of dabbling in unrest abroad.

Jai Ho.

-Sri Hari Om

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 21 Sep 2009 13:56

^^ US quickly tries to cover-up any of its anti-India action by throwing some nuggets. For example, US has given wide-array of sophisticated weaponery to pak army in last 4 years 80% of which cannot be used in warfare against talibs and it is clearly for use against India. Now when the news came out and Indian as a nation wanted a debate on it to question American intention and its anti-India stand, US embassy in India quickly came out with a statement saying Hafiz Sayeed should be arrested which clearly distracted the policy makers to a new issue and debate that forgetting the old issue. US cleverly follows the policy of mis-direction with most new allies because they are gullible and I believe that India is a gullible nation which believes that Indo-US interests are aligned. The old allies like Britain and Europe always knows these subtle games that US plays and hence dont give much importance to what US says and what not. A pure fact is that US interests are aligned just for projecting itself as a super-power and keeping that position along with protecting European colonial powers at whatever cost. Sooner, we learn this better it will be.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Sep 2009 14:06

Another mistake gullible nations like India make is that the pronouncements of the US ambassador in their country are taken as the US State's policy. Not so at all. Most of the times, the US ambassadors mouth statements that the respective nations that they serve in would want to hear. The US State Dept however makes the policy that best fits the US interests. We have the famous incidents of Galbraith furiously arguing against quite a few decisions by the US that went against India.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 21 Sep 2009 14:07

Ashish,

I find it hard to believe that our babucracy is unaware of unkilian misdirection. Chances are they know. Yet they choose to play along not because they are incompetent sellouts or traitors but likely because, Dilli is not in any position to 'do anything about it'. Yet. As and when that changes, one can see change on the ground as well. Gubmint policy direction changes slwoly at any rate.