Understanding the US - Again

[g.sarkar]

Personally I would not kill anyone in Texas.

Horrifying article.
G.Sarkarji, wouldn’t it be better if you not kill anywhere in the world and not just in Texas?

Sirji,
Southern Sates are putting inmates to death regularly, and Texas more so. Hence that comment. Even Ted Bundy made the mistake killing in a Southern State (Florida).
Gautam

[saip]

...
I disagree.

We can disagree. That is our right.

To agree to disagree (but not violently) is one of the pillars of democracy. But the OM has turned that on its head. Voltaire is probably spinning in his grave ("I may not agree ....").
Right now US of A and Nazi Germany are somewhat apart but getting closer everyday. Who knows, if the OM gets another term (Constitution be damned) they will jive together.

[chetak]

[Deans]

I took Prof Graham Allison's course at Harvard (online) back in 2015, being one of the 300 who qualified, based on an essay.
His Co-professor was David Sanger, NYT Foreign affairs writer.

He's one of the best minds in the world in academia, on big power conflict.

[Vayutuvan]

@Deans ji, you used to post in Math thread. Please do spend some time there.

[chetak]

IIhan Omar, while grinning, says Charlie Kirk deserved it and had it coming: "He downplayed George Floyd. and slavery."

"People say he wanted to have a civil debate... It's bullshit."

(she was on Mehdi Hasan show)

Vayutuvan ji,

[A_Gupta]

Documented money flow to universities, lobbyists etc is perfectly legal, for instance as China does it. Why Qatar would provide undocumented funds is the question.

[A_Gupta]

Charlie Kirk was likely anti-Muslim, but he was also anti-Indian; and anti-Civil-Rights-legislation of the 1960s.

An old timer like Amber G can probably educate us on what Indian-Americans owe to the Civil Rights legislation.

The enemy of your enemy may also be an enemy.

[Tanaji]

Well said A_Guptaji

The American society is on the cusp of tearing itself. When the Dems win next term there is likely to be zero introspection as to why Trump came to power; it will be more of doubling down on its own excesses and blaming Reps as racists or worse. There is not a single leader in both sides that will bridge the divide. In fact the Islam pasand left will not allow any rapprochement.

Indians will be stuck in the middle - we are neither white nor Christian nor Liberal nor Islamic. Money can take us only so far….

[Hriday]

About the widespread gun violence in the USA. IIRC many years ago Ramana commented on a post on this forum that, during the British rule of India they soon disallowed the possession of guns in one's (British or Indian native soldiers) own home. The reason is that they quickly found that people often used guns to settle the petty fights within family or neighbours. Humans had a problem of controlling anger. And when we give them such a powerful weapon as a gun, the result will be disastrous. And Charlie Kirk was firm and advocating for the possession of guns with civilians.

[rajkumar]

About the widespread gun violence in the USA. IIRC many years ago Ramana commented on a post on this forum that, during the British rule of India they soon disallowed the possession of guns in one's (British or Indian native soldiers) own home. The reason is that they quickly found that people often used guns to settle the petty fights within family or neighbours. Humans had a problem of controlling anger. And when we give them such a powerful weapon as a gun, the result will be disastrous. And Charlie Kirk was firm and advocating for the possession of guns with civilians.

The British after 1857 systematically 'disarmed' the Indian population. They went from house to house and consifcated all weapons. Similarly they banned all Indian martial arts

[Rudradev]

Has he said a word about "abuse" of the H1B program here? ...
Talking about instances of H1B abuse to deflect from Charlie Kirk's actual statement is a stellar example of

Those abuses were building up the frustration in the Americans including Indian-Americans. Kirk posted on X. That is the only diefference between him and the Democrats who were underhanded about it by couching in nice Haavaad language, onlee.

Bringing in "Democrats" is simply another deflection from what is relevant here.

Charlie Kirk could have posted about any issue under the sun. Instead, he chose to join a bandwagon of rabidly anti-India demagogues in specifically vilifying US-resident NRIs and Indian Americans (who have nothing to do with Indian government policy). By attacking Indian-origin people in the US at the time he did, and on the platform he did, he participated in an organized campaign to demonize us-- exploiting our vulnerable status as a micro-minority "hostage population" to bring pressure on the Modi government.

Peter Navarro took the lead in this campaign with his "Hindu"/"Maharaja"/"Brahmin" dog-whistles, and scum like Laura Ingraham and Charlie Kirk piled on to the trend, using their massive social-media reach to amplify the targeting of Indians in the United States.

No wonder you are such a fan of the Charlie Kirk/Prager University school of "debating".

OK. Now resorting to ad hominem that you are losing the argument.

How is that ad-hominem when you yourself expressed (as part of this argument) your admiration for Charlie Kirk's supposed debating skills?

Chaploos or not, he did well on college campuses. He came prepared and debated well with students

This was part of your defence of Kirk from the get-go. I merely pointed out that using strawman arguments and posting claims without evidence-- as you did in the previous post-- was typical of Charlie Kirk's style of debating as well.

His views are no more anti-India/Indian than Baptist Harris, Pramila Jayapal, Ilhan Omar, Obama (how soon we forget his National Prayer address soon after returning from India where he was the chief guest for Aug 15th), Biden who sent a carrier group patrolling in the Arabian ocean right after he became POTUS, Leon Panetta saying adversaries like China and India (when he was in India addressing Indian policymakers) so on so forth.

You can abuse Democrats as much as you want, as far as I am concerned. I abuse them too when they deserve it.

But Charlie Kirk is noteworthy here and now, because his attack was on people of Indian origin in the United States. The reason he did it, as obviously evident from the context of his tweet and the content of the Laura Ingraham tweet he quoted, was in response to the policy of the government of India (specifically: Modi going to SCO instead of caving in to the absurd demands of Chump and his thugs).

Charlie Kirk was serving an agenda to focus targeted hatred against Indian-origin people in the United States as a proxy for the Indian government. He did this by calling for specific discrimination against Indian-origin people (a violation of US anti-discrimination laws, by the way) on the completely false grounds that legal immigration from India causes harm to Americans. Rationally, there is no other way to interpret his tweet, given its timing and context.

I also don't feel any need to wear my emotional connect with India on my sleeve. I will leave it to those who are feeling guilty that they are not giving anything back to their motherland. I do my part. I don't feel guilty for acting in self-interest of my family and my children who are second generation Indian-Americans.

You don't have to wear anything on your sleeve. In American society, your Indian origin already speaks for itself in many ways. A target is already being painted on you and your family by the likes of Charlie Kirk/Laura Loomer/Ann Coulter/Peter Navarro/Stephen Miller.

From their point of view, Indian-Americans must all be thrown under the bus as long as Chump's Nobel Prize ambitions are threatened by Modi's refusal to kowtow. They have always resented our very existence here and now they have Trump's anti-India tantrum as a pretext to push for our erasure.

You think this is about "guilt" because you refuse to confront the fact that everyone who shares your national origin is under attack by ideological sociopaths. Waving the flag and repeating CPAC talking points will not help you evade the consequences at all.

In all sincerity, I hope your family and children remain unaffected by this deliberate targeting.

I am going to disagree with you on this C. Kirk murder

I have no disagreement on the murder. Murder is murder and the perpetrator, once proven guilty, should face all the consequences of the law.

My point is that Charlie Kirk was a vile specimen of humanity when he was alive.

Re Khobragade, I searched your posts . No posts from that time exist. Probably they are never archived or were lost. As far I remember,your first reaction was (paraphrasing here ofc) to blame DK for her corruption in India. I even remember @ramana gaaru requesting you to stand up for DK and India.

One thing more indicative of losing an argument than an ad-hominem attack, is an ad-hominem attack with zero evidence. Your claim regarding my views on the Devyani Khobragade episode is false. The more false claims you make-- whether you make them intentionally or mistakenly-- the more your credibility suffers in all matters on which you express opinions.

move on. Peace.

Fair enough.

[Rudradev]

The enemy of your enemy may also be an enemy.

Why this isn't obvious to more people, I'll never understand.

[krisna]

About the widespread gun violence in the USA. IIRC many years ago Ramana commented on a post on this forum that, during the British rule of India they soon disallowed the possession of guns in one's (British or Indian native soldiers) own home. The reason is that they quickly found that people often used guns to settle the petty fights within family or neighbours. Humans had a problem of controlling anger. And when we give them such a powerful weapon as a gun, the result will be disastrous. And Charlie Kirk was firm and advocating for the possession of guns with civilians.

correction.

Indians had weapons for long -centuries. I do not recollect anything to hide or ban the weapons by any Hindu king in the past
.
Post 1857 Indian rebelion, the brithsit banned the possession of guns by Indians. They destroyed all gun producing factories of those times by Indians.Britshits were rattled by Indians using guns to kill brithsits.

The Ganga region- Sanatani heartland was the biggest gun producing factories of those times.

(many parallells to tactics used by britshits used in America against native Indians were modified to be used against Bharatiyas in AkhandBharat)

Humans had a problem of controlling anger. And when we give them such a powerful weapon as a gun, the result will be disastrous

Amongst all cultures existing today only Sanatan Dharma has tools for control fo anger, avoid excessive hate , modify behaviours etc , self introspection and many others. Despite genocidal tendecies of book cultures we as sanatanis dont narbor such hate or other tendencies towards these abrahamics. Will avoid here as not the right thread.

maybe write a little more and explore what science has to say on these.

[krisna]

there are a few comments regarding hitler and nazs.

Hitler was christian and hated jews accoridngly. he followed the medevial hatred of jews by christians. Nothing else.
The cross used was that of christian one in his home town church. he had a liking for it.

Later his cross was made into swastike -Hindu hatred by britshit missionary and spread worldwide.

Regarding his tretament of jews -- he and his team stduied the slave treatemnt in usa and got plenty of ideas. It is said he had some germans sent to usa to know about these.

This is known but less reported in mainstream media.

[Vayutuvan]

Vayutuvan ji,
[img...]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G0i58nIXEAA ... name=large[/img]

Once that is done, they will slit the throats of the left. CCP has a handle on these buggers but then they are not really left anymore. The left CG has shifted to Europe and the Atlantists in massa, and Canada.

[Vayutuvan]

Well said A_Guptaji, There is not a single leader in both sides that will bridge the divide. In fact the Islam pasand left will not allow any rapprochement.

Rahm Emanuel and Josh Shapiro on the Dem side and Vivek Ramaswamy and Nikky Haley on the GOPers side come to mind.

[Vayutuvan]

About the widespread gun violence in the USA. IIRC many years ago Ramana commented on a post on this forum that, during the British rule of India they soon disallowed the possession of guns in one's (British or Indian native soldiers) own home.

As @raj kumar ji said, it was done after First war for Independence of 1857. Till then EIC was ruling India. Only in 1857, we came under the Crown, i.e. British govt rule. They abolished private ownership of firearms so as to prevent a repeat of 1776 in India. They came pretty close to losing in 1857 itself.

[Rakesh]

Oh my! Where is the face palm smiley!!!!

VIDEO: https://x.com/GozukaraFurkan/status/1966548890674467200 ---> "I wish we could blame this on Muslims or migrants, but turns out it was one of us." what a wild thing to say.

[Vayutuvan]

specifically vilifying US-resident NRIs and Indian Americans (who have nothing to do with Indian government policy). By attacking
...
Fair enough.

I interpreted the post on X differently. I interpreted it as against new legal immigration of unskilled workers coming in due to family reunion and take up jobs in Gas stations, motels, 7-11s, DQs to the detriment of poor white/black folks and high school students trying to earn a little bit money on the side to help out their parents. I take "America is full" as it is full now but not before. Which makes sense if you look at the history and what is going in the job market right now. I am 100% sure that US will be OK even if they (we?) do not get a large number of H1Bs to do sysadmin jobs (which can be done remotely quite easily) and/or online support service centers.

Costs will go up somewhat but the quality also will be better. Whatever people feel about how good Indian call center folks are, they still have an accent when it comes to servicing the US customers. Also there is the risk private information leaking out and used to to phishing and others Western Union/Soc Security scams.

They have to start tightening somewhere and India is the most visible as well the top country to supply H1Bs as well as large call center services out of India.

Peace.

[Vayutuvan]

One thing more indicative of losing an argument than an ad-hominem attack, is an ad-hominem attack with zero evidence. Your claim regarding my views on the Devyani Khobragade episode is false. The more false claims you make-- whether you make them intentionally or mistakenly-- the more your credibility suffers in all matters on which you express opinions.

move on. Peace.

Fair enough.

I will take your word for it. I take back my accusation and I apologize for misremembering and then go onto slander you without evidence.

[Vayutuvan]

Oh my! Where is the face palm smiley!!!!

VIDEO: https://x.com/GozukaraFurkan/status/1966548890674467200 ---> "I wish we could blame this on Muslims or migrants, but turns out it was one of us." what a wild thing to say.

That too with Kash Patel looking straight ahead in the background. Ridiculous fellows these Church of the LDS guys. It is embarrassing to say the least. But are we sure this is not a deep fake? The guy who posted works in Deep Fake technology. Let us verify before reposting.

[Vayutuvan]

MuslimMatters
@MuslimMatters
1h
That’s inaccurate tweet. Especially putting it in quotes makes it sound he said it. He didn’t. It’s a stretch that he even implied Muslim (not one of us could be a non American or a non Utah resident).
16 5.5K

Yeah. Gov never mentioned "muslim". He did say that he was hoping that it is somebody from outside the country or from outside Utah. Slightly better but still quite embarrassing. Question is whether this guy Taylor Robinson is a Wignat. Then case closed. These buggers are no better than radical Islamists.

[Mort Walker]

The statement by the Utah governor was delayed so Kash Patel could get his photo op there. Kash Patel has said NOTHING about the Indian motel owner in Dallas, TX beheaded by an illegal alien from Cuba. In this action/inaction, Kash Patel is demonstrating the same incompetence as other Trump cabinet members.