Radar - Specs & Discussions

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Feb 2023 10:30

fanne wrote:Hmm, I thought the guy with the mic issue at AI 2023 was you (where the camera paned for a brief moment at a pretty lady in the background ...sorry that is what one remembers, bad idea for the cameraman)

In any case, my emphasis was that have we leapfrogged from GaAS to GaN directly. We did make some token GaAs, did we solve all the issues? Or it was similar (i not same) effort to find solutions for GaAs vs GaN, and since GaN is better than GaAs in almost every way, we decided to go directly to GaN (as we had no sunk cost to worry about).

Maitya ji, I was also intrigued by the same video. It looks like we are there, Even Netra 2 is using GaN. We must have some maturity in that tech to be using it for many systems. It may be my imagination, but did I also hear Uttam variant with GaN?
I do not understand the significance of liquid cooling. Can you please shed some light?

You are asking questions about topics that should not be discussed publicly beyond the bare minimum that DRDO etc reveal. We are not that far away from 1999 and the lessons those events taught us. Suffice to say the only true answer to our GaN challenges is at IISc, our progress otherwise is still ongoing, and the IISc effort has not received funding yet beyond the bare minimum. There is no urgency in funding any defence or core R&D beyond the minimum either, so this situation is unlikely to change rapidly. We will see iterative progress though.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 25 Feb 2023 21:20

Karan M wrote:l. We are not that far away from 1999 and the lessons those events taught us.

what does this mean?

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 25 Feb 2023 23:18

fanne wrote:
maitya wrote:Not sure where to post this video, so posting it here ... India Is Ready To Fight War Of Technology! DRDO ECS At Aero India 2023
Fanneji, pls focus on 8:56 onwards, specifically around 9:15 or thereabouts ... he specifically says, and I quote, "... we have gone from LDMOS to GaAs to GaN ...".
Thanks Maitya ji for taking the pain to point to the exact location. Learned LDMOS today

Good to see such enthusiasm in the professionals !! absolutely amazing efforts ..proud of such people taking so much pride in their work

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 25 Feb 2023 23:20

fanne wrote:
Karan M wrote:l. We are not that far away from 1999 and the lessons those events taught us.
what does this mean?

He is referring to the sanctions after nuclear tests by India and the US suddenly restricting access to CLAWS code that Indians had developed

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 25 Feb 2023 23:36

I think in the video and elsewhere it says there are other players that manufacture GaN wafers - not only IISC. I think we already have the basic foundry for that.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 01 Mar 2023 10:22

Wildlife Board approves IAF mountain radar in Ladakh.

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 01 Mar 2023 12:05

Vips wrote:Wildlife Board approves IAF mountain radar in Ladakh.

As a defence enthusiast AND a nature/wild life lover i don't know whether to be happy or sad

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 01 Mar 2023 13:50

Kersi wrote:
Vips wrote:Wildlife Board approves IAF mountain radar in Ladakh.
As a defence enthusiast AND a nature/wild life lover i don't know whether to be happy or sad

Not sure if China has similar concerns, Indian deployments have mostly been defensive

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 01 Mar 2023 20:02

Kersi wrote:
Vips wrote:Wildlife Board approves IAF mountain radar in Ladakh.
As a defence enthusiast AND a nature/wild life lover i don't know whether to be happy or sad

How common or rare is that combination ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Mar 2023 01:12

I think we should use this thread for Avionics equipment also.

IAF RFQ for new jamming pod aka replacement for SAP- 518

RFI for Replacing SAP-518

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Mar 2023 03:57

ramana wrote:I think we should use this thread for Avionics equipment also.

IAF RFQ for new jamming pod aka replacement for SAP- 518

RFI for Replacing SAP-518

ramana garu, if you read that RFI it curiously mentions "The Indian Air Force is planning to replace obsolescent hardware on five SAP 518
pods of Su-30MKI aircraft. " This does not look like an RFI for replacing the pods themselves but sort of a hardware upgrade of those pods. Also curious is the fact that they only seek to replace the hardware on 5 pods. Hope this does not indicate the total number of SAP-518 pods in the inventory and the small number is only meant as a pilot project which if successful will be extended to all the pods in inventory (which hopefully again is a lot more than 5).

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Mar 2023 03:31

There are many things wrongn in that RFI. Eg 12 month tumeline. And tie up with DRDO is a side project that is crucial to success. And note no frequencies.
Basically written by commerce graduate.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Mar 2023 03:32

Common avionics between Mk2 and AMCA

https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... zn96A&s=19

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 24 Mar 2023 18:09

Medium Power Radar ‘Arudhra’ and Radar Warning Receivers worth Rs 3,700 cr for IAF.

In a bid to enhance the operational capabilities of the Indian Air Force (IAF), the Defence Ministry on Thursday signed two separate contracts with Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL), at a total cost of over Rs 3,700 crore.

The first contract, worth over Rs 2,800 crore, pertains to the supply of Medium Power Radars (MPR) ‘Arudhra’ for the Indian Air Force. The second contract, at an overall cost of approx. Rs 950 crore, relates to 129 DR-118 Radar Warning Receivers (RWR). Both projects are under Buy Indian- IDMM (Indigenously Designed Developed and Manufactured) category. These essentially embody the spirit of ‘Aatmanirbhar Bharat’ and will help facilitate the realisation of the country’s journey to achieve self-reliance in defence manufacturing.

MPR (Arudhra), radar has been indigenously designed and developed by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and will be manufactured by BEL.

Its successful trials have already been conducted by the Indian Air Force. It is a 4D multi-function phased array radar with electronic steering in both azimuth and elevation for surveillance, detection and tracking of aerial targets. The system will have target identification based on interrogations from co-located Identification Friend or Foe system.

The project will act as a catalyst for the development of manufacturing capability in the industrial ecosystem.

Besides this, the DR-118 Radar Warning Receiver will considerably enhance the Electronic Warfare (EW) capabilities of Su-30 MKI aircraft.

The majority of sub-assemblies and parts will be sourced from indigenous manufacturers. The project will boost and encourage active participation of Indian Electronics and associated industries, including MSMEs. It will generate employment of around two lakh man-days over a period of three and half years.

The DR-118 RWR is a significant leap forward in developing indigenous EW capabilities and making the country ‘Aatmanirbharta’ in defence. (ANI)

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 26 Mar 2023 08:11

JTull wrote:https://twitter.com/Flankerchan/status/ ... TdbfMS3f6w
The "Hard" limit of emitted power of AESA radar. The cooling capacity.

this equation is taken from K.Barton's "Radar System Analysis and Modelling" 2005 Edition. Page 165.
https://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=53650

Avionics cooling capacity of fighter aircraft

As in title. This is a topic i always wondering about, and the answer is not straightforward but i think it's interesting to brought.

Recently i got myself a good book titled "Radar Analysis and Modeling" 2005 edition by David K Barton. P-165 contain interesting equation which relates cooling capacity with maximum emitted average power of AESA radar. Plus example with air cooling which about 2 Kw/sqm. Other link i found however states air cooling capacity of 1-1.5 watt/sq inch or about 1.5-2.3 Kw / sqm.

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articl ... iquid.html

Using 2.3 Kw/sqm as value (best case maybe) I tried working on possible range of new Chinese air cooled KLJ-7A. One should make assumption tho about the variables

-1000 TRM
-X band (0.032 m wavelength)
-Air cooling capacity of 2.3 Kw/sqm (air cooling capacity is between 1.5-2.3 KW/sqm) Liquid could be up to 155 KW but i wonder such capacity could be carried by fighter aircraft.
-Module efficiency (PAE) of 25% (A-class) Other classes could be used but for radar application this could compromise signal purity.

Working with the equation indicates the maximum average power that could be emitted from above spec is about 397 Watt. The peak power assuming 25% duty cycle (typical for pulse doppler radar) Is 1587.2 Watt or 1.5 KW. Each module's peak emitted power is then 1.6 Watt.

Calculated range would be 191 km with 50% detection probability for 5 sqm RCS target. However it's been revealed that the maximum range of KLJ-7A would be 170 km. Could be because my spreadsheet didn't take account of clutter Or the radar have lesser amount of modules or power rating than what i assume.

Now i wonder if there is any example value for say liquid cooling ? can a fighter jet carry 155 Kw/sqm cooling capacity ?

For me at least the equation is very helpful, especially when i tried to make educated guess on fighter aircraft radar range.

Saar, look at leading edge of 5G Ka band RAN, all on GaN. Cooling is key.

Look at patent on micro channel liquid cooling of die.

I gave a url to trade publication, about 3 yrs ago.

Firangi AESA IMVHO using micro channel liquid cooling.

Indian UTTAM AESA could well be using QORVO parts for time to market issue.

Indian mini fab to make GaN is known priority to GoI

Hriday · Post by **Hriday** » 19 May 2023 20:57

On the recent news of Indian navy acquisition of 20+ L band Lanza 3D radars. Doesn't India had an indigenously developed L band radar for use in ABM purposes?

News reports say ToT is involved. Is it for maintenance or radar software related ?

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 19 May 2023 21:36

Hriday wrote:On the recent news of Indian navy acquisition of 20+ L band Lanza 3D radars. Doesn't India had an indigenously developed L band radar for use in ABM purposes?

News reports say ToT is involved. Is it for maintenance or radar software related ?

I too ma wondering what is so great about this INDRA radar compared to our desi

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 20 Jun 2023 08:02

Can't find the radar thread.

IDRW, is reporting that DRDO is developing an Air cooled AESA for UAV and UCAV.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 20 Jun 2023 19:23

Pratyush wrote:Can't find the radar thread.

It was on page 2 of the forum. I moved your post to this thread.

Pratyush wrote:IDRW, is reporting that DRDO is developing an Air cooled AESA for UAV and UCAV.

It is IDRW. So take it with a sack of salt.

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 21 Jun 2023 16:34

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/dfi_pk/status/13793 ... 71488?s=20 ---> Multi-static Passive Radar from BEL Thales Systems Ltd. The radar doesn't emit itself but detects targets passively by picking up reflections bouncing off aerial targets from commercial emitters like FM / DVB-T, etc. Pics credit to owners.

https://twitter.com/dfi_pk/status/13794 ... 60481?s=20 ---> Multi-static Passive radar from BEL Thales Systems Limited is anti-stealth, because the radar involves lower frequency bands and multi-static type scattering. Also passive radars cannot be detected, allowing for covert operation.

Can we infer that we are developing a bi-static radar ?

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 06 Aug 2023 15:19

https://twitter.com/BEL_CorpCom/status/ ... 5065774080

The lighter version of Weapon Locating Radar, SWATHI Mountains, developed by BEL & LRDE has been inducted into Indian Army. Lt Gen. J B Chaudhari, SM, VSM, Dy Chief of Army Staff (CD&S) flagged off the RADAR system which will bolster Army's battlefield surveillance capabilities.

srin · Post by **srin** » 08 Aug 2023 17:24

Explained: The Indian Navy's New Game-Changing Radar

On 31 July, a Hyderabad-based company named Astra Microwave Products Pvt. Ltd. issued its annual report. Buried in dry text, under the heading “Major projects due for delivery during the year 2023-24”, was an innocuous line item: “6 Mtrs S-Band AAAU for strategic Naval application of DRDO”.

Astra Microwave’s new radar is a major step forward in this challenging domain.

With a diameter of 6 meters, it is a whopper!

Even the Americans, whose strategic planners have been screaming for a 6-meter antenna for years, have been restricted to a 4.3-meter radar because that is all the deckhouse of an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer can accommodate.

In technical terms, this radar is called an AAAU – an Active Antenna Array Unit.

Very little information is available about it in the public domain (and rightly so), but we do know that it has been installed on the Indian Navy’s secretive testbed, the INS Anvesh (which was commissioned into the Navy in a low-key ceremony early last year).

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Sep 2023 00:32

https://twitter.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1 ... 23858?s=20 ---> Tripartite MoU was signed for the production of UTTAM AESA Radar for LCA Mk1A between LRDE, HAL & Industry partners on 07 July 2023. Tejas Mk1A with Uttam is a step closer to reality.

Barath · Post by **Barath** » 04 Sep 2023 19:39

Iirc, the ToT was completed to hal 26 Aug 2022, and the MoU for ToT feb 2022.

So a paper/legal milestone ?

https://delhidefencereview.com/2022/09/ ... rder-size/

https://twitter.com/vaimaniki/status/13 ... 1w7ZA&s=19

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 04 Sep 2023 20:58

I was unable to read the swarajya article (read it once, but now does not allow me). My speculation (and I have written it few times before)

Radar was one of the 5 important items that had to be mastered with LCA 1)airframe/composites - done, 2) Design/unstable config, flight laws- done 3) Avionics-done, (and by its nature becomes obsolete every few years)items, 4)radar - done (it was one of the last item to be done); 5)Engine - still some distance away.

If you look at this bigger context, we were failing in radars until 2010s(or later). First 40 LCAs have ELTA 2032. We wanted 2052, but was opposed by western powers and Israel could not sell it. Somewhere that changed and 2052 became available (perhaps because we made enough progress to make our own aesa FCR, 2052 was offered as a time tested strategy, India will buy it and drop its indigenous effort (for lack of money, Chandigarh lobby etc.). However, there were more radars needed (for SAM, BFR, Awacs...) and India continued its march with AESA. Mostly GaAs based. Each of these being govt entities, the research and work by one feeded and helped the other agencies (unlike in West what Lockheed develops may not be available to Boeing and they have to double the cost to develop it two times).

But the march did not stop here. GaN offered twice better capability than GaAs and is like the latest tech available, just few years old. To keep things in perspective, a normal MMR kind of Radar was developed in West by 1970s, we joined the party in 2000sand failed (our MMR for LCA was a failure that is why we went for 2032). Now GaN based FCR radar - US,China and India have it. Russia/France/Europe does not yet have them. This is how far we have come.

Why US is not deploying GaN based radar (while China is) in huge numbers - They have just upgraded most of their fighters or ordered new ones with GaAs tech. They have invested high in R&D, manufacturing, maturity etc. and economically it is not very wise to shift to a better tech. China has no constraint like it, it is making new planes and putting GaN radar. We should also plan (if GaN based radar is ready, looks like it should be in 1-2 years) to shift to this and not put GaAs based radar and then later upgrade to GaN it may not be economically feasible. In our case the good news is that same firm (e.g. astra micro) makes both these radars. A new contract have to be executed to account for price difference etc., but we should put the latest Tech in our plane.
The new Tech is also God send for planes like SU30MKI where more power is not available. The new Tech does the same work in half the power.

rrao · Post by **rrao** » 05 Sep 2023 16:19

how many of the modes did UTTAM demonstrate....can somebody answer if its not confidential !!! it reminds me of MMR saga...where HAL and LRDE took ride of each other...mostly by LRDE as they were handling signal processors!!!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Nov 2023 20:21

Don't know the source of the image, but FWIW...

https://x.com/Rethik_D/status/1724662047806570977?s=20 ---> It's confirmed! GaN-based AESA radar for all our upcoming fighter jets!

- LCA MK2
- AMCA
- Su-30UPG
- TEDBF

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 18 Nov 2023 07:33

Why not lca mk1a? The 40 th plane that will have uttam is at least 3-4 years away, enough time to qualify a gan based arsa for it. Let’s skip a generation by moving to gan based uttam. GaAs based uttam is so passé.
Why? Because we can. Unlike west we have not yet negated very high on gaAs based infra that we have to built certain number to recoup the cost(unless we have)

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Dec 2023 23:40

iDEX-DIO signs 300th contract for Defence Innovation in the niche field of Design and Development of Advanced Gallium Nitride Semiconductors
https://www.thedefencematrix.in/idex-di ... conductors
02 Dec 2023

Image © Kuntal Biswas

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 20 Aug 2024 21:37

VIDEO: https://x.com/DefSysCI/status/1825908881098174924 ---> DRDO's Director General for Electronics and Communication Systems, Dr. B.K. Das has confirmed the existence of project Virupaksha (AESA Radar for Su-30MKI upgrade). Interestingly, he also hinted towards the inclusion of an antenna repositioner as part of the radar.

The Virupaksha radar (a next-generation radar system) that is being developed by DRDO for the upgrade of Su-30MKI fighter jets will be a steering AESA Radar (Like Captor-E of Eurofighter Typhoon). Both Beam and Radar will be steering, providing larger side on coverage.

Picture: Eurofighter Typhoon for representation.

neeraj · Post by **neeraj** » 20 Aug 2024 21:53

^^^^
I wonder how much we are ready for the inhouse deep Su30MKI upgrade when building blocks like Radar are in R&D phase. Nothing will get done for the next 8-10 years.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 20 Aug 2024 21:54

Since LCAMK1A is delayed, we can use the time to put GaN based radar (rather than GaAs based). The only thing that should stop this happening is that GaN radar will not be ready by the time we need to put the GaAs radar). We jump a generation and also the power need would be half, heat sink half and range perhaps more, almost no downside, except for tech being not mature.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 21 Aug 2024 09:34

Doubt if that will happen. Tejas Mk1a already will fly with 2 AESA types & we saw how long the certification of Uttam took

GaN & Steerable radars might be tested extensively on Mk1a's but will be incorporated only in Tejas Mk2, AMCA & the Sukhois

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 15 Sep 2024 03:09

Below is part of a twitter thread from a twitter user who went to the IDAX (Indian Defence Aviation Exposition) at Jodhpur.

Representative picture of Uttam below (from Kuntal Biswas) indicates that the # of TR modules is 784.

https://x.com/Tanishq_bafila/status/1835002549583462488 ---> News regarding UTTAM AESA. Will have close to 1,000 TR modules for the Tejas Mk1A.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 15 Sep 2024 03:11

Below is part of a twitter thread from a twitter user who went to the IDAX (Indian Defence Aviation Exposition) at Jodhpur.

https://x.com/Tanishq_bafila/status/1835002549583462488 ---> Uttam Radar for Rafale M.

Q: Is it true that the Navy wanted UTTAM AESA for Rafale M?

A: He replied, "Yes, it is true. But no one gives source codes, even if we pay more. Everyone passes old technology, at least one generation behind. Even we won't give the technology to anyone."

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 06 Feb 2025 22:05

https://x.com/shreedharsingh9/status/18 ... 9077081368 ---> DRDO Passive Coherent Location Radar (PCLR).

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 06 Feb 2025 23:31

Made in India VHF radar can detect stealth aircraft, bolster air defense

India has introduced an advanced Very High Frequency (VHF) radar to enhance its air defense capabilities, particularly for detecting stealth aircraft. Officially launched on January 29, 2025,at BEL-Ghaziabad, this cutting-edge system boosts surveillance and security efforts.

This powerful radar system offers several advantages:

* Constant Airspace Monitoring: It continuously scans the skies, improving detection of stealth aircraft, including advanced fighters, from long distances.

* High-Precision Tracking: Advanced technology ensures accurate identification and monitoring of aerial threats.

* Effective Against Stealth Technology: Operating in the VHF band (30 to 300 MHz), the radar's longer wavelengths help detect aircraft designed to evade traditional radars.

* Extended Range: It can track targets beyond 100 nautical miles, providing early warnings against potential threats. While specific detection capabilities remain classified, it significantly reduces the effectiveness of stealth aircraft.

* Mobility and Strategic Advantage: Built for rapid deployment, the radar is mounted on two TATRA vehicles, making it easy to relocate and adapt to changing security needs. Its mobility ensures better coverage and flexibility in various terrains.

Advancing Defence Technology

This new radar marks a significant step forward in self-reliance for defense systems. It strengthens India's ability to track modern stealth aircraft and improves overall airspace security.

The radar will be featured at Aero India 2025, offering defense experts and industry leaders a firsthand look at its capabilities. The event will highlight India’s progress in radar technology and its expanding role in advanced defense systems.

This next-generation VHF radar is a game-changer for India’s defence.

With stealth detection, continuous surveillance, and fast deployment, it plays a key role in securing national airspace. Its ability to track advanced stealth aircraft makes it an essential tool in modern warfare.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 07 Feb 2025 18:57

" While specific detection capabilities remain classified, it significantly reduces the effectiveness of stealth aircraft."

interesting !

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Feb 2025 21:24

https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/1888544194664218751 ---> I have fallen in love all over again. When Virupaksha enters operational service, it will be the radar with the highest detection tracking range. Far exceeding the performance of APG-82 and 85 on F-35 Lightning II, APG-77(v)1 on Raptor and APG-82(v)1 on F-15EX. It's a beast.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 12 Feb 2025 21:03

Meet Dr BK Das, DRDO's idea man & bundle of energy, who spearheads electronics cluster