Bharat Rakshak

darshhan wrote:My advice for all PIOs living in US including Hindus and Sikhs. Arm yourself. Devote sometime to firearms training. Get a Concealed carry permit if you can( A huge majority of states in US allow this). Develop a Combat/Warrior mindset.

Such kind of incidents are only going to increase in future in America. And Indian origin people are among the most vulnerable groups because they are the ultimate soft targets. Be prepared.

Try to ensure whenever such incident happens again, you should not depend on cops to take out the shooter.

Stay sharp, stay safe.

RIP to our fallen brothers.

Carl wrote:Some grassroots relationship management is needed for Indians in the US - not just some lobbying on the Hill. Generally these folks see Indian immigrants as harmless guys, but resent that they are taking away a lot of jobs. The other stereotype about Indians is that the Indian customer will "Jew you down", i.e., they are miserly makhi-choos and clannish types who will bargain with you to death. But still they have far less hatred for Indians than others like Mexicans and Moslems - once they know the difference. Many of the hard right types consider India a potential ally. Hopefully the US Sikhs will use this opportunity to identify themselves and educate the American people on this. And they truly do need to make it clear that they are Indian at this point, if they aren't doing it already.

BobbyP wrote:Over the last 25 years or so, I have noticed that the Sikh community in North America has socially withdrawn from the other Indian communities, at least in large cities and towns where Sikhs have sizable populations. I would like to urge all our Sikh brothers to come back and join the rest of us Indians back to form one strong and powerful community.

sanjaykumar wrote:And of course those pictures of phreedom phiters adorning some gurdiwaras. North Americans may be stupid but they are not that stupid.

KJoishy wrote:Sikhs in Punjab have put aside their hard feelings and integrated back into India. There's almost no animosity and Khalistan is non existent. But the Sikhs who came to the US and Canada in the 70s and 80s still harbor those bad feelings and brainwash their kids against the Indian Govt.

KJoishy wrote:...I saw children's drawings of Satwant Singh, Kehar and Beant Singh with "martyr" written all over them and drawings of a noose and other hate messages towards the Indian Government.

Carl wrote:

KJoishy wrote:Sikhs in Punjab have put aside their hard feelings and integrated back into India. There's almost no animosity and Khalistan is non existent. But the Sikhs who came to the US and Canada in the 70s and 80s still harbor those bad feelings and brainwash their kids against the Indian Govt.

That's because in India there is constant people-to-people contact. But in NA there isn't. This is the time to change that.

KJoishy wrote:

sanjaykumar wrote:And of course those pictures of phreedom phiters adorning some gurdiwaras. North Americans may be stupid but they are not that stupid.

This was in 2009, not 1985. I've just been to 1 Gurdwara, so this might be an anomaly but I was taken aback.

Sikhs in Punjab have put aside their hard feelings and integrated back into India. T

The irony of this situation is that Sikhism is generally known as the warrior religion, they have been persecuted since the 15th century when Mughals (muslims) ruled over India. They gave up their lives (read about the ten gurus) because they would not convert to Islam. The founder, guru Nanak, walked from india to Iraq preaching equality of the human race, which eventually transformed into a new religion (Sikhism). It was a subculture of India that went against social Norms, like the caste system and injustice to females (which included, but not limited to, throwing the wife on the cremating body of the husband because that was her "duty". The reason most Sikhs have "Singh" as their last name is because it omitted any correlation to the caste system, as last names indicated your caste. Singh comes from Simha, a Sanskrit word for lion - it suited Sikhs because they had a "natural mane", i.e unshorn hair, and fearless mentalities like that of a lion. This was adopted by the tenth guru, Gobind Singh, who created an equal brotherhood to defend humanity, mainly from religious persecution. He himself was an aristocrat who lost his 4 sons to the Mughals, who confined the youngest son in a brick wall for not converting into Islam. His mother and middle son were locked on a tall tower, where they suffered from the elements, why? Because they didn't want to convert to islam. And eventually his whole family was killed and he created the "Khalsa - or Sikh brotherhood". So, a religion was officially created and centuries go on, with a little bickering here and there. They number into the millions and in 1984 another dent is put into the community when Indira Ghandi, Indian prime minister, sent troops to storm the Golden Temple, because separatists wanted their own Sikh nation, where Sikhism would be recognized and not just "another branch of Hinduism" - which I should mention was notarized by the predominant Hindu government of India. So her Sikh bodyguards backfire, literally, by assassinating her. This led to nation-wide anti-Sikh riots, (now keep in mind, that only a small state, Punjab, is predominately Sikh). Sikh were burned alive and Sikh's homes/businesses were burned to the ground by Hindu mobsters. The Indian government had a two-day media black-out, so the numbers of Sikhs killed is not official. But the India government has reported about 10-20,000 deaths. A record kept by a human-rights defender added another several thousands to the "official-count", meaning that anywhere from 50,000-100,000 Sikhs were killed or went missing from 1984-1990 due to government-organized attacks. So due to this reason, many Sikhs fled to Canada, America, England, Singapore and other nations alike, seeking political-asylum, hence the large amount of Sikhs around the world (well, this added to the fact, but Sikhs have always been persecuted by the India government). So, the new millennium starts, and everything seems smooth and then BAM! (no pun intended) 9/11 strikes and hate crimes flood the Sikh community, this was a lot worse for Sikhs than Muslims, because Sikhs looked more foreign, and hence "like arabs", because of their turbans and beard. Which I can see, because if you look at Osama Bin Laden and a Sikh man with a turban, (sorry I think it's kind of cool that a guy with a turban plays in the NFL), it's hard to tell the difference, without having previous knowledge. So following this, a Sikh gas station owner in Arizona was shot and killed by some lunatic who thought he was being a "patriot" and killing Muslims (wrong religion, but a wrong motive overall).. And now this happens. What I don't understand is that a group, whose motive has been to abolish the caste system and create equality; ones that "open all-doors" to their temples because a belief is embedded that God is not particular to a group but to humanity overall are targeted because people do not choose to learn about who they are. A simple Google search of "who are the guys that mostly wear turbans, or things on their head,etc..." reveals that Sikhs are the predominate race, especially in the West, that wear turbans and keep beards. This creates angerbut not against "white people" or Americans, but against the media who ignore the fact that they need to showcase individual identities and not focus on Islam and Christianity. In fact, when Balbir Singh Sodhi was killed, the media reported it as "Arab man shot and killed at Gas station", which was later corrected when the Sikh Coalition reported to different agencies that "look guys, you see a turban, don't do your research and try to get your news corporation's word out first, but it's causing harm to our community".

Source: Am a Sikh, well an atheist, but I choose to keep my hair long for spiritual religions that aren't attached to God and practice yoga and meditation.

P.S: There is a huge community of "Gore Sikh" or White Sikh, that converted in the 1970's, mainly because the Sikh ideology attached to nature and meditation attracted many hippies.

habal wrote: He served at Fort Bliss, Texas, in the psychological operations unit in 1994, and was last stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, attached to the psychological operations unit. The details of his discharge were not immediately clear.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -Page.html

jamwal wrote: Before pouncing on me, please check your racist bias against 'redneck' whites.

jamwal wrote:No sir.
....
I was just surprised how speculation about Khalistani link was a big no-no while the average American Joe six-pack (or whatever it's called )was being made a convenient scape goat by every one.
I may very well be wrong, but this almost dhimmified gushing praise of Sikh community is a bit out of place due to the points I've mentioned in this thread and much more which I'd rather not. Let sleeping dogs lie.

abhishek_sharma wrote:>> I was just surprised how speculation about Khalistani link was a big no-no ...

All kinds of speculation are a big no-no. How many Sikhs in Wisconsin agree with Khalistanis? Any numbers?

SBajwa wrote:This is a perfect time to declare from Akal Takht that Sikhs in USA should discard kirpan and end mass apply to get license to carry a concealed fire arm.

jamwal wrote: How many discussions in this sub-forum are based on cut and dried numbers like you asked for ? Any figures ?

Carl wrote:

SBajwa wrote:This is a perfect time to declare from Akal Takht that Sikhs in USA should discard kirpan and end mass apply to get license to carry a concealed fire arm.

Exactly my thoughts SBajwa ji. Training in firearms, licensed possession and proud display (along with positive engagement with the larger community) would be the perfect advertisement of Sikhism, and without doubt will draw the respect of fellow-Americans once they ask and are told the dharmic reasons and history behind it.

ShauryaT wrote:Shedding a tear for the dharmics killed. Request that this discussion initiated by BobbyP be clamped down. It is in bad taste, ignorant and biased.

habal wrote: Ex-army and that too worked for a very specialized division.

He served at Fort Bliss, Texas, in the psychological operations unit in 1994, and was last stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, attached to the psychological operations unit. The details of his discharge were not immediately clear.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -Page.html

SBajwa wrote:This is a perfect time to declare from Akal Takht that Sikhs in USA should discard kirpan and end mass apply to get license to carry a concealed fire arm. Had even one person at Gurdwara carrying a good weapon this might not have happen. Guru Gobind singh told the to carry kirpan in 1699 and now in 2012 we must carry modern automatic weapons to defend ourselves. Sikhs have become just like Hindus of 1699 where today kirpan is as much a symbol as janeu is for Brahmins. No difference between Hindus and Sikhs what so ever at all. Sikhi is/was a reform movement where to protect Dharma(righteousness) kirpan is raised, now it is a impotent as other dharmic symbols.

nachiket wrote:This is exactly the convoluted logic used by americans to support their current gun laws. I have heard similar arguments after the Colorado theater shooting - that if the people inside had had guns themselves, things would have been better. That is a fallacy. Instead of one shooter shooting at people in the dark, you would have had 4-5 insufficiently trained shooters trying to defend themselves in the dark by shooting at any location they see gun flashes coming from with other people caught in the crossfire. It would have been an even bigger disaster. Same with the Gurudwara shooting. If people inside had guns, there would have been one military trained attacker and several untrained people shooting at each other in the initial chaos (where nobody knows how many and who the attackers are) with unarmed people caught in the middle. I guarantee you there would have been even more casualties.

And before you say it, practicing at the local gun range does not make you skilled in urban close-quarter combat. There is a reason why police and army commandos train so hard in it.

9:40PM BST 06 Aug 2012

Firefighters and police were called to a blaze at the Islamic Center in Joplin, Missouri – where around 125 members of the local Muslim community pray – at around 3:40am (0840 GMT), according to the FBI's Kansas City office.

"The building was completely destroyed," said Sharon Rhine, a spokesman for the local Jasper County Sheriff's office. No one was wounded in the incident.

"No one was apprehended. They don't want to call it a hate crime without information or knowledge of having someone to charge," Rhine said.

Monday's fire followed an attack on July 4, when an unidentified suspect threw a petrol bomb onto the roof of the same mosque, causing minor damage.

The mosque's surveillance cameras captured an image of the assailant's face, and the FBI offered a $15,000 (£9,600) reward for information related to the July incident, but no one has been apprehended.
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"It does seem coincidental that there was a fire a month ago and there was another one this month," Rhine said.

FBI spokesman Bridget Patton said both incidents occurred in the middle of the night, but said the FBI would "wait to determine the cause of the fire."

"If it is determined that the attack was intentional, we will conduct and investigation to see if there is any correlation between this fire and that of July 4," Patton added.

Local community members say this is one of a series of attacks on their mosque since it was founded in 2007.

"Since the establishment of the mosque, we've been constantly under attack," said former mosque board member Navid Zaidi, 47. "Our sign has been burnt ... Our mailbox was smashed multiple times. We had bullets shot at our sign."

Zaidi says the local community is lucky the attack occurred in the early morning, when no one was there.

"During Ramadan is a time when more people attend the services. We are fortunate that no one was hurt today," he said, referring to the ongoing Muslim holy month of fasting and prayer.

Zaidi complained that no suspects have been apprehended in the month since the July 4 attack. "I don't recall in my 27 years in the US, ever seeing perpetrators apprehended," he said.

Dangerous idea. Keep in mind that you are suggesting this in a non-Dharmic land. Just with Kripans, Sikhs are being confused as terrorists. Make them carry large guns, you make this classification easy.

nachiket wrote: This is exactly the convoluted logic used by americans to support their current gun laws. I have heard similar arguments after the Colorado theater shooting - that if the people inside had had guns themselves, things would have been better. That is a fallacy. Instead of one shooter shooting at people in the dark, you would have had 4-5 insufficiently trained shooters trying to defend themselves in the dark by shooting at any location they see gun flashes coming from with other people caught in the crossfire. It would have been an even bigger disaster. Same with the Gurudwara shooting. If people inside had guns, there would have been one military trained attacker and several untrained people shooting at each other in the initial chaos (where nobody knows how many and who the attackers are) with unarmed people caught in the middle. I guarantee you there would have been even more casualties.

And before you say it, practicing at the local gun range does not make you skilled in urban close-quarter combat. There is a reason why police and army commandos train so hard in it.

SBajwa wrote:Deterrence!!

Why do Sikhs use to wear a real kirpan? Because Mughals forbade all non-muslims to carry it!!

Why do Sikhs Wear a turban? Because Mughals forbade it for any non-nobles (non-zamindar, non-nawab) to wear it.

Thus in modern times just a display of the weapon on a Sikh is a big deterrence just like in ancient times.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

America hero Lieutenant Brian Murphy. The Sikh nation salutes you and prays for your quick recovery.

Please take a few minutes to write a letter or email, or send a card to Lieutenant Brian Murphy who was shot multiple times before finally putting down the gunman. You can mail to:

Oak Creek Police Department
ATTN: Lt. Brian Murphy
301 West Ryan Rd
Oak Creek, WI 53154

Email: [email protected]



Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

NEW DELHI—Sikhs in India reacted with outrage and grief to Sunday's shooting at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin, with many expressing concern that the incident is evidence of growing intolerance against the religious community in the U.S.Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, himself a Sikh, condemned what he called a "senseless act of violence" and conveyed condolences to the victims' families. "India stands in solidarity with all the peace-loving Americans who have condemned this violence," he said in a statement, adding that he hopes U.S. authorities will ensure "that such violent acts are not repeated in the future.".Avtar Singh, president of the trust that runs one of Sikhism's holiest shrines, the Golden Temple in the northern city of Amritsar, said the temple was planning a three-day prayer ceremony in honor of the victims. "We are still in shock," he said.At the New Delhi gurudwara, many devotees said they feared Sunday's incident was a hate crime. Harinder Singh, 58, said this type of violence happens "mainly because people [in the U.S.] don't understand what the turban is and why Sikhs wear them.""It is ironical for such incidents to happen at the holy site of a gurudwara where people come to pray for a long life," he added.