ernest wrote: ↑03 Dec 2024 07:41
My qn - what serious capability will be added through the subs being considered for P75I, that additional Scorpenes with DRDO AIP and low hanging upgrades (preferably indigenous) will not?
A valid question to ask if we end up with the Navantia boat.
When the bids are opened, the Navantia boat will be cheaper and the Spanish will be more open to transferring key technologies of the boat. But that is when the tussle will begin, because the Navy wants the TKMS boat i.e. the Type 212CD. And the Germans will not be that forthcoming with the technology aboard the Type 212CD. But the Navy wants the latest and greatest, so technology transfer can go take a hike.
If the MoD wins the battle, I don't see what game changer is present in the S-80 Plus submarine that will trump the three new Scorpenes that are coming with the DRDO AIP. Reportedly, the Navy did not want to wait for DRDO's promises and wanted a "proven" AIP. Remember that word
proven.
Navantia has reportedly proven that with the AIP system (called BEST) being integrated on the S-83 Cosme Garcia. Now here is where the twist comes. The German AIP has yet to be proven on a boat that is the displacement (i.e. tonnage) being offered in the P-75I contest. The AIP system displayed to the Indian Navy evaluators was from the earlier Type 212A boat. But that was considered compliant enough for the evaluators and TKMS was allowed to sail through. And this is a fact confirmed by the Indian Navy Chief himself at his recent press conference --->
viewtopic.php?p=2635036#p2635036
If this is not hypocrisy, I do not know what else can be. DRDO AIP is not proven, so we want foreign AIP. But one of the foreign AIP systems is also not proven, but it is foreign. So that is okay. Import Pasand? You bet it is.
From a pure technical perspective, the Type 212CD is the better boat to get i.e. latest and greatest. But once again, best (Type 212CD) has proven to be the enemy of good enough (improved Scorpene with DRDO AIP).
We could have continued with the Scorpene line, but the geniuses decided against it.
ernest wrote: ↑03 Dec 2024 07:41I guess the Scorpene info leak is not that serious, else 3 more boats would not be considered.
Spot on.
ernest wrote: ↑03 Dec 2024 07:41Additionally, even if we go for new boats through P75I, wouldn't it be sensible to keep the Scorpene line open with additional orders given the large requirement of additional subs in the coming decade.
Another scenario, we keep churning out Scorpenes to maintain fleet strength, while going full steam on indigenous SSK, and large UUVs.
I guess there are better options than what we are going for currently.
Naval Group has been on the Indian Navy's case since 2013 to build more Scorpenes. But the Navy insisted on the P-75I contest. The Navy has said that the P-75I program will be the last imported submarine, before they move on to the Project 76 SSK program. That is a joke on so many levels, I don't know where to begin.
Navantia got the Scorpene design and is building four boats for the Spanish Navy. Now they are offering that design to India and other customers. We got the Scorpene design, but are in the midst of the P-75I contest in which Navantia is participating.
Try to make sense of this madness.
