INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 18 May 2011 15:33

Indian naval personnel killed at Vizag dockyard

None of the ships or subs are damaged.

bodhi · Post by **bodhi** » 18 May 2011 18:12

Second Nucular sub in the making as per the NewsX reports! This is new and a very encouraging news...

A hugh loss for the country after losing 3 senior officers. RIP.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 18 May 2011 18:15

Encouraging but not new

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 May 2011 19:56

Have they released the names of the dead?

RIP

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 18 May 2011 20:00

http://ibnlive.in.com/generalnewsfeed/n ... 90514.html

Commander Ashwini Kumar (47)
Lt Commander Ranbir Ranjan (30)
Master Chief Madhu Babu (30)

Master Chief Rajesh (in his early 30s) died at the hospital. The first three died instantly.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 18 May 2011 20:40

http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2011/05/n ... ident.html

Cdr Ashwani Kumar, Age 47
Cdr Ranbir Ranjan, Age 30*
MCSWA Madhu Babu, Age 31
SWA 3 Rajesh, Age 30

*That might be a DDM error. Ranbir Ranjan is reported to be a Lt Cdr from other news sources.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 18 May 2011 22:58

chackojoseph wrote:Indian naval personnel killed at Vizag dockyard

None of the ships or subs are damaged.

Very sad. These accidents are depressing. Loss of valuable lives for nothing, absolutely nothing.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 19 May 2011 01:39

TV REPORT: Indian Boomer Safe After Dockyard Accident

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 May 2011 02:19

They said it was weld failure in the dockyard gate that led to the accident.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 19 May 2011 02:47

DNA Report:

India’s first indigenous nuclear submarine — the INS Arihant — that was scheduled to start final trial on Thursday — got off to an inauspicious start when four naval personnel were killed as it attempted to dock at Vishakhapatnam on Wednesday.

The incident happened around 11am, when the caisson (temporary docking gate) collapsed, killing two officers and two sailors. Commanders Ashwani Kumar, 47, and Ranbir Ranjan, 30, and sailors Madhu Babu, 31, and Rajesh, 30, suffered head injuries when the gate collapsed. They succumbed to their injuries later.

The navy has ordered a Board of Inquiry into the incident.

Naval constructors and technical personnel were working on the caisson, which is around 50-60 feet high, when it collapsed because the valves of the dry dock gate of the Ship Building Centre malfunctioned.

INS Arihant was launched in 2009 and was undergoing criticality certification tests before being put to sea. She was being readied to move out for other trials before being commissioned.

Last December, Naval chief, Admiral Nirmal Verma had said that the submarine would be operational for deterrence patrols by 2012, thereby adding one more leg to India’s nuclear capability. Once the submarine was operational India would have the capability to launch nuke missiles from land, air and sea.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 19 May 2011 02:55

DDM at it again!

Arihant was right outside, it was the second nuke boat that was in.

Secondly, the gate malfunctioning has nothing to do with the submarine. JEEZ!!!!!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 May 2011 03:09

Hindu report. Coherent as expected....

Four Navy men killed as docking gate collapses
B. Madhu Gopal

VISAKHAPATNAM: Four Naval personnel, including two officers, were killed when the docking gate collapsed in the ship-building centre inside the Naval Dockyard here on Wednesday morning.

The docking gates are meant to intake sea water into the dry dock. “The victims were sitting on the gate and supervising the operation when the accident occurred, resulting in the death of three Navy personnel and severe injuries to a sailor who died later at the hospital,” according to Commander T.L.P. Babu, official spokesman of the Navy.

The names of the victims are Commander Aswani Kumar, 47, Lt. Commander Ranbheer Ranjan, 30, Master Chief (Ship Wright) Madhu Babu, 31, and Chief Ship Wright Rajesh, 30, who died at the hospital.

There are two docks in the Matsya Dock. In the first, there was a ship, and a nuclear submarine was under construction in the other. The tragedy occurred when a new gate was being tested around 9.30 a.m.

The officials and staff were sitting on the huge gate, around six feet wide and 30 metres high. The welding gave way all of a sudden, and the gate broke into two pieces.

The gate that collapsed was a partition gate in the Matsya Dock meant to accommodate more than one ship at a time. The gate was co-designed by the Navy and the Indian Register of Shipping and offloaded to a contractor for construction.

It is learnt that the first trial was conducted a few days ago at a depth of seven metres when leaks were noticed.

arunsrinivasan · Post by **arunsrinivasan** » 19 May 2011 07:08

^^ Sorry if this is a stupid question. Why were the Officers sitting on the huge gate when it was being tested. Shouldn't safety procedures indicate that they should maintain a safe distance? Or is the report wrong? Even if they were not sitting on the gate, they were obviously too close to the gate.

saip · Post by **saip** » 19 May 2011 07:13

If the gate is 6' wide I don't think they were 'sitting' on it. It may be part of the testing protocols that they were walking on the gate. This is a catastrophic failure of the gate and I don't think anyone expected it to fail. Perhaps, they were there to check for proper fit, leakages etc of the gate. The contractor probably had no quality controls or took shortcuts.

sum · Post by **sum** » 19 May 2011 08:20

Another report from Deccan herald:
Vizag mishap kills 4 Navy men

In what may have a long-term impact on the Indian nuclear submarine programme, four Navy personnel died in an accident in the high-security Visakhapatnam naval dockyard where indigenous nuclear submarines are being developed.

The fatal accident occurred because of the sudden collapse of a large docking gate which crashed and fell on the four, who were standing atop it, from a height of 50 feet.
While three of them were crushed to death almost immediately, the fourth succumbed to injuries later. Of the four, three were in their thirties. A board of inquiry has been ordered to find out the cause of the accident.

According to the Eastern Naval Command sources, Commander Ashwani Kumar and Ranbir Ranjan, and sailor Rajesh died on the spot, while severely injured sailor Madhu Babu died at the Kalyani naval hospital later in the day.

Sources at the naval headquarters in New Delhi categorically denied the presence of Indian nuclear powered submarine Arihant-I or Arihant-II in the dockyard when the accident took place. “The accident had no impact on any of the activities in other sections of the dock,” a Navy spokesperson said without naming the secret submarine.

Moreover, the spokesperson denied injury to any other personnel even though there were unconfirmed reports suggesting 13 others were reportedly injured in the accident and undergoing treatment at the naval hospital.

Navy officers said the four were involved in testing the sluice gate at the dry dock when the gate collapse. The official version, however, is different from eyewitness accounts according to which the mishap occurred at around 9 am when the naval personnel were attending to repair work at the floodgates leading to the dry dock and some of the weak joints of the gates. Smashing one of the gates to pieces, sea water gushed into the dry dock pit of 60 feet, crushing the Navy staff under its pressure.

India’s first nuclear submarine — INS Arihant — was launched by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s wife Gursharan Kaur on July 26, 2009, for trial. The boomer is scheduled to be inducted next year while two others are under development.

The nuclear submarine completes the third leg of the nuclear triad, giving India retaliatory second strike capability on the sea. Arihant has a displacement of 6,000 tonnes and houses a 80 MWe pressurised water reactor as its main power source.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 19 May 2011 08:54

Unnecessary linkages.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 May 2011 09:02

RIP. somehow N-boats always seem to carry the aura of tragedy more than most...eg the russian sailors perishing on our akula.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 May 2011 10:28

It has nothing to do with subs etc. There is a court of inquiry and the risks that were not considered will come out. Most likely the contractor did shoddy welds and gave away. Recall the water has a triangular loading with max at the bottom of the gate. There was a report of leaks on a previous day.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 19 May 2011 10:37

One innocent Pooch, has the Arihant baby ventured out of it harbor confines and did some snorkelling? any news from Paanwalas? some sources say, Arihant was in the dock, some say no. any confirmation?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 19 May 2011 10:39

"... Sources at the naval headquarters in New Delhi categorically denied the presence of Indian nuclear powered submarine Arihant-I or Arihant-II... " This is the first time I am hearing about Arihant-II, I know I was on gardening leave but was trolling BR, how did we miss out on this new arrival?

sum · Post by **sum** » 19 May 2011 10:41

^^The gate crashed at the place where the Arihant-II is being constructed/assembled...

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 19 May 2011 11:23

I thought Arihant-II and other siblings were constructed by L&T in Hazira, Gujarat (Hulls) and towed/tranported to Vizag. Only their kitting with propulsion and electronics to be done in Vizag. which begs a question, how will the reactor be emplaced inside the hull if it is completed? i think we can leave it here without divulging too much info...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 May 2011 11:28

the reactor and its stuff would be packaged inside a hull section before that entire section is emplaced onto the drydock for welding and connecting to aft and fore sections. maybe that entire section with reactor inside is built from ground up and welded in kalpakkam while rest comes from L&T.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 19 May 2011 12:00

Singha wrote:the reactor and its stuff would be packaged inside a hull section before that entire section is emplaced onto the drydock for welding and connecting to aft and fore sections. maybe that entire section with reactor inside is built from ground up and welded in kalpakkam while rest comes from L&T.

Kalpakkam does not have any facility to dock a submarine and emplace a reactor. Maybe the reactor was shipped to Hazira and placed-in before the hull was welded shut.

MN Kumar · Post by **MN Kumar** » 19 May 2011 14:55

Singha wasnt talking of entire sub but just the reactor section being fabricated and welded in Kalpakkam. Even then I remember reading somewhere that the reactor was lowered into the sub in Vizag itself.

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 19 May 2011 15:50

Submarine construction is always modular in nature. 2-3m lengths of the hulls are fabricated first and these 2-5 of these pieces get welded to form a section. The sub is divided into many such sections. This section is then fitted out with the required stuff - piping, cabling, electrical and mechanical systems, cabins, some of the larger pieces of critical electronic equipment, etc. These fitted out sections are placed in the dry dock, aligned and then welded together one piece at a time starting from aft, mostly. The props are fitted in after the the whole sub is done. Only smaller items which can be takein through the conning tower or the torpedo tubes are fitted out later.

Similar process will be followed for Arihant and its siblings as well. News blurbs* had mentioned that fabricated hull sections for *two* subs had been barge towed from Hazira to SBC and *one more* was in the works. These bare hull sections will be fitted out in SBC and then joined together. Wrt to the reactor, it is most likely fitted out at SBC itself. Given that our sub reactors are sealed with fuel and refuelling will entail cutting open the hull, I doubt if we will have barge transported the fueled reactor section or even by road. Kalpakkam will ship out the reactor components semi-assembled to SBC with the fuel coming in from NFC separately and getting mated to the hull section before being joined to the rest of the sub.

*I remeber reading ToI news item in the inner pages 4-5 years ago which takled of section for two subs being transported and one more being fabricated. After that there wasn't any reference to this till date, hence I never referred to it.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 May 2011 02:21

So whats the real deal?
Name of the contraactor who did the welding? What was his experience?
How was the weld inspection performed?
Was there a slow run through of the system to check for leaks etc?

Was there a through design/production review before the installation?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 20 May 2011 11:13

Bringing the hull sections, reactor and fuel seprately and completing the process in SBC Vizag makes sense. Vizag has a strong presence in heavy engineering from its BHPV days. Also Hindusthan Shipyard is now wholly MODs and not having any pesky civilian ship construction crew. RIP to the deceased, condolences to the families. Godspeed in getting the gates/sluices/docks fixed up.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 21 May 2011 09:47

It is not modular in true sense. Normally modular means that entire "completed" sections. What i have gathered from open sources is that it is semi modular. L&T created hull and associated fitments. Subsequently, the inners were completed by others in naval Dock.

In discovery channel, they showed complete sections (of US Sub) being built seperate, include gadgets and then were joined togther. Similar with Scopenes.

For ATV, this was partially true. JMT.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 21 May 2011 13:23

Have previously posted, anyway, assembly of a submarine,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5mKzBFuKn4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJiItd23 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz_lOkM7 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaZXFs0H ... re=related

khwaja · Post by **khwaja** » 21 May 2011 13:46

[qoute]Also Hindusthan Shipyard is now wholly MODs and not having any pesky civilian ship construction crew. [/qoute]

Don't really agree with this statement. If someone thinks that a "military crew" makes a ship, its simply not so. Military shipyards also employ them as 'civilians'. (eg. : mazagaon, GRSE, etc.)

And the 'pesky' comment does not sount to be in good taste, afterall, all our designers (except the Naval Constructors), workmen and technicians, are civilians. What's so wrong in being a civilian?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 22 May 2011 03:30

khwaja wrote:[qoute]Also Hindusthan Shipyard is now wholly MODs and not having any pesky civilian ship construction crew. [/qoute]

Don't really agree with this statement. If someone thinks that a "military crew" makes a ship, its simply not so. Military shipyards also employ them as 'civilians'. (eg. : mazagaon, GRSE, etc.)

And the 'pesky' comment does not sount to be in good taste, afterall, all our designers (except the Naval Constructors), workmen and technicians, are civilians. What's so wrong in being a civilian?

Sirji, I meant Pesky "civilian Ship" construction crew and not civilian ship construction "pesky crew". this is precisely why the MOD took over the shipyard to ensure uninterrupted/uninterruptible ship building. I know that a military crew does not make ships, they only operate one. But here we have a crew and facilities which will not be double timing with civilian and military ship building... i reset my case here...

viveks · Post by **viveks** » 25 May 2011 11:54

Lisa wrote:Have previously posted, anyway, assembly of a submarine,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5mKzBFuKn4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJiItd23 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz_lOkM7 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaZXFs0H ... re=related

Gr8t post there. Good people serious about building a boat.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 25 May 2011 22:53

cheenum wrote:"... Sources at the naval headquarters in New Delhi categorically denied the presence of Indian nuclear powered submarine Arihant-I or Arihant-II... " This is the first time I am hearing about Arihant-II, I know I was on gardening leave but was trolling BR, how did we miss out on this new arrival?

Second one is not known as Arihant-II.
Reactor for A-1 had moved to Vizag one year before A-1 was unveiled. I just happened to watch on ECR it move under wraps and tightest ever security and camos from IGCAR gates. Realised much much later that cargo was meant for A-1.

Edited. Thanks
Rakesh ,You can delete that quote too if you wish.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 May 2011 22:55

Please do not post stuff, if you don't wish people to know more. You post something like this and people will be bound to ask.

Added Later: Done. Thanks Chanakya.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 May 2011 22:57

But interesting name no?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 May 2011 23:00

Indeed. BRFites will now be playing Jeopardy.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 25 May 2011 23:14

I wanna know

Mail me

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 25 May 2011 23:20

ramana wrote:

But interesting name no?

Yeah, Gita and Upanishads are inspiration in naming. Pigs don't understand easily what it means. Even to read Sanskrit is kufr , Tauba.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 May 2011 23:24

Was this posted? Note it was a meet the press event, judging by the pic and details thought the ATV stuff is from sources.
http://indiastrategic.in/topstories861.htm

According to well placed sources, while work on Arihant, the first nuclear submarine that was launched in 2010, was going on as scheduled, construction of the hull and sub components of the remaining two submarines was also underway. Considerable experience has been built from the development of Arihant, and the successive two submarines would be considerably more potent with more power and punch.

The Indian Navy also hopes to get the nuclear powered K-152 Nerpa from Russia around March 2011, and that would help Indian officers and seamen in gaining renewed experience in operating nuclear vessels. Indian crews are already training on board the vessel, an Akula-II class 12,000 tonne submarine.

Arihant itself is due to be commissioned in 2012.

Naval sources indicated that some of the Indian warships could be equipped with nuclear arms as part of India’s No-First-Use-But-Massive-Retaliation Policy.

“We have Arihant. It is there. We have a triad in place now, but we have to use it as effectively as possible. We will have Arihant going within two years. There is progress in the project, despite some initial hiccups,” the Naval Chief said without giving any details.

Self reliance through indigenization is absolutely essential, he significantly stressed.