Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - November 06, 2009

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 23 Dec 2009 11:35

asprinzl wrote: These are not religious people. They do this just to show off that they are different and they do that as a sign if defiance. There is nothing spiritual or holy there.

Quite true. That's exactly what happened in the article posted above. While the Tablighis prayed when the flight was at 30k feet, they ignored the athan(azaan) upon arrival at Lahore even as they were more eager to pick up their luggage and make a quick exit.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 23 Dec 2009 12:15

RayC wrote:I would indeed be very surprised if any Indian would support Pakistan against Indian interests!

I wonder what you'd make of the article below. Seems like there's people in India who are indeed batting for Pakistan.

Kashmir needs freedom from India - Arundhati Roy

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 23 Dec 2009 12:55

vera_k wrote:
RayC wrote:I would indeed be very surprised if any Indian would support Pakistan against Indian interests!
I wonder what you'd make of the article below. Seems like there's people in India who are indeed batting for Pakistan.

Kashmir needs freedom from India - Arundhati Roy

Of course, they are these oddballs. But I don't there are any such people on this Forum.

I did not open the link since it would be drivel.

I have been critical of her in this very forum for championing separatism in Kashmir!

Actually we require Freedom from her - the one book wonder!

kumarn · Post by **kumarn** » 23 Dec 2009 13:00

As long as she is free to spout whatever she does, we know we are a free society - a barometer of sorts, if you will.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 23 Dec 2009 13:05

kumarn wrote:As long as she is free to spout whatever she does, we know we are a free society - a barometer of sorts, if you will.

As Ashok Mitra, who is supposed to be an 'intellectual'!

He calls the IA as "Occupation Army"!

Very intellectual, I must say!

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 Dec 2009 13:45

...and India needs freedom from Arundathi Roy!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 23 Dec 2009 16:44

Pakistan has national animals to complement the national bird...

Secret US raids into Pakistan disclosed

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 23 Dec 2009 16:57

Toilet has twisted AR's statement. What she said is that India needs freedom from Kashmir as much as Kashmir needs freedom from India. This is true. Kashmir does NOT need freedom from India, hence India too needs no such freedom. Talking of fanatic barbarian terrorists and Geelani pigs & co. who are in Kashmir, not the territory, is another matter. They need to meet the fate of traitors. Kashmir has indelible links to India. It is upto these barbarians to decide where THEY want to go.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 23 Dec 2009 17:01

US govt-run radio fears coup in Pakistan

WASHINGTON: “Conditions in Pakistan have been ripening, like the mango fruit eaten there, for another military coup d’etat. The economy has slumped, corruption is rampant, and terrorism is endemic. People are losing faith in the officials they brought to power, US Congress funded Radio Free Liberty (RFE) said in a political commentary on Pakistan on Monday.

“This time, the soldiers may not have to use guns and tanks. They can bide their time until the elected government descends into chaos, then march in as national saviours. But the country’s judiciary is swiftly becoming a player to be reckoned with too.”

Worse, the Supreme Court has suggested that the government ask Switzerland to reopen a money-laundering investigation against him (dus Percenti) that was dropped on grounds of poor mental health.

Zardari’s administration has been reduced to threatening people for SMS texting jokes about its corruption with jail terms of up to 14 years.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 23 Dec 2009 17:04

Birathers-in-arms

SHAKTOI, Pakistan: A top Pakistani Taliban commander says he has sent thousands of fighters to neighbouring Afghanistan to rebuff incoming US troops, a claim that comes as a Pakistani army offensive is believed to have pushed many of his men to flee their main redoubt.

‘We would again become Pakistan's brother if Pakistan ends its support for America,’ he said.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 23 Dec 2009 17:11

Gerard wrote:Pakistan has national animals to complement the national bird...

Secret US raids into Pakistan disclosed

No sir, these are humans that have come to wipe out the animals (with apologies to the animal kingdom)

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 23 Dec 2009 17:15

anupmisra wrote:Birathers-in-arms

Oh they would not do that...the last time they did that Mushy-rat sent them by the thousands in trucks and passed GPS coordinates to the USAF who promptly wiped them all out - IIRC..

James B · Post by **James B** » 23 Dec 2009 18:08

ISI clearance mandatory for visit to Pak, foreigners told

ISLAMABAD – In a major policy decision, the government has made it mandatory for the Pakistani missions abroad to issue visas to foreigners intending to visit Pakistan only after their clearance from the country’s top intelligence agency ISI.
Well-placed government sources told TheNation on Friday that the move had come after thorough deliberations and in view of the security situation in the country. Sources privy to these developments maintained that the decision had been taken after reports of undesired activities of some foreigners especially, the Americans and foreign journalists.

what an irony!!!

. Its all about H&D.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 23 Dec 2009 18:55

anupmisra wrote:Birathers-in-arms

SHAKTOI, Pakistan: A top Pakistani Taliban commander says he has sent thousands of fighters to neighbouring Afghanistan to rebuff incoming US troops, a claim that comes as a Pakistani army offensive is believed to have pushed many of his men to flee their main redoubt.

‘We would again become Pakistan's brother if Pakistan ends its support for America,’ he said.

I guess this is PA's reply to Obama's surge!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 23 Dec 2009 19:47

Given the sheer number of Predator and Reaper drone flights over pakistan's western provinces, there must have been a few crashes there. Apparently as reported in that news story, the US sent in its forces to evacuate the crashed drone.
The pakistanis could get their hands on the sensors, the navigation suite and give this to tarrel than oceans fliend to reverse engineer.

Does anyone remember that takleef that the pakistanis were having over the Compound in the Sihala police training college campus just outside Pindi? There were several large containers stored in that compound with high walls and where pakistanis are not allowed in. There was mention of KRL being spied upon.
Turns out that there is a Uranium enrichment facility in the immediate neighborhood that the paksitanis have not declared to IAEA. Coupled with news reports of Pakistani uranium being taken out of pakistan to the US for disposal, and a certain picture emerges.

kidoman · Post by **kidoman** » 23 Dec 2009 20:06

vera_k wrote:
RayC wrote:I would indeed be very surprised if any Indian would support Pakistan against Indian interests!
I wonder what you'd make of the article below. Seems like there's people in India who are indeed batting for Pakistan.

Kashmir needs freedom from India - Arundhati Roy

She got an immediate appropriate response i remember, the shoe punch on her disgusting face.
Long Live that DU guy..

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 23 Dec 2009 20:19

anupmisra wrote:US govt-run radio fears coup in Pakistan

IIRC Ashphuck's term is ending Nov 2010. This is just opening volley.

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 23 Dec 2009 20:22

New taxes to cover expenses of military operations: FBR

LAHORE: Federal Board of Revenue (FBR) Chairman Sohail Ahmed has said that the government will have to impose new taxes on the people to meet expenditures incurred on the military operation against militants, a private TV channel reported on Tuesday. The FBR chief said the expenditures of the military operations were not included in the budget for the current fiscal year, adding that the issue was taken up during talks with the International Monetary Fund in November. Ahmed said the government was forced to consider imposing new taxes, as there was a huge gap between revenue and expenditures. He said the government would also impose an additional one percent federal excise duty from January 1, 2010. daily times monitor

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Dec 2009 20:33

I thought tax is against Islamic laws. Besides, what happens to those billions of dollars from amrika goes?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 23 Dec 2009 22:20

Fear and Loathing in Pakistan

And when the entourage of staff and reporters traveling with Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Mike Mullen arrived at a Pakistani Air Force base on Wednesday evening, we were subjected to a nearly hourlong delay, as every one of our bags was passed through an x-ray bomb detector for reasons that seemed more about harassment than security. (Who ever heard of screening the bags of people getting off the plane?)

At the heart of this problem is the anti-Americanism and conspiracy-mongering of Pakistan's media, which I saw first-hand when I read through a large stack of local papers at the embassy. So I was glad to find on my return to Washington this week that the latest print issue of TNR features a really top-notch article by Nicholas Schmindle about Shireen Mazari, a Pakistani journalist who's been dubbed "the Anne Coulter of Pakistan," and who has been responsible for countless stories like the one that recently speculated about whether a Wall Street Journal reporter in the country is actually a CIA spy, potentially endangering his life. When I was Islamabad, one newspaper (I believe it was Mazari's The Nation, which is generally the worst offender) ran a story which included the wacko claim, attributed to Seymour Hersh, that a "death squad" backed by Dick Cheney was behind the 2007 assassination of Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto as well as the 2005 murder of Lebanese prime minister Raffik Hariri. (It seems this nutty rumor has been floating around since at least May, even though Hersh himself has publicly denied saying such a thing) In Islamabad, American officials told us about another story that identified--complete with photograph--a building in the city purportedly housing workers for the security contractor Xe (nee Blackwater). In fact, the building was home to Western aid workers--at least until they fled to safer environs that same day.

Schmindle's article on Mazari is indeed print only, not available on-line

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 23 Dec 2009 22:32

The core texts of Judaism prescribe that adulterers be stoned to death. Yet we do not see this in practice. Ultimately, it is how the core texts are interpreted and not the philologist's meaning of the text that is important. Clearly in the case of Islam in Pakistan, there are political and social forces who see benefit in the most extreme interpretations of the text. In case of Pakistan, the quest for a "pure Islam" and a shedding of all other identities is one of the social forces at work.

-- I believe the above statements are analytically correct and also do not offend anyone. Truth must be arrived at whether or not it offends; but of many possible ways, some ways of expression step on fewer toes than others.

arun · Post by **arun** » 23 Dec 2009 23:33

Gerard wrote:Pakistan has national animals to complement the national bird...

Secret US raids into Pakistan disclosed

That is the ersatz Iranian version of the story first published in the Guardian that I had earlier posted here on BRF:

BRF

arun · Post by **arun** » 23 Dec 2009 23:41

X Posted.

Doubt cast on Pakistan's battle claims

West Point Report; Taliban said to have vacated Waziristan

Peter Goodspeed, National Post Published: Wednesday, December 23, 2009

While Pakistan's Prime Minister, Yousuf Raza Gilani, has claimed a military offensive in South Waziristan is over and successful, a new study published by the Combating Terrorism Center at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., is far less enthusiastic.

It suggests there is little evidence of heavy fighting in the area because "it appears most militants fled in the face of the government advance." ……………………

National Post

The referenced report, written by Rahimullah Yusufzai, is available in the December 2009 edition of CTC Sentinel:

Assessing the Progress of Pakistan’s South Waziristan Offensive

nithish · Post by **nithish** » 24 Dec 2009 00:09

editorial by G Parthasarthy

Crisis in Pakistan deepens

The Defence Minister, Mr A. K. Antony, announced on December 18 that India is pulling out two divisions comprising 30,000 troops from Jammu and Kashmir. This announcement came in the wake of a reduction in infiltration of ISI-backed jihadis across the Line of Control and a determined effort by the Omar Abdullah-led State Government to expand, train and equip the J&K State police forces to deal with terrorist violence, especially in the urban areas.
**rest of the very long article deleted ***

posted in full

Pakistan is on the brink, we simply need to convince them to jump...

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 24 Dec 2009 01:27

A_Gupta wrote:Fear and Loathing in Pakistan

Shireen Mazari, a Pakistani journalist who's been dubbed "the Anne Coulter of Pakistan," (

Anne Coulter of Pakistan!!??!!

Ms. Coulter:

And, Ms. Shrilleen:

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 24 Dec 2009 01:57

anupmisra:

But dharmatma Crowley is looking at the souls of Coulter and Mazari and not their exteriors.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 24 Dec 2009 01:59

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8428819.stm

Pakistan follows India on hijra gender issue. Confirming again India's soft power.

Too bad that is all for which they follow India.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 24 Dec 2009 02:06

Brihaspati:

I look forward to a situation where the lands and people currently under occupation by GOTSP, can be integrated back into Bharat.

I read today that Serbia has applied for admission to the European Union.

Imagine the components of the former Yugoslavia all in the EU - Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia, etc. - all with a common currency, trade with no tariffs, integrated with European defence, visa-less travel across borders, right to reside and work across borders, etc. Almost everything they had as Yugoslavia, except perhaps the right to vote for each other's parliaments. This will happen a few decades after a very bitter civil war, ethnic cleansing, killing to the extent of genocide. Moreover, in World War II, Germany killed a great many Serbs; Serbia is now seeking to join a EU in which Germany to some measure is dominant.

"Integrated back into Bharat" can have many meanings, I think the Serbia-EU situation is closer to what is possible than the most common meaning of "integrated back into Bharat".

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Dec 2009 02:17

With the exception of big percentage of Pakjabi population, Sindhi, Baloch and Pushtoon will most probably take a sympathetic look at Serbia/ Yugo /EU style integration. Zardari has started playing Sindh card and lets hope this become another nail in Paki coffin. One way to influence Sindh will be expand the Dam and canal system in North India with capacity to store and direct distribution of the water to Sindh Desh and beyond.

pran · Post by **pran** » 24 Dec 2009 02:31

"Integrated back into Bharat" can have many meanings, I think the Serbia-EU situation is closer to what is possible than the most common meaning of "integrated back into Bharat".

Doing business with these enlightened ones from TSP , unless it is forgotten that J&K apple traders did not get a dime out of these thiefs and freeloaders and all the vermins trying to cross the border with a single purpose of terrorizing the Indian populace and the state.

Why would anyone in their right mind would like to get these loathsome packees into Bharat for whatever reason. They have created this compost heap of their country and I sincerely wish they become useful as fertilizers at the end otherwise a burden on humanity as long as they exist.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 24 Dec 2009 02:36

Click to read more

http://www.newmediajournal.us/staff/p_w ... 222009.htm
Why Is Islamberg Now a Ghost Town?
December 22, 2009

The Wall Street Journal reports this week that U.S. investigators are discovering that more and more young Muslims are vanishing from mosques, madrassas, and Islamic centers.

The disappearances, the Journal notes, are raising grave concerns among FBI and Homeland Security officials who fear that an onset of jihadist activity will take place on American soil in the near future.

Hundreds of Muslim men are also missing from Islamberg and this is not a propitious omen.

The sentry post is gone and no guards are in sight at the entrance to the 70 acre Islamic settlement located in the dense forest between Deposit and Hancock in upper New York State.

Young men in Islamic garb no longer congregate before the makeshift mosque, and no students are in attendance at the one room shack that serves as Sheikh Gilani's “International Quranic Open University.”

Gunfire no longer can be heard from the firing ranges along the eastern parameter of the property – and no grunts come from new recruits at the obstacle course.

A new sign at the entranceway reads, “Welcome to Holy Islamberg: The International Quranic Open University.” Next to this sign, which features the image of a mosque emerging from the mountains, is a pot of plastic carnations. Another sign proclaims that the community is home to the “United Muslim – Christian Forum.”

Such statements of welcome are offset by the “No Trespassing” signs that have been nailed to trees throughout the compound.

On the opposite side of the road leading into the community is a rack of metal mailboxes bearing such names as Abdul-Haqq, Abdul Jalil, Mumim Roberts, Abdullah Simonds, and Salam Insan.

What has happened to this once bustling complex of radical Islamists – a place where the cries of muezzins were accompanied by the incessant rat-tat-tat of machine gunfire? Where are the Arab dignitaries that used to visit this remote community in chauffeur-driven limousines? Where are the armed sentries who warded away all intruders?

A handful of children play in the mud and muck before rows of rusty old trailers, and a few women in full burkas walk along the rutty dirt road that leads to the heart of the squalid Muslim compound.

The few residents who remain in the settlement are not environmentalists. Sewage seeps from septic tanks and outhouses into the creek that flows at the base of the settlement. Bags of rotting garbage remain stacked between the trailers. And the once pristine countryside is now littered with junk cars, moldy mattresses, empty tanks of propane, and old appliances.

Where are the men?

What has happened to this bustling center of jihadi training?

Why has Islamberg become a ghost town?

The same phenomenon of vanishing Muslim men is taking place at mosques, madrassas, and other Islamic communities throughout the country and at other Jamaat ul-Fuqra paramilitary compounds, including one in Red House, Virginia.

U.S. investigators have now discovered that many of the missing Muslims are showing up in the killing fields of Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Somalia.

Five American Muslims recently were arrested in Pakistan following a raid at the home of a member of the Jaish-e-Muhammad, a Pakistani movement designated as a terrorist group by the U.S. Treasury Department in 2001.

The five American Muslims – identified as Ahmed Abdullah, Waqar Hassan Khan, Eman Hassan, Yasir and Rami Zamzam – were planning to join forces with the Taliban to fight the U.S.-led coalition forces in Afghanistan.

Zamzam is a graduate dental student at Howard University, where he served as president of the Muslim Student Association.

David Coleman Headley, another Muslim who disappeared, is a native of Chicago who attended Lashkar-e-Toiba-operated terrorism training camps in Pakistan and helped Lashker-e-Toiba members and others plan and execute the attacks in Denmark against the newspaper which published cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed, which Muslims found offensive, as well as the violent attack in Mumbai, in about 170 people died.

At the same time Headley was taken into custody, U.S. investigators discovered that 20 Somali immigrants, who were reported missing from a mosque in Minnesota, had joined the Islamist insurgent group, al Shabaab, and were engaged in fighting Somalia's U.S.-backed government.

And there is the case of Najibullah Zazi, a 24-year-old resident of Denver, who made a trip to Peshawar, Pakistan, in 2008 for the stated purpose of visiting his wife only to show up at an al Qaeda training camp where he received instruction in making and detonating explosives. In September, Zazi was collared by federal officials as he made his way to New York City to carry out attacks with the same back-pack bombs that were used to blow up a train station in Madrid and several subway stations in London.

Where are the Muslim men from Islamberg?

The answer comes from a heavy-set woman in a long black burka who stops to check her mail box. “The men – all gone,” she says in halting English. “All – in Pakistan.”

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 24 Dec 2009 02:58

brihaspati innocently wrote: My position is that if stereotyping is allowed by some mindset, where a whole nation is attributed qualities of atrocious behaviour based on the foundational claims/theory/texts and similar behaviour/uttering/actions by a minuscule proportion of that very same nation - then why is the same mindset objecting when others stereotype a whole ideology/community by its theological claims/theory/texts and atrocious behaviour/uttering/actions by a minuscule protion of that very same community?

The people of the ideology that is being blamed form a good 13% of our population, not all are like the stereotypical jehadi even if many are, and it is not funny to create enemies out of the silent among the 13% of our population [just because they do not stand up and cuss the more violent among their lot] by just treating their religion as an excuse in contrast with their actions or proposed actions. And on one day it will be one ideology and on the next, it will be something else. So who is going to bell the cat that brands certain ideologies and religions as causes of harm in the world? By limiting it to pakistan, the problem is pin-pointed precisely more or less, but by expanding it to Islam, you are spreading it to a point where you can not only not unite "the rest" but also you are making a fundamental mistake of punishing a community for the crime of a few, an anathema in a democrazy where democrazy is really practiced instead of touted as a god-given gift. Very hard to figure out, I am perfectly sure.

nithish · Post by **nithish** » 24 Dec 2009 03:51

was just wondering about Pakistan's equal-equal syndrome; why do the TFTA martial race of Paks always try and compare themselves with kufr India - surely just being Pakistani means you are better than India? why the comparison all the time?

James B · Post by **James B** » 24 Dec 2009 03:51

Pakistan makes into top10 crises-hit countries

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 24 Dec 2009 04:08

Stan_Savljevic wrote:The people of the ideology that is being blamed form a good 13% of our population, not all are like the stereotypical jehadi even if many are, and it is not funny to create enemies out of the silent among the 13% of our population [just because they do not stand up and cuss the more violent among their lot] by just treating their religion as an excuse in contrast with their actions or proposed actions. And on one day it will be one ideology and on the next, it will be something else. So who is going to bell the cat that brands certain ideologies and religions as causes of harm in the world? By limiting it to pakistan, the problem is pin-pointed precisely more or less, but by expanding it to Islam, you are spreading it to a point where you can not only not unite "the rest" but also you are making a fundamental mistake of punishing a community for the crime of a few, an anathema in a democrazy where democrazy is really practiced instead of touted as a god-given gift. Very hard to figure out, I am perfectly sure.

Completely agree. Ramchandra Guha in his eminently readable book (India after Gandhi) describes two contrary types of political rhetoric being used prior to independence (actually this type of rhetoric is still in use) - The 'rhetoric of hope' (INC which focused on inclusiveness, secularism, development) and the 'rhetoric of fear' (ML focused on exclusiveness, real or imagined grievances and identification of a target (hindus)). It was because of this reason the so called 'ambassador of hindu-muslim unity' was ultimately so pusillanimous in his defence of minorities in pakistan, in sharp contrast to the vociferous defence of minorities by the INC leadership in India.

It is ironic that some here feel that the way to beat the pakis in their game is to become like them.

archan · Post by **archan** » 24 Dec 2009 04:35

nithish wrote: posted in full

Question is, why?

negi · Post by **negi** » 24 Dec 2009 04:38

Stan, B and Arnab lucid points and more importantly sensible and practical.

Shankk · Post by **Shankk** » 24 Dec 2009 04:53

BijuShet wrote:He wanted the big brothers sacrifice from India.

Why is India a big brother? Islam is so much bigger than India having second largest population in the world and having spread it's tentacles in so many countries. Why can't an Islamic state of Pakistan make sacrifices as a big brother?

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 24 Dec 2009 05:06

Patels view on big brother nonsense. Not exactly the same situation or pple buuuut

http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=fd ... tid=0.1&zw

It is relevant to quote Sardar Patel (28-8-1948), in reply to a similar demand by Mr. Naziruddin Ahmed, a member of the Constituent Assembly.

"New nation of India will not tolerate disruptive tendencies in any form…..Mr. Naziruddin Ahmed has said: 'We will lose the affection of the younger brother if we do not accept his amendment requiring reservations for the Muslims in India . I am prepared to lose it (the affection of the younger brother), because otherwise it will prove to be the death of the elder brother.….I appeal to you to forget the past. You have got what you wanted ( Pakistan ). And remember you are the people who are responsible for Pakistan and not those who live in Pakistan . You led the agitation. What is it you want now? We do not want the country to be divided again."

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 24 Dec 2009 06:36

This is interesting...

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -tales-329

An old friend recounted his horror story of applying to get his multiple-entry, five-year visa to the UK renewed. His passport contained a similar valid Schengen visa to the EU, and one for Canada...When he opened the official-looking envelope, he found his passport missing, and a letter saying the High Commission regretted the loss of his passport....Apparently, only passports containing valid visas for other countries have gone missing.