INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 03 Aug 2009 02:26

Yes! At last! Official diagrams of Arihant!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 03 Aug 2009 02:40

Krish, can you post a screencap of the centrifuge hall please?

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 03 Aug 2009 02:56

Sorry for the bad image size!

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Aug 2009 02:58

Krish,

You can also capture the screen shot without pausing the video, then pause it. That way you do not get all that gobbledigook in the middle of the picture.

The last screen shot has nothing to do with the sub. More of a distraction. Get the very next slide.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 03 Aug 2009 03:05

Sorry for the bad image size!

The centrifuge hall is the Uranium enrichment facility (row of cylinders with white boxes on the side)

negi · Post by **negi** » 03 Aug 2009 03:06

Krish afiak Gerrad is referring to the ppt/picture that is shown at 42/43 seconds of the coverage (reads...Uranium Enrichment Facility).

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 Aug 2009 03:06

Krish,
Can you crop the images using MS Excel or MS Power point.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 03 Aug 2009 03:09

Mods will edit and thumbnail later. First we need the screencaps of the most interesting parts.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 03 Aug 2009 03:16

Clear images

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 03 Aug 2009 03:21

I am waiting for our comrade Igor's input on similarity or copy features of complete Ruskie design.

Speciba in Advance

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Aug 2009 03:35

Krish,

See if you can add the cross sectional view too.

Thx for all of them.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 03 Aug 2009 03:38

Kanson wrote:
symontk wrote:Not sure if this can be done, but gurus can contribute.

Can a Nuclear submarine practically "recharge" the batteries of a Diesel Submarine deep underwater?
Possible.

In the wildest dream of engineering, can a diesel submaribe be converted into nuclear powered?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Aug 2009 03:46

On the topic of borrowing, from the Arihant pics, it clearly has nothing in common with the Akula. Correct?

On the Borei issue. What is the possibility that Indians may have influenced a change in design? From what Borei pics I can get to, it is a far neater solution (IMHO of course) - cleaner lines. BUT, that is precisely the point. I would like to argue that the Russian consultants had a lot more time and experience to refine the design. Thoughts? (From a time-line PoV, it is possible - unless the sources I referred to are all goofed up.)

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 03 Aug 2009 03:57

She looks a lot fatter than I imagined. That is to say bigger. Can the experts comment?

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 03 Aug 2009 04:05

I think the Russians also leant a lot from the Indian side. Remember the Kursk episode. Those sub dont have good rescue systems to latch on. IN standards will be more close to western subs. Actually IN was working with uncle for rescue systems.

Current submarine rescue services

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 03 Aug 2009 05:07

Krish, thanks for the caps.
There is one that is missing... the interior cutaway with the K-X being launched.

clean version of this:

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 03 Aug 2009 05:12

Anant wrote:She looks a lot fatter than I imagined. That is to say bigger. Can the experts comment?

Isnt she look more like dolphin ?

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 03 Aug 2009 05:17

NRao wrote:On the topic of borrowing, from the Arihant pics, it clearly has nothing in common with the Akula. Correct?

On the Borei issue. What is the possibility that Indians may have influenced a change in design? From what Borei pics I can get to, it is a far neater solution (IMHO of course) - cleaner lines. BUT, that is precisely the point. I would like to argue that the Russian consultants had a lot more time and experience to refine the design. Thoughts? (From a time-line PoV, it is possible - unless the sources I referred to are all goofed up.)

Probably.

It can be more with the systems than appearance. Both Nerpa and Borei are happening at the same time. So there could be sharing of systems. The hump doesnt look like Borei neither the nose. It has slant tappered nose similar to Seawolf ( tells lot about her role).

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 03 Aug 2009 05:52

When is Bollywood going to have Big B show up as "Schoolmaster from Vishakapatnam", Tom Clancy style?

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 03 Aug 2009 06:24

FOlks may be interested in reading this google book.

http://tinyurl.com/prc-nuke-Submarines

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 03 Aug 2009 06:31

As per that diagram, the Arihant has 4 VLS arranged Linearly! That is 4x3 VLS cells arranged Linearly not in a 2x2 pattern as per Sandeep Unnithan's diagram. There is no sub in the world which has 4 VLS arranged linearly.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 03 Aug 2009 06:36

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Aug 2009 06:41

Actually, we should expect a change between what is in that slide and the real one.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 03 Aug 2009 06:43

people were complaing Agni is pencil thin so we have this stubby chubby like Beluga whale

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 03 Aug 2009 06:47

I like fat chicks, whether Agni or Arihant

What can I say? I for one am happy assuming that screengrab is a reasonable facsimile of the real deal. At any rate, congrats to everyone who built the boat and to quote Sir Mixalot, "Baby got back."

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Aug 2009 07:02

Shankarowsky was last seen cycling to the local vodka shack singing a happy song in tribute to Lenin

Spasibo comrade! down with the capitalists!

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 03 Aug 2009 07:09

What's this bit about "firing from under the icecap"?

Yes, I understand it's a technical capability, but how is there a clean flight trajectory from the arctic circle over to China?

negi · Post by **negi** » 03 Aug 2009 07:17

What's this bit about "firing from under the icecap"?
Actually this tactics was employed during the cold war as flight time for missiles from north pole into US or even RU is drastically reduced also a submarine is virtually invulnerable from surface ASW ships and even airborne ASW platforms as it can fire its missiles and hide below the polar ice cap .

ajay_hk · Post by **ajay_hk** » 03 Aug 2009 07:39

India built N-sub in Kalpakkam under codename 'PRP'

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Aug 2009 07:53

KrishG wrote:

The name "Bori" is short for "Boramma" (Boramma/Bhramaramba) in Karnataka. The sub shows clear Bori class origins
http://www.mahashivratri.org/gifs/andhra-pradesh.jpg

Akula origins are less certain
http://www.accnj.com/akula.htm

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 Aug 2009 08:11

Any foreign media coverage on this event.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Aug 2009 08:22

NRao wrote:On the Borei issue. What is the possibility that Indians may have influenced a change in design? From what Borei pics I can get to, it is a far neater solution (IMHO of course) - cleaner lines. BUT, that is precisely the point. I would like to argue that the Russian consultants had a lot more time and experience to refine the design. Thoughts? (From a time-line PoV, it is possible - unless the sources I referred to are all goofed up.)

I think the possibility is zero , we are talking of different class of submarine here , the Borei displaces 18,000T surfaced and ~ 24,000T submerged and is 4th Gen design.

Borei design was ready in early 90's , but was changed in late 90's ( no not because the consultant learnt from Arihant

) but because the Bark missile was cancelled and the redesign was necessary to accommodate Bulava.

Rubin has ~ 100 years of submarine design experience , does any one here seriously think they will need any feedback from Arihant design ?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Aug 2009 08:49

Austinji,

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm ........

does any one here seriously think they will need any feedback from Arihant design ?

My feel is that both nations had the same problem to solve: how do we put a tallish missile in a sub with limited diameter - without making the entire sub's diameter greater to accommodate the larger missile?

The normal design of powerpack -> sail -> missile bay would have made the sub front heavy or forced an increase in dia throughout the sub. The natural solution is to make the center house missiles - thus greater than the normal diameter of the sub in the middle, thus powerpack -> missile bay -> sail.

This evolutionary design could have come from anyone - I am in fact suggesting that it came from a group that was not brainwashed by 100 years of sub design.

And, WRT, size diff, that is normal.

In fact, I am more curious to see the design of the next two Arihant class subs - rumored to be larger than this one. I would not at all be surprised to see the first two to be closer to the Borei and perhaps if the next two are even larger, they just may be fairly close to it. BUT, I am fairly confident that the Indian subs would be Indian designs. The similarities would be just coincidental. Just a gut feel.

BTW, the Borei (nice set of pics) does look cute - very clean lines. Seems like two 5000 ton subs have been connected by a missile bay.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Aug 2009 08:53

if below is the Borei class sub, why are people saying it looks more
clean than Arihant?

http://www.denizaltici.com/images/DH-2. ... 20clas.JPG

to me they both look equally streamlined. the Borei obviously has the
taller and longer hump for Bulava.

fwd section looks similar - torpedo tubes on top and cylindrical sonar
below. no 100% sonar sphere in fwd section (Yasen class has it per reports)

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 03 Aug 2009 08:53

Since the PRP-TD is 1:1 scale... Diameter of the INS Arihant can be approximated using the image..
the PRP-TD is berricated using fuel barrel.. Std. Height of the barrel is 0.9mts..

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Aug 2009 08:56

can you post an approx estimate? couldnt make out which fuel cell barrel you refer to.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 03 Aug 2009 08:59

Singha-ji,
The Borei is even more streamlined than that model.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Aug 2009 09:01

dinesha wrote:Since the PRP-TD is 1:1 scale... Diameter of the INS Arihant can be approximated using the image..
the PRP-TD is berricated using fuel barrel.. Std. Height of the barrel is 0.9mts..

If Arihant is double hulled - this may be inner hull mock up alone

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Aug 2009 09:01

Singha,

Try: http://www.military-today.com/navy/borei_class_l1.jpg

There are similarities. However, the Borei is much, much larger, and therefore has better defined lines. The Arihant being much, much smaller, similar lines would be defused.

Having said that I am sure Airhants would be designed independent of the RU sub. Specially if there is no more consultancy.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Aug 2009 09:04

Borei - swimming.

Gagan,

That is a old pic - the new Borei has pumpjets - props are out of fashion.