You are right Sir!Avid wrote:Rakesh will be tasked with handling PR and Vishnu's complaints about the meaningless process of having to make you guys compete for the barfis.
at the absolutely massive browning of the pants ceremony on deff n dumb and paadf. Total shitfest. When nothing else fits in, it is the Lahori Logic that they find solace in..Yindoo pilots are noobs onlee.. 
Our pilots are TFTA Bhooke nange bikharis living off US alms & arms talking of 'buying' more F-16s from 'scorned' Unkil. From "dogfight"Rakesh wrote:I tried searching for the PIRATE FLIR, but could not come up anything significant.
Like the Rafale, the Typhoon “compensates” for the current lack of an
operational AESA radar with a superb IRST system—possibly the world’s
best—called the Passive Infra-Red Airborne Tracking Equipment (PIRATE).
Th e PIRATE system is capable of detecting targets at distances approaching
that of conventional radars. It combines a long-range IRST sensor operating
in the long-wave infrared band with a FLIR thermal imager that is capable of
passively searching, tracking and designating targets for weapons launch. All
system data is seamlessly integrated with the information collected by other
sensors to provide the pilot with a unifi ed track for each target.
What else is MMS responsible for ? the monkey that stole my undie from the line also took permission from MMS ?ManuJ wrote:It's really interesting to see how many of the posters think that Antony has somehow pulled a fast one on MMS with the downselect. To think that Antony will take this decision without consulting MMS and Madam! People grossly and unfairly underestimate MMS.
Issue I see for both aircraft is that they rely heavily on MIDS (Link 16 terminal) for their situational awareness. And link 16 needs timestamps from GPS, which is an US system and requires US personel, that provide the respective login codes. Austria for example has now 2 permanent US liason officers in Zeltweg-and they pay for them.Rakesh wrote:@March:
1) Is Rafale planned for 2 way datalink in the future? Would be a great addition to have to make midcourse updates to the Meteor. When you refer to external target data, I am assuming you are referring to AWACS/AEW&C aircraft?
French Meteor get the MICA inferface for compatibility issues. I have no idea if le French have any plans to correct that in the future
See this about Rafale's sensor fusion. Pretty interesting...
http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/2011/04/ ... usion.html
Yep, AdlA has been buisy to develop cooperative engagement tactics involving 2 or more Rafales + other offboard sensors. Not only for a2a, the same is applied to engagements to AASM vs. SAM sites for example.
2) Is Rafale planned for a fixed FLIR in the future? I tried searching for the PIRATE FLIR, but could not come up anything significant.
A new IR channel is an option for F4 Rafales, but for now F3 Rafales have to do with the TV channel of OSF IT.
The fact that they are begging for more F-Solahs, speaks volumes about the capability of the Fundaar and J20.SaiK wrote:allah ke naam pe, bandar aur j20 ho raha hain na?
negi wrote:What else is MMS responsible for ? the monkey that stole my undie from the line also took permission from MMS ?ManuJ wrote:It's really interesting to see how many of the posters think that Antony has somehow pulled a fast one on MMS with the downselect. To think that Antony will take this decision without consulting MMS and Madam! People grossly and unfairly underestimate MMS.
Btw on a serious note the Unkil birds have been chucked out by the IAF even before the matter reaches the MoD leave alone the PMO ; MMS comes into play only if teens would have made the final cut. If SG and MMS had so much say in the affairs of the services then Bofors would not have made it through the field tests so many times.
First of all, the IAF was only responsible for submitting the technical evaluation reports. It was the MOD that decided to downselect all except the top 2 contenders - what was preventing it from extending the list to top 3 or top 4?negi wrote:the Unkil birds have been chucked out by the IAF even before the matter reaches the MoD leave alone the PMO ; MMS comes into play only if teens would have made the final cut. If SG and MMS had so much say in the affairs of the services then Bofors would not have made it through the field tests so many times.
And pray tell what other evaluation does MoD do ? When the technical evaluation sheet will not have the teens in top slots on what basis will MoD promote the said AC ? Obviously if you are trying to give credit to MoD for not doing Massa's bidding then I am with you afterall MoD is on Unkil's payroll.ManuJ wrote:First of all, the IAF was only responsible for submitting the technical evaluation reports. It was the MOD that decided to downselect all except the top 2 contenders - what was preventing it from extending the list to top 3 or top 4?
I already gave you a live example in form of Bofors (IA has selected Bofors not once but more than twice and yet it has been pushed back by the MoD to re-test 'until Bofors fails'); what politicians want and can do is for everyone to see and read. There is little to speculate there. Point being politicos can rig things once it is out of the services' loop .You seriously think that if the politicians wanted this to be a strategic decision and thus wanted one of the US teens to win, they couldn't have arm-twisted and manipulated the process to ensure that outcome? No, really?
MMS is no one to give freedom to IAF when it comes to latter's mandate; things haven't deteriorated in India to that level , until now.The fact that IAF was given the freedom to judge the contenders on purely technical merits means
Boss they would have been tested if IAF evaluations would have had at least one of the teens in second position; it says a lot about the IAF's evaluation where none of the teens qualified despite 2 vacancies.that MMS and Antony absorbed the political pressure and let IAF do its job. Give credit where its due.
Where , you seem to in some onther world.ManuJ wrote:You agreed that if PMO wanted, it could have manipulated the process.
I am not even implying that PMO tried to manipulate the process, all I am saying is that PMO cannot manipulate the evaluation process even it wants to and hence it cannot take credit/blame for technical evalutaions done by the IAF it's as simple as that. The Politocs can best throw spanner in the works just like the Bofors , once it was in contention they could not force IA to not select the gun obviously after the dog and pony show now that the gun maker has decided to withdraw from the tender IA can't do much , can it ?On the other hand you are saying that it was only IAF's professionalism that prevented PMO from manipulating the process.
Hey Boss I did not bring in MMS and other BS into this thread; it was you who made claims about his mythical influence on the MRCA deal.Are you implying that PMO tried to manipulate the process but IAF heroically resisted the pressure? Or that IAF, by selecting the Euro-canards as the top 2 contenders, tied the PMO's hands? In either case, I would say that you are being naive.
Katare wrote:I am just amazed that no one has even considered the possibility, in last 14 pages, that it is fair and square process
Strategic decisions are never decided by marketing sophistication or influential lobbying. It is decided by the strategic factors only
You can't go by strategic relationship only. What will you do with strong strategic relations if you lose the war with technically-inferior aircrafts
The type of relationship that exists between the US and Pakistan Air Force what is the guarantee that our system won't be leaked to Pakistan's system? If that happens, India's advantage would vanish
Why should I even take the labour to explain that the Indian government would look after the interests of the Indian Air force and not any bilateral relations? That goes without saying."
"Such decisions impact our 30 to 35 years of defence capabilities. You can't go by strategic relationship only. What will you do with strong strategic relations if you lose the war with technically-inferior aircrafts," Chandra asked.
Asserting that the country buys arms and fighter jets to win wars and not to build relationships, he said, "The bottom-line of such a purchase is the requirement of Indian Air Force. It is the duty of political leaders to provide the armed forces what suits them best."
Chandra said Pakistan already had an advantage on the issue, as they have many-decades-old defence ties with the US.
He explained that Pakistan had the F series jet fighters since the last many decades. The Americans were offering the advanced version to India and Pakistan. Pakistan is much ahead of India in maintaining log sheets of it with rich experience of 30-plus years.
Chandra asked, "The type of relationship that exists between the US and Pakistan Air Force what is the guarantee that our system won't be leaked to Pakistan's system? If that happens, India's advantage would vanish."
He also said that even US armed forces opt for foreign purchase when it suits them.
Chandra said, "When the government takes such a decision, strategic relations do not have even 50 per cent weight because no country wants to buy fighter aircrafts, weapons and ammunition to lose war."
He added, "Why should I even take the labour to explain that the Indian government would look after the interests of the Indian Air force and not any bilateral relations? That goes without saying."
Apart from Naresh Chandra I believe credit also goes to defence minister AK Antony. He explicitly mentioned to IA and IAF commanders ONLY that we need to strictly follow ethical procedures and stay away from corrupt practices. This guy seems to be knowing what his priorities are.shiv wrote:Some interesting quotes from the Naresh Chandra interview
Russia was certain from the very beginning that her aircraft would win the tender. Indian experts also estimated Russia' chances for the victory as very high. The MiG-35 fighter jet was taking an advantage over its competitors with its lower price.
Now Russia has received the official refusal from India. On Thursday night, Rosoboronexport and MiG design bureau received a letter in which the Defense Ministry of India informed about the preliminary results of the tender which was announced in 2007. The letter contained the detailed analysis of the drawbacks of the Russian offer. One of the claims is reportedly about the engines.
Russia's Defense Ministry earlier said that it was planning to purchase 26 deck-based MiG-29 and not less than 72 MiG-35. The contracts have not been signed yet. The price of those fighter jets may turn out to be too high for the home market now, after the loss in the Indian tender. If Delhi had purchased the Russian jets, the largest contract would give an opportunity to set the home price for the jet a lot lower.
Experts believe that India's choice for European aircraft makers is based on the intention to obtain the technologies required for the realization of its own TEJAS light fighter jet program. The Russian technologies, which India could obtain with MiG-35 jets, do not fit the program.
He should be lobbying for the Grip!!!!Looks like he is lobbying for American technology.
...why India won't buy American: India has seen Pakistan's suffering as a result of its almost complete reliance on US military equipment, with the US imposing sanctions on Pakistan every now and then. India is no fool, and will not fall into our trap. It knows we are not reliable allies.
The salient facts of the process this time round must be noted and cheered.
First, it has been transparent, with rejections made on technical grounds. The two MMRCA selected performed the best in trials and were seen to be closest to the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) requirements.
Second, it was the IAF’s technical expertise that determined which contenders stayed on, without political interference.
Third, the spectre of scandal in defence procurement that has haunted the UPA government would stop arms purchase at the slightest hint of controversy.
As a result, while trials and tenders were falling prey to such fears, the Indian armed forces were being undermined as an institution, blunting our conventional response capability. The IAF itself has seen a sharp decline in squadron numbers. The MMRCA bidding process so far is encouraging, and it should mark a new beginning.
This was the Air Chief's concerns all along.. (Is there any legal alternative for them to do such a thing??)The speculation is whether Washington will seek to reverse this decision by crying foul about the selection process.
The US companies hope to get explanations that will let them better understand Indian processes and procedures with an eye to future competitions.
