Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Locked
JohnTitor
BRFite
Posts: 1345
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by JohnTitor »

Lilo wrote:There are many indications given by NaMo that he will take care of these sikular types and make a lesson out of them when he comes to power - that alone should be sufficient to warm the cockles of those Hindus chaffing at the injustice from the past decade of sikular rule.
Please sir, correct yourself. It is 61+ years.
kittoo wrote:There is no problem in the development sense. The problem is that he will alienate those Hindus who are voting for him because they feel he is a leader who will talk about Hindu benefits too, finally. And there are a lot of such voters. So many people, in areas like UP, especially the upper caste people etc. are not galvanizing behind Modi for development alone. There is a sense in a lot of people that there is no one who speaks for Hindus, and Modi is a hope for them. Even if Modi doesn't discriminate in development, he needs to understand that he is not getting votes for that. He is getting votes BOTH for development and for being Hindu Hriday Samrat. Statements like these will make the core Hindu voters feel disenchanted with him.
+10! Lest I say more?
Arun Menon wrote:Ghettoising muslims is the best thing that can be done to strengthen the hands of the islamist filth. In these ghettoes they breed like pigs and spread illiteracy, thereby becoming brain-dead zombies for the islamists. I know that some terrorists are educated, but the ecosystem where these people come from always involves the majority of the community being brainwashed illiterates. Also, I don't need to elaborate the benefits of not having them breed like pigs. Unless these posters suggest sending muslims to the gas chambers, I think the best solution would be to remove them from the influence of the islamists (funded by saudi barbaria). To this end, Mr. Modi must bring them education and prosperity to them as well, whether they deserve it or not.
Definitely true & in agreement.
kmkraoind wrote:There is a famous Chinese joke, where Driver of Mao asks for direction, whether to take left (socialism) or right (capitalism) for which Mao says signal toward left and go on right.
Let us hope this is true and he is not a closet sickular. I honestly DO NOT feel that he is, but the way things are in india, I wouldnt be shocked if he were. I would however, give him the benefit of doubt that he is "calming" the waters, and preventing an 'anti-wave' driven by congi sickularism rather than trying to win this non-winnable segment as described below:
varunkumar wrote:Modi will never be accepted by monotheists (Muslims and Christians) who consider him as a leader and defender of idol worshippers -- this is how the brain of monotheists works in all its bigoted glory. By such secular statements, Modi will confuse Hindus too about where he stands in respect to them. One must never distance himself from his core community of supporters to curry favor with those on the fringe.
+1

What most people here are forgetting is that its not about "FACTS" or reality - its all about perception. If his core voters think he's a closet <insert whatever phrase here>, then they won't vote - irrespective of whether he is or isn't. As I said, if it is a one off thing just to calm the waters, then he probably will be forgiven, but if he goes around claiming to be secular then the modi wave will start waning. The thing about Modi is that he is seen by ALL hindus as a leader, unlike even yeddi or other hindu leaders, because they command the leadership of just 1 sub-section of the hindus. Modi needs to realise this and not appease everyone at the cost of losing the larger section. If I as a voter thinks he isn't what I thought he was, thats enough - I wont sit and think about this and debate it with a 1000 people before casting my vote. BR posters have the time, energy and opportunity to do so, not for the villager in place where there isnt electricity. He just hears 1 sentence and his decisions are based on such incomplete statements and not analysed.
Last edited by JohnTitor on 27 Apr 2013 15:54, edited 1 time in total.
Gus
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8220
Joined: 07 May 2005 02:30

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Gus »

ravi_g wrote:Gus ji,

that a 'take it or leave it' stance will have 'most leaving it' or 'most taking it' is merely a matter of PoV.
It is a point of fact that INC has come to power 90% plus times.

This amazing sangh politics that clarifies positions for its followers has gotten BJP into power once and it is even more pathetic considering that a bleeping foreigner woman who was not into politics for most of her life can play better politics than these enlightened and position clarifying leaders of sangh.

Using cricket analogy - every run counts. Singles, byes, leg byes, overthrows etc. Cannot waste balls saying that I will hit 4 and 6 in slog overs and win the match. 8)
Gus
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8220
Joined: 07 May 2005 02:30

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Gus »

Of FFS - all he said was he's not a leader for Hindus alone. Still don't understand what is wrong with that.
geeth
BRFite
Posts: 1196
Joined: 22 Aug 1999 11:31
Location: India

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by geeth »

When sikulars are telling day-in and day-out that Modi is a terrorist-minority-killing-Hindu Fanatic, what he should tell the public? That "yes, I am what the sikulars have made out of me" or that "No, I am not a Hindu fanatic, not done anything wrong, and I want development of all"..I think he is trying to put across the second. Ofcourse, there will be subtle moves to woo the muslims, though it may not be successful. I can't imagine Modi doing a "Jinnah Sikular" Ch***yappa anytime soon...may be when he is old enough, he too will have his "Jinnah Moment" who knows? But, at the moment he is taking the right course..
JohnTitor
BRFite
Posts: 1345
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by JohnTitor »

geeth wrote:When sikulars are telling day-in and day-out that Modi is a terrorist-minority-killing-Hindu Fanatic, what he should tell the public? That "yes, I am what the sikulars have made out of me" or that "No, I am not a Hindu fanatic, not done anything wrong, and I want development of all"..I think he is trying to put across the second. Ofcourse, there will be subtle moves to woo the muslims, though it may not be successful. I can't imagine Modi doing a "Jinnah Sikular" Ch***yappa anytime soon...may be when he is old enough, he too will have his "Jinnah Moment" who knows? But, at the moment he is taking the right course..
Geeth ji, I do not disagree one bit with what you are saying but you are making my exact point. If people on BR who are educated and capable of analysing things to death are asking such questions, what do you think the common villager is asking? What I am trying to say is that, what he meant is irrelevant, its what people make of what he said - damn the underlying meaning.
VinodTK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3282
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by VinodTK »

Sarabjit case proof of failure, weakness of UPA govt: Narendra Modi
Dubbing the Centre as "weak", Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi today said the government has suffered a "total blackout" in its foreign policy and failed on all fronts, including on the issue of death row convict Sarabjit Singh.

"The issue of Sarabjit Singh should not be seen in isolation... all incidents are proof of failure and weakness of this government," Modi told reporters on the sidelines of a function on a query regarding the Indian national, who was attacked by two prisoners in a Lahore jail.
:
:
:
member_20317
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3167
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20317 »

Chandragupta wrote: His statements like India First = Secularism, Sabka Sath, Sabka Vikas - are perfectly secular & wonderful slogans which everybody encourages. He names no community, he says he works for India & Indians. But when he says 'Main sirf Hinduo ka neta nahi hun' - he names a community, there is an attempt to include others, there is an attempt to reach out - something he doesn't need to.
CG ji, the that was also my impression when I heard the re-defining of Secularism as India First. But then this is not a secular stance. In fact this is exceedingly damaging to Secularists. Up until now it was the Secularists who used to say that Hindutva = = Communals < India. But this they used to say only because they were in power. Now that they are loosing grip fast, the probability has increased that the common good of India will be decided by the very people who were sought to be stigmatized. That too in a democratically legitimate manner. In such a scenario it is the Secularists who will have to either fall in line or revolt. Whatever the Secularists choose, they will experience the Vighatan.


.............................
Gus wrote:
ravi_g wrote:Gus ji,
that a 'take it or leave it' stance will have 'most leaving it' or 'most taking it' is merely a matter of PoV.
It is a point of fact that INC has come to power 90% plus times.

This amazing sangh politics that clarifies positions for its followers has gotten BJP into power once and it is even more pathetic considering that a bleeping foreigner woman who was not into politics for most of her life can play better politics than these enlightened and position clarifying leaders of sangh.
Gus ji, a weak nation will fall for the Vighatan ki Raajniti. A strong national spirit will OTOH find expression in Sangathan ki Raajneti. So that phase is going fast. In terms of the power Nehru>IG>RG>SM>RaulG. And the role of Coalition partners has increased for Kongis. RaulG will not even be a PM.

OTOH Sangh has made a smooth transition from a heavy social agenda (& mediocre economic management) to a heavy economic/administrative agenda (with reasonable social agenda). NaMo is the brightest star in the firmament filled with more stars. In time more people within BJP will rise to perform better and this will also rub off on the NDA partners.

Basically I am betting that things will move further ahead in this optimistic direction and at some point you will have to broach the pessimist point that it will not be so.
Gus
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8220
Joined: 07 May 2005 02:30

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Gus »

Just like how no car can please the tbhp folks, no politician can please some BR crowd.
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SwamyG »

kittoo wrote:I personally feel that he should not have said that he is not a leader of Hindus only. Its the same mistake of alienating your core community. Every news channel and even local Hindi newspapers had this as headline. Why did he say that? Will him saying this change anything as far as English media or Muslims are concerned. They will not be satisfied even if he is hanged. Such statements only alienate his hardcore Hindu voters.

Just my 2 cents.
This is where Rajiv Malhotra's points fit well. Rajiv breaks down Indian population into 20% core Hindu supporters, 20% anti-Hindu supporters, and 60% who express no strong ideology. Modi says in 2002 after winning elections he had said he is the CM of people who voted for him, did not vote for him and people who did not vote at all.

Alienation occurs in two forms - individual and community wise. Individuals here there can always get alienated by a sentence or two. It can not be avoided. However, since the Hindu community leaders have supported Modi, the alienation is going to be arrested. If a local swami or sadhu comes out in support like a Muslim or Christian clergy comes out with support, people usually go with their suggestions - that is people who are not independent minded.

At the same time such intentions and ideas curb charges and allegations in the future. And also the right thing to do.
geeth
BRFite
Posts: 1196
Joined: 22 Aug 1999 11:31
Location: India

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by geeth »

Geeth ji, I do not disagree one bit with what you are saying but you are making my exact point. If people on BR who are educated and capable of analysing things to death are asking such questions, what do you think the common villager is asking? What I am trying to say is that, what he meant is irrelevant, its what people make of what he said - damn the underlying meaning.
You mean, Modi should satisfy 100% of the populace to muster pass marks? why this criteria is not there for others? why it should matter, if some folks feel otherwise? IMO, he should do what he thinks is right..If majority feels he is a fraud, he will be rejected.

If Modi is required to satisfy all folks in every nook and corner of the country, that is not going to happen. After all, he is also a human being and is bound to have faults and make mistakes..yeah, Take it or leave it situation indeed.
member_23629
BRFite
Posts: 676
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_23629 »

Arun Menon wrote:^+1, I find it disturbing how people would rather focus on words than deeds. This kind of attitude got us into this situations where we have such politics of fraud in the first place.
Words are very important -- they have a life and import of their own. That is why Congees call Godhra a "pogrom" and not a riot and RSS is called "communal fascists" and not Hindu cultural organization. Modi should watch his words carefully -- saying he is not a leader of Hindus only is a blunder. He should better choose neutral indirect words like "everybody in Gujarat benefits from my development work regardless of his religion or caste." Hindus don't root for him because of his bridges and roads but because he has come to represent their cultural aspirations and they consider him as one of their own.
member_23629
BRFite
Posts: 676
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_23629 »

Gus wrote:Just like how no car can please the tbhp folks, no politician can please some BR crowd.
Well my friend, if Modi is a leader of Muslims too, then what is his problem with wearing a skull cap?
Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pranav »

varunkumar wrote:
Gus wrote:Just like how no car can please the tbhp folks, no politician can please some BR crowd.
Well my friend, if Modi is a leader of Muslims too, then what is his problem with wearing a skull cap?
Being leader of Muslims does not mean he is one himself.
geeth
BRFite
Posts: 1196
Joined: 22 Aug 1999 11:31
Location: India

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by geeth »

Well my friend, if Modi is a leader of Muslims too, then what is his problem with wearing a skull cap?
As I understand, there are many Muslims who had contested under BJP banner and won also..who is the leader for them? Did the jantha vote for these Muslim candidates and the rest of the Hindu candidates, thinking that some Mulla with a goatee is their leader?

By not wearing the skull cap, Modi had spoken his mind..and He was not afraid of losing muslim votes by indulging in such an act. In fact, he got criticized by the sikulars
Gus
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8220
Joined: 07 May 2005 02:30

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Gus »

Same logic as, I don't poop in my pants to empathize with children. I am sorry was there a deep philosophical question there that required and elegant eloquent nuanced answer?
member_20292
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2059
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20292 »

^^^

Sar par garami lagathi hai isiliye nahin pehentha hai.
chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by chaanakya »

varunkumar wrote:
Well my friend, if Modi is a leader of Muslims too, then what is his problem with wearing a skull cap?
Since when wearing a skull cap become symbol of being a leader of Muslims? it is not even religious symbol for islam. Generally its origin is traced to pre islamic period and related to Jewish symbol . Yiddish term is Kippah or Yarmulke.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kippah

http://www.thevoiceoforthodoxy.com/arch ... l_cap.html

Are they laying claim to a Symbol of Jewish Rituals and we need to wear that to show solidarity with them??
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

When Narendra Modi says, "I'm not just the leader of the Hindus", one needs to understand this in the proper context. There are of course several perspectives from which one can look at it, especially electoral, but from the perspective of agenda, this is the exact thing that Modi needs to put out:

In the "Bharatiya" Thread, I had proposed a timeline for the Progressive Liberation of the Rashtra. The first phase is
RajeshA wrote:
  1. Redefining the Indian Secular platform even as we inject Dharmic Amrit into it as mentioned earlier. This liberates the Jati-conscious, the Macaulayites and the Yuppies from the Sickular coalition. In order to do so, we have to show ourselves as not "trigger-happy" - ideologically speaking. It marginalizes the Cultural Marxists and exposes the Islamo-Christianists triggering a collapse of the Sickular platform. However formally the declared enemy is Macaulayite thinking.
    Goal: Consolidation of Dharmics
In this phase there is no outward push against Islam or Christianism, etc. but this phase has the following goals
  1. Consolidation of the Dharmics
  2. Finishing off Nehruvian Secularism, aka Islamo-Christianism as a platform
  3. Correcting the historical narrative of India, doing away with Macaulayism
  4. Introducing the Bharatiya worldview as India's defacto worldview.
Everything else comes after this phase! This is exactly what Narendra Modi is out to achieve. He is not out to execute a civilizational war.

He has spoken out about transforming India into a knowledge economy, he has talked about economic growth, he has talked about MIC. This is building the foundation for the catapult which would take Bharat to more ambitious goals.

It is unclear whether he would take India into the second phase, or whether a different leader would come for that. But for the first phase nobody is cut-out better to lead India through it than Narendra Modi. The first phase is Indian Secularism phase and that is how he would and should present himself.
RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5619
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RoyG »

Indian secularism is just secularism. No amount of injecting "dharmic amrit" is going to change it. Secularism is a European import which makes assumptions about human beings which aren't found in the dharmic traditions. Moreover, the most important component which is using the abrahamic lens of differentiating between the religious and non religious finds no mention in any strain of dharmic philosophical thought. Therefore, I don't believe in "redefining the indian secular platform." I believe in destroying it completely.
krisna
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5881
Joined: 22 Dec 2008 06:36

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by krisna »

pretty asinine discussion going on with NaMo saying "leader of all not just Hindus".

Only a Hindu who believes in vasudaiva kutumbakam can say it. Only a Hindu can say this. No Abrahamic faith person can say this. Check out all the countries with Abrahamic majority.


Majority of Hindus belive in live and let live unlike non Indian religions.


Only a Hindu majority country allowed a non Indian religions to grow in numbers over time. virtually no other country does this.

even America falls short on few parameters. No politican other Christian can aspire to the highest office in khanate. there are many others which can be named.


If NaMo supporters are going on stupid discussions on what NaMo says -- better don't vote for him. we want bette governance and development, equality of all, appeasement of none.

NaMo has been practicing all these.
1) equality in law and development with no discrimination to anyone.
2) good governanace, less corruption, faster growth
3) appeasement of none. he has not appeased any groups.

every Indian wants these. NaMo has been doing these for years.

All of a sudden some :(( :(( start some stupidity.

Guys have some sense and work for winning combo. he is doing what we all want.

develop India, no appeasement, equality in law and order, no riots, no discrimination etc etc.

sorry if have pissed some folks. It is not my intention.
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

RoyG ji,

Of course even "Indian Secularism" would be destroyed ultimately. But what is not possible is to jump over the "phases" of destruction. The issue is not one of whether "Indian Secularism" is the right concept for India, but whether it is the right concept AT THIS STAGE.

Those who do not support "Indian Secularism" for this stage, also do not have a right to hope for any "Hindutva" in India which should be expected subsequently! I say this, because changing the course of this nation, with hundreds of millions of Hindus estranged from their roots, and hundreds of millions of people belonging to minorities affiliated with foreign religious ideologies, with hundreds of millions of poor fighting for simple survival. India is the ultimate supertanker and its course can be changed only little by little. There are no magic wands.
disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 8423
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

varunkumar wrote:Well my friend, if Modi is a leader of Muslims too, then what is his problem with wearing a skull cap?
Red Herring. People have personal space and preferences, some of those are inviolable. And you should be aware that a photo can be misused to spread FUD. So much of FUD was done in Gujarat Riots that I am getting sick of anybody talking about "gujarat riots"., and one should grow out of this polemics. On the ground improved governance helps everybody.

Modi did wear a green shawl with Kalima. So now tell me which is important? Kalima or skull cap?
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Sigh. Same old, same old.

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

Yes Modi had no business making that statement, especially in a Sant Samaj setup, yes even Modi will be forced to offer some amount of accommodation.

We need to understand the "Hindu resurgence" people are hoping for and pinning their hopes on Modi for, is not going to happen in 2014 timeframe, we are far far away, the conditions are not remotely suitable.

Modi has always been, and will be, a secular, middle of the road inclusive leader. Just because the INC crowd started the "Modi helped Hindus in 2002" canard, that does not mean it is true. Maybe to some in Hindu camp it was a message that they wanted to hear, that some one was in their corner finally, in the corridors of power, and it helped Modi in election, but it IS not true. Modi is a panth nirpeksha, India first, all Indians are equal type of leader.

That is a fact and it will show.
AjayKK
BRFite
Posts: 1520
Joined: 10 Jan 2008 10:27

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by AjayKK »

Krisna ji, in an election, there is no good or bad or asinine! One must only project and make those statements which energise your cadres + keep the spirits high. I believe as of now, there are no major % of fencesitters from any major voting bloc. Those who do not want to vote for Modi will never do so. In such a situation, making any statement that adds nothing to the campaign but generates such a debate is a self-goal.

Also the followup in which he said "Mere poorvajon ne Hindu jana sukhino bhavantu nahin sikhaya, Sarve jana sukhino bhavantu sikhaya" is uncalled for.

Nobody wants any element in any speech which reminds of Love Purush. ( Sanku ji, maaf karna :) )
Lilo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4080
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 09:08

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Lilo »

varunkumar wrote:
Well my friend, if Modi is a leader of Muslims too, then what is his problem with wearing a skull cap?
Thats quite a discredited argument ... iam surprised you brought this up - even in MSM this came up recently with NiKu's statement on cap and thoroughly putdown from many (even un expected) quarters.

Our secularisms - IE Pratap Bhanu Mehta : Thu Apr 18 2013
Modi’s counter to ‘topi’ politics: Track-II mission to woo Muslims - FP by Sanjay Singh Apr 25, 2013
Last edited by Lilo on 27 Apr 2013 21:46, edited 1 time in total.
fanne
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4583
Joined: 11 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by fanne »

well I would think there would be fence sitters still and many voters that may change their vote from 3rd front to BJP. The fight is still on.It is at this margin (discounting EVM Magic) that election will be won or lost.
disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 8423
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

Fanne ji, those are not fence sitters, but "fence s8ers" who just throw stones into the pond to entertain themselves with the waves that come forth. They are at best ignored. I apologize for indulging them and further calling them above.
prahaar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2834
Joined: 15 Oct 2005 04:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by prahaar »

varunkumar wrote:
Arun Menon wrote:^+1, I find it disturbing how people would rather focus on words than deeds. This kind of attitude got us into this situations where we have such politics of fraud in the first place.
Words are very important -- they have a life and import of their own. That is why Congees call Godhra a "pogrom" and not a riot and RSS is called "communal fascists" and not Hindu cultural organization. Modi should watch his words carefully -- saying he is not a leader of Hindus only is a blunder. He should better choose neutral indirect words like "everybody in Gujarat benefits from my development work regardless of his religion or caste." Hindus don't root for him because of his bridges and roads but because he has come to represent their cultural aspirations and they consider him as one of their own.
Irrespective of whether you think it is a blunder or otherwise, and also irrespective of the fact that it may lead to electoral defeat, I believe he is correct. The leader of the nation is responsible for ALL the nation's children. Politics of Tushtikaran is dangerous, irrespective of the color it has (Green/Red/Saffron). Sabka Saath + Sabka Vikaas is what his campaign in Gujarat was, unabashed about his intentions.

The moment you start appeasement of sections based on identity, it is a downhill slope which has lead to the current situation. And people are asking for that. Hindus do not need any privileges to prosper, all they need is non-interference.
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

AjayKK wrote: Nobody wants any element in any speech which reminds of Love Purush. ( Sanku ji, maaf karna :) )
Perhaps now Saar, folks will better understand the conflicts and compulsions that dog the BJP.

But I do think that there are lot of fence sitters, if there was a Hindu vote bloc, well established and entrenched, then we would not see Congress in power for so many years in the first place.

Also the need to ensure that the 15% muslim vote does not consolidate in favor of Congress always remains. A Muslim vote consolidation is best gift that can be given to congress. Remember the dividends of Anatulay's remarks?

I believe lot of us on BRF significantly underestimate how deep the brainwashing/dhimmitude is amongst general public.

Indian politics is being run on one dhuri (pole) alone, whether and how much and in which direction the Muslim vote will consolidate, the Hindu voters are mostly confused, divided lot, voting on the basis of short term and petty issues, and no long term strategic thinking.

The seats which BJP wins in Muslim dominated areas comes only when multiple strong Muslim candidates break up the vote, (both in Gujarat and Bihar) + some amount of Hindu consolidation.
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

prahaar wrote: The moment you start appeasement of sections based on identity, it is a downhill slope which has lead to the current situation. And people are asking for that. Hindus do not need any privileges to prosper, all they need is non-interference.
A small caveat Sir, that identity based conflict will come again, it is inevitable, only that it is not the right time from Hindu perspective.
Atri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4153
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 21:07

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Atri »

Some old thoughts on Baba Ramdev ji.. Revisited this post after watching Namo in Haridwar...

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 2#p1107632
Atri wrote:@ Harbans ji,

Your PoV has my support too. I think I have a huge leftist and naastika side in me as well. But there is fundamental difference. I will explain how a westernized convent educated Indian like me who is trying to remove the glasses and see the real deal about what it is being a dharmik, sees this affair.

The fact that genuine sanyasi like BR had to indulge in "worldly affairs" show the extent of loss, India has had. When the Grihasthas and Brahmacharis have failed their duty, the sanyasis have to come out and get "involved" in an idea. One has to understand under what conditions, one takes up sanyasa. It is one of the most dire vows where one has to do the Shraadha-karma (symbolic funeral rites) of oneself. People may laugh on it, but I have known personally many such Fanne-Khans who returned back to home in today's secure world, as they could not withstand the idea of one's own "Tarpana". It is a complete formatting of thinking procedure and painful and forcible severing of one's linkage not only with family, caste but one's identity. Narendranath Dutt becomes Vivekananda. Ramkishan Yadav becomes ramdev. Aptitudes of both may or may not be comparable, SV is dead, BRD is still alive and can do many things ahead, who knows. But commitment is definitely comparable and commendable. The age when Narendranath Dutt was reading books and joining in Brahmo discussions with his father, BRD was pulling plough in farm with is illiterate father and suffering paralysis. The formative years of SV and BRD are totally different, so are the eras in which they exist and also their deeds. So, comparison is moot point.

The fact that a "Jeeva" went so far had to return back to "bondages" tells us that there is something terribly wrong with India and Hindu society today. Western education might scoff this way of looking towards life. We all are educated in that school. yet, some of us, become MUTUs and start ridiculing this sacrifice creates disconnect. The DIE refuse to accept that this is sacrifice.

Yes, there is corruption in every aspect, including sanyasa. But, there are people who genuinely indulge in Daana. When an "ashrama" which upholds everything that traditional India stands for starts attracting money from people who genuinely wish to donate for the cause of "Sanskriti Rakshana", the DIE type start calling it "Business Empire". This is painful to all those of us who are not so deracinated and have maintained the roots.. The DIE fail to see and understand that not everything is business.

Baba is not economist. Baba is not supposed to be economist. But he commands trust of many who are reputed economists. People like Vishwabandhu Gupta, Rajiv Dixit and many others are not stupid jerks. They know what they are talking about. These suggestions about foreign banks, ordinance to nationalize bank accounts are not administrative impossibilities as it is made out to be. It is something which is doable. At least it is something which can be argued upon. Yet, you have seen the behaviour of Regime and Regime sympathisers.. They are singularly dismissive of BRD.

The people who came out to support BRD were people drawn from all classes. The people who donated money to BRD to form his 1100 crore trust came from all classes. They did so because they believed that something "good" can happen through this institution known as "ramdev". And a lot of good is happening. It would have continued to happen so, if politicians and policy makers of India were doing their duty.

I don't think BRD has any political ambitions for his own. People attacking him, attack not only his lack of knowledge, but also his sincerity. With all due respect to AH and kejariwal and civil society (an oxymoron in itself), how many people's respect do these guys command. I have been seeing AH for almost 30 years now in MH. While he is a relatively well known for his tussle with Suresh Jain, he does not command respect of a dedicated work-force. Kejariwal, Bhushans, Kiran Bedi, nobody does.

In Democracy, nothing can happen without "Lok-Sangraha". And this "Lok-sangraha" is done by BRD, hence there were so many people present for AH's fast yesterday. When erudite people like Somnath ji start willifying such figures, they only need to do a reality check. Democracy needs people's participation and How many people respect arrogant knowledge? Once people start participating, the knowledgeable folks are attracted too and through these people, things happen.

The Jalaram Bappa of Guj, or Sai Baba of Shirdi, Gajanan Maharaj of Vidarbha and similar other "modern saints" were neither scholars, nor erudite pandits. they did not even preach anything. Yet, today they have created a lasting infrastructure which does Lokseva. Similar is example of Sathya Sai baba of Puttuparthi. "Guni" and "right-minded" people are attracted towards such "Banyan tress" and these trees give not only shelter to distressed, but opportunity to talented too to show their talent in particular field in right direction. BRD is such an institution.

He had potential to be Aadhunik Ramdas Swami OR Adhunik Vidyaranya Swami. may be he will, OR may be his "jeeva" has decided something else. Whatever the decision of that Jeeva is henceforth, he will be and should be judged based on his past actions which, until today, are nothing but glorious and virtuous.

This is how aam fata-chappal kisaan of india, clerk of India, dukaandaar of India sees BRD. and this is how Janta-Janaardan will judge him.

Criticism per se was never unwelcoming. What was annoying was Buddhi behind it. Hence such response.
Vipin_Upadhyay
BRFite
Posts: 712
Joined: 01 May 2008 14:11
Location: Play for country not for the crowd: MSD

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Vipin_Upadhyay »

all this debate whether NaMo turning secular is futile.

Just chant with me --- MODI IS THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE #MITOA :D :)
support NaMo -- support Bharat.

Image
disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 8423
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

Lilo wrote:While searching for 2002 statement came across this gem

I watched it when it was telecasted. It was indeed an extempore beautiful speech. And after that seeing the paid media campaign against Modi, I was apalled. This guy worked hard to bring peace and justice and the paid media is doing just opposite that. It is the CongI and the paid media who are racist and "communal" and anybody supporting them, trotting the same arguments from paid media is committing a crime.
member_23629
BRFite
Posts: 676
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_23629 »

The moment you start appeasement of sections based on identity, it is a downhill slope which has lead to the current situation. And people are asking for that. Hindus do not need any privileges to prosper, all they need is non-interference.
Very noble thoughts, but what if a "section" insists on privileged treatment based on its religious identity and votes only for those who are willing to grant it? For this certain section, loss of privileges over others has always been a proof of its persecution. The moment Modi actually starts treating every section equally, he will lose the vote of Muslims anyway because they are not interested in being put on an equal pedestal with others -- they want higher status in a society than kaffirs. How do you think Congress is running its shop -- they have understood this basic Muslim pscyhe. Hence "Muslims have first claim on resources," supreme court judgements don't apply to them (Shah Bano), the law of the land doesn't apply to them (separate personal law), Kashmir has special status separate from India because it is Muslim majority and there are separate airport terminals for Haj while non-Muslims are shown the middle finger.

Most of you guys are drowning in political correctness and have no clue that Muslims have no use for Hindu politicians who don't appease them. If Modi says he will treat all communities equally, Muslims will be the first one to kick his butt in favour of Maulam Mulayam or Digvijay Singh. Let me tell you other thing as well: Muslims in Gujarat vote for Modi not because they are enamoured of him as a ruler who treats everyone equally, but because of fear. They know what happened after Godhra and realize that the same dudes are still in powerful positions. The day BJP loses power in Gujarat, then we will see how many Muslims will vote for Modi.
Last edited by member_23629 on 27 Apr 2013 23:04, edited 4 times in total.
Manish_Sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5128
Joined: 07 Sep 2009 16:17

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Shri Modi on Sarabjit, Bhartiya Soldiers' beheading & italian marines:

http://www.narendramodi.in/shri-modi-ta ... ni-prison/
geeth
BRFite
Posts: 1196
Joined: 22 Aug 1999 11:31
Location: India

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by geeth »

Very noble thoughts, but what if a "section" insists on privileged treatment based on its religious identity and votes only for those who are willing to grant it? For this certain section, loss of privileges over others has always been a proof of its persecution. The moment Modi actually starts treating every section equally, he will lose the vote of Muslims anyway because they are not interested in being put on an equal pedestal with others -- they want higher status in a society than kaffirs. How do you think Congress is running its shop -- they have understood this. Hence "Muslims have first claim on resources," supreme court judgements don't apply to them (Shah Bano), the law of the land doesn't apply to them (separate personal law) and Kashmir has special status separate from India because it is Muslim majority.

Most of you guys are drowning in political correctness and have no clue that Muslims have no use for Hindu politicians who don't appease them. If Modi says he will treat all communities equally, Muslims will be the first one to kick his butt in favour of Maulam Mulayam or Digvijay Singh.
I think you rant is crossing the limits of logic. First you say that if Modi treats all equally, he will lose HINDU votes..Now you say he will lose MUSLIM votes if he treats all equally (as though he would have got it otherwise!). Make up your mind tell exactly what Modi should do to satisfy YOUR needs.
member_23629
BRFite
Posts: 676
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_23629 »

^^^ Please pay attention to what I have written -- it is very simple to understand, though I doubt you are interested in understanding anything. Let me make it easy for you in one line: Muslims will never accept an idol-worshipper as their leader or ruler, regardless of how much secular gymanstics he does. At best, he may be used as a useful idiot for some time. So if Modi is going that path, it is futile. Muslims will never come to him, he will lose Hindu votes too.
geeth
BRFite
Posts: 1196
Joined: 22 Aug 1999 11:31
Location: India

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by geeth »

^^^Leave it whether I understand anything that you write or not, Pls tell me what Modi should do now.
geeth
BRFite
Posts: 1196
Joined: 22 Aug 1999 11:31
Location: India

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by geeth »

But who said Modi is talking of equality to woo Muslims? He could be doing it to woo sikular Yindus, you know..as I said before. If a Commie can be converted, that much better. If a Kongi can be converted, still better..
Sushupti
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5198
Joined: 22 Dec 2010 21:24

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

In this cynical and devious process, the opposition (lead by the Bharatiya Janata Party) also played a role. It is perhaps farfetched to say that the BJP threw the 2009 election, but some of its senior leaders in Delhi certainly have partaken of the UPA loot. Knowledgeable people say the opposition{D4} share is one-third. That would partly explain why the United Progressive Alliance is no longer afraid of the Bharatiya Janata Party. The central BJP does not have the heart to take on the government. It is in this scenario of gloom and doom for the people that Anna Hazare made such an impact. The forces he unleashed are bound to benefit Arvind Kejriwal in the Delhi assembly election. Kejriwal will become the third force in the Capital which neither the Congress nor the BJP can ignore.

Nationally, however, the one man who is upsetting the Congress and the BJP’s calculations and unmasking their cozy relationship, in a fashion, is Narendra Modi. Both the Congress and BJP’s central leaderships hate him equally. It would not be surprising if they have a tacit understanding in the anti-Modi campaign. Nitish Kumar is part of this group from the National Democratic Alliance side. The trouble, though, is that the electorate has had enough of the Congress and central BJP leaders. Lal Krishna Advani and Sushma Swaraj count for nothing with the public. They may not win their Lok Sabha seats again without the support of one or other BJP chief minister. Narendra Modi has become the face of the Bharatiya Janata Party, and if Advani & Co. succeed in their shenanigans to keep the Gujarat chief minister down, the BJP and Sangha cadres will revolt. It is either Narendra Modi or nothing for the Bharatiya Janata Party.

But till he comes, there will be more of the same from the United Progress Alliance government. There will be brazen disregard for public opinion. The electorate would be treated with contempt. And the loot will continue till the last day of Manmohan Singh’s term of office. Only Narendra Modi has the capacity to stem the rot, and he faces implacable all-round opposition for that reason.

http://www.newsinsight.net/Catchmeif%E2 ... age=page-1
Locked