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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 18 Sep 2012 00:25
by pentaiah
Shamd >>
You have basI ally rehashed what I said
Israel by itself doing this is like Bush saying Mission accomplished! :D

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 01:07
by anmol
Libyan's show off Ambassador's body at a Morgue in Benghazi :-

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 02:23
by devesh
things not going the way of Sunni agenda in Syria. we should expect to see the beginning of Rebel rollback by Assad's forces in Northern Syria. the frustration among the rebels is showing. for all their gains, Assad has managed to stick on in N. Syria. his forces have not been routed in that sector. and the rebels are increasingly directly begging their foreign supporters for "aid".

I would estimate that by the end of September, rollback of Rebels in Northern Syria will be evident.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 02:33
by RamaY
^ Why do you think sudden outburst against US consulates?

For one such video coming from US, one can get double videos from EU. But EU consulates do not get attacked.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 02:35
by Prem
Why Should Israel Get A Pass?

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com ... -pass.html
If India decided that, once and for all, it refused to live under the threat of an unstable and nuclear-armed Pakistan and intended to invade, we would never tell them it was up to them. If Taiwan had feared an attack from China across the Formosa Strait during the early 1970s, would Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger have told them it was their call rather than ours whether to launch a surprise attack? Even to put the question shows the absurdity of a superpower’s acquiescing to allies on critical questions of war and peace in a nuclear age.To be sure, Israel is a special ally, but that does not entitle it to make the decision on matters where United States interest and power are inextricably and centrally engaged. It is inconceivable that the United States would permit another ally dependent on American funds and American defense systems to take such a decision unilaterally. It is also inconceivable that we would permit another foreign government to intervene directly and forcefully in our political process to garner popular support for its policies over the objections of the administration.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 02:43
by devesh
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terroris ... ians-video

UN: Syrian regime, rebels both increasing attacks on civilians



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/human-rig ... 90527.html

Syria: End Opposition Use of Torture, Executions


notice the startling change in rhetoric. no longer are they "freedom fighters" for "freedom" and "democracy".

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 02:56
by devesh
http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe ... story.html

UK: Syria intervention would need full US backing

British Foreign Secretary William Hague says any intervention in Syria would only be possible with the full backing of the United States.

Hague told Parliament’s foreign affairs committee on Tuesday that he wasn’t advocating a military intervention, but that the option could not be ruled out amid an escalating crisis.

‘‘It would require intervention on a vastly greater scale than was the case in Libya, with no prospect at the moment of agreement at the U.N. Security Council, and would require the full involvement of the United States,’’ Hague told the committee.

Hague acknowledged he saw ‘‘major disadvantages’’ to an intervention.

He said he plans talks on Syria next week with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly meeting in New York.

need translation. what does this mean in UK-speak?

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 03:03
by ramana
UK wants massa to take the risk and costs.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 03:05
by devesh
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49074531

What do you make of reports of the formation of a new rebel group call the Syrian National Army, apparently supported by Turkey, France and the U.S.?

his is more or less the revolution “Take II” and hopefully lighter on the jihadist element. It’s the Western powers trying to right a wrong, to undo the ill-conceived strategy that they started out with. What is disturbing is that this signals that the Free Syrian Army has failed and that there is a need to start over, which will result in a serious loss of momentum, and possibly another conflict front that buys into Assad’s overall plan to weaken the rebels. The “new” rebel group is not in itself a bad development and its commander, defected Major General Muhammad al-Haj Ali purportedly is against international intervention in the form of the establishment of a no-fly zone, and he is correct in this at this point because Assad has blurred the lines too much to make a no-fly zone effective.


writing clearly on the wall...

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 03:15
by devesh
more from the above article:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49074531

Why will this new group be more effective?\

It may not be. I think what is most important to understand, is that groups like the Free Syrian Army and this new Syrian National Army are by no means the backbone of the revolution. These groups largely are represented by exiled opposition leaders or defected military figures, who are not cohesive. Most of them are in Turkey and Jordan. On the ground, though, there are smaller rebel groups who have managed to establish their own organizational structures and who have been successful in replacing the regime, but not on a national level, only in small areas that are easier to control. It is this momentum upon which we need to build, and it is these smaller groups that the new Syrian National Army should focus on organizing into a national undertaking. If, from exile, the Syrian National Army can coordinate the efforts of these smaller groups instead of attempting to usurp them, they will be successful.

so, they want to replicate the Russian Revolution. but they forget that the Tsar was killed off and his army was in total disarray before the various "soviets" could coalesce under the command of the Bolsheviks. Syria is far from that.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 03:24
by shyamd
French made it clear, they said they need US support to knock out the air defence which is over a vast country. And nothing will happen without US nod anyway due to proximity of russia. Even Libya they needed US logistical support. Syria is a different story.

After November maybe Obama will decide what he wants done on this file

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 05:05
by pentaiah
After elections Ombaba will focus on ending foreign engagements and not start new adventures, tijore khali hai. Wars are a huge luxury even for printing press driven economies...

One of the reason Bibi going crazy is he knows after election he has to cool his heels, and even Syria will be relegated to back burner the way Lebanon was after the barracks bombing, and mind you the republican deity called Regan was reigning emperor then...

Syria will be reduced to a civil war "a la Lebanon " with the eventual elimination of Azzad with out direct external intervention of inventions

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 05:10
by pentaiah
British the shop keepers they are want to sit in the back seat and not take the heat by involving American lives and money. This will let them get away with out their embassies or consulates getting gutted. England the land of Cunning

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 06:01
by devesh
also if Syria is kept on a low burner "civil war" for a long time, the Islamists will win. the "idealists" or more "leftist" oriented will be sacrificed while the Jihadis will be kept warm and cozy for when the fruits of power are finally in their hands. the longer this conflict goes, the greater the exhaustion of all other forces except Islamic Jihad.

it is in our interest for Assad to win and do so relatively quickly. neither his immediate fall, nor a protracted conflict are in our interest. both will lead to Sunni consolidation.

ultimately, Syria will most likely fall for the Sunni Jihad. that consolidation seems unlikely to halt now.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 06:53
by pentaiah
Assad will go eventually it's by drip drip drip if Syria is left alone
Why? there is no money to buy support even if armed conflict stops
The replacement of Assad will be militant Islam group which will continue to oppose the international community you know who :wink:

The seed for Islamic militant gene was sowed by Jimmy Carter and Zibigniew, it was fertilized and well groomed by Regan (importing Egyptian and KSA mullahs, arming to teeth including Nuclear weapons to Pak) the rest is history, the sad story is the SD, GoTUS never learn and the world is collateral to these unilateral decisions

Parklam...
Lets dekho
Aage ka hal
Allah Jane kya hoga
Moula Jane kya hoga
Ibtadaye ishq me....

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 07:59
by abhishek_sharma

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 11:08
by habal
You must look at Saudi-Mossad link for Libya operation. Both have grievances against US. The Saudis 'Wahabbi mid-east' plan has been nipped in Syria and Israel is not getting support for it's 'Iran plan'. The Saudi sunnat network is the one behind all agitations in Sudan & Libya, which are Sunni dominated countries and culturally amenable to Saudi manipulation. Same with Pakistan and elements in India. It seems that the CIA intelligence network is too well-penetrated by mossad at sword edge and Saudi sympathizers in deep state to be of any use of unkil. And if these two get together, then unkil's intelligence is well and truly screwed, both literally and philosophically.

And then again the Camp Bastion raid by the Pakis against unkil also timed with this, & it's time for unkil to wake up and smell the putrid air behind this sunni covert warfare and stop using Sunni proxies blindly in Syria & Iran & everywhere and anywhere.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 11:22
by shyamd
pentaiah wrote:British the shop keepers they are want to sit in the back seat and not take the heat by involving American lives and money. This will let them get away with out their embassies or consulates getting gutted. England the land of Cunning
Lol it's funny how everyone goes off on rhetoric.

UK has deployed substantial amount of its special forces and RAF personell INSIDE Syria already. The scale has not been seen since the Iraq invasion. RAF has placed strike squadrons in Cyprus on the ready.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 12:19
by habal
Saudis are positioning themselves to take over Asia & North Africa (maghrib) after US withdrawal from great power scene. They are being allowed to do so by US deep state because the likes of Kissinger would like nothing better than a substantial loss of asian lives and destabilizing asian economic region.

& that is where all the GCC economic bandwagon and defence/security cooperation which is suddenly being thrown around starts making sense. The Saudis want GoI to aquiesce in their latest gameplan and thus some crumbs thrown in our direction. It is part of the old plan for them, just some expansion to take up the void left by lessening US influence and Iran is both Saudi-Israel mutual enemy, so they are jointly into this.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 12:45
by shyamd
Just to insert some reality - KSA played a marginal role in Libya. It was the Qataris that took on project Libya and is trying to increase its profile there via investments and links with Islamists and political influence. But even then all the millions they spent couldn't get them victory lol and the Qatari CP lost his temper. KSA itself is in retreat mode in Maghreb. Only Algeria and Morocco are serious allies. Egypt - a major power in the region is now 'independent'.

As for Mossad - you know they didn't even know Gaddafi had AQK designs. There was an internal investigation as to how they missed it and had to revisit all their intel on AQK as a result

----------------
IDF conducted a surprise exercise in the Golan with Air force and artillery units.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 16:22
by wig
cross posted in iran news thread also
Actually, Fereydoun Abbasi-Davani said the electrical lines powering the buried plant at Fordow from the nearby city of Qom had been blown up by unknown saboteurs. The same thing happened at Iran’s Natanz plant at an unspecified earlier date, he told the annual member-state session of the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna.
http://nation.time.com/2012/09/18/iran- ... tractions/

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 17:01
by devesh
shyamd wrote:
pentaiah wrote:British the shop keepers they are want to sit in the back seat and not take the heat by involving American lives and money. This will let them get away with out their embassies or consulates getting gutted. England the land of Cunning
Lol it's funny how everyone goes off on rhetoric.

UK has deployed substantial amount of its special forces and RAF personell INSIDE Syria already. The scale has not been seen since the Iraq invasion. RAF has placed strike squadrons in Cyprus on the ready.


it's funny how you need to protect massa UK against "rhetoric". after all, if it was just rhetoric, then on a forum dedicated to Indian defense, why the prickling need to defend UK even against such trivialities?

on a separate note, UK has piggybacked on US for all mid-east ops in the last half a century. US puts the money and hard resources (much greater than the UK), and the reward is reaped more by UK than US.

as such, strictly speaking, in India's PoV, US is an immature power which thinks its cousins, the UK are the "greatest ally". maybe they are right to an extent. but they perhaps underestimate UK's ability to hold a grudge against "upstart Yankies".

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 17:10
by shyamd
Just stating the facts - is that a problem now? And as you have rightly pointed out the UK have joined in on almost all operations in the middle east (as do most of the other allies for that matter).

Strategic reality for a small nation is that they always ally with a power (regional or global), its no surprise.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 17:20
by svenkat
Also US has been influenced by British imperial view.US is the successor of the British Empire.Therefore Britain will have a say disproportionate to its actual 'contribution'.Just as they do in the sub-continent.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 22:15
by shyamd
NATO has asked Turkey to shift its military resources from the Aegean sea to the Syrian border.
Dempsey told Ankara no about safe zone and he doesn't favor the idea as the US doesn't want to get involved in another conflict.

--------
Opposition and some other websites are reporting that Bushra Assad (sister of Bashar and wife of Assef Shawkat who was assassinated) is now in the UAE. I said last month that Assef and Bushra were given diplomatic visas in early July by the UAE in preparation for defection. It is still unclear whether she has joined the opposition.

Meanwhile Tlass is trying to take the lead after his visit last week to Amman.

DGSE is busy recruiting agents in refugee camps.

Western operations inside Syria thus far have been of little use to rebels - they are there for their own reasons IMO - Chemical weapons.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 19 Sep 2012 22:39
by pentaiah
according to my inside sources, RAF squadrons are spitting fire in cypress. Also meanwhile , my sources are indicating that RuAF has taken to plight with tails between hind legs.
TIFWIW

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 20 Sep 2012 02:51
by shyamd
In 2 weeks, General Mustafa Tlass the former minister of defence will address the Syrian Armed forces and urge them to join the Syrian Free National army.

-------
In surprise drill [during holidays], IDF simulates escalation on #Syria/n front following Assad's fall http://t.co/L67ofxZX

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 20 Sep 2012 05:34
by brihaspati
Tlass will not be long the head of the phantom force. He is not trusted by the powers that matter.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 20 Sep 2012 18:53
by shyamd
@zaidbenjamin: #BREAKING: Assad relocated his chemical stockpile to be in areas near the borders with #Israel - The Joint Commander of Free Army Spokesman

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 20 Sep 2012 19:04
by pentaiah
It's a logical, anticipated and desired ( by Israel) move by Assad as a response to Israel conducting war games close to Syrian borders.

If Bibi can't start a big war he can try small one with some more of Holman heights gone from Syria
War is always profitable to the powerful :mrgreen:

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 20 Sep 2012 20:18
by shyamd
Reports Of Syrian Maneuvers Prompt Israeli Military Concerns | JewishPress http://t.co/1bCpxwDU

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 21 Sep 2012 02:32
by Prem
Nuclear deal? New North Korea and Iran pact raises international concern


Snake oil wala aaya, Snake oil bechne wala ayya
North Korea and Iran appear to be increasing their dealings in nuclear technology and missiles with each other under a breakthrough agreement reached between the two nations in Tehran three weeks ago.It’s likely the tempo of shipments of technology to Iran has increased,” says Bruce Bechtol, a former US intelligence official and author of two books and other studies on North Korea’s military buildup. “We have seen a large number of North Korean scientists visiting Iran.”
Concerns about the nature of North Korea’s exchanges with Iran have risen since Iran's science and technology minister, Farhad Daneshjoo, and North Korea’s foreign minister, Pak Ui-chun, signed the deal to cooperate on science and technology after a summit of “nonaligned nations” held in Tehran in late Augus
North Korea and Iran have been cooperating for years but never previously had a framework agreement that confirmed their longstanding relationship and also made clear their desire to build on it. The timing of the deal is significant, since Israel has been pressing for concerted action against Iran’s nuclear program while North Korea under new leader Kim Jong-un has been coming out with harsh denunciations of South Korean policies.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 21 Sep 2012 02:48
by Philip
Largest naval military buildup the world has ever seen

Policy & Issues Topics
September 17, 2012
By: Robert Tilford
http://www.examiner.com/article/largest ... -ever-seen
Cruisers, aircraft carriers, battleships, destroyers, submarines and minesweepers from 25 nations are converging on the strategically important Strait of Hormuz in an unprecedented show of force as Israel and Iran move towards the brink of war, according to the British newspaper the Telegraph (see article: Armada of international naval power massing in the Gulf as Israel prepares an Iran strike http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... trike.html ).

This is certainly one of the largest build up and concentrations of military forces in the region since WWII.

The paper indicates that western leaders, including the United States are convinced that Iran will retaliate to any sort of pre-emptive military attack by attempting to "mine or blockade the shipping lane through which passes around 18 million barrels of oil every day, approximately 35 per cent of the world’s oil traded by sea."

See video: Breaking: Iran to close Strait of Hormuz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzPHAFk7aGc

The Strait of Hormuz is a strait between the Gulf of Oman and the Persian Gulf. It is the only sea passage from the Persian Gulf to the open ocean and is one of the world's most strategically-important choke points. On the north coast is Iran, and on the south coast is the United Arab Emirates and Musandam, an exclave of Oman.

At its narrowest, the strait is 21 nautical miles (39 km) wide (see article: World Oil Transit Checkpoints http://www.eia.gov/countries/regions-to ... OTC#hormuz ).


See video: Iran: "We Can Destroy US Bases in Minutes & Israel Is A Good Target Too" - Elite Revolutionary Guard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAoHSJGR ... re=related

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 21 Sep 2012 12:46
by shyamd
Rebels seized another town in central Syrias Raqqah province. Still fighting ongoing in Damascus even after rebels were said to have pulled out.

Rebels seize border post with turkey

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 21 Sep 2012 20:13
by brihaspati
shyamd wrote:Rebels seized another town in central Syrias Raqqah province. Still fighting ongoing in Damascus even after rebels were said to have pulled out.

Rebels seize border post with turkey
Do you ever come across any news item that shows the "rebels" in bad light - say massacres, rapes, torures, staged "gov killings", leading foreign journalists into crossfire zones to have them killed to score propaganda brownies, or even the favourite Islamic way of killing civilians by beheading or impalement and then passing the blame on to gov, or any defeats, retreats, losses?

I keep on wondering - since you source most of your news from the web. In the search process you never come across alternatives to what is required by the GCC?

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 21 Sep 2012 20:59
by shyamd
I have posted negative news here actually - see here for an example

And I'm more concerned about the bigger picture - seizing/losing towns, battles, large operations by both sides. If you want to drill down on the individual cases - nothing stopping you from doing that since you have the time.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 21 Sep 2012 22:38
by brihaspati
shyamd wrote:I have posted negative news here actually - see here for an example

And I'm more concerned about the bigger picture - seizing/losing towns, battles, large operations by both sides. If you want to drill down on the individual cases - nothing stopping you from doing that since you have the time.
You posted:
@martinchulov: Inside the city (aleppo) the popular support for FSA is not strong. In countryside much higher. Tough to gauge regime army morale
Inside the city - support not strong: that is as far negatiev as you can go? You immediately balance it out with quoting that "countryside much higher", and "tough to guage" army morale [implying of course by the quoter - that it could go either way]. Overall it does not show negatives for the rebel groupings.

Did you find any news about the rebels militarily losing - moving away - retreating, suffering setbakcs, losses - anywhere? Since you are indeed interested in the bigger picture, and bigger picture of course for you does not contain massacres/rapes/executions for propaganda which become merely incidents for you?

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 21 Sep 2012 22:50
by brihaspati
shyamd wrote:Rebels seized another town in central Syrias Raqqah province. Still fighting ongoing in Damascus even after rebels were said to have pulled out.

Rebels seize border post with turkey

Here is a link from someone from the spot and not belonging to Assad camp:
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012 ... urkey?lite
Rebel fighters in Syria claim to have seized another border crossing into Turkey, from the control of President Assad's government forces. But around the capital Damascus, the rebels are losing ground. Three southern suburbs have been retaken by the president's forces. ITV's Bill Neely reports from Damascus.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 21 Sep 2012 23:30
by ramana
Folks instead of arguing with ShyamD nothing stops you from posting news contrary to his information. In the end the forum benefits from the balance in news.

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Posted: 21 Sep 2012 23:36
by shyamd
brihaspati wrote:
Inside the city - support not strong: that is as far negatiev as you can go? You immediately balance it out with quoting that "countryside much higher", and "tough to guage" army morale [implying of course by the quoter - that it could go either way]. Overall it does not show negatives for the rebel groupings.
:rotfl: I copied and pasted a journalists tweet and you automatically assume it is mine. Don't you think I could easily have edited the bit about lack of support in Aleppo easily if I wanted to? Says everything about what you are trying to do here - unfortunately I have no time to fight little petty arguments.
Did you find any news about the rebels militarily losing - moving away - retreating, suffering setbakcs, losses - anywhere?
Plenty - I said that FSA initially were made up of admin services and weren't effective at all. I also said that they are not interested in holding territory yet, I've also posted that they are withdrawing several times and described how Asad troops are trying to cut off supply lines and the problems FSA face in moving the arms inside syria... just to name a few.
Since you are indeed interested in the bigger picture, and bigger picture of course for you does not contain massacres/rapes/executions for propaganda which become merely incidents for you?
Yes I'll leave that for you to post since you have time. Care to contribute or more interested in causing petty arguments?

Last post on this topic.