Shooting in Wisconsin Sikh Gurudwara

habal · Post by **habal** » 06 Aug 2012 14:45

This film exposes the greatest story never told:

The Earth has been visited by people from other worlds who are not malicious, but in fact concerned for the future of humanity.

A cabal of military, industrial and financial interests have kept this contact and what we have learned from it secret for over 60 years.

Their secrecy is meant to suppress the knowledge that can liberate the world from the yoke of oil, gas, coal and nuclear power and replace the current world order with one of New Energy and true Freedom.
amardeep comes at 1:02
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n0FO_HtF5s

look also at comments

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Aug 2012 15:10

Yet another terrible indictment of the US's unwillingness to come to terms with its violent gun culture,that is immune to any concrete action against the spread of guns thanks to the huge votebank and the fig leaf of the US constitution that ives an individual the "right to bear arms".Despite massacre after massacre,looking for a mainstream politician from either of the two parties who espouses the curtailing of gun possession is akin to the tale of Diogenes looking for an honest man in Athens with a lamp in the middle of day!

However,there are equally serious angles to this massacre,that was clearly a hate crime againt Sikhs,which seems to have surfaced in good measure after 9/11.That is the utter ignorance of most Americans about the rest of the world and even the varied communities within their own nation.Joe "six-pack" often knows little beyond the twon in which he was born and cares little for knowledge as long as booze,broads and gas are cheaply available.The attitude of the local police is also questionable.Had it been a black man who was the shooter,it would've been instant news with no blackout or cover-up attempt at his background or motive,unlike now where the shooter is supposed to be white.Imagine the different stance of the police if the shooting was at a synagogue or church!

It is tragic that this massacre was perpetrated against the Sikh community of the US.Our heartfelt condolences to those individual and families affected.Nothing will happen though top prevent such occurences from repeating.It is election year remember?! Sadly,we will still be analysing this and other such cases when the next one happens.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 06 Aug 2012 15:18

habal wrote: The Earth has been visited by people from other worlds who are not malicious, but in fact concerned for the future of humanity.

amardeep comes at 1:02
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n0FO_HtF5s
look also at comments

This kind of film is intended to be a distraction, to preoccupy credulous people.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 06 Aug 2012 15:37

Too sad an incident, my sincere condolences to the families.
If there were multiple shooters, what happened to the rest of them? seems like they escaped.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 06 Aug 2012 15:39

Philip wrote:Yet another terrible indictment of the US's unwillingness to come to terms with its violent gun culture

The US gun culture is certainly troubling to the elites. The numerous such incidents in recent times strengthen the hands of those who want to disarm the population.

The situation is best expressed by this quote of Solzhenitsyn:

"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you'd be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. Or what about the Black Maria sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffeur -- what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked. The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!"

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 06 Aug 2012 15:41

Do Muslims in USA wear turbans ? AFAIK, most muslims outside Af-Pak wear that small skull cap. Then how can anyone mistake Sikhs for Muslims, that too in a Gurudwara which will have signboards in English ?
Thing don't add up even after accounting for abnormal stupidity.

habal · Post by **habal** » 06 Aug 2012 15:49

Wade Michael Page Identified As Sikh Temple Shooter

Police have now confirmed the identity of the suspect in a shooting this morning at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin: 40-year-old Wade Michael Page, according to Fox News’ report Monday morning.

On Sunday, police confirmed that seven individuals were dead, one of whom they believed to be the shooter. One of the temple’s committee members, who communicated with individuals inside the temple, relayed that the shooter was a white male in his 30s.

url

[Image via]

Pranav wrote: This kind of film is intended to be a distraction, to preoccupy credulous people.

please don't be so presumptuous. Which redneck or american chauvinist today doesn't have access to net ? this is 2012 for God's sake and if by now they didn't identify or research into who were their targets, they were just airdropped from Jupiter. And the supremacist just moved into neighbourhood and within a week was desperate enough to preptrate a hate-crime on some turbanned people he thought were muslims. Give good sense a break. In either case it was a hitjob, only question being who was their target.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 06 Aug 2012 17:46

RIP to the victims.

Mods, please post elsewhere if you think its not appropriate here.

Wisconsin temple shooting and Khalistan Sikh Terrorists

Sikh representatives have been repeatedly claiming that their ‘visibility’ (turbans, beards) make them a target for those who confuse them with Islamic fundamentalists, and this hostility may have led to the Wisconsin shooting in a Sikh temple.

That may be partly true, but a much bigger factor behind the negative feelings some Americans have towards Sikhs is the participation of some Khalistani Sikh groups in terrorism against Hindus and democratic India.

The real reason why many Americans confuse Sikhs with Muslim terrorists is that they have seen disturbing images of Khalistan Sikh terrorists slaughtering innocent people just like their Islamic counterparts (like al Qaeda).

The similarities between Islamic terrorist groups like al Qaeda and their Khalistani equivalents in the Sikh community, like Babbar Khalsa, are astounding. According to the Vancouver Sun, both sets of genocidal groups are headquartered in and backed by Islamic Pakistan.

This conflict has ensured that Sikh temples and religious celebrations have acquired a bad reputation.

Sikh temples themselves are viewed with great suspicion because according to the CBC, some of the largest ‘gurdwaras’, such as the Ontario Khalsa and various Malton/Rexdale temples, openly display pictures of killer terrorists and host terrorist fundraisers.

In 1984, Sikhism’s holiest temple, the Golden Temple, was occupied by Khalistani terrorist killers until India’s PM Indira Gandhi and the great General KPS Gill liberated the facility with heroic Indian Army troops.

In Canada and Austria, fights involving weapons like kirpans, often linked to the struggle with Khalistani fundamentalist factions, have resulted in casualties and police intervention.

Such incidents are unheard of in Hindu temples.

The media attention that resulted cast a pall of suspicion on all Sikh temples, which may account for why the Wisconsin gurdwara was targeted by a crazed gunman.

A minority of Sikhs support a genocidal idea known as ‘Khalistan’, a mythical ‘Land of the Pure’ carved out of India’s Punjab state, where 40 percent of the population is non Sikh.

This pure Sikh nation would be created by slaughtering and ethnically cleansing non Sikhs, which is why genocidal Khalistani Sikh groups massacred tens of thousands of Hindus in the 1980s and 1990s.

Ordinary Sikhs and their heroes, like former PM Indira Gandhi and Army general KPS Gill, together smashed the movement.

The 1984 slaughter of over 330 mostly Hindus on an Air India jet blown up by suspected Canadian Khalistani Sikhs, the assassination of Indira Gandhi, and the 1984 occupation of the Sikh’s holy Golden Temple by Khalistan terrorists all helped destroy the reputation of Sikhs in North America.

In more recent times, the North American Sikh community has often allowed issues to be hijacked by groups sympathetic to the genocidal Khalistani aims.

In Canada, the World Sikh Organization, whose website claims that people have the right to agitate for ‘Khalistan’, helped turn many Quebeckers against Sikhs by demanding that they be allowed to carry sharp knives (kirpans) into the Quebec legislature, depsite security regulations. Fortunately, Quebec parties rejected this outrageous demand.

Recently, Sikh fundamentalists in many North American cities mobilized crazed followers to march and demonstrate in support of a convicted terrorist bomber named Mr Rajoana, who helped assassinate an elected politician in India.

Every year, thousands of Sikhs celebrate a religious festival called Vaisakhi, and handfuls of fundamentalists display floats and parades and speeches supporting genocidal Khalistan ideals in cities like Vancouver.

To rehabilitate their image, Sikhs must urgently take the following actions:

1. Sternly repudiate and ostracize all elements which support the genocidal goal of ‘Khalistan’

2. Disassociate themselves completely from any groups that claim the right of people to agitate for ‘Khalistan’

3. Demand federal law enforcement action to liberate Sikh temples from the clutches of Khalistani extremists,as the Indian Army liberated the Golden Temple

4. Ask for police and military assistance to remove all temples groups, and floats from religious parades like Vaisakhi

5. Finally, the organization that I belong to, Canadian Hindu Advocacy, stands ready to assist Sikh groups to expunge themselves of the poision of hatred and fundamentalism.

True Sikhs must reach out to us and learn from our reasoned, moderate, and unbiased approach.

We welcome the opportunity to join hands with our Sikh brothers.

Ron Banerjee is a published journalist and director of the Canadian Hindu Advocacy, Canada’s largest and only representative of the 500,000 Hindus in Canada

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 06 Aug 2012 17:52

jamwal wrote:Do Muslims in USA wear turbans ? AFAIK, most muslims outside Af-Pak wear that small skull cap. Then how can anyone mistake Sikhs for Muslims, that too in a Gurudwara which will have signboards in English ?
Thing don't add up even after accounting for abnormal stupidity.

Taliban wear turbans and have beard. You can count on a supremacist white trash to be not able to distinguish between them and the Sikhs. Yes they are that dumb.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 06 Aug 2012 17:56

habal wrote:
please don't be so presumptuous. Which redneck or american chauvinist today doesn't have access to net ? this is 2012 for God's sake and if by now they didn't identify or research into who were their targets, they were just airdropped from Jupiter. And the supremacist just moved into neighbourhood and within a week was desperate enough to preptrate a hate-crime on some turbanned people he thought were muslims. Give good sense a break. In either case it was a hitjob, only question being who was their target.

There are still about 30% Americans with no internet access at all and do not use it.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 06 Aug 2012 18:06

Even if this section of Americans had internet, it wouldn't make a difference since "research" is the last thing they will do online. Per capita, Americans are the most ignorant people I have seen anywhere and when their mind is made up, its made up.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 06 Aug 2012 18:16

Pattom wrote:What does Piyush Jindal, of Punjabi descent, have to say about the massacre. Haven't heard a peep out of him!

Why will he destroy his meal-ticket?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 06 Aug 2012 18:34

Or for that matter why hasn't the governor of South Carolina, a Sikh, Nimrata Randhawa (Nikki Haley) made any comment?

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 06 Aug 2012 18:48

Could we please have one thread without sanctimonious sermons and piskology?
at least till the ashes turn cold.
and please stop speculating.

rony's link might be worth shelving for debate later not now

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 06 Aug 2012 18:53

I think it is obvious from the news coverage, this incident has been given a step motherly treatment as compared to say recent Denver massacre. If you think about it, after the incident happened, every news channel covered this incident 24/7 as if there was no other incident is worth mentioning or it was reported as something not consequential. Now look at the news coverage about this massacre, yes it was mentioned, yes it was reported, but this is nothing as compared the coverage it received for Denver incident.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 06 Aug 2012 18:55

Heartfelt condolences to the family of all those killed! A ghastly affair!

This white trash needs to be totally made naked and their superiority clothes be ripped away!

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 06 Aug 2012 19:10

Gov. Haley Responds to Sikh Temple Shooting in Wisconsin

Gov. Nikki Haley has released a statement in response to the shooting earlier on Sunday at a Sikh Temple in suburban Milwaukee that killed seven people, including the alleged gunman.

"It's very sad to see something like this happen to a peaceful place of worship. Our prayers and condolences go out to the families of the innocent victims and the family of the heroic officer in this senseless tragedy," Haley said via her Facebook page.

Dozens have been reported injured by our colleagues at Oak Creek Patch, including a police officer.

Haley's parents are practicing Sikhs, but she has identified herself as a Christian, though she has attended Sikh services in deference to her parents' faith. There is a Sikh Temple in Chapin on Broad River Road.

Gov. Haley's father, Ajit, who is one of the leaders of the temple in Chapin, was contacted by Patch, but did not wish to comment about the shooting until more information was available.

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 06 Aug 2012 19:23

If its a coordinated incident involving multiple "shooters", any inspiration from swarm tactics of mumbai 26/11 needs to be looked into.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 06 Aug 2012 19:33

^^ There was only one shooter.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 06 Aug 2012 19:45

Eventually it will be declared that the shooter was a super-duper war veteran who only had deep love for his country and a decorated war hero, only that he was yet another victim of PTSD and US gov should do everything to rehabilitate these people to avoid such 'incidents' from happening.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 06 Aug 2012 20:05

killer -- white supremacist. ex army.

i saw many people from the gurudwara talk on the news stream. these are ordinary people, grocery store owners and such. mostly first generation indians, even the young ones. only heard one second generation girl.

each of them spoke eloquently and in measured terms. conducted themselves with great composure and remained matter of fact. even the chairman of the the gurudwara, who clearly didnot know much english gave a good account of his and his community's grief and pain.

this is a tragedy for the entire Indian community here. 6 amongst us have been murdered by a supremacist. There may have been various cultural aspects of the US which might have contributed to this. But it is also a fact that two of the policemen put their own lives on the line to protect the rest. For those of us living here, knowing that authorities will act to protect us gives dhairya.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 06 Aug 2012 20:08

It is really a sad incident. Dont exactly know if it could be called a Hate crime or domestic terrorism. In America , lot of such incidence keep taking place, mostly in Schools. Must be due to mental troubles . However Hatred against communities are not unknown and America has plenty of it. Could be. The Gun Culture is so prevalent that it exacerbates such tendencies.

But My condolences to the families of lost souls. RIP to departed.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 06 Aug 2012 20:14

Arjun wrote:
Anujan wrote:Some people are never satisfied.
'Terrorism' is definitely an improvement - but the real test would be whether the media deigns to term it 'Christian terrorism' (assuming religion turns up as the motivation).

If a Jehadi could be a terrorist then certainly a crusader would also be a terrorist. But this seems more an offshoot of either hate or gun culture. or combination of both.

Is it confirmed that religion was one of the cause for the attack?

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 06 Aug 2012 20:15

From Madison Sikh leader says the community won’t be intimidated

Seven people, including a gunman shot by a police officer, were killed, police said. Three others, including an officer, were in critical condition at a local hospital Sunday night.
..
The Sikh Society of Wisconsin-Madison/Middleton was established in the mid-1990s, said Harjinder Pangli, a member of the Society’s board of directors. The current temple was built in 2008.
..
In Oak Creek, Anand Adavi, president of the Hindu Temple of Wisconsin in the Waukesha County community of Pewaukee, visited the scene to show support for the Sikh community.
..

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 06 Aug 2012 20:28

Dipanker wrote:
Taliban wear turbans and have beard. You can count on a supremacist white trash to be not able to distinguish between them and the Sikhs. Yes they are that dumb.

I thought motives of the killer were just speculations till now

habal · Post by **habal** » 06 Aug 2012 20:33

shaardula wrote:killer -- white supremacist. ex army.

Ex-army and that too worked for a very specialized division.

He served at Fort Bliss, Texas, in the psychological operations unit in 1994, and was last stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, attached to the psychological operations unit. The details of his discharge were not immediately clear.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -Page.html

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 06 Aug 2012 20:53

jamwal wrote:
Dipanker wrote:
Taliban wear turbans and have beard. You can count on a supremacist white trash to be not able to distinguish between them and the Sikhs. Yes they are that dumb.
I thought motives of the killer were just speculations till now

It's too much to expect Joe Sixpack to know the Sikh turban from a Taliban turban. Many Sikh's like Bhindranwale wear the turban in a different way, unlike the style of Manmohan Singh. I am sure many non Sikh Indians would have trouble distinguishing.

These people are just motivated by xenophobic hate. He might have lost his job to India/China, or had a family member killed in Afghanistan and carried this anger. It even might be totally unrelated reason of his wife leaving him and him going nuts. Or losing money in the stock market, I remember many cases like this in 2001.

For such people, anyone non white is fair game. Don't expect them to do research and plan this out.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Aug 2012 21:07

At this time we should rally for the victims. We should all declare we all are Sikhs.

I have heard of catharisis, but didn't know it could mean bringing out your inner Pakstaniyat.

BobbyP's post and the one linked by Rony are about inner Pakistaniyat being revealed.

--------------------------
I would hazard a guess and think there is a Paki connection to this shooting.

it just doesn't make sense for a ex-US Army to mistake Sikhs in turbans with Taliban in black turbans. The Sikh turban is very distinct one. The Taliban one is a black rag wound into a rope wrapped around in a crude fashion more like a rope skull cap!

Am waiting for a Paki inspiration to this guy.

This guy is not a Joe Sixpack.

habal · Post by **habal** » 06 Aug 2012 21:15

here's a pic of the dead assailant

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 06 Aug 2012 21:39

Page was a “frustrated neo-Nazi” who led a racist white supremacist band, the Southern Poverty Law Center said Monday.

Link

member_23367 · Post by **member_23367** » 06 Aug 2012 21:40

This is a Very Sad incident. This is nothing but cold blooded mass murder of 6 Indian Sikhs. May their soul rest in Peace.My condolence to the bereaved family members.
Most of the people in this country are Poker Faced.You really don't get to see their real expressions.But deep inside they are filled with hatred.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 06 Aug 2012 21:56

What is known as of a couple of hours ago:
http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-w ... age-2012-8

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 06 Aug 2012 22:02

BobbyP wrote: The Sikhs never had to justify their existence in India, as rightfully they never should have to. They never had to and never will have to go on TV explaining the tenets of their religion and explain themselves in a humiliating manner, as they have had to do in the US.

So, in view of all of the above, these North American Sikhs, who never claim that they are Indians - they always say they are from Punjab or from someplace in South Asia "between the borders of India and Pakistan", want to separate from India and dont mind the humiliation they suffer in the US culture and society. This recent temple shooting may be the latest divine omen that nothing good comes out of being unfair and unjust. If you are unfair and unjust in one area, providence shows its disapproval to the unfair and the unjust in other settings, perhaps even far far away.

There was a Sikh gentleman on TV yesterday explaining Sikhism and CNN made it clear that it "broke away from Hinduism". CNN never lets a chance slip.
To his credit, he did say both Punjab and India. He did not say South Asia. But CNN then put up a board which said Sikhism stared in "South Asia".

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 06 Aug 2012 22:08

This "frustrated neo-Nazi" label doesn't make the assailant a fringie at all, in case that's what the media or folks here are trying to suggest. The US, and especially the Midwest, is teeming with neo-Nazi outfits and militias, many of whom have leader members who are ex-servicemen. This is the norm around these parts today, and I've met many such people. Some of them even wear a hybrid German-American flag pin on their collars in public. And especially since the Obama presidency, the number of militias has skyrocketed, and gun sales have gone through the roof.

One thing such people are very wary about are non-WASP groups who live on US soil that also have militant links or tendencies. E.g. the Nation of Islam, Moslems in general. This is in addition to their conspiracy theory of China's calculated hostile takeover of their country, in league with a section of their own society. All this mixed up with Biblical end-of-days hysteria and how the US will become a battlefield.

Based on my interactions with people from such a background, my guess is that they see Sikhs also as a potentially militant group of "towelheads", and therefore suspect when the next "civil war" starts...since they may ally with the Obama types. I'm not kidding. These guys are quite normal when you meet them personally, and if they happen to take a liking to you then they become solid pals. One such person I know started telling all other contacts that "Indians ain't Ayrabs" after getting to know me, and he even wanted me to join him and his buddies on shooting practice. But if they don't like you, then you're going to find out pretty soon. Its possible that these guys researched Sikhs on the internet, probably saw some KhaliSTAN propaganda and news about the terror campaigns ("stan" = towelhead = dangerous = unwelcome), concluded that these guys are terrorist types and decided to put them on notice. Really ironic.

Some grassroots relationship management is needed for Indians in the US - not just some lobbying on the Hill. Generally these folks see Indian immigrants as harmless guys, but resent that they are taking away a lot of jobs. The other stereotype about Indians is that the Indian customer will "Jew you down", i.e., they are miserly makhi-choos and clannish types who will bargain with you to death. But still they have far less hatred for Indians than others like Mexicans and Moslems - once they know the difference. Many of the hard right types consider India a potential ally. Hopefully the US Sikhs will use this opportunity to identify themselves and educate the American people on this. And they truly do need to make it clear that they are Indian at this point, if they aren't doing it already.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 06 Aug 2012 22:16

Carl wrote:... But still they have far less hatred for Indians than others like Mexicans and Moslems - once they know the difference. ...

That might have something to do with there being far less Indians than Mexicans and (non-Indian) Muslims in the US.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 06 Aug 2012 22:20

Carl ji, I can attest to that. In two occasions I was verbally assaulted when at Purdue (supposedly Indiana was birth place of KKK and even lynching). Once one guy in a truck backed up on seeing me and swore "mother f*** go home" and another time when 911 got kicked off, 3-4 guys came to me drunk at night and swore "we bombed the hell out of your Afghanistan". And in NJ, there was also a group called "Dot busters". If you board NJ transit trains, there is a possibility you will find swear words itched on the insides of the trains asking Hindus to get out of NJ.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 06 Aug 2012 22:28

Superb post Carl-full of facts and reasonable inferences.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 06 Aug 2012 22:42

darshhan wrote:My advice for all PIOs living in US including Hindus and Sikhs.

Which part of the US do you live in?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Aug 2012 22:43

Sikhs in America who support Khalistan have a choice. As long as they root for Khalistan they will have solid support from Pakistanis and zero support from India.

member_23687 · Post by **member_23687** » 06 Aug 2012 22:53

ramana wrote:
BobbyP's post and the one linked by Rony are about inner Pakistaniyat being revealed.

I will leave it upto you to rethink what you said there about me. Its ok, I will not take it to heart and move on, although it is strongly offensive to me to be called anything remotely Paki.

We all are creatures of our own experiences. My experiences may differ from yours.

I do want to take this opportunity you have given me to say this on a positive note.

Over the last 25 years or so, I have noticed that the Sikh community in North America has socially withdrawn from the other Indian communities, at least in large cities and towns where Sikhs have sizable populations. I would like to urge all our Sikh brothers to come back and join the rest of us Indians back to form one strong and powerful community. It is the cliche about us Indians repeated a million times. If we are united and organized as one, all of us Indians will be better able to withstand hate groups, hate philosophies, hostile US govt or state and local government policies. Our unity will in practical terms increase our security and that of our children on the ground, in our homes, in our neighborhoods and yes, even in our temples.

Separately we will be picked off easily by the various lunatics and even the rational interests in this country that resent our prosperity and our presence. Together, we can do much better.

In addition to grieving, this is my one suggestion to actually reduce the chances of such incidents occuring in the future. We cannot eliminate them, but over time, our united strong posture will certainly deter a lot of such attacks going forward.

Ramanna, it is all well and good to say that we are all Sikhs today. Indeed we all are. But if not just in crisis, but on a daily basis, WE BECOME ALL INDIANS, then it will actually have a positive effect on the ground.