RajeshA wrote:I think 80 should be the maximum age for electoral politics.
RajeshA saar,
I think the max age should be 65. But, that may not be acceptable. So, 70 it should be.
Link
It seems the avg. life expectancy in India is 65. While, the avg. life expectancy for the world is 70. So, 70 is a very fair age to ask someone to retire from politics(which means retiring from panchayath, mayor, MLA, MP, Governor, President, PM, CM, state cabinet ministers, national cabinet ministers, ...etc).
If the party wants, such people can continue in party positions. But, ideally, they should also retire from prominent party positions(like party presidentship, alliance chairmanship/convenership, ...etc).
The best thing is for these people to continue in some kind of advisory role. These advises should not be binding.
ramana wrote:2014 elections will be like the US elections of 1828 that brought in Andrew Jackson and changed America for ever. before that it was the Whigs who were really royalists without a Crown.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson
....
Andrew Jackson (March 15, 1767 – June 8, 1845) was the seventh President of the United States (1829–1837). .... A polarizing figure who dominated the Second Party System in the 1820s and 1830s, .... His enthusiastic followers created the modern Democratic Party. The 1830–1850 period later became known as the era of Jacksonian democracy.[1]
Jackson was nicknamed "Old Hickory" because of his toughness and aggressive personality; he fought in duels, some fatal to his opponents.[2] ........ He fought politically against what he denounced as a closed, undemocratic aristocracy, adding to his appeal to common citizens. He expanded the spoils system during his presidency to strengthen his political base.
Elected president in 1828, Jackson supported a small and limited federal government. He strengthened the power of the presidency, which he saw as spokesman for the entire population, as opposed to Congressmen from a specific small district. He was supportive of states' rights, but during the Nullification Crisis, declared that states do not have the right to nullify federal laws. Strongly against the national bank, he vetoed the renewal of its charter and ensured its collapse. Whigs and moralists denounced his aggressive enforcement of the Indian Removal Act, which resulted in the forced relocation of thousands of Native Americans to Indian Territory (now Oklahoma). Historians acknowledge his protection of popular democracy and individual liberty for United States citizens, but criticize him for his support for slavery and for his role in Indian removal.[3][4]....
Excellent, Ramana garu! Great comparison!
The first president of US was George Washington in 1789. Jackson became the president after 40 yrs heralding a new era in US politcs.
Nahru became the PM in 1947. Now, it is 2013. So, about 66 yrs. So, it took more time in desh. But wait. Nahru remained in office from 1947 to 1964. For about 20 yrs. If we remove those 20 yrs from 66, then we get about 46 yrs. So, if one considers the Nahru rule as a continuation of brit rule, then desh is also on schedule. It is the Nahru period that is keeping the desh behind schedule...
krisna wrote:cadres are enthused that NaMo has struck at the heart of congis foundation.
No one in the last few decades has been clearer about the target and the fight taken to hood of termite colony.
NaMo has coined the term - congress mukth Bharath--- if you read the sentence it is a huge huge statement.
He has correctly laid the probems of India at the doorstep of congis first parivar.
expect vicious backlash at NaMo and his supporters at all levels.
expect fight to finish.
either NaMo or the termite queen finish each other.
India will be forever indebted to him irrespeticve of the outcome.
salutations to NaMo for correctly diagnosing the problem-- as this is the first necessary step to free India.
Indeed it is a huge statement. And he is going for jugular and holding back no punches. I have never seen this kind of direct condemnation from the so-called 'tall leaders'. They were giving titles like 'durga' to the dienasty.
Hari Seldon wrote:vivek.rao wrote:Rahul Kanwal @rahulkanwal 9h
75 rallies in 4 months. @narendramodi nationwide campaign blitzkrieg to start end June. Mega rallies in Telangana, Maharashtra, UP & Bihar
Jiyo mere laal... tere mooh mein ghee-shakkar, rosgulla-pastry....!
'bout effing time the juggernaut rolls through the fence-sitting regions headfirst.
In his speech Modi mentions the sinister red corridor plan "pasupati se tirupati tak". Time to visit the affected states (with full security bandobast, of course) and maximize seats from those states - JH, Odisha, Bihar, parts of WB, CT, Uttara Andhra...
BTW, for the records, am unsure about this grand chankian angle to the ugly but necessary inter-generational struggle within the BJP. Good to know the Sangh has chosen and chosen well.
The INC will now overturn its entire bottomless bag of dirty tricks. We haven't seen anything yet.... everything from Sanjiv-butt style outright fabrications to maoist supari attacks to doe eyed belles suddenly appearing before the news cameras claiming they've been molested by Modi... you get the idea.... sheesh..
Modi to address 'Hunkar' rally in Patna on Oct 27
Time for Ni-tush to catch some illness and stay away, of course... Lol! BTW, I very much like the idea of Modi junking any kinda deference to this 'NDA ally' and going ahead with a planned appearance in the state. No need to ask for JDU permission. Bihar Ni-tush ke baap ki jaagir nahin hai, after all...
Hari saar,
I feel that that kongis have already emptied all their options in regard to NaMo(except the 'final solution'). They have been after him for so long that So, I don't think kongis have anything left in their arsenal. Infact, loh purush seemed to be their final bet and they lost it too.
RajeshA wrote:Modi would be touring AP in July. It would be interesting to see whether he goes for Telangana, or whether he tries to build up support in rest of AP, e.g. Coastal AP so as to put pressure on TDK to enter into a coalition with BJP.
It seems to me that AP, KTK, & MH(& perhaps Guj) finance the deshi politricks. AP was financing the Kongis and KTK was financing BJP(Loh Purush faction). And both the gangs financing them are business partners(and both are right now in jail).
Kongis have regained KTK, so they may be more bold on AP. But, they may also fear the rise of BJP.
Regardless, I think the small states is a very bad idea and should be shelved. If I am not wrong, RSS is against Telangana because of the Nizami history. I hope that BJP is wise enough to realize the long term negative impact on the desh with such policies. And there will be much dynamo effect if a small state is created in this manner. Infact, Telangana itself was revived after the creation of Jharkhand. KCR was inspired by the feat of Shibhu.
Gold-Gali was financing Loh Purush faction. And he was the one needling Yeddy. He had the full blessings of Susma. Now, Susma is the shishyaa of Loh Purush. Mainos were being financed by Yesu Reddy. Yesu Reddy and Gold-Gali are business partners. Gold-Gali was the minister in KTK while Yesu Reddy was the CM of AP.
Now, Yesu Reddy's son and Gold-Gali both are in jail. If the money trail is followed, it can easily reach susma aunty as well. It seems she went close to Maino to protect herself from such a disaster. Why would Maino protect someone in opposition? Only reason would be that she would prove useful to her.
shaardula wrote:sudarshan, what i say does not matter. atleast 1 whole year, nm will have to answer these questions. you know in all this, the guys who were burnt down in that train, nobody talks about. i canno tell the name orthe story of even one of the train victims, hopefully you can. when we have ended up creating stories graver than those in that train, we must sit back and think, wtf where we thinking?
shaardula wrote:btw, how many of the chaatiphaads here rushed out to the streets with machetes in their hands and blood on their minds, instead of their keyboards, when they heard of the massacre in the train?
shaardula wrote:abhijit, ask about mumbai, ask about GJ. mumbai justifies GJ does it? people in GJ are not people are not people or what? only financial capital people matter?
Now, Theo has competition(or company).
Setting up strawman, trolling, off-topic, shoot-&-scoot, obfuscate, create artificial equal equal, putting words in others' mouths, pretend-to-sit-on-a-moral-high-horse, speak on behalf of the entire region(S.TN or N.KTK) ...and on and on.
Narayana Rao wrote:
I posted that I have spoken with top Pariwar person and Modi it is. Yet all the gurus are having Dhothi Shivers.
In BJP final decision of things is with RSS and LKA jinna secular paki drama and NG sabatage and celebration KA defeat etc sure created lot of ill will. He can not expected to enjoy power for long after that. Neither SS nor Y Sinha etc or with Sangh or tries to be part of Sangh values.
One thing all of you forgot for the first time (second time if you count ABV) a full time pracharak with Indic value base is going to be a PM. You can not imagine what it means. Return of Haidavi Swaraj after the time of Chathrapathi - Ironically the such strong leader leader like the only iron man of India S. Patel comes from Gujarath of all the places.
I agree saar. This is really a major landmark event. First and foremost, BJP has entered into the hands of next generation. Secondly, if Modi becomes the PM, it is truly a big big event. It has been a long time since a conscious Hindhu sat on the throne with full public support. PVNR did sit, but he had many compulsions.
If only Sardar Patel had not agreed to give power in charity on the advise of Gandhi! I hope there won't be such a redux now in Modi's case.
How Bose was denied despite overwhelming support(and democratic values were ignored):
Wiki wrote:By 1938 Bose had become a leader of national stature and agreed to accept nomination as Congress president.
He stood for unqualified Swaraj (self-governance), including the use of force against the British. This meant a confrontation with Mohandas Gandhi, who in fact opposed Bose's presidency,[22] splitting the Indian National Congress party. Bose attempted to maintain unity, but Gandhi advised Bose to form his own cabinet. The rift also divided Bose and Nehru. Bose appeared at the 1939 Congress meeting on a stretcher. He was elected president again over Gandhi's preferred candidate Pattabhi Sitaramayya.[23] U. Muthuramalingam Thevar strongly supported Bose in the intra-Congress dispute. Thevar mobilised all south India votes for Bose.[24] However, due to the manoeuvrings of the Gandhi-led clique in the Congress Working Committee, Bose found himself forced to resign from the Congress presidency.[25]
Wiki Link
How Patel was denied despite overwhelming support(and democratic values were ignored):
In the 1946 election for the Congress presidency, Patel stepped down in favour of Nehru at the request of Gandhi. The election's importance stemmed from the fact that the elected President would lead free India's first Government. Gandhi asked all 16 states representatives and Congress to elect the right person and Sardar Patel's name was proposed by 13 states representatives out of 16, but Patel respected Gandhi's request to not be the first prime minister. As the first Home Minister, Patel played a key role in integration of many princely states into the Indian federation.
This time, it seems like Susma is hoping to be the Nahru. But, it seems Loh Purush wants to be PM himself.
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harbans wrote:My sources inside tell me this has been planned 4 months ago, all are on board. This is intended to make BJP much stronger. Just wait and watch.
Good one, saar. Soon, there may be theories that Maino is also working to protect Modi in some ultra-chanakian way. Were not such theories floated to justify ManMohan Singh's paki policy?!
Hari Seldon wrote:SO basically, LKA will become to BJP what NTR became to TDP - a photo to be garlanded and praised ritually every now and then in public. Work goes on as usual otherwise.
Nice analogy. Yep, it looks very similar. The only difference is that in case of NTR it was a palace coup against a kitchen cabinet. While, in this case, it is a proper democratic process.
CBN continues to be chided as a back-stabber (specially by Yesu Reddy batch). But, in this case, it is not back-stabbing at all. It is an open and public process.
Anyway, NTR had once said on record that TDP was created by him so TDP will go with him. He was proved wrong. CBN ruled for 9 yrs(longest serving CM of AP).
Anyway, it was NTR's second wife who was playing the prominent role in ruling. Basically, NTR was also not ready to retire and allow the next generation to take over. So, NTR and LKA are very similar in this regard.
I guess it is difficult to give up on all that respect, power, privileges, perks and attention. I mean retiring means people stop caring about you.
yavath vitta-uparjana-shaktah
thavath nija-parivaro raktah
pashya jeevathi jarjara dehe
varathapi kopi na pruchchathi gehe
(as long as you earn money
till then, your own people will love you
once your body is wrinkled
in your old age, no one even talks to you)
So, old people become more attached to power because once they lose power, they literally lose everything. No one cares for them anymore. Power is the only thing that gets them the attention. If they have the power, they can even indulge like Sri ND Tiwari.
I guess, it is difficult to suddenly adjust to change in power equations, particularly if one has lost power(or privileges). It takes time to adjust and reconcile.
vina wrote:So Lalloo was right after all. Pradhan Mantri ban na, Advani Ji ki kundli mein nahin hai !
Lalloo would be rejoiced with the stupidity of Nitis. If Nitis could have controlled himself, Lalloo would have been finished politically.
I really hope, for the sake of people of Bihar and desh, that this Lalloo candidate is not allowed to revive. Many consider him to be a clown, but I think he is a villain. It is politicians like him that are a scourge on people. He destroyed Bihar completely.
Hari Seldon wrote:Very keen on hearing sri sanku's take on this white swan event....
BTW, interesting to know that hge hasn't retired from politics, no sir. He's kept his LS seat (else woh Gandhinagar bypolls also BJP will easily win) and has kept the NDA chairmanship to create downstream khujli and nuisance value alive... Don;t count out the old goat just yet... thi is just the beginning of negotiations via leaked letters. Tomorrow we'll also see leaked auction bids of party posts for campies...
Exactly. He is still in race. Keshubhai redux.
Loh Purush is really out of race, then let him(or his acolytes) say that they are not interested in PM-ship. Will they say that? Of course, not.
Narayana Rao wrote:Very bad on LKA part. But his will be tragic story of the fall. He was never accused of anything corrupt etc in entire political life and resigned when Jain hawala was created. Most of the current BJP leadership was broght up and guided by him for decades. Yet there is a time for people to step aside and allow others to take over. The remark that " this is not the same idealist party" is really a very low blow. If it is so why primary membership and NDA chairmanship. He want to keep that to back stab Modi and BJP when time comes.
True. But this is a really good thing. At least, it is all happening in open and publicly, instead of doing back-stabbing in closed doors like(Patel and Bose were duped).
In fact, Modi would also have been denied his chance yesterday. It was the media focus, social media, cadre pressure, public attention, RSS intervention, and by-poll results which forced the dill billi to retreat.
saravana wrote:Cadres may be enraged both ways. Quite a few may turn against Modi to bring back the old order. Irony is these same people were putting party above people. And frankly this will be the legacy of the man. One way Atri-ji is right. When the tide goes down, people will get to see who is swimming naked. 2019 will be a realistic target
I don't think Loh Purush will gain any sympathy. On the contrary, he is coming across(in public perception) as a stubborn senile oldman who refuses to see reason despite attempts by RSS, BJP and NaMo.
In fact, I think it is NaMo who is the winner. Loh Purush is staking all his credibility, yet is unable to even put scratch on the image of NaMo. NaMo has been dignified, calm and focused. It is Loh Purush who is coming across as greedy for power despite his old age.
prahaar wrote:It is the RSS's toughest test after emergency. I hate to say this, but that is the need of the hour: If it can prove support to a backward caste individual who is fighting the entrenched predominantly upper class + upper caste leadership, it will signal a strong message about its ability to incorporate individuals from all backgrounds without any glass ceilings. Pu.MB was on record to say that RSS will not back down from appointing even a Dalit Sarsanghchalak, but it will not do it as a tokenism. It will be done only as and when the right individual rises (and many such individuals are present in the pipeline already).
RSS proved its mettle this time by respecting the popular sentiment. If RSS had remained neutral, then it was possible for Loh Purush faction to continue with delay till the post-election situation.(As Pranav has pointed out).
Chandragupta wrote:NaMo has publicly claimed that Advani is his guru. He said this in a programme hosted by Rajat Sharma. He said something like I can't be compared to Advani because he is my guru.
If NaMo is indeed his shishya, then why so much khujli with his ascent? Truly pathetic behavior.
Saar,
thats the nature of power. Moha maaya is a powerful thing.
putraath api dhana-bhaajam bheethih
sarvathra esha vihitha rithih
(people have fear from their own sons on the account of wealth-sharing
this is an evident custom everywhere.)
James B wrote:
Nice one. But, it seems RSS is not playing Dhritarashtra. RSS is playing Shri Krushna and NaMo is playing Arjuna.
BTW, Bhishma was on Kaurava(Adharma) side... So, Loh Purush invoked wrong analogy.
Pranav wrote:Muppalla wrote:Yashwant Sinha is spinning and spinning like anything.
He is right that the Media played a role. However, the intention of the paid Media was to damage NaMo's chances by playing up Advani's comparison between NaMo and Shivraj. It boomeranged.
The other factor was the bye-election outcomes of Modi and Nitish.
All circumstances were in alignment for Modi supporters to make the push.
Yep, if it were not for media focus, they would have tried to manage it in closed rooms and dupe the people and cadre. Thats why they were irritated with the media focus. Media, on its side, was also trying to damage NaMo by showing the fissures in BJP. But, everything helped NaMo.
Susma had threatened to go back. But, she had to stay, perhaps due to the fear of cadre reaction. She scooted as soon as the decision was made. She did not even attend the next step. Yashwanth came out and immediately held a press meet. The very next day, Loh Purush resigns all the posts, except BJP primary post and NDA chairman post.
The pattern is quite clear. They would have definitely denied Modi, if weren't for the media attention(and consequent attention of cadre and public) and RSS intervention.
vivek.rao wrote:Advani is playing this drama. He is doing it for MAINO and his games are played by paid media.
His mission: I want to lead BJP to defeat In 2014, if not I will destroy it now itself from inside
His last option is to try and restrict BJP to 160-170. That gives him(or his acolytes) a chance to emerge as a 'consensus candidate' in NDA.
So, he will thwart the chances of NaMo. NaMo will be pushing the accelerator and Loh Purush faction will be trying to push the breaks.
Notice that, it is only NaMo who is attacking the Kongis and dienasty. Loh Purush or his faction are only focused on NaMo... That in itself tells everything there is to say.
----
I personally feel that it is good that everything has come out into open. All this backdoor dealing is not good for democracy. Whatever it is, come out in public. Loh Purush has problem with NaMo, fine. Come out in public and clearly spell out what are the objections. Let the people judge. The same applies to everyone and all parties.
Trying to protect the images of so-called 'tall leaders' is not at all important. The important thing is to keep it transparent.
---
Now, Yashwanth Sinha was saying that it is in Indian culture to respect the seniors. It is true. But, there is also responsibility on seniors in Indian culture. Seniors should care and protect the juniors. And when the time is right, pass the baton. Trying to hang on to power and throne till death is not in Indian culture.
There is a story in some Purana:
There was once a King. One day, his queen was bathing him. Yep, his own queen was bathing him. It was a head bath. Suddenly she started shedding tears which fell on King's body.
King was surprised at this and asked,"What happened dear, why are you crying?"
Queen plucked a hair from King's scalp and showed him. It was a grey hair.
Then, the Queen explained her reason for crying," My dear, I am crying, because your hair are greying. Which means, you are getting old. That means, we are reaching the twilight of our lives. The thought saddened me."
Then King became grave and replied,"You are right. I am getting old. It is time for me to retire to forests and start practicing spirituality. I have been ruling the state in dharmic manner till now. But, now it is time for me to take up full scale spirituality to concentrate on after-life."
Queen was stunned. Then, she finally said,"I will also follow your lead." King agreed.
After the bath, King convened an emergency meet of all courtiers and subjects. In the court room, he declared his decision to retire from politics and go to forests. Then, he declared his eldest son to be his successor. The King had already groomed his sons well and the eldest son had also reached the appropriate age.
When this decision was announced, all the courtiers including the son(who was about to get the throne) became deeply sad.
They requested the King to revert his decision. But, the King was firm on his decision. The eldest son pleaded again and again. But, the King was not ready to hang on to throne despite the old age.
The ministers asked,"Sire, why do you insist on retiring? All the people, subjects, courtiers and ministers want you to continue. Then, what is the cause for this sudden decision?"
King replied,"I have ruled when it was time to do so. I am lucky that I have got such loving and loyal subjects. I am lucky that I have got an adoring wife. I am lucky that I have been able to rule in Dharmic manner to benefit people. I am lucky that people have trust and respect in me. I am lucky that my sons have all been obedient and well-behaved. But, now I am getting old and it is time for me to prepare for the after-life journey. And for that I must take up spirituality on full scale. So, I have to give up the active politics and retire."
Then, the people and courtiers said," so, you are afraid that death is approaching and you are preparing for after death? Alright, will you continue to rule, if your life time is increased?"
King laughed and said," How will you do that?"
They all replied," We will pray to Sun God...(arogyam bhaskarath icheth) Please give us permission to do so."
King agreed.
They all went to a holy place and started performing various rituals to please the Sun God. After some time, a rishi came there and taught them a proper mode to worship and invoke Sun God in quick manner.
They followed the advice of the rishi and went to a particular holy mountain. Then continued to worship Sun God in the mode taught by the rishi. After a few months, Sun God appeared to them and granted a 1000 years lifetime to the King.
They all were cheered and went back to their kingdom. They related the happy news to the King. But the King immediately was deeply distressed to hear the news.
He said," If I live for 1000 years, I would have to watch all of you die in front of my eyes. Because, you all do not have long lives. I'll have to remain and watch while all my dear ones depart. It is a punishment. Alright, you all have earned 1000 years lifetime for me by praying to Sun God. I will also pray to the Sun God and earn 1000 years lifetime for all of you."
He asked how and where they worshiped the Sun God. They gave the detailed instructions to the King. King followed the instructions. And in due course, Sun God appeared and blessed all the King's citizenry with 1000 years lifetime.
So, they all lived happily for 1000 years.
----
Regardless of whether the story is true or fiction, the point is that the King/leader/senior must care for subjects/followers/juniors. Expecting rights(respect) is not enough. One must also carry the responsibility.
And once one is old, one must give way to the young. Trying to hang on to the power is never encouraged in Indian culture.
----
Atri Saar and Sanku Saar,
you guys are wrong on this one. Loh Purush is not trying to protect NaMo, he is the prime nemesis of NaMo right now. In fact, if it were not for Loh Purush, there is not much that UPA can throw at NaMo(except of course, the 'final solution').
). The rift inside BJP is real and I was telling page after page that this is not media manipulation. when push came to shove this is what happened.
