Indian Army : News and Discussion

[Pranav]

To shield Rajiv Gandhi, govt aims to limit probe

DNA / DNA Correspondent / Friday, March 30, 2012 10:15 IST
As the parliamentary panel overseeing working of the defence ministry said it plans to summon army chief Gen VK Singh for flagging the country’s lack of defence preparedness, the government began a fire fighting exercise to limit the probe, making the case to shield the Congress Party’s first family from any adverse result if the CBI tries to go into the root of the deal.
...
Meanwhile, the government seems to be trying to limit the probe to just the army’s chief’s allegations of bribe rather than go deep into the Tatra trucks deal signed in 1986 during the prime ministership of Rajiv Gandhi. Government sources say, the probe will cover the General’s allegations pertaining to clearing “substandard” trucks bought at “exorbitant price” from Sipox, making a differentiation from Omnipol, the original Czech company that had signed the deal.

http://www.dnaindia.com/print710.php?cid=1669177

[Murugan]

Six Def Companies black listed

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_si ... ny_1668899

The six blacklisted companies include the Singapore Technologies, Israeli Military Industry, Germany's Rheinmetall Air Defence, Corporation Defence of Russia, Delhi-based TS Kisan and Co Pvt Ltd and RK Machine Tools of Ludhiana.

[Murugan]

Media should also write "to shield (late) rajiv gandhi"

[krisna]

IIRC, there is also a story of Rs 600 cr being charged as business services or so in an Israeli order. it was charged during AKA's tenure.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 5#p1261565
Bofors scam Rs 64 cr; Israel Rs 600 cr

But perhaps the worst thing to happen during Antony’s watch was what could have been a huge kickback in a defence deal: the Rs 10,000 crore missile deal with Israel Aerospace Industries.

Antony’s ministry allowed the Israeli firm to bill a huge Rs 600 crore as “business charges”, and failed to kick up a storm over this clause in the agreement.

Where did this money go? What were the business charges incurred? For a much smaller payment of Rs 64 crore, Rajiv Gandhi got himself entangled in the Bofors controversy. He could never wash off the stigma. But a Rs 600 crore payment under Antony has completely gone under the radar. (Read the full story here).

[alexis]

Consider taking over disputed land, bldg: HC to army

Taking note of the apprehensions expressed by the Indian Army, the Bombay high court on Tuesday suggested that the defence force should consider acquiring the land at Cuffe Parade and take over the 31-storey Adarsh building. “The defence forces are empowered to acquire properties
adjoining their facilities, use the power and see if you can acquire the land and take over the building,” the division bench of justice PB Majmudar and justice RD Dhanuka told army counsel Rajni Iyer.

“You can definitely put the building to some use,” the judges added while hearing a petition filed by the general officer commanding (GOC) of Maharashtra, Gujarat and Goa military areas.

The GOC approached high court seeking immediate demolition of the building structure, as ordered by the ministry of environment and forests in November 2011, citing it a grave security threat for the Colaba military station.

The army also sought orders restraining the local planning authorities – the Mumbai Metropolitan Region Development Authority (MMRDA) and the Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC) — from granting any building or development permission in the area surrounding the military station without a no objection certificate (NOC) from the defence forces.

Ex-Army Major is the first disabled Indian at UNICEF

A good judgement. I was also thinking along similar lines; why destroy a building when it can be put to good use.

[alexis]

Yes. He is. So marginally better. However in all the incidents, he seems to be "late" in his actions. He should have pursued vigorously in both DOB issue and the bribe earlier.

I am sorry but the only person who is late is you -- by far -- in catching on -- the age row has been brewing for 6 years, the rest of anti-corruption clean up drive -- for 2 years

Any time he would have spoken up, some would say -- why now? If he had spoken earlier, they would have claimed blackmail or supporting xyz faction.

After all, when you decide to be like Diggy, you can throw any mud on your opponents, irrespective of any facts, couched as "I think Gen VKS did not personally take out his gun and shoot him this show Gen VKS is involved" or "Gen VKS took out his gun and shot him so it shows Gen VKS wants to hide something"

To those who want to protect the corrupt by tarring everyone with the same brush, they can make any and equal and opposite assertion just to save their skin.

Any person having a different POV from you is supporting corruption? For a person loathe to doing "equal equal", you are already comparing me with Diggy. After all, if i dont support your POV, i must a Cong stooge!

VKS and AKA may have valid reasons for not pursuing the matter of bribe. However, just to raise it in public after 2 years without taking any action in between is not correct.

[Pranav]

Chinese Grad Student Hacks Indian Military Research Firms

By THE NEW YORK TIMES
India’s military preparedness and the possibility of defense breaches has dominated the news after Army chief V.K.. Singh’s letter to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh surfaced recently calling India’s weapons “obsolete.”

Amid a raging debate about who should be blamed for leaking the letter, India’s cyber security is actually under attack, from a Chinese former graduate student who now works for Tencent, China’s leading internet portal company.

A report released Friday by Trend Micro, a computer security firm, “describes systematic attacks on at least 233 personal computers,” Nicole Perlroth writes in The New York Times. “The victims include Indian military research organizations and shipping companies; aerospace, energy and engineering companies in Japan; and at least 30 computer systems of Tibetan advocacy groups, according to both the report and interviews with experts connected to the research. The espionage has been going on for at least 10 months and is continuing, the report says.”

The e-mail “bait” the hackers used to get access to computers is chilling:

Each attack began, as is often the case, with an e-mail intended to lure victims into opening an attachment. Indian victims were sent an e-mail about India’s ballistic missile defense program. Tibetan advocates received e-mails about self-immolation or, in one case, a job opening at the Tibet Fund, a nonprofit based in New York City. After Japan’s earthquake and nuclear disaster, victims in Japan received an e-mail about radiation measurements.

Each e-mail contained an attachment that, when clicked, automatically created a backdoor from the victim’s computer to the attackers’ servers. To do this, the hackers exploited security holes in Microsoft Office and Adobe software. Almost immediately, they uploaded a directory of the victims’ machines to their servers. If the files looked enticing, hackers installed a remote-access tool, or rat, which gave them real-time control of their target’s machine. As long as a victim’s computer was connected to the Internet, attackers had the ability to record their keystrokes and passwords, grab screenshots and even crawl from that machine to other computers in the victim’s network.

Read the full article here.

http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/ ... mode=print

[chackojoseph]

Any person having a different POV from you is supporting corruption? For a person loathe to doing "equal equal", you are already comparing me with Diggy. After all, if i dont support your POV, i must a Cong stooge!

VKS and AKA may have valid reasons for not pursuing the matter of bribe. However, just to raise it in public after 2 years without taking any action in between is not correct.

Don't worry, he will come around. He is now all praises for Army General who stopped purchase. Earlier he had the view that it was the overlords at MoD who did the purchase and they dished to Army what ever they like.

The very VKS has let him down two times. Once VKS said that IA is not ordering more quantity Arjuns because ot technical problems. Now VKS says that he stopped the Tatra.

[Luit]

As the CBI start taking steps towards investigating the alleged bribe offered to the Army chief General VK Singh, an uncomfortable spotlight has been put on the original deal in 1986 by the Rajiv Gandhi-led Congress government to import Tatra trucks for the Indian Army.

Ravi Rishi, a NRI businessman, who owns the Vectra group had picked up a stake in the Czech manufacturers of Tatra trucks as the Cold War was drawing to a close. He later cemented his position in the firm with the Vectra group acquiring a majority stake in the firm.

The Tatra all-weather truck has been used in the Indian Army extensively. Reuters

The industrialist had said in an interview that it was his calculated risk to invest in Eastern European markets in factories like Tatra which had paid off.

Rishi, an IIT electrical engineering graduate from New Delhi, had reportedly steered the Rajiv Gandhi government in 1986 towards the Tatra’s all-weather trucks. Indian public sector firm, BEML, was to manufacture the trucks in India as part of the indigenisation process and till date around 7,000 trucks have been manufactured.

General VK Singh had reportedly raised doubts on both the quality and price being paid for the Tatra trucks and was inclined to doing away with a contract for the trucks signed by his predecessor. Indian defence ministry officials had said they had not received any complaints about the truck and

Congress leaders have expressed concerns over the extent of the CBI probe into the matter and whether it would inquire into how the Congress government in 1986, in which Rajiv Gandhi was defence minister, also approved of the Tatra trucks. The ruling party is reportedly keen to ensure that the scope of the probe does not extend beyond the bribe being offered to the Army chief.

The Vectra Group, apart from selling Tatra trucks to the Indian Army, also operates helicopter services and had reportedly attempted to push Eurocopter’s light utility helicopters for the defence force. A deal in 2007 had to be done away with after questions were raised about the procurement procedure and the Central Vigilance Commission supported the quashing of the agreement.

Rishi has been combative on the issue and alleged that it is General VK Singh had ulterior motives or personal interests at stake for attempting to stall a deal that was already signed.

“When he was in Kolkata I believe he was a great friend of the Ural trucks, in fact he tried Ural trucks with the Indian Army even without even having permission, and not following procedures. So he was doing this also, he was doing this at the behest of the Ural trucks,” he told Times Now.

[Roperia]

DNA report says none other than a serving Cabinet Minister, Ghulam Nabi Azad, wrote to MoD about the role of middleman in the dealings of BEML and Tatra. After the formal reply of looking into it, the RM chose not to pursue the matter and two years have conveniently passed.

If CBI has any credibility left it should start from 1986. The PM of that time was in news for some other 'famous' arms deals.

If we're still buying the 'clean' Antony charade, the only reason I can think of is this goes beyond RM.

All parliamentarians (including BJP) want that the rot in army ought not be discussed in public. Why kill the golden goose, hainji? Wouldn't that be counterproductive?

[Sanku]

Any person having a different POV from you is supporting corruption?

A person who has a PoV which says Gold == mud, is supporting corruption.

And that will be called. Ignorance is not a pov, neither is doing == between different objects.

[Sanku]

Don't worry, he will come around. He is now all praises for Army General who stopped purchase. Earlier he had the view that it was the overlords at MoD who did the purchase and they dished to Army what ever they like.

The very VKS has let him down two times. Once VKS said that IA is not ordering more quantity Arjuns because ot technical problems. Now VKS says that he stopped the Tatra.

BULL SHIT Chacko. Dont pass of your lack of language skills on me and dont put words into my mouth.

Just because people have been civil with your nonsense does not mean that you will go around making claims on others behalf.

If you dont understand the DPP, get some one to explain it to you instead of passing unintelligible simplistic sound bites.

[chackojoseph]

BULL SHIT Chacko. Dont pass of your lack of language skills on me and dont put words into my mouth.

Just because people have been civil with your nonsense does not mean that you will go around making claims on others behalf.

If you dont understand the DPP, get some one to explain it to you instead of passing unintelligible simplistic sound bites.

TSk TSk.. touche. Army does purchase its own things. eat that already!

[Sanku]

BULL SHIT Chacko. Dont pass of your lack of language skills on me and dont put words into my mouth.

Just because people have been civil with your nonsense does not mean that you will go around making claims on others behalf.

If you dont understand the DPP, get some one to explain it to you instead of passing unintelligible simplistic sound bites.

TSk TSk.. touche. Army does purchase its own things. eat that already!

No buddy boy, Army does not purchase its own things.

Even here, the chief was not signing a "purchase order" (I dont think you know what a purchase order is, look it up)

Here chief was only signing a yearly NoC (No Objection certificate) -- or "Army is satisified with the arrangement"

I suggest you try using your mind for a change and learn the difference between the two.

As I said on before, ignorance is not a PoV. (I am being charitable, because if you know the difference and are still saying what you are, that means you are lying)

[Sanku]

Some morons, like me, actually read documents like the following

Defence Procurement Procedure and Manual
http://mod.nic.in/dpm/

Read these document first chacko, then try and have a discussion

[chackojoseph]

^^^^^ Hahahahaha! We are not talking abt DPP and others. You have categorical statements in this forum that Army does not has a say in its purchases. The over lords at MoD do everything. You had even corrected one sentence in my procedure if the flow of purchase, i think everyone remembers that.

Now this is the second time, its being shown how powerful is army its its purchases and affairs.

I was gleefully reading how you were posting on this issue as you had not realized that you have been firing over your own foot all along.

[Pranav]

Documents with CNN-IBN show Tatra Sipox UK was a London based trading company, not the original manufacturer, breaking the first rule of procurement, which says you must buy from the manufacturer.
Tatra Sipox balance sheets of then show it had a working capital of just 30 thousand pounds.
Its shareholder included an NRI Ravi Rishi and Joseph Majesky. The latter, according to Slovakian papers, faced jail term for siphoning funds.
Moreover, when BEML signed the MoU with Sipox the firm was registered for providing spiritual, religious, and social services.
The procurement from Sipox faced its first hurdle in 2003 when the Equipment Branch raised objects.
In the letters, copies of which are with CNN-IBN, the officer concerned raised some questions.
* Who the original manufacturer of the truck was?
* What was the source of procurement?
* What was the price at which it was being procured?
* And what the role of Tatra Sipox UK was?
Within two months, as the documents show, the letter was treated as cancelled.

http://expressbuzz.com/topnews/vk-singh ... 76763.html

[nelson]

^^@chackojoseph
It should read how 'powerless the Army is' in its procurements, purchases and affairs, right?

[chackojoseph]

^^@chackojoseph
It should read how 'powerless the Army is' in its procurements, purchases and affairs, right?

Why so?

[Luit]

http://www.firstpost.com/india/army-chi ... 57626.html

The Army chief , Gen VK Singh’s, sensational allegation that he was offered a Rs 14 crore bribe by a retired Army officer-turned-lobbyist (subsequently identified as Lt Gen Tejinder Singh) to approve the purchase of Army trucks has refocussed attention on the shadowy world of defence procurements.

It is an intricate web that involves, by some accounts, some Indian politicians, although there is as yet no confirmation of the role that they played.

Gen VK Singh alleged that Tatra trucks, which have been on Army ‘duty’ for close to two decades – it saw action during the Kargil war – were “substandard” and overpriced. The Tatra deal has been under a cloud for a long while now, but until Gen VK Singh blew the whistle, no serious effort had been made to get to the bottom of it.

The Army chief's allegations have opened a can of worms. AFP

The first agreement for procuring Tatra trucks was signed in 1986 with Omnipol Foreign Trade Corporation of the Czechoslovakia. But about the time that the Soviet empire was collapsing in the early 1990s, and the satellite states (including Czechoslovakia) were spinning out of orbit, Ravi Rishi, an astute NRI businessman, moved in to pick up Tatra on the cheap, through his London-based consortium Vectra.

Tatra’s fortunes in India soared since then; in 1992, the Indian public sector undertaking BEML starts buying the trucks from Tatra Sipox UK.

Tatra Sipox UK was, according to documents with CNN-IBN, a London-based trading company and not the original manufacturer. Procuring from Tatra Spiox broke one of the cardinal rules of defence procurement – that all procurement should be sourced directly from the manufacturer, not a third party.

Curiously, Tatra Sipox’s balance sheets of those years show it had a working capital of just 30,000 pounds. And the firm was registered as providing “spiritual, religious and social services.”

Listed among the shareholders of Tata Sipox UK was Joseph Majeski, a Slovakian national who at one time faced a jail term for misappropriation of funds.

In 2003, more than a decade after the first deal, BEML and Tatra Sipox (UK) sought to increase the scope of the relationship. But at that point, they faced the first hurdle, when the Equipment Branch of the Army raised objections to the deal.

CNN-IBN has in its possession a copy of a letter in which probing questions were asked of the deal, in particular: Who was the original manufacturer of the truck? What was the source of procurement? What was the price at which it was being procured? And what was the role of Tatra Sipox UK?
But within two months, the letter was treated as cancelled, for reasons that are not clear.

Subsequently, the holding pattern of the companies changed, after which BEML signed a joint venture with Vectra, of which Ravi Rishi was the major shareholder.

Under the terms of the 2003 agreement, the Chief of Army Staff has to sign on the procurement deal for the trucks every year. The last time the deal was signed was in February 2010, by Genenral (Retired) Deepak Kapoor.

But within weeks of taking over as Army chief, Gen VK Singh applied the brakes on a pre-approved order for the supply of 788 Tatra trucks on the grounds that they had not performed optimally and were horribly overpriced. He was inclined to consider a rival manufacturer, the Kolkata-based Ural India Ltd, which offered to sell the all-terrain vehicles for Rs 40 lakh each (against the Rs 1 crore price tag that the Tatra trucks came with). Ural India is a joint venture between URALAZ, the Soviet heavy-duty automobile company established at the height of the Second World War, and Motijug Agencies owned by JK Saraf.

It may have been the prospect of being shut out of the lucrative Indian market that prompted the desperate offer of a bribe to Gen VK Singh.

Once earlier, the Vectra Group, which pimped for the Eurocopter in India, had had the mortifying experience of being similarly shut out. In 2007, Defence Minister 2007 pointedly cancelled a contract for the purchase of 197 aircraft for the Army after revelations that a senior Army officer had links to a Vectra group company.

Vectra Group is believed to be keen to sell all-terrain vehicles and helicopters to the Home Ministry, which is low on such equipment for the operations against Maoists in central India.

Writing in The Sunday Guardian, Madhav Nalapat claims, citing unidentified sources, that Lt Gen Tejinder Singh, who stands accused of fronting for Tatra and offering Gen VK Singh a bribe, is connected to at least one upcoming politician. Tejinder Singh, he writes, “operates in tandem” with a retired major and his son, “both of whom are well-known” to Home Minister P Chidambaram’s son Karthi Chidambaram.

Subramanian Swamy too has pointed to connections between the “triumvirate” of Tejinder Singh, the retired Major, and Karthi Chidambaram.

None of this has been established beyond reasonable doubt, but it’s fair to say that Gen VK Singh’s sensational claim has literally thrown open a can of worms. The CBI’s ability to get to the bottom of it all will be on stern test.

[Sanku]

^^^^^ Hahahahaha! We are not talking abt DPP and others. You have categorical statements in this forum that Army does not has a say in its purchases. The over lords at MoD do everything. You had even corrected one sentence in my procedure if the flow of purchase, i think everyone remembers that.

Now this is the second time, its being shown how powerful is army its its purchases and affairs.

I was gleefully reading how you were posting on this issue as you had not realized that you have been firing over your own foot all along.

Chacko either you are lying or incapable of understanding basic english.

Maybe both.

[nelson]

^^@chackojoseph
It should read how 'powerless the Army is' in its procurements, purchases and affairs, right?

Why so?

If you are a good journalist, find out the financial limit for Service Chiefs, under various Major and Minor heads of expenditure incurred as per Defence Services Estimates. The same can be obtained from CGDA or NIDFM. It was also available on their websites sometime ago.

Once you get Competent Financial Authorities and their financial limits, then come on this forum to tell how meagre or vast the upper limits for service chiefs are. Also please get the dates from when these limits were revised or made applicable from.

If you can't/don't find, accept what other posters say. That the financial powers of Service Chiefs are meagre and pale to insignificance when compared to that of the Govt.

[chackojoseph]

^^^^^ Hahahahaha! We are not talking abt DPP and others. You have categorical statements in this forum that Army does not has a say in its purchases. The over lords at MoD do everything. You had even corrected one sentence in my procedure if the flow of purchase, i think everyone remembers that.

Now this is the second time, its being shown how powerful is army its its purchases and affairs.

I was gleefully reading how you were posting on this issue as you had not realized that you have been firing over your own foot all along.

Chacko either you are lying or incapable of understanding basic english.

Maybe both.

You are a bad looser. Anyway since this has nothing to do with the discussion, its OT.

Nelson,

If you are a good journalist, find out the financial limit for Service Chiefs, under various Major and Minor heads of expenditure incurred as per Defence Services Estimates. The same can be obtained from CGDA or NIDFM. It was also available on their websites sometime ago.

Once you get Competent Financial Authorities and their financial limits, then come on this forum to tell how meagre or vast the upper limits for service chiefs are. Also please get the dates from when these limits where revised or made applicable from.

If you can't/don't find, accept what other posters say. That the financial powers of Service Chiefs are meagre compared to that of the Govt.

I have never claimed to be a good journalist. I have said so even before.

You find out what was discussed, since we had not discussed financial limits. We had argued the amount of 'say' what Army has in its purchase and what was the functions of MoD.

[Sanku]

You are a bad looser. Anyway since this has nothing to do with the discussion, its OT.

Shoot and scoot eh. Let me repeat, you have at least twice

1) Misrepresented the defence purchasing procedure
2) Misrepresented my views.

Not acceptable.

[nelson]

Would the 'amount of say' in a purchase depend on the financial limits involved. You need not be a good journalist, but consider a situation in your home / office would amount of say a person has, not depend on the cost of purchase.

[Sanku]

You find out what was discussed, since we had not discussed financial limits. We had argued the amount of 'say' what Army has in its purchase and what was the functions of MoD.

Oh so the matter now becomes some vague "say" in purchasing? In stead of discussing clearly laid out policies, financial limits, roles and responsibilities you want to turn the discussion into a discussion of "say so"

No one other than you is interested in discussing a vague concept of "say" because simply, there is no such discussion. People are interested in meaningful data points that exist in the world -- not one individuals personal predilections of what the word "say" is how it plays in the matter.

[Sanku]

Would the 'amount of say' in a purchase depend on the financial limits involved. You need not be a good journalist, but consider a situation in your home / office would amount of say a person has not depend on the cost of purchase.

Chacko is merely attempting to obfuscate since he can not make his points on the real data points as they exist. Thus bring in vague statements like "Army has lot of say"

[chackojoseph]

Would the 'amount of say' in a purchase depend on the financial limits involved. You need not be a good journalist, but consider a situation in your home / office would amount of say a person has not depend on the cost of purchase.

Nelson,

Please.... You are really off tangent. How can I react to something which I did not say. Sanku claimed that Army has whatsoever no say in its purchases. it was a totally different argument. He shot his own foot now.

Added later......... here is the link

You can see what was discussed.

[Sanku]

Sanku claimed that Army has whatsoever no say in its purchases. it was a totally different argument.

I made no such claim. And despite saying that many times you continue to repeat a lie.

I challenge you to quote my post with that statement.


The above is what Chacko ascribed to me

This is what I said in the discussion

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1251799

So even in the ideal world Army has a far smaller role in the procurement chain compared to civvies.

So either Chacko

1) Has such poor language skills that he can not distinguish between "a far smaller role in the procurement chain " AND "Army has whatsoever no say in its purchases"

OR

2) Is lying

OR

3) Both 1 & 2.

Chacko can chose the options.

[Roperia]

BJP seeks Defence Minister A K Antony's resignation; alleges patronisation of corruption after charges levelled by Army Chief. PTI

Finally, some saner voices out of the political leadership of this country. After the damning report in the DNA the RM, to say the least, seems to have turned a blind eye to the unsavory things happening at MoD.

[Sanku]

BJP seeks Defence Minister A K Antony's resignation; alleges patronisation of corruption after charges levelled by Army Chief. PTI

Finally, some saner voices out of the political leadership of this country. After the damning report in the DNA the RM, to say the least, seems to have turned a blind eye to the unsavory things happening at MoD.

Why should AKA resign, he has been shown to be in the same mold as Raja/Chidu/Kalmadi etc.

He will brazen it out like Man mohan and 123 bribe saga --> std response, I have the votes, what can you do?

[chaanakya]

It is interesting that the congees are not repeating VKS' use of the term "high treason". Apparently there are laws on the books that make it an offense punishable by death.

It is, indeed.

[alexis]

Any person having a different POV from you is supporting corruption?

A person who has a PoV which says Gold == mud, is supporting corruption.

And that will be called. Ignorance is not a pov, neither is doing == between different objects.

Sir, that is your POV. You are welcome to have it. But others, including me have a different POV.

You are making an allegation that I support corruption. Since I can cast the same allegation against you, i now allege you are corrupt.

[Sanku]

Sir, that is your POV. You are welcome to have it. But others, including me have a different POV.

You are making an allegation that I support corruption. Since I can cast the same allegation against you, i now allege you are corrupt.

I did not say you are corrupt, I said doing a "Gen VKS == AKA" is supporting corruption BECAUSE

1) Gen VKS did a lot in curbing corruption visibly.
2) AKA has definetly gone slow on cases of corruption and has also not supported Gen VKS on issues like attack on Gen VKS during DoB.
3) AKA has also had Deepak Kapoor and JJ Singh's boss and did nothing to curb the misdeeds under them.
4) AKA has a far large role and responsibility as head of the entire MoD, and looking after the 3 services and the coast guard etc.

So if in light of above data point some one says Gen VKS is similar to AKA, and says it is his view point. Following options exist

1) The person is not able to see the real world picture despite being pointed out.
2) The person is supporting corruption.

You have a choice, look at the data and change your mind, that option exists. No need to take a fixed position irrespective of facts on the grounds.

[Jaybhatt]

Sanku : You wrote :

"........either Chacko

1) Has such poor language skills that he can not distinguish between "a far smaller role in the procurement chain " AND "Army has whatsoever no say in its purchases"

OR

2) Is lying

OR

3) Both 1 & 2.

Chacko can choose the options."

I don't want to wade into your dialogue, but I have been thinking of writing on chakojospeh's conduct for some time.

He is amazingly devious and obstreperous. Keeps changing his stand and his statements, whenever he finds it convenient.
And he is obstinate to the hilt, as only a wrong person can be, when his mistakes are pointed out. His spelling / keyboard skills are hilarious. His perseverance in his "affected / effected" bloomer was epic - it would have done credit to a believer in the flat-earth theory.

More seriously, his twisted comments on Gen. VKS are difficult to take. No objectivity and fairness here at all. It is not kosher when he takes repeated pot-shots at a totally honourable man and a dedicated soldier. Period.

[Pranav]

Why should AKA resign, he has been shown to be in the same mold as Raja/Chidu/Kalmadi etc.

No point in AKA resigning if the 2G's are going to come out unscathed.

AKA is spineless, but more decent than anybody who would replace him.

[chackojoseph]

I don't want to wade into your dialogue, but I have been thinking of writing on chakojospeh's conduct for some time.

He is amazingly devious and obstreperous. Keeps changing his stand and his statements, whenever he finds it convenient.
And he is obstinate to the hilt, as only a wrong person can be, when his mistakes are pointed out. His spelling / keyboard skills are hilarious. His perseverance in his "affected / effected" bloomer was epic - it would have done credit to a believer in the flat-earth theory.

More seriously, his twisted comments on Gen. VKS are difficult to take. No objectivity and fairness here at all. It is not kosher when he takes repeated pot-shots at a totally honourable man and a dedicated soldier. Period.

You already did.

Spell I have agreed. I have corrected. The affected/effected also was changed. Whats so obstinate about it? Shows that you have nothing on me. Just picking nit picks.

When did I twist gen VKS comments?

Added later.....

Jaybhatt , this is not the first time you attacked me needlessly.
Here is how he attacks me the first time (Link) . He laughs on my key board skills. here are his

Chackojoseph, as is his wont from time to time, has gone off the deep end and is foofling without a paddle.

Futile to discuss with a person like him when all his rationality has been suspended. His defence of Anthony ******* is illogical and unethical. Goes against all accepted legal principles.

When a complainant has brought an offence to the attention of the competent authority (as the COAS Gen. V K Singh did with the Raksha Mantri), the primary onus is on the competent authority to act. The complainant has fully discharged his legal obligation.

Why is Chackojoseph finding this so difficult to understand and accept ? The stand that he is taking is amazingly obtuse.

[Sanku]

Chacko I do not want to "fight" you, but please do not speak on my behalf, I then have no option but to show otherwise and that is painful (there are a few thickskins who can lie blatantly but since you are not one of them -- no need to get there)

Peace.

[chackojoseph]

Chacko I do not want to "fight" you, but please do not speak on my behalf, I then have no option but to show otherwise and that is painful (there are a few thickskins who can lie blatantly but since you are not one of them -- no need to get there)

Peace.

Sanku,

I don't accept your charges against me. But I gracefully accept the "Peace" part. Peace be with you. I can never resist that.

[Pranav]

Need to find the shareholding pattern for the Vectra Group Limited.