West Asia News and Discussions

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Philip
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

Russia softening on Iran?

http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/arti ... ons-regime

The Realist Prism: Russia Sends Trial Balloons on Iran Sanctions Regime
By Nikolas Gvosdev, on 16 Aug 2013, Column
Russia has been sending some confusing signals on Iran in recent weeks. Rumors began to circulate that Russian President Vladimir Putin would be heading to Tehran to meet with newly inaugurated President Hasan Rouhani—with some even predicting that Putin would "drop in" on Iran this week after completing his visit to Azerbaijan to confer with Azeri President Ilham Aliyev. Stories were also released that Russia was reconsidering its unilaterally imposed boycott on selling advanced S-300 air defense systems to Tehran, or at least replacing them with another variant, the Antei-2500 system, as a way to get Iran to drop its legal action at the International Court of Arbitration in Geneva that charges Moscow with breach of contract over the S-300s.

So, was there a method to the madness of these leaks? They appeared to be test balloons—reminders that the unprecedented international sanctions that have exacted a toll on the Iranian economy over the past few years are fragile and that Russia could be prepared to reverse course on Iran. At a time when U.S. policymakers are worried that Iran is close to mastering the technologies needed to fabricate an atomic weapon, it would be a real setback for the Obama administration for Moscow to defect from the U.S.-led sanctions process. And supplying Tehran with sophisticated weapons systems would make a U.S. or Israeli air strike on Iran's nuclear facilities much more difficult to carry out. Perhaps the intent was to show a U.S. foreign policy establishment increasingly skeptical of the value of U.S.-Russia relations—and increasingly critical of Putin’s domestic policies—what some of the costs of a rupture might be.

Of course, Putin made no such surprise visit to Tehran or even to any of Iran's Caspian port cities, and Rosoboronexport—the Russian firm that handles arms exports—is as of this writing denying that there are any plans to reactivate the S-300 contract. However, Putin is set to meet Rouhani next month on the sidelines of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) summit in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan. An interesting question to pose is whether Rouhani would journey to Central Asia in an effort to break Iran out of its current isolation—and what he might do in the meantime to change the current dynamic.

Upon taking office in early August, Rouhani announced his intent to engage in "serious and substantive" talks with the international community about Iran's nuclear program. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov declared, "We absolutely agree with what he said" in terms of the importance of restarting talks, and Russia has since called for the P5+1 talks to resume in mid-September.

What would happen if the Islamic Republic, over the next several weeks, were to qualify those statements with a series of concrete actions, such as temporarily halting enrichment activities and offering an unprecedented degree of transparency and access to Iran's nuclear facilities to international observers? Doing so might bolster Rouhani's claims that Iran is merely seeking to exercise its rights under the Non-Proliferation Treaty to a "peaceful" atomic program as well as his calls for a temporary relaxation of international sanctions. If sanctions relief were granted, it would strengthen his position at home by validating his more conciliatory approach vis-a-vis the hard-line skeptics within the leadership who see no value to diplomacy.

Would Russia, in turn, be prepared to champion Rouhani's diplomatic engagement? It would certainly change the narrative for the forthcoming G-20 summit in St. Petersburg, which right now is focused on Putin's canceled bilateral meeting with President Barack Obama, and divert attention from Russia's domestic policies, particularly its recent legislation banning pro-gay "propaganda." Instead, Putin could present this opening to his fellow world leaders as an opportunity for a decisive diplomatic breakthrough.

After leaving St. Petersburg, Putin, along with Chinese President Xi Jingping, will travel to the SCO summit, giving them a chance to meet with Rouhani. If they were so inclined, the SCO could provide a stage for both Russia and China to endorse the Iranian call for talks as well as to support the idea of sanctions relief for Tehran. Beijing and Moscow might find it quite attractive to put the United States on the defensive, particularly in the U.N. Security Council, since the unspoken but nevertheless ever-present reality is that the true U.S. preference is for Iran's complete denuclearization, not simply its regulation within certain bounds. Up to this point, Iran's clumsy diplomacy has allowed the U.S. to build an international coalition to pressure Tehran over its unwillingness to concede to meaningful inspections and limits. But Rouhani, along with his new foreign minister, former Iranian U.N. Ambassador Mohammed Javad Zarif, might prove to be more adept than their predecessors.

How likely is this scenario? Iran has shown an impressive ability to shoot itself in the foot in the past when it has come to addressing its nuclear program, with its unwillingness to make serious concessions being used as proof of its insincerity. Moreover, Supreme Leader Ali Khamanei’s receptiveness to such an approach is a critical unknown at this point.

Yet it is something the Obama administration should be prepared for. At a time when Rouhani might be able to win cautious support, not only from Russia and China, but also from Iran's European and Asian trading partners who have cut back their business with Tehran at Washington's behest, Obama faces a U.S. Congress that is all but ready to dispense with diplomacy. At the end of July, the House of Representatives overwhelmingly passed a bill co-sponsored by Reps. Ed Royce and Eliot Engel that seeks to further cut Iran's oil exports by putting even more pressure on Iran's customers to stop purchasing from Iran, as well as putting more pressure on entities that help finance Iran's foreign trade. The Senate will consider similar legislation after its summer recess concludes in September. If Iran signals its willingness to seriously talk, it may come at a time when the U.S. is deaf to such appeals.

This would create quite an opening for Russia to claim the moral high ground on the Iranian nuclear issue, while simultaneously embarrassing the White House for its lack of control over the U.S. policy process. Combined with Washington’s tepid response to the unfolding crisis in Egypt, it could also have implications for the two sides’ divergence over how to address the war in Syria. If Moscow wants to get the Obama administration to reconsider the value of the bilateral relationship, the Iran card would certainly be a useful one to play.

Nikolas K. Gvosdev is the former editor of the National Interest and a frequent foreign policy commentator in both the print and broadcast media. He is currently on the faculty of the U.S. Naval War College. The views expressed are his own and do not reflect those of the Navy or the U.S. government. His weekly WPR column, The Realist Prism, appears every Friday.

Photo: Russian President Vladimir Putin (photo by the website of the president of the Russian Fe
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vinod »

Looks like a very well-timed act. May be the west's next phase of action has begun!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23777201
Syria conflict: 'Chemical attacks' near Damascus

Chemical weapons attacks have killed dozens on the outskirts of Damascus, Syrian opposition activists claim.

Rockets with toxic agents were launched at the suburbs of the Ghouta region early on Wednesday as part of a major bombardment on rebel forces, they say.

A team of UN inspectors arrived in Syria on Sunday to probe earlier allegations of chemical weapons use.
Syria's state-run news agency said that the reports were "baseless" and an attempt to distract the inspectors.

UK Foreign Secretary William Hague expressed "deep concern" and called for the Syrian government "to allow immediate access to the area" for the investigators.
If confirmed, the attacks would mark a "shocking escalation in the use of chemical weapons in Syria", Mr Hague said.

The Arab League echoed the call for the inspectors to go to the site, AFP reports.

The attack took place as part of heavy government bombardment of the region surrounding Damascus, where government forces have been trying to drive out rebel forces.

Casualties were reported in the areas of Irbin, Duma and Muadhamiya among others, activists said.

Footage uploaded to YouTube from the scene by activists shows many people being treated in makeshift hospitals.

The videos show victims, including many children, having convulsions. Others are apparently immobile and have difficulty breathing.
The BBC has not been able to authenticate the footage fully, but based on additional checks made, it is believed to be genuine.

The number of casualties is much higher than in previous allegations of chemical weapons attacks.

It is not clear whether the UN inspectors will look into the latest allegations. They are due to investigate three other locations, including the northern town of Khan al-Assal, where some 26 people were killed in March.

Syrian state news agency Sana said the reports of the attack were "baseless", quoting a "media source".

The reports were "an attempt to divert the UN chemical weapons investigation commission away from carrying out its duties", Sana said.

'Horrific' footage

The latest incident throws up more questions than answers, the BBC's Middle East Editor Jeremy Bowen reports.

Many will ask why the government would want to use such weapons at a time when inspectors are in the country and the military has been doing well militarily in the area around Damascus, he says.
Some will suspect that the footage has been fabricated, but the videos that have been emerged would be difficult to fake, he adds.

The attack is the most serious alleged use of chemical weapons in Syria so far
Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, a former commanding officer at the UK's Joint Chemical Biological Radiological Nuclear Regiment, told the BBC's Today programme that the footage was "horrific" and agreed that it would be "very difficult to stage-manage".

If the UN inspectors were able to get to the scene, they should have the equipment to identify the chemical that has been used, if any, Mr de Bretton-Gordon said.

Residue from any agent used should be detectable at the scene for a period of two to three days or possibly a week, he said.

Both the rebels and government forces have accused each other of using chemical weapons during the conflict.

It is not possible to independently verify the claims.

Syria is widely believed to possess large undeclared stockpiles of mustard gas and sarin nerve agent.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Nouri Al Maliki of Iraq to visit India on 22nd to 25th Aug..
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by dnivas »

Syria:

Alleged chemical attack in damascus. 1300 dead

I wonder who did it. I am guessing rebels trying to put the blame on assad. Assad wont be stupid to do this while the UN team is in the country

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/2 ... AJ20130821
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

UNSC holding emergency meeting over the Syria gas attack.

------
Yaakov Cohen deputy director of the mossad appointed as NSA of Israel. He led ops in 4 continents. Highly regarded in the service
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Lilo »

Wtf 1300 !!

:shock: :shock: :eek:

Who ever thunk up this campaign in Syria deserves to get impaled on a stake bottomup in front of spitting public.

But alas there is too much injustice and the forces of good are too weakened to see to it that such a punishment will befall those who imposed the Syrian civil war on its people.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

most like the west paid off a govt unit to launch chemical rockets and then immediately defect/melt away.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

1300 could be an exaggeration , most reports says dead in 100.

Most likely to sabotage the end of August Geneva-2 meeting.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Even if it's true that they used it - the west is not 100% ready yet to seize the CW.

They wil be pouring over intel now - satellite photos, intrcepts, HUMINT, samples will be smirked out probably. Key will be if UN can send their investigators in. Russia's position will be key. The UN investigators are literally down the road from the area.

UN team in Syria statement says they are in discussion with Syrian govt.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Hundreds dead after Syrian government ‘poisonous gas’ attack, opposition groups claim ( WARNING GRAPHICS )

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/08/21 ... roups-say/
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/a ... eds-killed

Syria conflict: chemical weapons blamed as hundreds reported killed
Death toll claimed to be as high as 1,400 as Syrian government admits launching offensive but denies using chemical weapons

It is a fight to the finish,"annhilation" as a rebel said.Only to be expected.With the west and sheikdoms supporting the rebels militarily covertly,the Syrian govt. will use anything to defeat them.Parallel,the Lankan Eelam War .The rebels have been anything but humanitarian either,from all reports,so they can't whine if they're taken out with extreme prejudice.As usual though,the collateral damage is enormous,civilians paying the price for a proxy war.Read how the US/CIA instigated disturbances in Iran decades ago,and overthrew Mossadegh.It is now reluctantly admitting the fact,.Did the Syrian "uprising" have a similar godfather too?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vishvak »

Thousands of Kurds have become refugees after al-whatever mobs, trained and bankrolled by high and mighty, attacked Kurds.

There are no pictures of attacks by al-mobs, no investigations on trainers and bankers of al-mobs. The only apt propaganda is poor refugees running away from attacks by barbaric al-mobs - and forced to live under crumbs arranged by guess who all - seem to be the fate good enough for Kurds.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

^^ not all Kurds.
------

Russia blocks the investigation into the chemical weapons attacks. France calls for use of force if CW is confirmed to be used
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vishvak »

Not all Kurds but Kurds are not able to support a part of Kurds - now separated- when attacked by al-mobs bankrolled and trained by high and mighty.

No pictures of al-mobs attacking, no investigations into bankers and trainers of al-mobs.

Refugees and their next generation will give enough work for supporting and arranging crumbs for refugees - as well as legitimate independent opinion as part of Kurds.

Why did al-mobs attacked Kurds anyway?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Why don't you look into the facts before you pass your opinion on these matters?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

shyamd wrote:^^ not all Kurds.
------

Russia blocks the investigation into the chemical weapons attacks.
Did you failed to mention China too ;)
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

This chemical attack as most suggest could be Chlorine as the symptoms from known chemical agent like Sarin or Never Gas like Vomiting etc is not seen in this event.

Western Countries are quick to blame Assad based on FSA claims and France even hinted at taking unilateral action based on this event but what if its proved that this or past incident has been done by FSA and not SAA .....will they bomb FSA then ?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Syrian gov't ready for cooperation with UN experts in chemical attack probe - Moscow
"The government of Syria has reiterated its readiness to cooperate with the UN experts as broadly as possible and provide them with complete logistical support, including access to the previously collected documents that address the incident in the Khan al-Asal district," he said at a press briefing in Moscow on Thursday.

The Russian Foreign Ministry is hoping that the results of the work of UN experts in Syria will eliminate speculation on the use of chemical weapons there.

"We are hoping that the results of the experts' work will help clarify this issue and will eliminate speculation on the use of Syrian chemical weapons, which will simultaneously create a positive background for progress towards the political settlement of the crisis in Syria," Russian Foreign Ministry official Alexander Lukashevich told a briefing on Thursday.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Yup forgot PRC too...

-----
Its funny how Rus/PRC block attempts of an investigation and then "hope that the results of the work of UN experts in Syria will eliminate speculation on the use of chemical weapons there"

This would have been a great opportunity for Rus/PRC/Syria to prove claims that FSA used chemicals.... what are they afraid of?

The only get out for Syria is that there is an ongoing military operation in that area. One of the conditions that UN agreed to was that UN inspectors won't be able to visit areas where there is military operation - but Syrians don't appear to have used that card.

---------
Austin ji - west will start droning at some point - don't worry.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vinod »

shyamd wrote: This would have been a great opportunity for Rus/PRC/Syria to prove claims that FSA used chemicals.... what are they afraid of?
How exactly do you prove that beyond any doubts? Anyway, UN inspectors can draw any conclusion which may not be good for Syria - which may or may not be the truth!

The point is that this looks like a well-timed inside job. By all reports, Syrians govt forces had military operations going on around there and have bombed them and one of them apparantly was chemical.
Whether it was done with the permission or without is the next question. I doubt it is with permission, because syrians know too well they would be digging themselves into a big hole which will eventually could become their grave. If not, then the personnel guarding the chemicals have been compromised. Questions will be asked on the security of the chemicals.

If it is indeed with permission, then this will go down as one of the most idiotic thing that they would have done and deserve all the flak that comes along with it.

Now, if the real culprits are not caught, then going forward Syrians can always do chemical and blame them. So, interesting next few days!
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

vinod wrote: How exactly do you prove that beyond any doubts? Anyway, UN inspectors can draw any conclusion which may not be good for Syria - which may or may not be the truth!
They have an agreed SOP's of handling samples and it will be combined with other information (satellite images, intercepts and any other evidence they can find), presented to the UNSC who will all review the evidence (incl. Rus and PRC).
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vinod »

They can prove the source, what, when and how it was used. But I'm not fully convinced, that find the hand the pulled the trigger i.e. the person who ordered this beyond any doubt. After the Iraq's WMD thing, I'm sceptical of any inspectors! I will wait until I'm proved wrong.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

shyamd , Syrian government has agreed to investigation from UN and the truth with come out if these inspectors do their work honestly ( and not similar to what they did prior to GW2 )

I think there is little incentive for Syrian Government to use CW against its own people/rebels when they are doing fine in this battle and more so when UN inspectors are here ...... and there is every incentive for FSA to use CW against these people and blame the government ......look at the reaction of Saudi .....it was like Eureka !

There are a low and stalemate in Syrian conflict and this CW attack has given it a new life to it and we all know who this will be in favour off.
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Post by member_27444 »

Coffee Anan era to todays Moons are totally under the thumb of Unkil.

United Nations
As a puppet of
Developed Nations
Is no good organization
To server the poor Nations
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Austin wrote:shyamd , Syrian government has agreed to investigation from UN and the truth with come out if these inspectors do their work honestly ( and not similar to what they did prior to GW2 )

I think there is little incentive for Syrian Government to use CW against its own people/rebels when they are doing fine in this battle and more so when UN inspectors are here ...... and there is every incentive for FSA to use CW against these people and blame the government ......look at the reaction of Saudi .....it was like Eureka !

There are a low and stalemate in Syrian conflict and this CW attack has given it a new life to it and we all know who this will be in favour off.
Both sides are playing their own games. But if it was a rebel release Syrian govt would have seized on it for propaganda and would be shouting from the roofs - as they've done with every other incident. They stayed mum and issued a denial

Rus/PRC providing cover. Syria govt will act like goodies and say yes we are cooperating (they have the power to drive 15 mins from current location and prove it wasn't them). Pak plays the same game , any evidence that is provided is questionable or insufficient ... Not to say that the FSA side is any better.

Lets see if Syrian govt provides access to the site.

How exactly is the war going well for Asad? He doesn't control a third of his country, the other third is contested. Economically his lifeline is Iran and Russia. The situation is still same as last year - Asad outguns the rebels, for every victory in one place Asad has to lose resources from another location which rebels take over and then Asad forces move to the next place and rebels attack the previous place. On and on we go until backers from one side give up
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Post by Austin »

Its good for Assad because there is stale mate , opposition is fragmented , the great help from US and Obama redline is no were near and Al Quida wary west have realised the futility of overthrowing Assad .......not to mention Iran is always ready to chip in should the need arise as done in past.

Far better then a year back when Assad was given deadline and his fall was imminent to just few months away :wink:

Ofcourse the big move from Saudi coming in a month is yet to be seen , assuming bribing Putin and shouting Eureka over the new Chemical Attack was not the one.

Atleast now west realises that toppling Assad wont solve the problem as US Mililitary Chief says in his letter .....a far change from what we saw a year back.
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Post by Austin »

Good to see Vatican take a stand even though it may lack any real punch but would resonate on western capitals

Vatican urges caution over Syria chemical arms claims
The Vatican on Thursday called for caution over opposition allegations that the Syrian regime used chemical weapons in an attack in the suburbs of Damascus - a charge denied by the authorities.

"There should not be a judgment until there is sufficient proof," Silvano Tomasi, the Vatican's permanent observer at the United Nations in Geneva, said in an interview with Vatican radio.

"What immediate interest would the government in Damascus have in causing such a tragedy?" he asked, adding that the real question was: "Who does this inhuman crime really benefit?"

Tomasi also restated the Vatican's opposition to armed intervention in Syria, calling for negotiations "without preconditions" and a "transition government".

"Experience has shown with Iraq and Afghanistan that armed intervention does not bring any constructive results," he said, calling for an end to arms supplies to both the government and the opposition.

The Vatican diplomat also criticised the "incomplete analysis" of the situation in Syria and the Middle East as a whole being made by the media.

"We have seen how unconditional support for the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt has led to more violence," he said.

He said there was also a clear division between "those who want a Sunni government in Syria and those who want to retain a participation by all minorities". 8)
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Austin wrote:Its good for Assad because there is stale mate , opposition is fragmented , the great help from US and Obama redline is no were near and Al Quida wary west have realised the futility of overthrowing Assad .......not to mention Iran is always ready to chip in should the need arise as done in past.
All sounds good but ask yourself one thing - does he have the economic wherewithal to support his fight if Russia and Iran stop bankrolling him? Whats the value of the Syrian pound a year ago and today?

West is weary for its own interests - you let the rebels win and there will be a massacre of alawi's, let Asad win and there will be massacre of sunni's. Intervene and they become responsible for everything that happens - which he doesnt want to do. The only intervention thats gonna take place is seizing the CW - which is the only serious discussion that s going on between NATO countries.

They are training rebels and sending them into Syria - the minimum they are doing.

The risks are huge too - sending troops in is tantamount to putting them at risk to chemical weapons - the US did an exercise in March and found not only were they not well trained enough to deal with CW but they lacked some basic equipment. So they have been drilling and preparing and plugging gaps. So has other nations - like France and UK.

Cheapest option is to crater Asad's runways using Cruise missiles and stop Rus/Iran using the air route for supplies and stop air support. But they won't do it as it doesnt stop the bloodshed - they dont want an outright rebel victory.
Far better then a year back when Assad was given deadline and his fall was imminent to just few months away :wink:
He'd be finished ages ago if it wasn't for Asad's financiers and the US leaning on everyone to stop supplying weapons to the rebels - to get them to the table. Asad is on a life support machine, if someone pulls the plug he's dead.
Atleast now west realises that toppling Assad wont solve the problem as US Mililitary Chief says in his letter .....a far change from what we saw a year back.
US military chief and Pentagon are fundamentally against any form of intervention - put simply he doesn't want to get involved. West realised a long time back military victory for rebels is not going to "stop the bloodshed" as Obama puts it. And they can't do anything diplomatically either because of Russia - as you saw today, the Russians won't even allow the UN to investigate the claims.
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Post by member_27444 »

something big will happen this year around, just wait and see......
Snowden has just decrypted something importanat, and NYT is going to publish that the Syrian regime in its " final death thores"
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

shyamd wrote: west will start droning at some point - don't worry.
Why don't you worry ?

From all reports, FSA had used a riot control agent (RCA)
Still very early, the video is only 34 minutes old, but the timing is suspect to say the least. UN Inspectors enter the country with the acquiescence of Assad and to welcome them he stages a surface to surface CWA missile barrage and MiG dropped CWA munition extravaganza? The lack of conventional munition marks (though pressure wave or asphyxiation can’t be ruled out) does suggest that it was a non-conventional munition, or a RCA in a confined space, but who fired it and what it was has yet to be proved. If there are 570 fatalities it would suggest that evidence of what it is will not be hard to find, the culprits, however, are another matter…
Read more: http://www.cbrneworld.com/news/attack_i ... z2cl0Janri
He added that the idea that the FSA is single and unified is "a myth," because "there are different factions and something like that could be a win/win for them: launch the attack and raise amount of profile of their cause by the UN."

Winfield said that more than 570 victims, if confirmed, are a lot of people in a not densely populated area. "It means the attack targeted a large area and it is not an isolated incident. If there are 570 fatalities it would suggest that evidence of what it is will not be hard to find."

Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, a former commanding officer at the UK's Joint Chemical Biological Radiological Nuclear Regiment, told the BBC's Today programme that the footage was "horrific" and agreed that it would be "very difficult to stage-manage".

The UK Foreign Secretary William Hague said he is "concerned" by reports of a chemical attack.
..
● We can say there is some form of chemical used. But until we take blood samples, samples of the soil and the water in the area we can't say that a chemical agent has been used," he said. "It can be a riot control agent, like in the recent Egyptian case of the tear gas used in the back of a van that killed 36 prisoners. We have the same symptoms in the children and casualties.

● Winfield said he finds it "suspicious" that in the week UN inspectors enter the country with the acquiescence of Assad, the Government welcomes them with a chemical weapons missile barrage. "It is not impossible that some faction in the Free Syrian Army did it to get attention or maybe it was an accident by an inexperienced operator who may have not realised what he was doing." The security expert said there are numerous cases of riot agent used in a lethal way, for example in confined spaces and not to disperse a crowd.
http://www.cbrneworld.com/news/reflecti ... z2cghLZogh
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

shyamd wrote:All sounds good but ask yourself one thing - does he have the economic wherewithal to support his fight if Russia and Iran stop bankrolling him? Whats the value of the Syrian pound a year ago and today?
You know there are countries like North Korea that survives despite absolute UN sanction and in Gulf Iraq survived quite well with absolute UN sanction on Oil exports ..... Syria is not under absolute UN sanction just by West , so the ROW will still trade with Syria including China , Russia , Iran , Iraq ....you name others. So its in a far better state to survive considering it has border nation where it can trade with.
West is weary for its own interests - you let the rebels win and there will be a massacre of alawi's, let Asad win and there will be massacre of sunni's. Intervene and they become responsible for everything that happens - which he doesnt want to do. The only intervention thats gonna take place is seizing the CW - which is the only serious discussion that s going on between NATO countries.

They are training rebels and sending them into Syria - the minimum they are doing.
The West does not know what it wants and more so after 2 years and seeing how the Jihadist started showing its true colour.
Atleast with Russia , China and Iran it knows what it wants.

The prolonging of war has been a blessing in disguised for Assad and the war has gone past him and the result is for every one to see ..... there are no more talks of taking our Asad in 1 month and problem is solved by West , also a greater realisation that islamist coming to power would mean greater instability in Middle East and the situation in Egypt and Lebanon is not helping either.

So all in all its good for Syria specially for its multi ethnic society and one can see with far better clarity today then it was 2 years back what each party wants.

Though nothing personal against an individual but I really remember your predictions you made months and years back , Asad will fall in 3-6 month , Russia wont stand up to west pressure , China will move out in return from incentive from Saudi ....US is close to bombing , SF here and SF there , something big from Saudi etc ......So really every one on BRF also can see for themself and judge.
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Austin, in response to your first paragraph-
Lets take a look at the examples you provided... Iraq had oil that they could smuggle and they were still trading in other goods. What does NK do? Sells fake USDs, drugs, arms running, starves it's people, Agri crops and trades with PRC for natural resources. So what can Asad held Syria do to sustain a war? Considering at the moment he is bankrupt and is being supplied everything on credit.

In response to your second para - it's Asad's murder of people that led to vacuum and people joining the fight. Jihadi's are filling the gap. West wants democracy and thinks in the long run it will benefit them regardless of Islamists coming to power. Obama had leverage in Egypt in this case his only leverage was military power and sanctions, former which he didn't want to use (because of the risks involved like CW) latter which he used.

Third para- yup Asad played that card well.

Fourth- lol... Lets go through them.
Asad will fall in 3-6 months - firstly, if he had a conscience of killing his own people, he would have packed up and left like the Shah. pretty much everyone from the west to the Turks said the same after I did - which shows again what I was saying is indeed what these govts were thinking based on their intel inputs. Russia - west hasn't gone through with using all it's leverage on Russia yet because Obama wants cooperation on other matters which he sees more important. If Obama pushes for Syria to be given it means losing leverage with Russia on other matters. PRC is playing both sides and if push comes to shove they have privately signalled they'll move away.

You are looking at things in a very shallow/simplistic way - situation is way more complex and fluid - picture is changing by the hour. KSA would have probably acted if the Egypt opportunity didn't come up - then the Houthi's are kicking off in the south to which there have been border clashes in the last month.

US close to bombing - well you can see how Kerry called for bombing campaign in the article published in june etc. SF - well there's no dispute that SF were/are there. Amongst other things I also said Israel will act if Yakhont or S300 is provided to which you denied they would and Israel has done that already. BRF members are free to judge.
vishvak
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vishvak »

When did the planning to bankrole and actual training of al-mobs begin?

Why are refugees, 40000 in the last week alone, not moving towards high-preaching la la lands of Turkey or NATO, but towards few-times-invaded Iraq?
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Obama Officials Weigh Response to Syria Assault
By MARK LANDLER, MARK MAZZETTI and ALISSA J. RUBIN.
WASHINGTON — The day after a deadly assault in Syria that bore many of the hallmarks of a chemical weapons attack, a sharply divided Obama administration on Thursday began weighing potential military responses to President Bashar al-Assad’s forces.

Senior officials from the Pentagon, the State Department and the intelligence agencies met for three and a half hours at the White House on Thursday to deliberate over options, which officials say could range from a cruise missile strike to a more sustained air campaign against Syria.

The meeting broke up without any decision, according to senior officials, amid signs of a deepening division between those who advocate sending Mr. Assad a harsh message and those who argue that military action now would be reckless and ill timed.

Similar debates played out across the Atlantic. France backed the use of force to counter such an attack, and Turkey and Israel expressed outrage. But diplomats in several countries conceded there was no stomach among the Western allies, including the United States, for long-term involvement in a messy, sectarian civil war.

While the Obama administration said it would wait for the findings of a United Nations investigation of the attack, American officials spoke in strikingly tougher terms about what might happen if President Obama determined that chemical weapons were used.

“If these reports are true, it would be an outrageous and flagrant use of chemical weapons by the regime,” the State Department spokeswoman, Jen Psaki, said. “The president, of course, has a range of options that we’ve talked about before that he can certainly consider.”

The United States first confirmed in April that it believed the Syrian government had used chemical weapons, and Obama administration officials responded by signaling that they would supply the rebels with weapons. But to date, none have arrived, opposition officials said.

Among American officials, there was a growing belief that chemical weapons had been used in the latest attack, early Wednesday east of Damascus — potentially the worst of its kind since Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons against the Kurds in Iraq in the 1980s — and little doubt that anyone but Mr. Assad’s forces would have used them.

But given how difficult it was last time to prove the use of chemical weapons, administration officials offered no timetable for how long it might take this time, raising questions about how promptly the United States could act.

Israel said its intelligence strongly suggested a chemical weapons attack, while the Syrian opposition pointed to evidence, including the use of four rockets and the locations from which they were fired, that members of the opposition said proved the attack could have been carried out only by the government’s forces.

An opposition official described an assault that began shortly after 2 a.m., when the rockets, which they said were equipped with chemical weapons, were launched. Two were fired from a bridge on the highway from Damascus to Homs; the others were launched from a Sironex factory in the Qabun neighborhood of the Syrian capital. The Assad government has denied involvement, and Russian officials have accused the rebels of staging the attack.

The rebels said the government’s presumed goal was to weaken the opposition before a major conventional attack with tanks, armored personnel carriers and attack planes. On Thursday, fighting persisted in the area, raising doubts about the ability of the United Nations to send investigators to collect samples from the wounded and dead.

Among the options discussed at the White House, officials said, was a cruise missile strike, which would probably involve Tomahawks launched from a ship in the Mediterranean Sea, where the United States has two destroyers deployed.

The Pentagon also has combat aircraft — fighters and bombers — deployed in the Middle East and in Europe that could be used in an air campaign against Syria. The warplanes could be sent aloft with munitions to be launched from far outside Syrian territory, which is protected by a respectable air defense system.

The targets could include missile or artillery batteries that launch chemical munitions or nerve gas, as well as communications and support facilities. Symbols of the Assad government’s power — headquarters and government offices — also could be among the proposed targets, officials said.

As leaders digested the harrowing images from Syria of victims gasping for breath or trembling, there was a flurry of phone calls among diplomats expressing horror at the calamitous situation in Syria and frustration at the lack of an obvious response.

“They are all bad choices,” said a European diplomat who asked not to be named because of the delicacy of the situation.

Secretary of State John Kerry spoke to Ahmad al-Jarba, the president of the Syrian opposition. Mr. Kerry expressed his condolences and the Obama administration’s “commitment to looking into what has happened on the ground,” Ms. Psaki said.

Mr. Kerry also spoke to Laurent Fabius, the foreign minister of France, who raised the prospect of military action. He called Turkey’s foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu; several Arab foreign ministers; the European Union’s senior foreign policy official, Catherine Ashton; and the secretary general of the United Nations, Ban Ki-moon.

At home, however, officials said the administration remained divided about how to proceed. “There’s a split between those who feel we need to act now and those who feel that now is a very bad time to act,” said one senior official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the administration’s internal deliberations.

The official did not give details about who pushed for a hawkish response to the attack and who urged caution, but he said that some at the White House meeting raised worries that it would take time to build international support for a military response, and that any strikes against Mr. Assad’s government might worsen a refugee crisis that has already placed great strain on Syria’s neighbors, particularly Jordan.

Neither the United States nor European countries yet have a “smoking gun” proving that Mr. Assad’s troops used chemical weapons in the attack, the official said. But he said intelligence agencies had amassed circumstantial evidence that some kind of chemical had been used — not the least of which was the hundreds of casualties.

“The sheer number of bodies is one pretty good indicator,” he said.

If the United States decided to move ahead with a military response with the help of Western allies, it would almost certainly be one more in a lengthening series of conflicts where the United States has played a leading role that would lack the United Nations imprimatur, including in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Mohammad Salaheddine, a Syrian reporter for Al Aan Television, an Arab satellite television station, painted a bleak picture of the situation in East Ghouta, the area near Damascus that was the site of the reported chemical attack.

Mr. Salaheddine was reached by Skype on Thursday with the help of the Syrian Support Group, an American-based organization that backs the opposition.

He asserted that more than 1,500 people had been killed by the chemical attack and that many more had been wounded. The area, he said, was cut off by the fighting, making it hard for opposition members to smuggle hair, urine and blood samples out for analysis.

Adding to the opposition’s frustration, two of its officials said that none of the weapons American officials said would be provided by the C.I.A. had yet been delivered.

Senior United States military officials, in particular Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, have cited the risks and costs of a large-scale military intervention as has been urged by some members of Congress.

Yet the greater political risk now may be to Mr. Obama’s credibility, analysts said, given that he laid down a red line last summer to prevent Mr. Assad from using chemical weapons again.

“Assuming that there was a large-scale chemical attack, it indicates that the regime has not been deterred by the statements coming out of Washington,” said Jeffrey White, a former Middle East analyst with the Defense Intelligence Agency who is now a fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

Mark Landler and Mark Mazzetti reported from Washington, and Alissa J. Rubin from Paris. Michael R. Gordon and Thom Shanker contributed reporting from Washington.
Russia now urging publicly for Syria to cooperate with UN inspectors despite stopping the resolution calling for the CW attack to be investigated.
Austin
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Russia has been saying that for past 2 days for Syria to co-operate.

Just saw in CNN that even if Syria and Rebels agree for UN inspector to reach the site both should agree to a cease fire first and then make sure the security of UN inspectors are guranteed meaning no gunfire etc which will take time to negotiate even if they do so.

Meanwhile breaking news on CNN quoting Pentagon that it has updated target list if there is forceful intervention :lol:
member_27444
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by member_27444 »

There is master data about all chemical weapons origin
Unkil all the resources to trace it back to source but what if he himself supplies by others can't trace it?

BASF is pioneer and so is Bayer both out of Swiss alps
Prem
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Prem »

US Sending Saudi Arabia Thousands of Cluster Bombs, Despite International Ban
http://antiwar.com/blog/2013/08/23/us-s ... ional-ban/
Even as they condemn the Syrian regime’s use of cluster munitions, the U.S. is selling Saudi Arabia $640 million worth of American-made cluster bombs. Cluster munitions have been banned in 83 countries on account of their indiscriminate nature and their record of killing children.These weapons are loathed because in addition to killing enemy combatants, their fairly indiscriminate nature means they can kill plenty of civilians. And not just in the heat of battle. The little ball-shaped bomblets dispersed by cluster munitions don’t always detonate on first impact. Often, they will just sit there on the ground until someone, often a child, picks them up and causes them to explode.The international ban began to take effect in June 2010, just after a U.S. cluster bomb killed 35 women and children in Yemen, with the Pentagon stubbornly refusing to admit to the wrongdoing despite damning evidence compiled by Amnesty International, which was later corroborated by classified diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks.Cluster bombs were used in the initial phases of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, and the Obama administration has firmly opposed their prohibition, as have countries like Saudi Arabia, China, and Russia. What’s that old saying about how you’re known by the company you keep?
On the one hand, the U.S. is desperate to maintain the geo-political dominance it has held over the Middle East at a time when it seems to be slipping through their fingers. And on the other, one of the strongest lobbies in Washington – the defense corporations – really want to proceeds of these nefarious weapons sales. And you gotta please them.
shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

@CNHorn: MT @CBSEveningNews: The Pentagon is making initial preparations for a missile attack on Syrian gov't forces. @CBSDavidMartin has more.

2 legal options: UNGA resolution can authorise war or US can say we were helping an ally Israel - who is technically still in a state of war with Syria

U.S. detected activity at Syria chemical weapons sites before attack

RT @Irozen Diplo source Military chiefs of staff from 7 countries 2 meet in Jordan on #Syria in 3-5 days

US Naval commander orders warships to move closer to Syria to be ready for possible CM strike

US NSA on twitter:

Susan Rice ‏@AmbassadorRice 1h
What is Bashar al Assad hiding? The world is demanding an independent investigation of Wednesday’s apparent CW attack. Immediately. Otherwise, we’ll all conclude that Assad is guilty and lying-again.

Syrian victims of alleged gas attack smuggled to Jordan for blood tests
Samples could help inform international response to incident, as UN inspectors denied access to affected areas of Damascus

At least three victims of the alleged chemical weapons attack in east Damascus on Thursday have been smuggled to Jordan where samples of their blood and urine will help determine which agent was used to gas hundreds of people.

The samples could help inform an international response to the attack, which has sharply upped the stakes in Syria's civil war, drawing demands for recrimination and edging a much-feared regional spillover closer to reality.

Two mosques in Lebanon's second city, whose sheikhs have been persistently critical of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad's regime, were severely damaged by car bombs on Friday . At least 42 worshippers were killed and up to 500 were wounded in the deadliest act of terror to hit the volatile country since the war started across its border two and a half years ago.

The bombs exploded as midday prayers were concluding on the first day of the Islamic weekend. Both mosques were filled with people who, minutes later, would have spilled out into car parks where the explosives-filled vehicles were parked.

"It is already hell on earth here," said Mohammed Dahbi, a mechanic from Tripoli, a Sunni Muslim-dominated city in north Lebanon. "But it could have been worse. So much worse."

A similar attack in Dahiyeh, in the Shia heartland of south Beirut, on 15 August killed 27 people.

Dahiyeh is a hub of operations for the Hezbollah militia. The Syrian war has deepened divisions between the two Islamic sects, which line up on different sides; the Sunnis largely support the opposition in Syria but Hezbollah is resolutely backing the Assad regime.

Hezbollah condemned the Tripoli attack, which it said was aimed at causing "civil strife". However, the condemnation fell on deaf ears near the scene of the blasts, with bystanders angrily blaming the group for the destruction.

"When there's a bomb in their area, they blame 'Takfiris', by whom they mean us," said Ahmed Otthman, referring to a term used to describe radical Islamists. "And when things like this happen to us, they blame Israel."

Tripoli has been the scene of repeated clashes over the past two years between its majority Sunnis and a minority community of Alawites who have remained barricaded on a hilltop suburb near the centre of the city.

The two ruling Syrian families, the Assads and the Makhloufs, are Alawites, and much of the Damascus establishment hails from the sect, which is loosely aligned to Shia Islam and comprises 12% of Syria's population.

Speakers at Friday prayers at each of the mosques had been denouncing the poison gas attack in Syria's Ghouta region, which came as the Syrian military launched a major advance into eastern areas of the capital that it continued to shell on Friday.

United Nations inspectors in Damascus were denied access for a second day to the affected areas of the capital – only seven-10 miles from their hotel.

Sources inside rebel-held districts said an active network of defectors, some of whom had fled the Syrian military's chemical warfare division, were helping to smuggle biological samples from the scenes of the attack to Jordan. At least three more victims suffering mild effects of gassing will be transferred to Jordan in the next few days.

The samples being sourced are biopsies of livers and spleens from fatalities, as well as blood and urine from survivors.

Rebel groups have received contact from investigators identifying themselves as UN team members asking for co-operation in providing samples. The investigators have apparently asked for biological samples to be taken from animals, too. The Guardian has been unable to verify if the contact was from the UN.


A questionnaire distributed to some rebel commanders asks for GPS co-ordinates of the attacks and launch sites as well as all medical records of victims, laboratory results and environmental samples.

Chemical weapons experts interviewed by the Guardian said that symptoms of the dead and dying depicted on videos posted online support a growing view that sarin was the nerve agent used in the attack, which killed up to 1,400 people.

Britain has blamed the Assad regime for the attack, the worst of its kind anywhere since Saddam Hussein's army gassed Kurds in the northern Iraqi town of Halabja in 1988, killing between 3,000-5,000 people.

However, the US continued to toe a cautious line, asking its intelligence community to gather more information before deciding what to do about it.

Eastern Ghouta has been a stronghold of rebel groups for much of the past year. Persistent bombing by Syrian military jets and artillery has been unable to dislodge armed opposition groups who have been poised on the edge of the capital's inner sanctum, but unable to advance.

The Syrian news agency, Sana, said the operation carried out in the early hours of Thursday was the largest launched since the civil war began. It said it aimed to clear the east of the capital and then pave the way for a push towards the Jordanian border, which remains bitterly contested by both sides.

The Syrian regime has been advancing in parts of the country, with the help of forces from Hezbollah, particularly in Homs and the west. However, it has been unable to clear the capital of rebel groups, which continue to pose a potent threat to its institutions.

@NewsBreaker: DEVELOPING: U.S. Joint Chiefs Chair General Dempsey expected to present options for Syria strike at White House tomorrow - @CharlieKayeCBS
habal
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

Fact of the matter is that the US has become a rogue republic.

Their allies plant bombs and chemical attacks, and they take fake outrage and use the outrage to bomb Syria.

Why in hell's name would Assad do a chemical attack when UN inspectors are present. US and allies seem to be the biggest false-flag campaigners in the world.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/from-bosni ... gs/5346659
And it looks like it is common, e.g., before decisions of the United Nations, to perform so-called ”false flag operations”, i.e. fraud attacks against the own population, in order to legitimize military interventions, said Tunander.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/08/22 ... ag-as-911/
“There seems to be almost unanimous agreement at this point that if there is a UN investigation, it should be looking at the strong possibility that this is a false flag event perpetrated by the enemies of the Syrian government in order to try to push for Western intervention in Syria. As we all know, President Obama said that the use of chemical weapons by the Syrian government would be quote ‘a red line’ which would trigger Western intervention against [Syrian President Bashar al-]Assad,” he added.
another viewpoint:

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_08_2 ... ened-5549/
Even if we regard the chemical attack as taking place at 03:30, it is impossible to take the film of the scene and uploading those tens of videos… this shows that terrorists prepared and organized all of the scenes beforehand then accused the Syrian regime of a massacre that terrorists carried out.
once again, it's the Russians who are left alone to channel the truth:
Reports by “biased regional media” about alleged chemical weapons use near Damascus might be “a provocation planned in advance,” says Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman, Aleksandr Lukashevich.

“It draws attention to the fact that biased regional media have immediately, as if on command, begun an aggressive information attack, laying all the responsibility on the government,” Lukashevich said in a statement on Wednesday.

The Russian Foreign Ministry, citing its sources, said that a homemade rocket carrying unidentified chemical substances had been launched from an area controlled by the opposition.
link
Austin
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Syrians doubt use of chemical weapons

http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/wo ... &hpt=hp_t1
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