India Tests Prithvi based ABM

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Postby krishnan » 27 Nov 2006 12:09


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Postby maitya » 27 Nov 2006 12:25

George J wrote:Very interesting indeed. Five second reaction time? Five second detection time? Five seconds to detection, trajectory computation and launch for interception. Five seconds is very nice...based on Arun's presentation on ABM's last year.

Errr ... the "simulated" reaction time looks to be around 60 secs ... per this India conducts successful air defence test of Prithvi-II report.
A second missile was fired from launch complex number 4 located on Wheeler Island off the Bhadrak district coast in the Bay of Bengal about 60 seconds later

Betw, welcome back GeorgeJ ... the Su-30 thread was sorely missing you!! :wink:

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Postby Sudhir » 27 Nov 2006 13:00

Anyone recall the picture of the Pritivi version with the modified nose cone? Posted about 3 years ago from the MOD annual report.

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Postby Nalla Baalu » 27 Nov 2006 13:10

Yep! A missile far skinnier than Prithvi I/II on a truck (in front of what looked like a workshop entrance) with a distincly sharp nose cone and its mid-body fins clipped/removed.

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Postby rakall » 27 Nov 2006 13:17

I hope they release some visuals to the media.

I have a feeling the defending missile is a new missile under the smoke screen of Prithvi.

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Postby Shankar » 27 Nov 2006 13:24

in fact after completion of development trail of prthvi the same missile design group was diverted to development of the anti ballistic missile missile which is supposed to be five time faster than prthvi in the boost phase giving it enough reaction margin to search and destroy as any short range bm enters atmosphere detecting by thermal/accoustic signature .

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Postby Anabhaya » 27 Nov 2006 15:12

Sudhir wrote:Anyone recall the picture of the Pritivi version with the modified nose cone? Posted about 3 years ago from the MOD annual report.


This is the picture.

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Postby Gerard » 27 Nov 2006 15:28

Coordinated launch of 2 Prithvi missiles
The Prithvi-2, as a target missile, was first launched from the launch complex No. 3 of the integrated test range (ITR) at Chandipur at around 1015 hours, sources said. A second missile was fired from launch complex No. 4 located in the Wheeler's Island off the Bhadrak district coast in the Bay of Bengal about 60 seconds later to intercept the first, they added.
The trajectories of both missiles were programmed to intercept each other in mid-air over the sea. The Wheeler's Island is located about 72 km south of Chandipur. According to sources, the target missile interception time was programmed at 170/175 seconds, while the missile from Wheeler's Island blasted off roughly 60 seconds later with interception time of 110/117 seconds.

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Postby Anabhaya » 27 Nov 2006 15:38

PTI - whose reports have been used in Hindu News Updatesand NDTV sites specifically mention that the planned collision did occur.

The interception occurred over the Bay of Bengal, the source said.

Confirming the success, a senior scientist at the ITR said: "It is a great success. It is a moment of pride for the people of the entire country".

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Postby Nalla Baalu » 27 Nov 2006 15:49

When was the last time a senior DRDO scientist exclaimed thus in public?
a senior scientist at the ITR said: "It is a great success. It is a moment of pride for the people of the entire country".

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Postby Raj Malhotra » 27 Nov 2006 15:58

Apart from being used as an ABM, prehaps the Pakistani awacs may also be supressed by this missile.

Assuming a range of 200-400km against subsonic low g maneuvreing target, the whole of Pakistani aerospace can be covered such that no major AWACS, ELINT, SIGNINT, SAR etc type of air borne platforms will have any significant capacity-time-ability to recce India.

I also wonder whether we can use this missile to hit Pak aerostat mounted radars when and if they are deployed.

This test also demonstrates that Prithvi is/can be mounted with teminal guidance sensors which can be MMW, IR or both.

I wonder what is the maneuvering capability of Prithvi missiles? Has to more than 8g of Brahmos, I suppose!

If we read the reports carefully, while they do say that target missile is Prithvi-2 but interceptor missile is just described as "second missile".

Assuming that ABM programme was sanctioned in and around 1998-99 then the conducting of the first few tests now after around 6-8 years would make sense.

Though I suppose to prefect the missile and to bring it to production should mean atleast another 10 years

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Postby shyamd » 27 Nov 2006 16:31

India successfully tests anti-missile capability
In a major breakthrough, the country's defence scientists today successfully carried out a surface to surface missile (SSM) interception over the Bay of Bengal brightening the prospects of development of an indigenous anti-missile shield.

A target Prithvi missile was launched from Interim Missile Test Range near here at Chandipur, at 1015 hours, its trajectory continously monitored and then it was successfully intercepted by another missile fired from the Wheeler Islands.

Though, the Navy has successfully conducted missile interceptions over sea using Israeli Barak missiles, this was for the first time defence scientists have successfully carried out interception of a surface to surface missile missile (SSM), which could bring some relief as India actively faces a threat from the presence of nuclear capabile missile in the neighbourhood.

The interceptor missile, which was in anti-missile mode, was not not indentified by the DRDO officials who said "the interceptor missile had inertial guidance mid-course and active-seeker guidance in its terminal phase".

DRDO had for years been working on making Trishul missile into an indigenous anti-missile system trying to incorporate into it the capability of taking on multi-targets at the same time. But the missile had failed many of its critical tests.

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Postby Bala_R » 27 Nov 2006 16:35

Congratulations to DRDO! This is the first step in ABM.

This time they had planned the trajectories for the target missile in advance, which was known to the ABM. Few more such tests are required to boost the confidence further. Later on they should be testing against Prithvi's whose tragectories are not known to the ABM in advance, so as to test it against real time scenario.

This test is a good beginning for an effective ABM.

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Postby rakall » 27 Nov 2006 16:38

Gerard wrote:. According to sources, the target missile interception time was programmed at 170/175 seconds, while the missile from Wheeler's Island blasted off roughly 60 seconds later with interception time of 110/117 seconds.


Given the 7second time window for the interception -- there must have been some kind of "seeking" mechanism on the second missile! Possibly IR or radar seeker !!

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Postby krishnan » 27 Nov 2006 16:40

Still something remains un-answered , which is this interceptor missile that they are talking abt. Why are they so secretive abt it?

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Postby Shankar » 27 Nov 2006 16:56

This series of tests is becomming more more and more interesting to study.

- could it be arrow 2 and or s-300/400 demo going with prthvi may be soon to taken off the inventory with induction of agni 1 being used up as target missile .Maybe prthvi target missile was launched from wheeler island and interceptor missile arrow 2/s-300 launched from interim test range .That would perfectly explain evacuation of nearby villages

The same smoke screen was there during brahmos test when it was planted in ddm that osa ak is being tested while in reality it was a demo test of brahmos .

Whatever it was surely not one prthvi against another prthvi -drdo should have come out with abetter cover story or may it was meant to be seen thru

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Postby Singha » 27 Nov 2006 16:59

because its the first test and keeping it semi-secret spreads more FUD than
revealing photos and specs at such an early stage. I am sure phone lines between rawalpindi and beijing are busy today. Hope they hid the missile under a tent and rolled it out when no spysats were around.

I agree having it mounted on a x-country Tatra and solid fueled permits stationing quietly all along the border to snipe at big targets like transport, LRMP and AEW aircraft. with a ARM seeker borrowed from KH31P ......

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Postby Shankar » 27 Nov 2006 17:03

Just went over the arrow 2 specs in detail -the interceptor missile i think repeaeat i think was arrow 2 or its indian derivative

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India acquires anti-missile capability

Postby Nayak » 27 Nov 2006 17:07

India acquires anti-missile capability

Balasore, Nov. 27 (PTI): In a major breakthrough, country's defence scientists today successfully carried out a surface to surface missile interception over the Bay of Bengal brightening the prospects of development of an indigenous anti-missile shield.

A target Prithvi missile was launched from Interim Missile Test Range near here at Chandipur, at 1015 hours, its trajectory continuously monitored and then it was successfully intercepted by another missile fired from the Wheeler Islands.

Though, the Navy has successfully conducted missile interceptions over sea using Israeli Barak missiles, this was for the first time defence scientists have successfully carried out interception of Surface to Surface missile, which could bring some relief as India actively faces a threat from the presence of nuclear capable missile in the neighbourhood. The interceptor missile, which was in anti-missile mode, was not identified by the DRDO officials who said "the interceptor missile had inertial guidance mid-course and active-seeker guidance in its terminal phase".

The DRDO had for years been working on making Trishul missile into an indigenous anti-missile system trying to incorporate into it the capability of taking on multi-targets at the same time. But the missile had failed many of its critical tests.

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India carries out successful missile collision

Postby Nayak » 27 Nov 2006 17:09

India carries out successful missile collision

BHUBANESWAR (Reuters) - Two nuclear-capable ballistic missiles collided in mid-air off India's eastern coast on Monday in a successful test of an interception programme, a top scientist said.

The collision of the two Prithvi-II missiles occurred over the Bay of Bengal.

"The two missiles had a flight duration of six minutes before they blew up into a ball of fire over the sea after hitting each other," the defence scientist, who did not want to be identified, told Reuters by phone. "It was successful."

The test was done to observe the accuracy and operational effectiveness of short-range Prithvi missiles in providing an air-shield to Indian cities from neighbours Pakistan and China, both of which have arsenals of ballistic missiles.

Monday's test was carried out as Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee held informal talks with his Pakistani counterpart, Khursheed Mehmood Kasuri, in New Delhi.

On Nov. 19, India successfully test-fired another Prithvi II into the Bay of Bengal.


© Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.

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Postby Singha » 27 Nov 2006 17:12

arrow 2 or its indian derivative

it must never a imported product that Unkil can pinch. "co-development" and "clone" are the words to use with all the critical parts made in India including perhaps a non-israeli(no US components) seeker and our own propellant.
even if end result is 80 % of Arrow2, it will be available and immune to psyops play.

Citron tree tech will be a lot easier to trasfer being cots type hw and sw. very difficult to track such "co develop" TOT.

time to establish a brahmos type JV with israel and use that as a tunnel to come and go from haifa as desired...

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Postby rakall » 27 Nov 2006 17:15

Shankar wrote:Just went over the arrow 2 specs in detail -the interceptor missile i think repeaeat i think was arrow 2 or its indian derivative


Lets hope it is an indian derivative..

if it was an arrow2 then there was no point testing it against Prithvi.. its an easier target.. targeting an Agni in flight after the re-entry would have been a better 'test' if we are coughing up dollars for it..

Since ABM project has been sanctioned a while back.. and RM quoted in parliament that we wont accept any foreign shield -- could be an indian effort.. even if it is a CtrlC, CtrlV of Arrow2.

But we still have not conclusively debunked the 2-prithvi theory.. thats the first step..

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Postby negi » 27 Nov 2006 17:28

Arun_s >>
Jai Bam Bam Bholey....

I too think this was a solid fuelled interceptor test. The ABM has been in the making for quite some time. Someone hinted that the 0.8m dia solid fuel maraging case motor that DRDO showed 4 years ago in one of its publication was ABM.

All news reports well publicized evacuation of neighboring village seems to signal testing a new missile type.


Hm... 0.8m solid fuel motor , intresting note following are the Arrow-II specs.

Missile length 7.0m
Missile diameter 800mm
Missile launch weight 1,300kg .

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Postby Ajay K » 27 Nov 2006 17:50

Folks, it would be interesting to see the following tests in the future.

1. Akash against Prithivi or Agni.
2. Agni II (ABM version) against Agni I/II/III or IV.
3. Trisul/Barak II against Klub or Sagarika or Harpooniski or Dhanush.
4. Akash against Klub or Sagarika or Harpooniski or Dhanush.

Is it possible to intercept a brahmos?

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Postby Anabhaya » 27 Nov 2006 17:56

"Prithvi-III" was first test fired in 2004. If that P-III is what we call 'Baan' then it surely cannot be a imported one.

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Postby mandrake » 27 Nov 2006 18:05

Ajay K wrote:Folks, it would be interesting to see the following tests in the future.

1. Akash against Prithivi or Agni.
2. Agni II (ABM version) against Agni I/II/III or IV.
3. Trisul/Barak II against Klub or Sagarika or Harpooniski or Dhanush.
4. Akash against Klub or Sagarika or Harpooniski or Dhanush.

Is it possible to intercept a brahmos?


It should be more like,
1> Akash against Prithvi , Multiple Air planes , civil air planes.
2> This thing against Agni.
3> Barak II against Sagarika

please i dont want to risk any more destroyer by testing brahmos.
Do you know in force magazine the Air Launched Brahmos will have FRIGGIN 9 PROFILE and can change its way 9 times!!!!

but anyways we should test this barak II against a ballistic missile after entering atmosphere, remember US is developing Hyfly missile which will have scramjet like speed and because of its speed it will be a cruise missile but using a ballistic trajectory.

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Postby Shankar » 27 Nov 2006 18:12

arrow 2 specifications from army technology .com

Radar frequency L band
Detection range 500km
Target speed Over 3km/s
Missile guidance to distance from target 4m from target
Missile

Missile length 7.0m
Missile diameter 800mm

Missile launch weight 1,300kg
Launch canisters per launcher 6
Missile Performance
Missile velocity Mach 9
Maximum range 70.0km
Maximum range of flight 90.0km
Minimum altitude 8,000m
Maximum altitude 50,000m

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Postby Shankar » 27 Nov 2006 18:19

The intercept altitude of arrow 2 is 10-50 km and at a max range of 90 kms from launch point . After 100 plus sceonds from launch prthvi will neatly fly into the cold box and the next 60 seconds were to intercept and kill with directed high explossive blast fragmentation warhead.

This is also the graded way israel tested arrow series of missiles .After a couple of intercepts the target miszsile will be changed to agni 2 /1 and the real efficeancy of the system will be put to test This are more of radar calibration ,missile auto launch system de bugguing etc since in all probability arrow 2 mki or baan whatever you call it has lot of indian software which are being put to use first time

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Postby akutcher » 27 Nov 2006 18:21

IMO we are getting little if any any Israeli help in our ABM, had our system been based on Arrow wont that mean it would have used an explosive warhead instead of the widely reported hit-to-kill type? And AFAIK the two type of warheads require very different design approaches

I like most peopl agree that the 800mm solid motor displayed earlier is the best fit for an ABM, but similar dia of DRDO and Israeli missile is far from conclusive evidence of any israeli hand....... one thing is true though, if our ABM is based upon the Arrow it would take a far less number of tests to convince the generals of its capabilities

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Postby joy_roy » 27 Nov 2006 18:28

a missile of similar performance can very well have same size and shape...and its very possible that losta input have gone into this ABM from ARROW 2.

P.S: ADMINS...a message is coming up a lot nowadays when i try to post saying " NO POST MODE SPECIFIED"... i had to click 3...4..sometimes even more times to post..and copy the entire stuff so that i dont have to write it over and over again!!how can i solve this prob?

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Postby Austin » 27 Nov 2006 18:46

Thanks Arun :)

url=http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/nov/27missile.htm]"Heartiest congratulations," Antony said in a message to the country's top missile scientists, including V K Saraswat[/url]

So this is the same 100 Km ABM missile which was being developed under DR Saraswat which was reveled last year

This is the Defence News Article of Feb 26 2005

Indians Divided on Air Defense
Weigh Domestic, U.S. Solutions

By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI, NEW DELHI
More capable air defense has been a top government priority here for several years. To meet the Army’s future requirements, the DRDO diverted some funds from its missile program in January 2003 to begin developing its own air defense system capable of tracking ballistic missiles.

The Research Centre Imarat (RCI) in Hyderabad, a premier defense laboratory that produces the Agni and Prithvi missile systems and is under the administrative control of DRDO, has been developing a system since early 2003 that would have a range of 100 kilometers.

A DRDO scientist said the previous National Democratic Alliance government was so impressed with the RCI proposal that $444.4 million was allotted in June 2003 to complete the indigenous air defense system by 2008.

Vijay Kumar Saraswat, RCI director, said Feb 10 that the system RCI is working on will be superior to the Patriot-2 and Russia’s S-300 PMU, and will be ready to enter service by 2008. Saraswat claimed the system will have a mobile launcher carrying three surface-to-air, solid-fuel missiles, equipped with directional warheads.

He said the unnamed system will begin flight trials in mid-2006. RCI will carry out about 10 flights before deploying it with the Indian defense forces.

The DRDO scientist said the indigenous air defense system will have a mission control system that will conduct target acquisition, classification and track estimation, among other functions.


He said another major element is the active phased-array radar system purchased from Israel. Called Sword Fish, the system was purchased in early 2004 for $50 million and is undergoing trials at Hasan in Karnataka state.

Once the air defense system is operational, the DRDO scientist said, RCI will integrate it with other defense systems via satellite links and a secure digital data link that will enable it to track and transmit data up to a range of 1,000 kilometers. [/url]

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Postby uddu » 27 Nov 2006 19:00

What abt this?
http://www.drdo.org/pub/techfocus/aug04/missile15.htm
I had asked the question before. Received no answer.

AAD is different from Trishul and Akash.

"These systems have undergone all the technical trials successfully including track trials, electromagnetic interference/electromagnetic compatibility trials, and flight trials."

This may not be the one. But what is this?

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Postby Austin » 27 Nov 2006 19:19

That vehical looks like the Autonomous Launcher of the Brahmos super sonic cruise missile

See no reason why it cant carry 3 Mobile Anti Missile Defence System :)

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Postby uddu » 27 Nov 2006 19:32

It's Air/Mizzile defence thing like Trishul, Akash.

Not Brahmos. Brahmos is here.
http://www.drdo.org/pub/techfocus/aug04/missile17.htm

K-15 here
http://www.drdo.org/pub/techfocus/aug04/missile13.htm

I noticed the three thing. Is it to test the single missile of todays. But why did it says that mizzile already tested.

Another interesting thing. Notice the Sagarika launcher.
http://www.drdo.org/pub/techfocus/aug04/can_mobile.jpg

This is different from the Brahmos launcher, since it is in the K-15 article and not in the Brahmos one. And hence Sagarika may be a different missile. (A cruise missile like Brahmos but not Brahmos).
Last edited by uddu on 27 Nov 2006 19:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Anabhaya » 27 Nov 2006 19:41

From the Tech focus link

AAD Programme - Army Air Defense

The launcher has ‘stop-slew-launch’ and ‘launch-while-track’ capability - for quick reaction.

This new missile is the AAD missile - Baan.

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Postby Austin » 27 Nov 2006 19:41

I dont know what AAD stands for , But the ABM system under development goes by the designation of Project AD ( Air Defence ) in DRDO.

Its possible the vehical could be related to the same

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Postby Kanson » 27 Nov 2006 19:41

To meet the Army’s future requirements, the DRDO diverted some funds from its missile program in January 2003 to begin developing its own air defense system capable of tracking ballistic missiles.

As per BR,first Prithvi-3 test was done on Jan 2004. So from Jan 03 to Jan 04, 12 months duration. hmm..If DRDO can do it in 15 months for Agni-I @ 2000, it is possible to do in 12 months after 3 yrs later....not a big difference..

The article published on feb 2005, hmm..well some 3/4 Prithvi-3 tests were completed by that time..

Guyz.. dont get me wrong.. Just checking my maths formula is working or not :lol: ...everyone is allowed to use their own formula :wink:

He said the unnamed system will begin flight trials in mid-2006.
If it is true..so without testing the parameters not even once they are straight-a-way using it against target missile...interesting :eek:

The Research Centre Imarat (RCI) in Hyderabad, a premier defense laboratory that produces the Agni and Prithvi missile systems and is under the administrative control of DRDO, has been developing a system since early 2003 that would have a range of 100 kilometers.


Becoz they also developed Prithvi and the missile is in 100km range, they are calling it Prithvi it seems :roll: ...Are they going to call it as Prithvi-0 as the range is less than Prithvi-I, like what they did with Agni-I :D

Man.. i am looking like a conspiracy theorist..let me stop the game for a while :evil:

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Postby Kanson » 27 Nov 2006 19:45

The launcher has ‘stop-slew-launch’ and ‘launch-while-track’ capability - for quick reaction.


ABMs are VLS type.

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Postby uddu » 27 Nov 2006 19:48

It's the media calling it the Prithvi. And they must have just let it be called Prithvi by the Media to have some fun.

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Postby Tilak » 27 Nov 2006 19:57


India claims successful missile interception test

27 November 2006
IHT

NEW DELHI: India on Monday carried out its first-ever successful test interception of a ballistic missile, using a second missile to kill the incoming rocket, the defense ministry said.

If the interceptor missile, the medium-range and nuclear-capable Prithvi II missile, can be transformed into a viable defense system, it would push India into an elite club of nations with working missile shields.

Such a system would vastly boost India's defensive capabilities, especially against neighboring Pakistan. The longtime rivals are both nuclear-armed.

"The country today achieved a significant milestone in missile defense system," the Defense Ministry said in a statement. "It acquired the capability for air defense against incoming ballistic missile threats at 10:25 (0455 GMT) hours this morning."

According to the ministry, the first missile, a modified Prithvi II simulating the "adversary's missile," was launched from the Chandipore test range about 250 kilometers (155 miles) north of Bhubaneswar, capital of India's Orissa state.

The interceptor, also a Prithvi, was fired one minute later from the Wheeler's Island missile testing center. The island is in the Bay of Bengal, about 170 kilometers (105 miles) north of Bhubaneswar.

In July, India reported a successful test firing of the longer-range Agni II nuclear missile for a full day before acknowledging the test failed, with the missile plunging into the sea short of its target.

But this time Defense Minister A. K. Antony was quick to convey "his heartiest congratulations" to the development team, the statement said.

The test caught observers by surprise, particularly the use of the Prithvi, which until now had been used only as surface-to-surface missile.

A successful missile kill would represent a major advance for India, analysts said.

"The technology is hard and you have to be working for years," said Robin Hughes, the deputy editor of Janes Defense Weekly. "If they have done that in the first test, it is an exceptional advance in technology."

However, the true capabilities could only be known once India revealed further details about the system, he said.

Most of the technology was home grown and was "validated through this successful mission," the defense ministry statement said.

The nuclear-capable Prithvi II can carry a conventional payload of up to 500 kilograms (1100 pounds) and has a range of 250 kilometers (155 miles). The move to modify it comes after the repeated failure of India's Trishul anti-missile project.

Monday's test also represented a victory for India's domestic missile program.

"This has great political significance for the DRDO since the recent avalanche of failures, so this success is important for them," said Gen. Ashok Mehta, a retired officer and military commentator.

However, he noted that it was only the first step in a process that would require at least 30 successful tests before the system could be brought online.

India has also been in talks with the Israel, the U.S. and Russia to buy a proven anti-missile defense system, and the Press Trust of India news agency quoted an unnamed defense officials as saying India would still pursue such options.

Mehta said the test was also a message to Pakistan, which does not any similar capacity.

The interceptor test comes a week after the firing of a single Prithvi II missile, and 10 days after Pakistan carried out a similar test of its nuclear-capable Ghauri missile, also known as the Hatf 5.

The competing missile tests came after the countries concluded a crucial round of peace talks in New Delhi aimed at resolving their differences, including the thorny issue of their territorial dispute over the Himalayan region of Kashmir.

India routinely test-fires missiles it is developing for military use, as does Pakistan. Both countries are usually informed ahead of time of the other's tests.

The official said that some 3,000 people from five villages within a radius of 200 kilometers (125 miles) from Chandipore were temporarily evacuated as a precaution while the test took place.
Last edited by Tilak on 27 Nov 2006 20:22, edited 1 time in total.


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