Pakistani plot to explode dirty nuke foiled

sandy · Post by **sandy** » 10 Jun 2002 20:35

Just CNN breaking News told that a US citizen named Jose Padia also known as ABDULLAH AL MUJAHIR was arrsted with help FBI and CIA after receiving specific information from Abduall Jobedab who was held in custody in connection with 9/11 in attempt to explode radio active dirty bomb in Us cities,probably to Washinton DC.
This guy went to Karachi/Pakistan twice for training in dirty bombs.Details are coming soon-

bikram

Admin Note Please DO NOT put title in capital. You guys are not new to the internet.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 10 Jun 2002 20:41

The news says they suspect the target would have been Washington D.C.

Also, check this out...it was in the news MONTHS ago!
ISLAM EXPERT WARNS OF NUCLEAR TERROR DEVICES INSIDE U.S.

“I told them several years ago that Muslim Pakistanis brought into the U.S. a small nuclear device called a ‘dirty bomb’ through Niagara Falls out of Canada,” Dr. Morey says. “They are driving this nuclear device in the back of a van or a car waiting for Bin Laden to tell them when it’s time to set it off.” Dr. Morey received the information through Pakistani Christian sources.

The passage of time has not eased Dr. Morey’s concerns. “My contacts now within the intelligence community have leaked to me it is feared there are three such devices in the U.S.,” he says.

Dr. Morey sees a number of signs the federal government is taking the nuclear threat seriously. “At one point they put on a high alert for Washington D.C.,” he says, “and Delta Force was flown in. They have now placed radiation detectors on all the main thoroughfares into Washington and even along the Potomac River.”

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 10 Jun 2002 20:45

Good God.

Has there ever been ANY international terrorist who has not been to or been trained in TSP?

Sheesh....

jarugn · Post by **jarugn** » 10 Jun 2002 20:48

ABC news claims he is Chicago street gang member went to Pakistan to train. The target of the bomb is Washington DC.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/chicagosuspect020610.html

Ashcroft said al Mujahir is a former Chicago street gang member who converted to Islam while in prison in the early 1990s. After serving his time, he traveled to Afghanistan and Pakistan for training in al Qaeda camps, where he was trained in how to wire explosive devices and create radioactive dispersion devices, Ashcroft said.

The attorney general said al Qaeda apparently believed that Mujahir would be permitted to travel freely within the United States because of his U.S. citizenship and because he carried a U.S. passport.

Al Mujahir met in early 2001 with senior al Qaeda officials, Ashcroft said. He was arrested by federal authorities on May 8 at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport while returning from Pakistan.

The probable target of Mujahir's plans to detonate the bomb was Washington, a U.S. official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity. The plot was not believed to have passed the early planning stages.

jarugn · Post by **jarugn** » 10 Jun 2002 20:51

Pakistan traning and aide needs to be emphasized here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25122-2002Jun10.html

Umrao · Post by **Umrao** » 10 Jun 2002 20:58

Dont worry the SD and Callin Powell will certify Pakistan as a key allie one more time.

Actually incidents like this will (be used by Mushy)consolidate the pre eminent postion of Mushy and his gang, since SD will spin how important Mushy is because with out him we wouldn't know how to catch the terror scum at large!!

sandy · Post by **sandy** » 10 Jun 2002 21:00

This Guy was converted to Islam few years back and was held at Chiago airport recently in his flight back to Pakistan.He was recruited by AL_QUEDA and he went for extensive training in Pakistan for explosives and wiring dirty bombs.

bikram

Jash · Post by **Jash** » 10 Jun 2002 21:02

Fact we know now is he was trained in Fukistan to use nuclear device. It means nuclear wing of ISI trained this dud. So gov. of Fukistan is involeved here. This means tips must be given by some moderate ISI guy who just believe for Kashmir cause rather than spreading Islam(though may be less than 0.001% in Fukiland), and that guy may be supporter of Mushy.
This means there is split in ISI One side 0.001% moderate believe in only Kashmir cause and other side 99.99% Islamic fundoos like of Hamid Gul who wants to spread Islam by terror like in 13th century.This is the reason Uncle wants Mushy to get these kind of info. Mushy knows this so he will play a game by giving some bait to Uncle for more help for Kashmir cause. Here India have to find a strategy to counter this game played by Mushy.

Arun A · Post by **Arun A** » 10 Jun 2002 21:05

Good news: The guy got caught(his target was DC..too close to home)

Better news: This should focus attention on TSPs nukes. Time to whip out the TSP nuke scientist met OBL reports and post them all over the internet. Now you see why having a seperate folder for non-Indian news items about P being a TS makes sense?

P Babu · Post by **P Babu** » 10 Jun 2002 21:06

Pakistan should be treated no different than Afghanistan. It is high time US gives us the signal to clear up the mess next door or it will not be just india who has to pay the price..
But somehow i am not that comfortable to have US troops nextdoor..

Rudra · Post by **Rudra** » 10 Jun 2002 21:09

dont worry, I think if any price is to
be extracted ,then they will go for USA first.
India hangs lower in the honour roll of people
to hit.

Sanjay Joshi · Post by **Sanjay Joshi** » 10 Jun 2002 21:09

Thank God this madman was caught at the airport. I am less than 30 miles away from O Hare.

Better news: This should focus attention on TSPs nukes. Time to whip out the TSP nuke scientist met OBL reports and post them all over the internet. Now you see why having a seperate folder for non-Indian news items about P being a TS makes sense?[/b][/quote]

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 10 Jun 2002 21:09

JUmrao is in a particularly bitter mood today

But you're right, this will probably cause panicky Americans to cling to Mushy even more.

Besides, it was the reason in the first place. The US was apprehensive of this dirty bomb nuclear attack. Check the link in my previous post. Clearly, the US had sniffed plots like this much earlier.

So apart from the diplomatic embarassment to Pak, nothing will change. Our guys should make an issue of it though.

1) Build a case for urgently destroying Pak's nuclear capability, especially by now bringing American public opinion to our side.

2) Show that China's policy of nuclearizing rogue states to harass strategic competitors seems to be working...and that in future China will probably do the same with others too. Note China's recent overtures to Libya, Iran, etc.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jun 2002 21:11

jash is right. This is no AlQ/OBL operation. Training in radioactive compounds is involeved. It means the TSP govt agencies are involved no matter what the spin is. Rememeber the scientists connected to TSP establishment who were OBL sympathizers? All this points to one thing the nightmare scenario that N^3 talked about in early phase of the GOAT and also the kid glove treatment that Mushy is getting.
Folks Mushy is on a tightrope. He could be replaced by Aziz.
Also note the bloke was arrested in May 8 and a month later they are announcing it from Moscow ! Is there a Russian tie in?

Also remember the fears of attacks on banks etc in the East coast. Banks are in downtown so all this ties in.

Umrao · Post by **Umrao** » 10 Jun 2002 21:18

Originally posted by ramana:
jash is right. This is no AlQ/OBL operation. Training in radioactive compounds is involeved. It means the TSP govt agencies are involved no matter what the spin is. Rememeber the scientists connected to TSP establishment who were OBL sympathizers? All this points to one thing the nightmare scenario that N^3 talked about in early phase of the GOAT and also the kid glove treatment that Mushy is getting.
Folks Mushy is on a tightrope. He could be replaced by Aziz.
Also note the bloke was arrested in May 8 and a month later they are announcing it from Moscow ! Is there a Russian tie in?

Also remember the fears of attacks on banks etc in the East coast. Banks are in downtown so all this ties in.

ramana garu>> I had posted this earlier in (IIRC 2000). The Russians had tipped CIA in June 2000, about a jordanian national who was caught with OBL/Alqueeda tapes, videos and manuals to make bombs. This news report was aired on NPR, way before 9-11 and it gave details of how Pakistan and ISI were involved in the training and support facilities for the terrorists. (It was in all thing considered, Linda worthheimer (sp) ).

The SD knows full well how deep KSA and TSP are into this evil games against the US.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 10 Jun 2002 21:21

Originally posted by ramana:
Rememeber the scientists connected to TSP establishment who were OBL sympathizers?

Paki nuke scientist questioned
US fears Laden got nuclear help
Al-qaeda sought Nuclear Scientists
Nuclear Pakistan-Implications for national and International security from SAAG

Rudra · Post by **Rudra** » 10 Jun 2002 21:23

they will try to blame it on rogue Ru scientists
and loose control on fissile material than the
real culprits.

Arun A · Post by **Arun A** » 10 Jun 2002 21:24

Does anyone remember the radioactive material found in a Russian park. Caesium i think.

sandy · Post by **sandy** » 10 Jun 2002 21:33

Here's the BBC's tone down version-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_2036000/2036705.stm

bikram

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jun 2002 22:18

Umrao yes you have been telling about this for a long time. In fact in the Pak nuke thread you made a post on June 7th about the dangers of a suitcase thing from Pakistan and how Tim had poohpoohed us. So you were ahead of the curve.
I should have made myself clear that jash was the one to make the link to ISI nooke wing in this context. That is what I am saying he is right. Its a TSP govt operation. I dont know how long SD will be in denial and keep postponing the day of reckoning for their al-lie. They will emphasize the AlQ connection while keeping a quiet eye on ISI from now on.

I really wonder if Mushy's days are numbered from a potential coup. Aziz must be fuming or he might have tossed this Mujahir to earn uncle's good will when he takes over?

FOXNEWS had a segment at 9:00 AM PST wherein the anchor questioned the ISI co-operation being rendered to US and the guest turned it around. He said the guy may have been nabbed due to the Al-lie cooperating.
I think if there was true co-operation the guy would have been nabbed and shipped to US with federal marshals. So the denial is still there.

BTW it is Linda Wertheimer of All things Considered. Her spouse is Fred Wertheimer of Common cause a public interest NGO.

Rak · Post by **Rak** » 10 Jun 2002 22:20

You cannot really call him a Pakistani. That's
the beauty of Pakistan's Global terrorism effort.

This guy is a US citizen.

Also the Shaik from Kuwait - the alledged
mastermind of 9/11, disowned by Kuwait,
is indeed a Pak. citizen. But Pakistan doesn't
know it or simply says "me no speak american".

Pakistan is not a nation state. It is a ghetto
of lawlessness and terror.

Rak · Post by **Rak** » 10 Jun 2002 22:23

Originally posted by ramana:
In fact in the Pak nuke thread you made a post on June 7th about the dangers of a suitcase thing from Pakistan and how Tim had poohpoohed us.

It is part of the american psyche. They say
"who are these trifle characters to warn us ?
Pffff... we are the US."

Its all part of the image projection, which
India sucks at big time.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Jun 2002 22:48

While we wallow in the intricacies of AQ/Taliban/TSP nuke scientists/etc, the streets are going to be filled with THEM. It is US (not United States) vs. THEM. And, that is THE ONLY way to see the issue. Sadly (

), Mush also falls in the THEM category. Current certifications cannot remove what has been stamped in the brain from conception in these THEM guys. With all due respect to CP and SD, before the SD warriors come out to hijack the thread.

I seriously think that SD should close their Indian Continent Desk. It has repeatedly failed to be counted upon. Mush should be used to keep the THEM off balance. Mush is expendable - he is not worth a pub in LA - no longer.

If this event does not change the thinking within the US, I am not sure what will. Also, if such an event were to happen in India, I hope the US and the rest would have the decency to let India fight to death, rather than have a city polluted and the TSpians go free. Yeah, Mush can do only so much. Get him out of there and we can do much more.

Sunder · Post by **Sunder** » 10 Jun 2002 23:07

Which leads to the question of "homeland security".

If TSP can train a US Citizen and smuggle dirty bombs into the US via Canada, how many such ISI bombs are secretly sitting here in Mumbai/Delhi/Kolkata ?

We already know that RDX is being exported by the tons into India and it SHOULD NOT come as a surprise if we find <u>hundreds</u> of such dirty bombs if not more - already hatching here in India..

Indian Counter-Intelligence Departments need better infiltration procedures than we already have.

Umrao · Post by **Umrao** » 10 Jun 2002 23:11

Originally posted by Sunder:
Which leads to the question of "homeland security".

If TSP can train a US Citizen and smuggle dirty bombs into the US via Canada, how many such ISI bombs are secretly sitting here in Mumbai/Delhi/Kolkata ?

We already know that RDX is being exported by the tons into India and it SHOULD NOT come as a surprise if we find <u>hundreds</u> of such dirty bombs if not more - already hatching here in India..

Indian Counter-Intelligence Departments need better infiltration procedures than we already have.

I think ICI is on top of this situation. Not a problem ( ICI --- Indian Counter Intelligence).

Recall the telegraph report, how Uncle was impressed with the dossier on CBT data, mind you uncle verified the same data for a small bill of $2 Million!!

.

GOI and Babus are the smartest you can run into.

member_4339 · Post by **member_4339** » 10 Jun 2002 23:12

Does anybody think this will wakeup the Bush Administration from its grand hallucination and see that Musharraf is not the real pakistan?

Sunder · Post by **Sunder** » 10 Jun 2002 23:23

Originally posted by John Umrao:
GOI and Babus are the smartest you can run into.[/QB]

That's some reassurance

and it is good to know.. I only hope we can amend our nuclear doctrine to include that the detonation of a Dirty bomb on our soil will also be treated as a nuclear agression, and that the retaliation will be the same as it would be in any other Nuclear strike from our adversaries.

The only problem with reactive strategies (rather than proactive ones) are the time it takes to "investigate" and find the source. Just as the Bombay Blast perpetrators who are now in TSP had evaded the ICI, we cannot afford to take any chances or slipthroughs..

Vick · Post by **Vick** » 10 Jun 2002 23:23

The Bush admin nor the US govt is under any illusion that TSP is the best thing since sliced bread. But they and Indians realize that TSP is needed right now as a base of operations. The US has enough money and power to squeeze Mush into obedience. Nothing I have read (except for official USG stuff, get to that later) since nine-one-one can lead anyone to believe that Mush is cooperating with the US, he is not. He is obeying the US, there's a huge difference. The US wants Must to stick around because he obeys well and the US knows his pressure points. The US on the other hand does not know the pressure points of any potential follow ons or if they will be too bearded to obey the US.

Getting back to why the USG effuses praise on Mush is partly to massage the Paki ego and also to keep Mush politically stable.

Jash · Post by **Jash** » 10 Jun 2002 23:28

shashi Uncle and Fukis are playing Russian Poker knowing each others game well, Fukis having upper hand now so Uncle is laying low praising Fukis, but once Uncle gets better hand, believe me they will up the ante so much that Fukis will loose all the chips and cry "UNCLE"(off course other players like civilized world will and must support Uncle here and FUNDOO countries that is all member of OIC will support Fukis.)
Things will Polarised, One side Civilized world minus Chinese and other side OIC thats Islamic world, still not clear which side Chinese will cast their dies.

Umrao · Post by **Umrao** » 10 Jun 2002 23:34

Originally posted by Sunder:

Originally posted by John Umrao:
GOI and Babus are the smartest you can run into.
That's some reassurance and it is good to know.. I only hope we can amend our nuclear doctrine to include that the detonation of a Dirty bomb on our soil will also be treated as a nuclear agression, and that the retaliation will be the same as it would be in any other Nuclear strike from our adversaries.

The only problem with reactive strategies (rather than proactive ones) are the time it takes to "investigate" and find the source. Just as the Bombay Blast perpetrators who are now in TSP had evaded the ICI, we cannot afford to take any chances or slipthroughs..[/QB]

One of the reasons why Uncle is restraining GOI is that he knows that such crude devices are already in India in place, which Mushy can activate by a phone call and just say "I have miles to go before I sleep". ( a la the movie Telefon)

Also Mushy recently said that If India attacks Pakistan there will be clouds of storm that would engulf India (vide: The Hindu report).

Also this psy ops scenerios of casualities (in India) by Uncle is based on information that Pakis have indeed some operatives in India with dirty (bomb)tricks.

A question then comes up why not GOAT go after Pakis and get rid of these dirty tricks of ISI.

1) The answer is why should they. Its India , not a problem (for them).

2) If they did its defacto admission that its under their watch and blessings that Pakis got Nukes. (like Mushy now pledging no More CBT, implying there was once!! )

But GOI is conditioned to "A war of thousand threats", and "A thousand and one " peace jestures.

India will not wage a war It may atmost join a battle.

member_4339 · Post by **member_4339** » 10 Jun 2002 23:50

One of the reasons why Uncle is restraining GOI is that he knows that such crude devices are already in India in place, which Mushy can activate by a phone call and just say "I have miles to go before I sleep". ( a la the movie Telefon)

Also Mushy recently said that If India attacks Pakistan there will be clouds of storm that would engulf India (vide: The Hindu report).

Also this psy ops scenerios of casualities (in India) by Uncle is based on information that Pakis have indeed some operatives in India with dirty (bomb)tricks.
[/QB]

What is the source of this information?

Umrao · Post by **Umrao** » 10 Jun 2002 23:52

sashi>> dont you read news papers. There was report how India army would be sabotaged by Paki operatives etc given to GOI by uncle. The army was then asked to double check every thing.

Most of what I post are my inside sourcess OK?

P Babu · Post by **P Babu** » 10 Jun 2002 23:58

is it not possible to detect such dirty bombs thru says radiation detector radars? Like 4 or 5 radars to cover mumbai.. and so on?

Instead of purchasing billions of dollars worth equipment, we should leave it our scientist to figure out the best equipment..more self reliance..

jarugn · Post by **jarugn** » 11 Jun 2002 00:03

Plot hatched in Pakistan

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/chicagosuspect020610.html

Sources said the suspect was one of two people involved in the alleged plot. The second one has been arrested in Pakistan.

The alleged plot was not believed to have passed the early planning stages.

sandy · Post by **sandy** » 11 Jun 2002 00:08

I was listening the State Department's briefing by Ari Fleshier. I was kind of surprised to see how he was trying to avoid any direct involvment of Musahraff Govt. He said many such opratives were hired by the (PHANTOM...) AL_QUEIDA and they were getting trained since BEFORE 9/11, and, he further added since 9/11 Mushtraff was helping US quite impressively.- Here you go again everything goes to Pahntom Al-Queda.How long they play this game to save Mushy's AS**?

bikram

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Jun 2002 00:12

I think it is a pressure tactic for the Amry of Islam in TSP before Rumsfeld reaches Pak.

Nikhil Shah · Post by **Nikhil Shah** » 11 Jun 2002 00:23

Why announce it now? This chap has been in custody for a month now. Who is this message for? American's to pass for bill for Homeland Security? Or is it that now US has a proper control over the Islamic bombs and bomb makers and so it is safe to reveal this arrest should it have triggered someone to go under ground or initiate another terrorist attack somewhere else. Although the later one sounds a little more far fetched to me.

Umrao · Post by **Umrao** » 11 Jun 2002 00:24

I see one bright spot in a very oblique way,

The Greatest and the largest democracies are being taken for a ride by Mushy and equally black mailed.

This whole GOAT family is just like the Gang in the movie "McKenna's Gold, each gang member has his own agenda. ( I posted this analogy
when GOAT thread started in Nov 2001)

Prateek · Post by **Prateek** » 11 Jun 2002 00:26

Terrorist states face deadly end: US

"The global war on terrorism began in Afghanistan to be sure, but it will not end there," Rumsfeld told US troops at Camp Doha on the outskirts of Kuwait City.

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=11392

Wish, he should have names it also as in Pakistan..

Yash · Post by **Yash** » 11 Jun 2002 00:29

Originally posted by Nikhil Shah:
Why announce it now? This chap has been in custody for a month now.

The official reason for announcing this now is they need to meet a legal deadline. Probably true and it probably also meets US's agenda of making India panic that such devices may be deployed in India ie, India should not readily call Pak's nuclear bluff.