Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 21 Jun 2009 09:45

So it was a terrorist attack on french citizens, because France didn't pay commission to some of the defence officials of pakistan. so, pakistani govt == terrorists then?

arun · Post by **arun** » 21 Jun 2009 10:25

X Posted.

The Minority Islamic sects must be rueing the day their forefathers fell for the rhetoric of Pakistan being a safe haven for Muslims:

Taliban delivers death threats to non-Muslims

Taliban militants are threatening Christians, Sikhs, and Muslim minoritiy sects with death and onerous headtaxes should they not convert to their violent version of Islam.

Saturday, June 20, 2009
By Aftab Mughal

………………. On May 27, Taliban sent a letter to an Imambargah (Shias’ religious place) at Jafferia Colony in Lahore. The letter was reproduced by an English-language daily. It threatens an attack on the place of worship unless Shias stop ‘anti-Islamic’ activities. It insists the Shias are in fact ‘non-Muslims’. It ordered them to leave Pakistan, convert or face violent consequences. The hardliner Muslims are against the Shia sect and have been killing them indiscriminately in various part of the country, especially in Dera Imael Khan and the Kurram Agency, the lone tribal areas where Shias formed a sizeable chunk of the population. Shias are around 20 per cent of the country.

Ismaili Muslims (another Shia Muslim sect) are also facing threats by the Taliban. According to a report published in the Pakistani media on June 16, the Taliban threatened the Ismaili community that if they will not shut down their offices in Gilgat, Chatral and Islamabd they would be bombed.

Aftab Mughal edits the Minorities Concern Report in Pakistan.

Spero

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Jun 2009 11:10

sum wrote:
This week, Paris-based antiterrorist investigative magistrates informed families of the 11 French victims that they were looking into whether the attack happened because France allegedly reneged on a pledge to pay alleged commissions related to the lucrative submarine-building contract, according to Olivier Morice, a lawyer for the families. The new line of inquiry was also confirmed by people close to the probe.
Just when you think you have seen it all, the Pakis spring new surprises...

Wish that at least these kind of things force the arms dealers from staying away from Pak.

Let's not forget the unsurprising reaction of the French. Afraid that they would lose the business, they would have paid the ransom and the work has continued, giving Pakistan the submarines and France the money. Those 11 French dead and their relatives don't matter in a multibillion Euro deal to arm Pakistan with submarines.

The West is a liability for India and we need to set the world in order in due course.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 21 Jun 2009 11:21

Pakistan army: More than 50 Taliban killed, dozens of troops kidnapped, in battle near capital
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/world ... 83447.html
06/20/09 9:20 PM EDT
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After warplanes struck late Tuesday, attack helicopters engaged "miscreants" and killed more than 50, Abbas told reporters in Rawalpindi, south of Islamabad.

Rather than fleeing, militants seized three police stations in the north of Buner on Tuesday and kidnapped 70 police and paramilitary troops, he said. Eighteen of the troops were "recovered" Wednesday, he said, giving few other details.
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Mohammad Ayub, a tribesman living nearby, said a drone was flying in the area just before the evening prayers. Soon after the strike, Taliban militants surrounded the scene, he said.

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Witnesses told of bodies left lying in the fields because residents were too scared to move them, the rights groups said. At least five civilians died, it said.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 21 Jun 2009 11:40

Troops are mostly kidnapped whereas Taliban are almost always killed and all that without any independent confirmation.

Hardly takes much reading between the lines to uncover the lid off these ops.

Malayappan · Post by **Malayappan** » 21 Jun 2009 12:20

Visa applications by Pakistanis lacked credibility: Report
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Fea ... 682970.cms

From the link

More than one in three successful visa applications by Pakistanis "lacked credibility" and potential terrorists might make use of the
loopholes, a secret internal report has indicated.

"...it raises the question, has the government left a gaping loophole in our security".

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 21 Jun 2009 13:06

Malayappan wrote:
More than one in three successful visa applications by Pakistanis "lacked credibility" and potential terrorists might make use of the
loopholes, a (Not So )secret internal report has indicated.

Is it a deliberate leak to force the babudom to plug the leaks?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 21 Jun 2009 18:58

Get out, or else!
Minister saheb has given an ultimatum to the tellibunnies (again!).

Rehman warns Taliban to ‘get out’ of Pakistan

ISLAMABAD: Advisor to Prime Minister Rehman Malik has said Taliban are neither for Islam nor they are Pakistanis and warned them to ‘get out’ of the country as ‘Pakistan does not want you(any more)’.

He is a true son-of-the-soil. Brave mard.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 21 Jun 2009 19:01

Kiyani in Russia
What's going on here? Is Russia upping the ante? It will be worth watching this development.

Kayani leaves for Russia

LAHORE: Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) said the Chief of Army Staff (COAS), General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani left today for Russia on one day official visit. During his visit, COAS is scheduled to meet the senior civil and military leadership of Russia.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 21 Jun 2009 19:09

Badtamizi
Downright insulting!!

Singh’s message to Zardari was insulting, says former Indian diplomat

ISLAMABAD: The Indian government has admitted for the first time that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s brusque message to President Asif Ali Zardari, in Yekaterinburg, Russia, on the sidelines of the SCO conference, before the media was deliberate, aimed at convincing Pakistan that it must meet the two conditions — punish the perpetrators of 26/11, and dismantle the terror infrastructure — before India resumes the composite dialogue.

“Why meet and behave in a manner bound to be seen as insulting?” former diplomat Naresh Chandra told Outlook. Chandra believes Manmohan’s tough message had a “salutary” effect on Zardari.

Manmohan’s churlish behaviour is perceived by many both in Pakistan and India as typical of a regional bully keen to downsize a unanimously elected president of Pakistan.

Interestingly they tried to embarrass a Pakistani leader who has recently stuck his head out for improving relations with India and even admitting that Pakistan fears no threat from India.

Mohammad Malick, editor, The News, thinks Manmohan’s slight was a revenge for Agra, where then president Pervez Musharraf scored a public relations victory over his counterpart, Atal Behari Vajpayee. “What Manmohan did is certainly something new from the Indian leadership and downright ‘badtamizi’. Of course, the show was for the domestic Indian audience and an attempt to put pressure on us as the rest of the world is doing,” Malick told Outlook.

Malick attributes the PM’s ‘improper behaviour’ to India emulating the US in the conduct of its diplomatic relations. As he explains, “The Indians appear to have taken a leaf out of Washington’s book, where you first embarrass Zardari and then take him behind closed doors and read the riot act to him. Zardari is no statesman and hardly prepared for a one-on-one meeting with the region’s well-groomed prime minister.”

Ouch, that hurts!

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 21 Jun 2009 20:05

anupmisra wrote:Get out, or else!
Minister saheb has given an ultimatum to the tellibunnies (again!).

Rehman warns Taliban to ‘get out’ of Pakistan

ISLAMABAD: Advisor to Prime Minister Rehman Malik has said Taliban are neither for Islam nor they are Pakistanis and warned them to ‘get out’ of the country as ‘Pakistan does not want you(any more)’.

He is a true son-of-the-soil. Brave mard.

Now lets see who gets out, he or the talibs

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 21 Jun 2009 20:12

anupmisra wrote:Badtamizi
Downright insulting!!
Ouch, that hurts!

Diplomacy is not conducted based on how nice a person is. It is conducted based on who or what he represents.

Zardari is the president of Pakistan. Pakistan sent killers across the border and killed many Indian citizens. A pakistani court set the conspirators free. Zardari himself went on Larry King show (among other venues) 6 months back and declared "Kasab is not a Pakistani".

Ooooh we are sorry ! did we hurt his feelings by pointing out that terrorism from his country should stop ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jun 2009 20:23

Its presumptous of Naresh Chandra despite whatever position he held in past to criticise MMS for he gives the Pakis a sense of division.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 21 Jun 2009 20:41

It is okay for elements of the establishment to criticize, that one's country's position regarding some other country to too soft, but criticizing it to be too hard-line shows lack of maturity, especially in case where the other country is a sponsor of terrorism in one's own land, in which case it becomes equivalent to "chullu bhar pani men doob mar".

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 21 Jun 2009 22:56

^^
Naresh Chandra has only given a detached summation of the meeting. This is all that he has been quoted as having said as per the article

“Why meet and behave in a manner bound to be seen as insulting?” former diplomat Naresh Chandra told Outlook, adding, “Not talking to Pakistan can’t be an option. India can’t be seen as going into a great sulk.” Chandra believes Manmohan’s tough message had a “salutary” effect on Zardari, who must provide India comfort on the terror issue.

The rest of the article, including the choice adjectives, is of the publication itself, and more specifically that of Mohammed Mullick. It only goes to prove that not just Zardari, but the entire establishment in Pakistan are quite taken aback by the sudden and unexpected aggression from MMS.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 21 Jun 2009 23:55

anupmisra wrote:Kiyani in Russia
What's going on here? Is Russia upping the ante? It will be worth watching this development.

Nothing out of the blue. Both could be playing to the crowd. Besides things are different than say 10-20 years ago. IF India wants to be on her own we should expect such behavior.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 22 Jun 2009 00:22

ISLAMABAD: Advisor to Prime Minister Rehman Malik has said Taliban are neither for Islam nor they are Pakistanis and warned them to ‘get out’ of the country as ‘Pakistan does not want you(any more)’.

He is right, Talibunnies are not Pakistanis, they are Pashtunistanis. It's about time they got their independent Pashtunistan!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 22 Jun 2009 00:25

Can Pakistan take on the Lashkar-e-Taiba

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 22 Jun 2009 00:57

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... chill.html
By David Rose In Pakistan
Last updated at 10:17 PM on 20th June 2009
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Saraj Uddin, 57, points to his lashkar's makeshift fortifications: a circle of rocks on a hilltop above the village erupting with mortar and machine gunfire from weapons supplied by the army.

This, Uddin says, triggered the lashkar's action: 'We want to finish these Taliban. They are against humanity. They used to control five of our villages and they have money. When we get some work, we are paid $2 a day. The miscreants are paying people $8 or $10 to fight for them.'
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At Paloosa, the boys have made toy rocket launchers from sticks and plastic bottles, and they pass the time enacting 'battles' between the army and the Taliban. Their sympathies lie with the insurgents. 'We want to crush the army,' says Khysta Rehman, ten. 'I really miss my home, and I blame the government for making me leave it.'

Also near Charsadda is a camp for refugees from Swat, established a fortnight ago in the grounds of a sugar mill. Here conditions are already desperate.

Families crowd into flimsy, ancient tents, sleeping on thin mats. They cannot cook at all, and are forced to subsist on two meals of rice and dahl a day, doled out at a communal kitchen. Many are well educated, and used to a comfortable standard of living.

'A buffalo costs 100,000 rupees

[£800],' says one man. 'I had ten. Where will be my compensation?'
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At Katlang, at the base of the mountains, I meet Najma Minhaj, 25, who lost eight relatives to a stray F16 missile that hit their house near a Swat village mosque.

'We thought maybe the Taliban were at the mosque,' she says, her expression blank with grief. 'The youngest was my cousin, Ma'az. He was four. The Taliban let us have a funeral but they buried them together in the same hole. We left a huge, lovely home with all the facilities one needs for a comfortable life. We haven't even got pillows here.'
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putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 22 Jun 2009 01:04

kancha wrote:^^
Naresh Chandra has only given a detached summation of the meeting. This is all that he has been quoted as having said as per the article

“Why meet and behave in a manner bound to be seen as insulting?” former diplomat Naresh Chandra told Outlook, adding, “Not talking to Pakistan can’t be an option. India can’t be seen as going into a great sulk.” Chandra believes Manmohan’s tough message had a “salutary” effect on Zardari, who must provide India comfort on the terror issue.
The rest of the article, including the choice adjectives, is of the publication itself, and more specifically that of Mohammed Mullick. It only goes to prove that not just Zardari, but the entire establishment in Pakistan are quite taken aback by the sudden and unexpected aggression from MMS.

It is not the first time that the pakis are twisting the news headline to reflect their anal-ysis and pass it off as fact!

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 22 Jun 2009 03:24

Dirty deals?

The possibility that the 2002 killing of 11 French engineers, who died alongside three Pakistanis when a car packed with explosives was rammed into their minibus in Karachi, may have been carried out to avenge a failure by Paris to pay commissions to Pakistan on a deal involving submarine sales is shocking. The act of terrorism, close to a five-star hotel, had till now been blamed on extremist militants. An ATC court in 2003 had indeed found two men linked to a 'jihadi' group responsible, although they have since been acquitted by the Sindh High Court due to a lack of proof.

French investigators and the relatives of the victims seem confident about the dirty deals theory. They claim to have compiled some evidence that suggests that the attack was carried out to punish the French for stopping commission payments. These ended in 1995, after French President Jacques Chirac assumed office. The recipient of the payments on the Pakistan end of the line is stated to have been a certain Asif Ali Zardari, at the time a minister in his wife's second government. Rogue elements in the intelligence agencies are thought to have been involved in the attack, deliberately disguising it to look like the doing of militants.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 22 Jun 2009 04:14

What Bakwaas!
Musharraf was the Dictator from 12th October 1999 onwards, and President of Pakistan from 2001. How does poor old Zardari get the blame for this? It is possible, that Zardari got some commissions initially when the deal was signed, then Nawaz Sharif took over, but the bombing was probably due to the payments to Musharraf and the Fauji Coitre being stopped by Chirac (If the story is indeed true)

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 22 Jun 2009 04:40

India edgy as Pak turns blind eye to JuD’s new avatar

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The latest—Jamaat ud Dawa’s new front Falah-i-Insaniyat has opened an account where money is flowing in, in the name of relief to refugees from Swat and the North-West; just-released JuD chief Hafiz Saeed met Hizbul Mujahideen leader Syed Sallahuddin on June 16 and renewed the pledge to combat for Kashmir; and the hearing against Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi had its second adjournment today until July 4 because a judge has not been appointed to hear the case for nearly a month.

Falah-i-Insaniyat, now widely regarded as the charitable organisation used as a front by the JuD, has opened an account in the Bank of Punjab, Lahore, with the account number 2892-1 and the branch code is 048. Funds in the name of relief work for “Swat displaced persons” is being stashed away into this account. This is quite similar to the pattern when Lashkar-e-Toiba was banned after the attack on Parliament.

At that time JuD emerged as the front, which later on received funds for relief in large amounts under the garb of a charitable organisation doing relief work for those affected by the devastating earthquake in Kashmir. Then, too, it came to light later that the LeT accounts, which were frozen because of the ban, had very nominal amounts in them, indicating large-scale withdrawal before the ban took effect.

This time Pakistan has still not furnished details of the funds it recovered after freezing JuD’s accounts. Indian agencies suspect that Falah-i-Insaniyat accounts will hold the key to how much funds were indeed transferred from JuD accounts. This is going to be raised with Pakistan when Foreign Secretary Shivshankar Menon meets his counterpart. Dates, however, have still not been finalised though the talks have to be held before the NAM summit in mid-July.

Falah-i-Insaniyat came to notice some three to four months ago after several JuD workers were spotted working under its banner. What is even more worrying for India is that the outfit is working in close coordination with the Pakistan Army, which is keeping a very close watch on Swat displaced persons for security reasons and its campaign in the North-West Pakistan. Indian agencies have also confirmed that JuD cadres are being given access to the ammunition captured by the Pakistan Army in its Swat operations.

If this rebuilding of the nexus is not alarming enough, Hafiz Mohammed Saeed is back to building solidarity among anti-India jihadi leaders. His June 16 meeting with Hizbul Mujahideen head Syed Salahuddin, who is also chairman of the Muttahida Jehad Council (MJC)—a conglomerate of jihadi groups waging terror in Kashmir—was significant. It was attended by other office bearers of the MJC like Muhammad Usman and Sheikh Jamil-ur-Rehman besides JuD leaders like Maulana Amir Hamza, Yahya Mujahid and Maulana Husnain Siddiqui. They are said to have also discussed Indian consulates in Afghanistan, indicating them as possible targets.

Delivering his first sermon on June 5, the first Friday prayers he attended after his release, Saeed said the US, Israel and India were keen to curb Pakistan’s nuclear programme. “Peace would easily be established in the world if the US and its allies stopped spilling Muslim blood and pulled out of Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Kashmir and FATA,” he said.

Further, he claimed that JuD would continue its mission of jihad regardless of what the conditions are. “Islam is our religion, jihad is our mission and defence of Pakistan is our duty,” he said. Head of Jamiat-e-Islami Syed Munnawar Hassan also called on Saeed a day before his sermon.
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pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 22 Jun 2009 05:01

view: Mystery of Indian scientist’s death —Haleema Saadia
Rakshaks eat your hearts out.....

Stories surrounding the nuclear scientist’s suicide seem quite dubious. Mental health professionals generally agree that anyone contemplating suicide desires a swift death. Why would Mahalingam choose torturous and slow death? Did somebody throw him in the river?

The dead body of an Indian nuclear scientist Lokanathan Mahalingam was found six days after he mysteriously went missing. According to the police he committed suicide by jumping into the Kali River in Kaiga township in Karwar, Karnataka.

The stories surrounding the nuclear scientist’s suicide seem quite dubious. Mental health professionals generally agree that anyone contemplating suicide desires a swift death. Why would Mahalingam choose torturous and slow death? Did somebody throw him in the river? Was he injured or murdered before his body was thrown into the flooded Kali River?

Whether Mahalingam was thrown into the river or he willingly offered his life to the powerful currents is going to remain a mystery since his remains have been cremated. A DNA test was performed to ascertain the identity of the dead body because his family members feared that the authorities might have handed over the dead body of someone else. They expected foul play which is why they demanded DNA testing.

But that also raises the question: why was he cremated in such a hurry even before the results of the DNA test and the post-mortem report? The presence or absence of air in his lungs, any signs of torture on his body and the level of decomposition could have pointed out to the circumstances in which he met his final end.

It is also intriguing that shortly after his body was found by the naval divers, the police announced its verdict that the scientist had committed suicide. The conclusion was premature since Mahalingam left no suicide note, another normal practice with those planning to commit suicide. How could the police state with certainty if the death was suicide?

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Now here comes the ADVICE

The US had imposed sanctions on two former chiefs Dr YSR. Prasad and Dr C Surendar of Nuclear Power Corporation of India in 2004. The United States, which has cut a nuclear deal with India, should stress upon India to clean up its act and put in place stringent safety and security measures as well as develop a reliable PRP. India claims to be a responsible nuclear power but that responsibility should be evident in its practices as well.

Haleema Saadia is a research fellow at SASSI {really? }, Islamabad. She can be reached at saadia.haleema@gmail.com

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 22 Jun 2009 05:16

pgbhat wrote:Haleema Saadia is a research fellow at SASSI {really? }, Islamabad. She can be reached at saadia.haleema@gmail.com

It's sadia {rotten} Haleema

asprinzl · Post by **asprinzl** » 22 Jun 2009 07:49

deleted

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 22 Jun 2009 07:49

AoA
Al-Qaida says would use Pakistani nuclear weapons

"God willing, the nuclear weapons will not fall into the hands of the Americans and the mujahideen would take them and use them against the Americans," Mustafa Abu al-Yazid, the leader of al-Qaida's in Afghanistan, said in an interview with Al Jazeera television.

"We expect that the Pakistani army would be defeated (in Swat) ... and that would be its end everywhere, God willing."

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 22 Jun 2009 08:15

Al-Qaida says would use Pakistani nuclear weapons
"God willing, the nuclear weapons will not fall into the hands of the Americans and the mujahideen would take them and use them against the Americans," Mustafa Abu al-Yazid, the leader of al-Qaida's in Afghanistan, said in an interview with Al Jazeera television.

Much to their surprise, the Pakis have discovred that this trick of exhorting money from Amirkhan and company works, now they are out to milk it to the hilt!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Jun 2009 08:46

Gerard wrote:Can Pakistan take on the Lashkar-e-Taiba

Arindam wrote:India edgy as Pak turns blind eye to JuD’s new avatar

These articles remind me of a business lesson taught to me by an ex IIMB friend.

He said that the value of any item can be arrived at by two questions:

What's it worth to you? (What is the cost to you?)
What's it worth to me? (What s the cost to me?)

The example he used was that of me with a bottle of water for sale in the desert, versus me with same bottle in an area with lots of water.

If you look at the "value" of LeT and its various avatars from the angle of "What's is the cost to India?" and what the cost is to Pakistan, it is possible to see how much the scale is tilted by the LeT and for whom.

1) For India the LeT has imposed a cost that India has (for whatever reason) considered "not high enough" to start war. On the other hand Pakistani attacks in 1947, 1965, 1971 and 1999 were considered high enough to fight a conventional war. Perhaps the threat of loss of territory is considered a higher cost than loss of a few (hundred) lives.

2) For Pakistan, the cost of using military forces for war has gradually been found to be high. War was initiated with relative ease when India was thought to be weak, but each time the cost was high in relation to benefit. The Pakistani military has twice 1965 and 1999) tried to hide its involvement at the outset - pretending that an armed civilian militia is undertaking a spontaneous action, but each time the gains fro Pakistan have been modest and costs high.

It is clear to Pakistan that having an armed Islamic militia to attack India offers a low cost method of attacking India. This much is well known to everyone. But what we never talk about is whether, at times of "relative peace" vis a vis India, it the LeT an asset or a burden to Pakistan? Does the LeT have value to Pakistan other than as a low cost fighting arm against India?

I am not sure that the Pakistan Army sees the LeT as a civilian fighting arm that can be retained in case of Indian attack as suggested in one of the Reuters analysis above.

But giving up the LeT, seen as a "force multiplier" in the event of an invasion by India -- rather like citizens trained in civil defence -- would be another step altogether.

The LeT can hardly be expected to be any more of an obstacle to the Indian armed forces than the Pakistani army. Furthermore Pakistan's nuclear weapons are always held up as the ultimate deterrent - and if that is the case, where is the utility of the LeT as an "internal resistance force" against Indian invasion? Besides - if it is a civilian defence force, why should Pakistan use a "civilian defence force" for offence against India? So clearly that is a strawman.

IMO the LeT has value to Pakistan is two ways:
1) As cannon fodder imposing some cost on India
2) I believe that the LeT is a "Patriotic Pakistani" organization that is utilized to unify Pakistan on the lines of a fighting force for Islam. Islam itself calls for a fighting force. The Pakistani army used to see itself that way - but the punishment it has received in wars and the threat to the Pakistani state itself after each war has made them shy away from that role. But you cannot retain Islamic fervor and unity without having an army to channel the fears that keep Islam (and Pakistan) under constant threat. So the LeT comes in useful to the Paki army as a substitute organization that does all the Islamic protection work while taking the heat off the Pakistani state.

Operation "unzip our fly and wave" Parakram proved only one thing. It showed that under pressure, the Pakistani state will admit that it has a connection with the LeT and other terrorist organizations and will make promises to change its way. As the post 26/11 events have shown you don't even need an operation "unzip fly" like Parakram to force an admission from the Paki state about their relationship with jihadis. It should be clear as crystal that the jihadi groups are an extension of the Pakistani army/state.

How long will it take for the Indian establishment to admit that? Is it stupidity or fear that keeps the Indian establishment from completing the simple sum 2+2=??

The way to impose a cost on Pakistan is to attack Pakistan after the next terrorist atrocity.

Should Pakistan be militarily attacked even before another repeat atrocity such as Kaluchak, Mumbai or the Parliament attack? IMO NO! The only way to make Pakistan see that we blame terrorism on the Pakistani state is to attack soon after a terrorist attack. Not 9, 20, or 50 months later.

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 22 Jun 2009 09:40

India to issue arrest warrants against Pak-based suspects

New Delhi—Indian authorities will ask the special court hearing the Mumbai attacks case to issue non- bailable arrest warrants against 35 suspects, including Pakistan- based Jammat-ud-Duwa (JuD) chief Mohammed Hafeez Saeed, a senior Indian Home Ministry official said Sunday.

“In the coming week, the Indian prosecutors would appeal to the special court to issue the warrants against the accused. They already have obtained the addresses of the accused which they will provide. Once the warrants are issued, Indian authorities will try to arrest them.

They may also seek help from Interpol as many of the accused, including the alleged masterming Saeed, are in Pakistan,” the official said, on condition of anonymity.

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 22 Jun 2009 09:45

Pakistan: A superpower by 2050

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 22 Jun 2009 09:48

shiv wrote:The way to impose a cost on Pakistan is to attack Pakistan after the next terrorist atrocity.

Should Pakistan be militarily attacked even before another repeat atrocity such as Kaluchak, Mumbai or the Parliament attack? IMO NO! The only way to make Pakistan see that we blame terrorism on the Pakistani state is to attack soon after a terrorist attack. Not 9, 20, or 50 months later.

got you and this was what op parakram was about, which due to the lead time for mobilization failed.

now let us see the opposite. What is the cost benefit ratio for going to war for us? Remember the it czars rambling in parliament during op parakram and it was about cost benefit to the czars personally.

As long as we think killing 100s is just a pin prick, we are going to see the same routine. 6 months have already passed since the last attack. Since the chai biskuit sessions are about to start soon, I see the resumption of attacks somewhere before aug-sep. Happy chai biskuit.

Edit: Oops didnt notice your new thread

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 22 Jun 2009 10:01

shynee wrote:Pakistan: A superpower by 2050

No laughing matter this. Pakistan will have more people than the USA in 2050. All they have to do is find a way to transfer some of USA's wealth to their country. All indications so far are that USA is willing to go along.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 22 Jun 2009 10:11

US owes Pakistan $1bn for NATO fuel supply: Haroon (Daily Times)

LAHORE/KARACHI: The United States owes Pakistan $1 billion for fuel supplies to the NATO forces in Afghanistan, Pakistan’s Permanent Representative to the United Nations Abdullah Hussain Haroon said on Saturday. According to a private TV channel, the envoy told reporters that out of the $10 billion given to Pakistan by Washington, $6 billion had been spent on fighting terrorism.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Jun 2009 10:31

ravi_ku wrote:
shiv wrote:The way to impose a cost on Pakistan is to attack Pakistan after the next terrorist atrocity.

Should Pakistan be militarily attacked even before another repeat atrocity such as Kaluchak, Mumbai or the Parliament attack? IMO NO! The only way to make Pakistan see that we blame terrorism on the Pakistani state is to attack soon after a terrorist attack. Not 9, 20, or 50 months later.
got you and this was what op parakram was about, which due to the lead time for mobilization failed.

now let us see the opposite. What is the cost benefit ratio for going to war for us? Remember the it czars rambling in parliament during op parakram and it was about cost benefit to the czars personally.

As long as we think killing 100s is just a pin prick, we are going to see the same routine. 6 months have already passed since the last attack. Since the chai biskuit sessions are about to start soon, I see the resumption of attacks somewhere before aug-sep. Happy chai biskuit.

Edit: Oops didnt notice your new thread

my reply here
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 80#p688880

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 22 Jun 2009 10:34

The amount owed to them is separate from what they can beg borrow steal. This is their inalienable right - the US not paying this is going to be built up as another 'betrayal' by the US.

R Vaidya · Post by **R Vaidya** » 22 Jun 2009 10:50

Dealing with Declining Empires

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/prin ... jiEhUwlVY=

The lost horizon of the emperors

By R Vaidyanathan
21 Jun 2009 11:27:00 PM IST

AT every seminar on financial matters these days, there’s one question that lingers — even during the coffee breaks: will the economy recover, and when? And, it isn’t about the Indian economy but that of the US. I reiterate it will take at least 40 quarters — that’s a decade — for America to recover. I tell this, and am shunned — like a swine flu patient.
I still maintain the US is going the banana republic way what with a national debt of more than $10 trillion, which is more than 80 per cent of its national income. Not only that the budget deficit is skyrocketing; it’s expected to reach more than 10 per cent soon. Last year, the US financial regulatory agencies came up with plans of financial support worth $6.8 trillion — comprising temporary loans and liability and asset guarantees. And by the third end of the first quarter of 2009, the financial support programmes reached $13.9 trillion.
The federal deficit as percentage of GDP is now expected to reach more than 10 per cent. There will be furious printing of more treasury bills and notes. The expected inflation is going to rip apart the society and the largest selling item in the last quarter was handguns and rifles. Already intriguing reports have come about attempt to smuggle more than $134 billion in treasury bonds by two Japanese citizens through the Italian border into Switzerland. It could be a ploy by CIA or really a daredevil act by some foreign government to destabilise the global financial system. I am waiting for the creditrating agencies like S&P to downgrade the US economy like other developing countries and prove their independence from the sole superpower. High hopes. Angus Maddison in his pioneering work for OECD on the global GDP share for the last 2,000 years has brought out an interesting fact pertaining to India and China. As early as the 1820s, China (33%) along with India (16%) and other Asian countries had a share of more than 55 per cent in the global GDP. By the late 20th century, it has declined to 29 per cent. The China percentage slid to 12, India’s to 5.
In the next 20 years, India should plan to have a share of at least 30 per cent of the global GDP. These imply that India should be racing ahead. If India grows at 8 to 9 per cent in the coming decade, then it can become the world’s third or fourth superpower.
But it also implies that, parallely, the West should decline in terms of their importance in the share of global GDP and world affairs.
Since the total is 100 per cent, any increased share for India and China would automatically reduce that of the other two.
Unlike the Great Depression of the 1920s, the current crisis for the West is not just an economic crisis. It has a dimension of demography and conflict (ongoing war with radical Islam) to it. Demographic, because Europe is slowly fading away from the global map. It used to have more than 20 per cent of the global population during the First World War, and now has less than 11 per cent. What’s more, it’s expected to shrink to three per cent in as many decades.
The reproductive rate in many European countries is less than 1.5, whereas the stable one is 2.1. In the case of US, the crisis is more severe due to its declining savings rate and a long-term tendency to nationalise families and privatise government.
Social security and Medicare system in US is classic case of nationalising families.
Such a declining Empire is dangerous to deal with. To start with, it does not want to accept the fact that it is a declining Empire.
Plus, it wants to retain its sole power status when it realises that its writ does not any more hold good. It tries to bully India.
Whenever a US official visits India, the beards in J&K become more active. Remember Robin Raphael of the nineties vintage who propped up the Hurriyat Conference? India recalls with anger the role Robin Raphael played during the Presidency of Bill Clinton in encouraging the formation of Hurriyat Conference, the umbrella organisation of moderate terrorists and terrorised moderates. Her only name to fame was she studied together with Clinton. When Hillary comes to India, the level of violence in J&K will increase. I wish someone in foreign office in India plots the correlation between visits of US officials and mob frenzy in the downtown Srinagar.
The declining empire realises that its elbowroom is becoming lesser and lesser with the Pakistan army that owns and controls a country. Islamabad always has a peculiar way of coming to discussion on any issue.
They keep a gun on their own head and argue with others. That is, they always threaten others with catastrophe if money is not given to them. This is the most sophisticated begging anywhere you can see in international relations. Bribing them won’t stop the plotters against the “US Satan”.
The next thing the declining empire does is to cringe and appease. The speech by Obama in Cairo is of that variety. He ascribed every human scientific endeavor to Islamic civilisation. Forget the Hindus who invented zero, forget Ptolemy and forget Copernicus. Just rewrite history. The third thing a declining power does is to pressure others to sacrifice on its behalf to buy peace with bullies. It cannot deal with radical Islam and if the ISI (that is what is critical — not the ten per cent Zardari) needs to be appeased with a piece of J&K, then the US will try to arm-twist India.
Herein comes our ability to understand declining powers.
We must internalise that US is a declining power and our bureaucrats must chant it hundred eight times on a daily basis. We should also remember that USA is very uncomfortable in dealing with democracies.
It’s natural ally is always a dictatorship since they can be “use and throw” friendships.
Dealing with democracies is messy since they talk about a domestic constituency and behave similar to USA. A mirror image of itself is unacceptable to “sole super power”. As India continues to grow at more than 8 per cent — and simply due to the power of compounding emerges as a major power — the desperation of the declining power will be more since our terrorist neighbour who has a the largest begging bowl and highest per-capita AK-47s will blackmail the declining power to appease him to keep peace.
What is in Indian interest is the continuation of civil war in Pakistan for, say, another ten to twenty years — ambient conflict — sort of auto-cannibalism which will be a dynamic disequilibria — situation.
Other option is to have at least three or so states created out of that entity. The concept of stable Pakistan is passé and a mirage and that should be unequivocally communicated to the declining empire.
Remember the last century. The declining British Empire — now it is the sick child of Europe but still with a grand illusion of influencing Indian sub-continent — created havoc by partitioning the land. The current declining empire may be tempted to do something rash to protect itself. And therein lays the challenge for our political leadership and mandarins. Dealing with a declining empire is more difficult than dealing with a stable empire.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Jun 2009 10:59

Gerard wrote:Can Pakistan take on the Lashkar-e-Taiba

Since we are left with bean counting alone in the absence of any significant response to TSP terror, I find the above article interesting:

1) Everybody now acknowledges that TSP's bold-faced lie: "Only moral & diploamtic support", that even the Myra McDonalds used to regurgitate as gospel truth. And the gall of TSP, namely, they will undo LeT only when they get "peace", meaning India hand over Kashmir on a silver platter. We knew this all along.

2) Myra MCDonald shamelessly acknowledges that had LeT stuck to India alone, it would not have drawn the ire of the west. In other words, LeT attacking westerners instead of Indians alone, as they did in Mumbai, morphed them from "good terrorists" to "bad terrorists".

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 22 Jun 2009 11:08

In other words, LeT attacking westerners instead of Indians alone, as they did in Mumbai, morphed them from "good terrorists" to "bad terrorists".

And it will morph them into 'good terrorists' if the LET goes back to killing Indians and leaving the foreigners / westerners alone soon enough.
Mumbai is already being pinned on AQ / LET with the AQ getting more attention these days - soon, the blame for even a diwali pathaka in downtown delhi will be laid at AQ's door - and we all know that the AQ is bad onlee.

The LET guys are being freed one by one to prepare for the next attack in India.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 22 Jun 2009 11:43

There has been no terrorist attack since 26/11.I think Pakjabis have realised that Indians have had enough.Even Amirkhans have realised that.

Now the amirkhans are talking about Kashmir.Even here they know that they cannot armtwist India.Let us not underestimate our strength.GOI is now taking on the maoists.Pakjabis might now concentrate on demographics and islamic propaganda in BD,pilbhit,UP,Assam,Bengal.We need to neutralise the threats in these regions.

The terror attacks were happening with sickening regularity.Thank God,They have stopped.It cannot be by chance,knowing the nature of pakis.It means GOI has conveyed unequivocally to all concerned,that the rules of the game have changed.Why is that nobody here is looking it that way.

As far as avenging the atrocities on Bombay,that is a different issue altogether.