Indian Income Tax System

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 29 Jun 2014 23:43

Perhaps I should have titled this
The Travails of the Indian Income Tax System, but I do not wish to

. The system is actually INTENDED to be fair and the government apparently INTENDS to be customer-friendly towards honest taxpayers. However, the reality is as often happens in India, very different in practice.

My evil 6th coujin has been filing Indian Income Tax for many years, mostly from Ennarreyestan but sometimes from inside desh. The system has evolved from
a) asking a local (desh) expert accountant to file (when there was very little to file), to
b) realizing that there was no correlation between the data provided to those entities and the data filed by the same
c) taxpayer filing onself by paper
d) going online to download Pharm Saral IT-2 and converting to XML and filing that online
...
to this year, which is all special in several ways.

Now I will list the interesting lessons. May take a few posts. What I need is some advice on why the system is getting increasingly messy and how to get the guvrmand to do what needs to be done.

First this year's special situation:
1. The TDS TRACES website was not accessible from outside India. There was no announcement of this, just that the site started coming up "site not accessible" as if it was just gone for chai-biskoot. The Rumor Mill on the web is what told me that the site was not accessible only from OUTSIDE India.

2. Eventually the TDS TRACES site became accessible, but user ID and pw used on the govt's own site, was not working here. Had to register again. This was a VERY interesting process, because the meanings and interpretations of "surname", "middle name" and "first name" are completely different between (a) the PAN system, (b) the outside world and (c) the TRACES database.

3. Eventually we dealt with that too, and got on the system.

4. It turned out that TDS data entered, had been done by einsteins of a higher level of IQ than even pakistanis. The same data had been entered multiple times. The numbers in a column for a given institution did not add up to the total given at the top (not surprising), nor to any combination of right or wrong numbers given.

5. The NATIONALIZED banks do not respond to repeated requests to send the Form 16A letting ppl know how much interest has been paid and TDS has been deducted, though the Govt. seems to believe the banks are supposed to do so.

6. I have no idea how the correct information can be put on the TRACES site.

7. The TRACES site now does not take log in ID information properly: keeps saying password is wrong, but when I went to try change it, it said I couldn't use the same password as the last one (then why didn't it take the last one?)

Who are the entities "responsible" for this (I mean the name, address, phone numbers etc) please?

It appears that these worthies are dead set against people who try to honestly file Indian income taxes.

I wonder if a specific letter to the Prime Minister might be appropriate, naming the department heads of the departments who need to be de-headed and re-headed.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 29 Jun 2014 23:45

In case ppl here are not familiar with the Indian Eye Tee (Income Tax) system, here is the main portal (of the day: it keeps changing like musical chairs)

http://incometaxindia.gov.in/26ASTaxCreditStatement.asp
They seem to think it is really essential to have those signs go round and round, but not for the *&^%$ site to be up and make sense.

But at least this site comes up. The 26AS aka TRACES site is a complete disaster, and the babus heading the IT dept seem to be fine with that. Is this a corrupt scam to force law-abiding taxpayers to pay baksheesh in order to obey the law?

If you try to see your TDS info, you will be redirected:

View Form 26AS (Tax Credit)

You will be redirected to the TDS-CPC website to view Form 26AS (Tax Credit Statement)

Apparently the government farms out the data on your taxes and interest to some private contractor. From the performance of that operation, I gather that the contractor must be pakistani.

You are then told:

TDSCPC services for NRIs is available through https://nriservices.tdscpc.gov.in/nriapp/login.xhtml . Kindly register and access TDSCPC NRI services through same.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 30 Jun 2014 00:04

Now this is a wonderful form. While all other GOI sites ask for DOB in the form dd/mm/yyyy, this one says:

Date of Birth / Date of Incorporation*
(dd-mmm-yyyy; e.g., 12-Dec-1980)

Date of Birth / Date of Incorporation as on PAN card (e.g., 20-Feb-1980) ...

You KNOW it's the same password that works on the basic government tax site (why would you give something else), so you enter it.

You get the message, after a couple of tries:

You have 3 attempts left

So you decide to go try to change the password while the site has not yet locked you out.

Forgot Password
Step 1 ---- Step 2 ---- Step 3

User Details

User Id*

1. User Id registered with TRACES
2. User Id for Tax Payer will be PAN

Date of Birth / Date of Incorporation*
(dd-mmm-yyyy; e.g., 12-Dec-1980)

Date of Birth / Date of Incorporation as on PAN card (e.g., 20-Feb-1980) ...

Last Name / Surname*

Last Name / Surname as on PAN Master. Non-Individuals should provide their name in Last Name / Surname field
First Name
First Name as in PAN
Middle Name
Middle Name as in PAN
Verification Code
Click to refresh image
Enter text as in above image*

After a couple of hours of walking along the ceiling last month, I learned that the trick here is to know how your PAN data are jumbled. To find this out, you can go to the very helpful site KNOW YOUR PAN
http://incometaxindiaefiling.gov.in/e-F ... nLink.html
which will give the helpful message

Service Unavailable
This server is temporarily unable to service requests. Error code: 95

So you make your best guess. It takes the data. It says it will send you the message processing the Request to Change Your Password. After about 15 minutes (yes, amazingly fast!) an email comes in from "TDS Intimations" <intimations@tdscpc.gov.in>

Mr / Ms / M/s (Tori Bau Lantori),
Change of Password has not been processed due to incorrect verification data entered during forgot password request submission. Please raise another request with correct verification data.
Regards,
ITD_Signature
(name temporarily deleted)
Deputy Commissioner of Income Tax
Centralized Processing Cell - TDS
Note:
This is a system generated message. Please do not reply to it directly. In case of any queries, you may reach out to us at contactus@tdscpc.gov.in.Visit TRACES at www.nriservices.tdscpc.gov.in
This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient or you do not receive this email, notify us immediately and delete the original message. Further, you are not to copy, disclose, or distribute this e-mail or its contents to any other person and any such actions are unlawful. [/i] (what the *** part of the Constitution says that disclosing the contents of a standard government form is unlawful?) In fact any attempt to be honest and pay income taxes or request lawful refunds is also unlawful.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 30 Jun 2014 03:02

The whole idea of taxation is a stupid one intended to create a needless bureaucracy of "administrators" who profit from the paper storm. If the system is not kept complicated, they would all be out of a job.

If the govt can print money, it can already tax wealth.

There is no need whatsoever to waste millions upon millions of man-hours collecting tax from each individual.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 30 Jun 2014 07:18

Well, they are certainly doing a great job of it, and the bankers (esp NATIONALIZED Bankers) are doing an even better job.

Consider the present situation:
1. Banks are supposed to enter the data on interest paid, and Tax Deducted At Source, and put the TDS into the guvrmand's kitty.
2. These data are supposed to be visible to the taxpayer, but the taxpayer has no control on how or when the data get entered.
3. The banks are SUPPOSED to send the taxpayer (their customer, whose money generates the interest that the bankers get paid out of) a Form 16A showing the interest paid, and the tax deducted, every Quarter. They are supposed to be done with it shortly after March 31, the end of the Indian FY.
4. At tax return time, the taxpayer is to go to the govt. site, download the info, and enter it into the tax return form, giving the
TAN of the deductor, the amount of interest, and the TDS.
5. The deadline for this is July 31 for uploading the completed tax return.
6. Around September the Govt. Tax Assessor checks up on the TRACES website for the TDS info and tries to match the return to the data at the website.

7. ANY ERROR IS BLAMED ON THE TAXPAYER. Consider this: if you report too MORE interest than is seen on the TRACES site, the government takes that as the actual income. IOW, it believes you. If you report LESS than at the TRACES site, they ding you for not reporting it, though they can see it very well there.
However, they will NOT believe you if you report MORE TDS than is at the site.
For instance, if you type one letter of the TAN wrong on the form, the Govt will reject that whole TDS amount. And bill you for underpayment, though they can see very well that the total amount of TDS held in your PAN is more than what they have counted!!!
8. So, if the government's bank does not report the data on your interest and TDS in time, or if they make a pig's breakfast of it, the government penalizes YOU for it.

9. Some nationalized banks don't do their math right, they ignore the law that they should send the Form 16A, they don't enter the data properly, and they don't respond to requests for correction.

INDIAN BANK is one of the worst villains this year. I believe the Chairman of INDIAN BANK is Shri T.M. Bhasin. Why is this guy so above the law?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 30 Jun 2014 07:50

On the plus side - and this is where one feels that there are many in the government who try very hard: When I messed up one number (typed 42 instead of 24 or the other way around in a TAN) they rejected the amount, but they also included a short description of the error and pointed out that a certain TAN was invalid. I was able to pinpoint the error, and then (following advice on the web) I was able to go to the site and put in a correction, very painless process. A month and a half later, the refund arrived by SpeedPost, with interest added. Excellent!

But back to the paki Bankers of Indian Nationalized Banks .....

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 02 Jul 2014 07:55

Continuing on the glories of the Tax Information Network of the Government of the World's Largest and Most Glorious IT SuperPower:

https://onlineservices.tin.egov-nsdl.co ... edView.jsp

Tax Information Network
of Income Tax Department
Provide following details to verify your Form 16A

View is provided for the purpose of verification of Form 16A generated from TIN website issued by Deductor to the deductee.

Financial Year:
Quarter:
TAN of the Deductor:
PAN of the Deductee:
Certificate Number:
Total Amount Deducted:
Enter Text As Seen In Image(Case Sensitive):
Note:

Provide above details as present in Form 16A.
The TDS Certificate in Form no. 16A can now be downloaded from the website of TRACES ( www.tdscpc.gov.in ). For further details you may write to contactus@tdscpc.gov.in.
In case of any discrepancy in Form 16A the taxpayer is advised to contact the deductor. The taxpayer should inform the deductor to file a correction statement to rectify the discrepancy in the TDS/TCS statement.
TIN is not responsible for any mismatch in the TDS Certificate and the actual transaction of the taxpayer with the deductor.
Verify complete Form 16A fromForm 26AS login.

So you click Form 26 login:
Tax Information Network of Income Tax Department

The generation of 26AS has been discontinued through NSDL w.e.f. November 1, 2012. The taxpayers are advised to view their updated Tax Credit Statements in Form 26AS on TRACES www.tdscpc.gov.in.

OK, so why can't these Baboos link that new site at the Form 26 Login???

So I click on www.tdscpc.gov.in

TDSCPC services for NRIs is available through https://nriservices.tdscpc.gov.in/nriapp/login.xhtml . Kindly register and access TDSCPC NRI services through same.

So I go there:
The password that works on the main Income Tax network will not work at this site. You have to register all over again. AND.. as I have confirmed now after it happened several times.. they delete the password after a couple of uses, so next time you go there, no matter how carefully you save the password, it don't work. You have a total of 5 attempts. You spend the first 2 in double-takes, sure that you know your password, then you spend one more in "one last try, maybe it was this". Now you have 2 attempts left b4 u r locked out, with whatever horrible consequences.

So you decide to change your password. Before I describe that process, here's what happens when you go through it: at the final stage it asks you to put in your NEW password. You put in what you KNEW was your password, except it didn't work: The system rejects it because "you can't use your last password again!" So it DID have your password, it just didn't accept it when you typed it!!!!!

Here is the log-in at this wonderful site:
Login
User Id*
User Id for Tax Payer will be PAN
Password*
PAN for Tax Payer*

IOW, user ID IS the same as PAN for Tax Payer, so you have to enter the PAN twice.
.......

negi · Post by **negi** » 02 Jul 2014 08:25

^ Wait till you are done with everything only for speedpost guys to somehow manage to loose your ITR copy in middle of all this

.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 02 Jul 2014 22:02

SpeedPost is another wonder altogether. On two occasions in the past, someone sent something by Speed Post across the globe to us. On both occasions they used the Avatar HyperPlane developed by DeeArrDeeOh 100% Indigenous Contant with only 75% Phoren Collaborashun. It went clear around the globe and was Retarned to Sendar without touching down.

But to their credit, on one occasion when I was SURE they were lying about having delivered something inside desh, it turned out that I was wrong - the envelope was found under some pile in an Annual Excavation of someone's desk.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 21 Jul 2014 06:48

Either you guys don't pay taxes or you are all so rich that you hire Accountants and just tell them to deal with everything, hain? Can't explain why u aren't walking along the ceiling, given that July 31 is the deadline.

The Unique Certificate Number of the TDS Form 16A that one is supposed to enter in Schedule SI(?) where one enters TDS:

The certificates that I managed to extract by using extreme methods, all have SEVEN character Certificate Numbers. In the LEFT upper corner of the form.

The Tax Form IT-2 Java tool says one should enter two leading zeros if one is trying to enter a SIX-digit Certificate number. IOW, it expects an EIGHT-DIGIT NUMBER for the UNIQUE Certificate number.

It turns out that there IS an 8-CHARACTER code - it is the RECEIPT NUMBER.

So now one tries to go to the TRACES website of the IT department, the one that proclaims:

WELCOME TIN USER

You can (supposedly) enter your PAN, the TDS Deductor's TAN, the FINANCIAL YEAR Quarter (not ASSESSMENT YEAR Quarter) when it was deducted, the amount deducted, and then the CAPTCHA Code.

To get the cryptic message:

Details are nat matching onlee yaar. Come back tomaarraw!

I am not smart but I am persistent. Tried every combination for a couple of hours. No dice.

Entar valid SIX DIGIT Code onlee!

OK, what *****(wonderful, smart, pretty/handsome Leadership Potential genius

)***** set up and manages this system, I wonder...

I tried checking on the CA Network of India. After trying the many sites that all gave complete garbage "advice", obviously from ppl who had never tried filling in a tax form.

Apparently their advice is:

Don't enter any details in the TDS columns. The IT form tool is wrong, the Unique Number is given in the top right hand corner, no no no yaar it eej NAAT the Unique Numbaar onlee, when I asked them they said to complain to the Adminstataar Eye Tee who does not bother to read

i also inquired the same from deptt. They told me to complaint to efiling.administrator.incometaxindia.gov.in

what to do.,Stop filing these sort of returns, is that solution for now.

can i rufud my tds credit with 26A without having Form 16A.

AhA! That IS why I stopped trusting these things to Indian CAs: they just shove the problems under the rug and leave me to either lose money or face the Demand Notice (or both). Using only the totals for a year from a given bank is crazy because (drumroll!!!)

THE COLUMN TOTALS ARE NOT ADDED UP PROPERLY IN THE FORM A26 TDS STATEMENT: I did not believe that computer data sets could show up with wrong arithmetic, but they do, if done by the Nationalized Banks of India. And oh! the private banks just "forget" to enter any data at all!!

like: 2 + 3 + 5+ 7 + 3 = 10. Don't Indian Bank experts pass arithmetic any more, or did the prices of hooch go down so much that all the data entry centers have hooch flowing in the water coolers?

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 21 Jul 2014 10:44

I had the same issue for getting data from TRACES. After so many exhausting login approvals, I got that correct

You simply pay some amount as self assessment tax and use that receipt number. Rest will flow correctly

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 21 Jul 2014 18:42

Could u pls expand on that, symontkji? How does that make them release the correct TDS that they are holding hostage? I thought they just go by the numbers on the A26, and the only way to fight that is to show that you put in the numbers from Form16A marked "final" when u filled in the ITR-2?

Much appreciate the gyan in advance.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 21 Jul 2014 19:42

I suppose you are not able to login to TRACES. Let me know if this is the case

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 21 Jul 2014 19:58

If you are able to login, download the Form 26AS from the TRACES site as text not as PDF. PDF is not working. I checked even now, its not working, but you can get as Text. But the text one is totally out to your interpretation but you can get the figures correctly from this

I was able to download all the files from 2009 until now as text files just now

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 21 Jul 2014 19:59

I got my Form 26AS as form 16 from my company, so no issues for me

negi · Post by **negi** » 25 Jul 2014 15:06

UlanBatori wrote:Either you guys don't pay taxes or you are all so rich that you hire Accountants and just tell them to deal with everything, hain? Can't explain why u aren't walking along the ceiling, given that July 31 is the deadline.

I abhor the whole concept of filing for tax, the system would have made sense if they were not deducting my income at source but expect me to pay it at the end of the year based on my deductions, if they deduct my tax even without me having any control/say in it then I might as well not file for returns , I pay some chap INR 200 and fill the piece of toilet paper and be done with it. Sorry but I for some reason do not have any kind of faith in existing tax setup in India. The way I see it I would rather have peace of mind by not wasting my time on this exercise when no returns are to be realized.

I for one fail to understand as to why should the onus of filing tax be on individual who has already paid the fckn amount in advance, in fact Govt. should provide me a receipt at end of every year that x is the amount you have paid as tax, I need t file for returns in case I am eligible else I need not do anything. This whole exercise of first pay money and then run pillar to post to show evidence that I paid tax is a joke.

csaurabh · Post by **csaurabh** » 25 Jul 2014 17:27

Well I don't know how the system works outside India. But this is my experience.

Use tax calculator to find how much tax you should pay ( using payable income from form-16 etc )
Use TRACES to find how much tax has been paid.

There can be a mismatch. This can be due to the following reason: If you have two income sources, the 2nd one does not know about the first one. Thus it calculates tax based on 10% slab, instead of 15% that it should be if you add both sources ( this happened for me ).

Then you need to 'self pay' the tax, get receipt no. from TRACES and enter it, should work fine. The website is actually pretty good if you know what you are doing.

To be honest though this is the first time I did it myself, and had help. Previously I just paid Rs. 230 to CAs to do it for me. There are various websites these days that offer such services.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Jul 2014 06:40

Use TRACES to find how much tax has been paid.
There can be a mismatch. This can be due to the following reason:

Saurabhji, I too have done this from inside and outside desh. For a couple of decades. Every year. Every taxpayer in the family (In India there is no Joint Return). It is like Drunk Driving: Sure, it goes fine when it works. It is on the other occasions that there is trouble.

The "mismatch" is because the banks, and their appointed flunkies (Karvy Computing used to be the Outsourcee for most banks) do not take any care in entering data. There is no quality control. There is no accountability (they can't count either).

Please read above (that would make you an exception: apparently few Indian Bank Aphsars, IAS aphsars, Tax aphsars etc can read these days, they are not just arithmetic-challenged).

The numbers in a given bank's entries do not add up to the total given at the top!!! And the Tax System (guvrmand) puts the onus ENTIRELY on the taxpayer, to get the guvrmand to have the right numbers. Despite the fact that the aphsars of the Nationalized Banks are immune to having their asses kicked out, only because they are Guvrmand Aphsars.
So please enjoy your good fortune as I did in the years when things worked fine.

One of these days someone will get through to the new PMO with an official, detailed complaint naming names at the Nationalized Banks and the IT Sytem's "Customer Service". Let's see...

negi · Post by **negi** » 29 Jul 2014 12:41

As I type on this dhaga, I am trying to file my taxes through a website called Cleartax. Gobermund's website sent my head spinning with some excel crap which never opens and JRE $hit not working as required. Let's see how it goes, last year I paid 250 to a chap that came to my company and got the thing done.

negi · Post by **negi** » 29 Jul 2014 12:44

Ok filed my taxes in 15 minutes flat.

Your Income Tax return was accepted by the Income Tax Department.

Your Acknowledgement number provided by the Income Tax Department is: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

You will receive an email with the acknowledgement (ITR-V) from the Income Tax Department in the next 7 days.

You can directly download the ITR-V from the Income Tax Department website. Please see this tutorial: http://blog.cleartax.in/where-is-my-itr ... rom-income

Please read instructions on sending your ITR-V (acknowledgement): http://cleartax.in/Guide/SendItrV

You just e-filed your tax return using the most awesome Income Tax Return filing service in India!

Tell your friends, family and co-workers about ClearTax.
We have created a special link for you from where you can invite your friends: http://cleartax.in/entity/Referral/navee643

Kindly note that ClearTax is offering free of cost e-filing to all women. Details are here: http://cleartax.in/Meta/FreeIncomeTaxReturnFiling

Best,
ClearTax Support Staff
http://www.cleartax.in

negi · Post by **negi** » 29 Jul 2014 13:27

Ok got following

DONOTREPLY@incometaxindiaefiling.gov.in
Attachments1:14 PM (51 minutes ago)

to me
Dear Nalayak NEGI,

The e-Filing of Income Tax Return for ADXXXXXX1L for ITR-1 of 2014 has been successfully submitted.

Your ITR-V/Acknowledgment is attached and to open, you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader. If you do not have an Adobe Acrobat Reader, please visit the following link to download it: www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

Your ITR-V/ Acknowledgment is protected by a password for your security. Please enter your PAN (in small letters) and Date of Birth or Incorporation (in ddmmyyyy format), in combination, to view your ITR-V/Acknowledgment (Eg: If your pan is AAAPA0000A and the date of birth is 10-Jan-2008, then the password will be aaapa0000a10012008).

Please verify, print and sign the ITR-V and send it by Ordinary Post OR Speed Post ONLY within a period of 120 days from the date of transmitting the data electronically, to the address as mentioned below. ITR-V sent by Registered Post or Courier will not be accepted. ITR-V shall not be received in any other office of the Income-tax Department or in any other manner.

Address
Income Tax Department - CPC,
Post Bag No – 1,
Electronic City Post Office,
Bangalore - 560100,
Karnataka

Last year I got the same email from DONOTREPLY@incometaxindia.gov.in instead of DONOTREPLY@incometaxindiaefiling.gov.in , I hope this is not some fraud email id.

Yogesh · Post by **Yogesh** » 29 Jul 2014 17:29

Negi- I did on the web portal of the IT dept not through some thrid party- i have no reply mail from DONOTREPLY@incometaxindiaefiling.gov.in . Not sure if this (getting mail from DONOTREPLY@incometaxindia.gov.in ) is something to do third party filing, as in the ITR one has to mention whether you are filing for someone else behalf.. the best you could do is log-into the IT filing web portal & check in your dash board whether return has been filled.

negi · Post by **negi** » 30 Jul 2014 19:52

^ Yes but the prilliant website needs one to register for checking status too, which means they do not track status if filing is done by third party.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 31 Jul 2014 08:13

Ulanbatori, I do not know if there are issues in accessing TRACES specifically from outside India. You can also access that when you login to any of your bank accounts. Use the Form 26AS option.

As for the ITR-V acknowledgement, yes, that has been a pain for a long time though I personally never had an issue after I returned to India. Anyway, this pain is being removed totally from next year. One can check the status of the ITR-V on the IT website.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 31 Jul 2014 08:20

negi wrote:Ok filed my taxes in 15 minutes flat.

Negi, that reply you got is genuine. I used another website Taxsmile for two of my family members and that was a breeze too.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 31 Jul 2014 20:23

Gobermund's website sent my head spinning with some excel crap which never opens and JRE $hit not working as required

.

Ha! Weep, O EyeTee Exparts! Even humble moi with my yak-herding skills, was able to negotiate that. When it finally opened (sheer magic: After numerous repeated downloadings/intallations of JAR whatzits, I hit several keys in frustration and Open Sesame! There were stirrings in the background and slowly, as a a lotus flower opens in an African Payal pond, this fabulous Eye-Tee-Arr opened. Once inside, it was easy to fill, it does most of the computation by guvrmand-abbroved arithmetic onlee.

Yes, it is wrong in the TeeDeeYuss Schedule TDS in asking for the Eight-Digit Unique ID etc.

It automatically saves as XML (!!) every time you Save, so you can't just open the resource without getting out and re-doing the Open Sesame on the Java resources (IOW, your half-filled form disappears, only XML can be found!!). Fortunately I had copied my form off the blank one downloaded from the site, so I could repeat that open-sesame process and then the saved XML thingy opened.

Sridhar, as of early April, and perhaps some time much earlier, one COULD NOT ACCESS the TRACES site from outside India!!! I checked the web chatter on this, and confirmed that this was the case. Had to get it opened by someone inside India, who had no problem.

Then, around May/early June, Open Sesame! The site magically opened.

These (kind, brilliant, gentle Baboon ) who "run" the System need to have their (taxbills) cut off.

Either the Eye-Tee Baboon have concluded that all who are too poor to afford Accountants etc are computer/web-savvy enough to handle this Magic Lamp, or they are very deliberately trying to make life as difficult as possible for us aam log.

I hear u about accessing EyeTee from inside Bank Account. That brings up a whole set of other issues. Separate dhaga needed for that. Short version: so far I refuse to have any online access for anyone to India-based bank accounts. But... resistance crumbling. India is fast becoming Western Standards onlee in such things, i.e., the online site and the ATMs are faaaaar more intelligent than the "hyoomans" inside the buildings. Sad.

negi · Post by **negi** » 31 Jul 2014 23:02

^ Boss I got it working but since it gives an error message before actually opening the excel , I could not trust if the excel contents and macros had not corrupted so played safe and used ClearTax.

It seems most of the third Party sites are making some kind of API or WS calls to Gobermund website and they provide a far simpler UI for one to navigate and fill in the details. I managed to fill mine in flat 15 minutes which included time spent on digging for IFSC code and bank account number.

I just had my monthly income , rent and section 80 and 80 c to declare no property or interests from share and other holdings to declare so managed it pretty fast.

negi · Post by **negi** » 31 Jul 2014 23:07

The whole idea of efiling of tax is to make the process simpler, I for one am completely lost as to what the fck is the rationale behind making someone download an excel file or JRE, it should be a simple webpage form which users fill and move to next form once done they should be able to review their declaration online and may be then download it in a text/excel/pdf/xml form for future reference .

Downloading a file then uploading it means there are minimum BW requirements and user is expected to have a certain version of MSFT excel installed so basically GOI has managed to increase the logistical footprint of a simple use case which could be addressed via a simple webpage at least 10 folds and introduced multiple entry points for errors.

I am really curious to know as to who came up with the design and who got the contract for the website.

negi · Post by **negi** » 31 Jul 2014 23:42

I have raised these pain points here

MyGov.nic.in

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Aug 2014 07:25

Thanks for that site. Good way to waste a lot of hours.

I was hesitating to start

so soon after the new PM took over, but this tax thing requires a whole essay.

As you say, that whole thing stinks of major corruption and fraud by the EyeTee contractors, with some dimbulb Baboo supervising. The Java Tool etc is beyond imagination, it is total fraud. How many tax accountants in India know enough to do THAT competently?

I DO hope more BRFee Eye Tee/DOO experts review that site and these procedures: it is utterly stunning for anyone who has had to deliver any sort of finished product to a customer. To think that the National Income Tax system of India is done on the competence level of a middle school homework assignment, is quite depressing.

The word on the web is that the contractor is/was InfoSys. The TRACES was originally set up by TCS, I think. Karvy Computing had the monopoly on the TDS data entry (they also had the market cornered on converting paper stocks to "demat").

But this past 2 years' utter nonsense is apparently InfoSys. Calls for some serious investigative journalism - the fraud is so blatant. It brings back nightmares about the old Cochin Customs office.

vina · Post by **vina** » 01 Aug 2014 13:24

UlanBatori wrote:
I was hesitating to start so soon after the new PM took over, but this tax thing requires a whole essay.

As you say, that whole thing stinks of major corruption and fraud by the EyeTee contractors, with some dimbulb Baboo supervising. The Java Tool etc is beyond imagination, it is total fraud. How many tax accountants in India know enough to do THAT competently?

I DO hope more BRFee Eye Tee/DOO experts review that site and these procedures: it is utterly stunning for anyone who has had to deliver any sort of finished product to a customer. To think that the National Income Tax system of India is done on the competence level of a middle school homework assignment, is quite depressing.

Yo ! YakHerder. Take a chill pill and stop bad mouthin' em Baboons and the TCS Doos.. This java tool works like a charm. All they require is 100% boor Java from the Original Java Hadith givers, Sun/Oracle onree. Once you do that, things work like a charm.

You run the Java utility, it starts up, asks you for your userid and password , and you press the "Prefill " icon and it downloads all your personal details and things like the form 26AS tax details, just like rubbing Alladin's magic lamp and the Genie appearing and fulfilling all your tax commands. No more entering all stuff, no more looking at Traces or anything. Just fill in the rest of the stuff and save, and press upload, the thing a magic automatically uploads your returns and you get the acknowledgement right away and via email.

No need to even log in to the IT e-filing website, except maybe to download the tool in the phurst place.

The word on the web is that the contractor is/was InfoSys. The TRACES was originally set up by TCS, I think. Karvy Computing had the monopoly on the TDS data entry (they also had the market cornered on converting paper stocks to "demat").

But this past 2 years' utter nonsense is apparently InfoSys. Calls for some serious investigative journalism - the fraud is so blatant. It brings back nightmares about the old Cochin Customs office.

From what this ex -doo can see is that this Java tool is from TCS, along with the IT/vity part of the Income Tax . Infy is the BPO part of processing your return, after you upload, put your signature and send the ITR-V to the processing centre at Bangalore Kerala for further processing.

You need to chillax and come to 21phust Century and let go of Fortran Yak Herding. After all, one needs to take inspiration from the good old movie " Dr Strangelove - How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb" . You really need to stop worrying and start loving the Java Bomb and all the Oracle and IT/Vity Doos and the baboons. You have got to learn to love entering obtuse commands like

sudo chmod 735 xxxxxxxxxxxxx

You might have filed a piddly ITR-1S or something' . I filed out the ITR-4 , the maha , maha , Tsar Bomba of tax returns using the Java utility without any Chartered-e-Accountant. Like I said, it is time to start luvin Java. Can't be otherwise, it is Modi time now.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Aug 2014 13:41

negi wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Either you guys don't pay taxes or you are all so rich that you hire Accountants and just tell them to deal with everything, hain? Can't explain why u aren't walking along the ceiling, given that July 31 is the deadline.
I abhor the whole concept of filing for tax, the system would have made sense if they were not deducting my income at source but expect me to pay it at the end of the year based on my deductions, if they deduct my tax even without me having any control/say in it then I might as well not file for returns , I pay some chap INR 200 and fill the piece of toilet paper and be done with it. Sorry but I for some reason do not have any kind of faith in existing tax setup in India. The way I see it I would rather have peace of mind by not wasting my time on this exercise when no returns are to be realized.

I for one fail to understand as to why should the onus of filing tax be on individual who has already paid the fckn amount in advance, in fact Govt. should provide me a receipt at end of every year that x is the amount you have paid as tax, I need t file for returns in case I am eligible else I need not do anything. This whole exercise of first pay money and then run pillar to post to show evidence that I paid tax is a joke.

How does the Government know you do not have other sources of Income, Interest, Rent etc.or Company has deducted excess and you need a refund. It is from your declaration. Return of Income is your declaration which the Government can hold you on to.

Vina -> ITR V is much more complicated than ITR IV. Mostly it is non qualified persons who work on induvidual returns, money is in Corporate tax.

BhairavP · Post by **BhairavP** » 01 Aug 2014 13:54

Meesa poor salaried employee onlee, a couple of outside sources of income included. Finished the ITR II on the 15th, uploaded, sent the form in, and got an acknowledgement via email and SMS that it has reached namma Bengaluru already.
Quite fast and no hassle.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 01 Aug 2014 14:16

I filed on 22nd. Actually this was my 2nd completely online filling. It was quite hassle free.

Last year I found out about some old FDs I had through my 26AS which were automatically getting reinvested and interest was getting added (of course tax was also getting deducted).

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 01 Aug 2014 17:53

UlanBatori wrote:Thanks for that site. Good way to waste a lot of hours.

I was hesitating to start so soon after the new PM took over, but this tax thing requires a whole essay.

As you say, that whole thing stinks of major corruption and fraud by the EyeTee contractors, with some dimbulb Baboo supervising. The Java Tool etc is beyond imagination, it is total fraud. How many tax accountants in India know enough to do THAT competently?

I DO hope more BRFee Eye Tee/DOO experts review that site and these procedures: it is utterly stunning for anyone who has had to deliver any sort of finished product to a customer. To think that the National Income Tax system of India is done on the competence level of a middle school homework assignment, is quite depressing.

The word on the web is that the contractor is/was InfoSys. The TRACES was originally set up by TCS, I think. Karvy Computing had the monopoly on the TDS data entry (they also had the market cornered on converting paper stocks to "demat").

But this past 2 years' utter nonsense is apparently InfoSys. Calls for some serious investigative journalism - the fraud is so blatant. It brings back nightmares about the old Cochin Customs office.

Many Ramzans ago I developed some s/w for a govt organization.

I dont think it is bapu's fault. They must have been asked how the system works or give a data/workflow diagram of the current system and they would have given a wonderfully drawn picture.

Our itvity's zimbly developed the system with all those goberment checks and balances without thinking many of them wouldnt be needed in an online system.

I always trust our itivity to screw up things. They dont need some dirty, kurrupt gobermend babus to make things complicated, buggy and crashy.

If in doubt ask Aadhar system!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Aug 2014 20:49

vina, the Desh Eye-Tee (meaning tax) system is super-sophisticated.

1. It is ultra-modern is that it does not ask for Marital Status etc unlike savage 0th-world dumps.
2. Instead there are 4 categories of ppl, rated downwards per their Station In Life: The FlowChart is as follows:

A. Are U Govarned By Portuguese Law per Vasco Da Gama?
If Yes, take One Merit
If No, then
B. Are U Owning Race Harses?
If Yes, take Two Merits
If not then

. U r slime.
Endif

IOW, owning Race Car is OK, no concern of Eye Tee. Betting on Krikit is OK, that comes under "Special Non-Taxable Income" Schedule SI. Paying Pribe to Pabus is esp. OK, comes under Section 80GG for Guvrmand Gratuity.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Jun 2017 19:14

AoA! Visiting these parts after many ramazans.

2 years ago, Indian Bank, (nationalized) simply decided not to report or deposit TDS. More in SHQ naam than in mine, but both affected. I noticed circa January (too late to walk into the branch) and started asking them to check what was going on. Cut the story short, despite escalating to the level of the entire Board, nothing happened, even though tax deadline was extended to August 31.

Turns out the Manager in that branch was the brother-in-law of Big Police Suprindent, so he did not believe in coming to work. Also, retired at end of year. Also person competent in whatever, suffered heart attack (not surprising) so was off work, and the accounting of interest was done by a young bibi who was 404. After some in-person explanations delivered in audible voice at their branch, New Mgr came with stacks of paper etc. to claim Reformed, Turned New Page etc. I forced them to report the late TDS to the Guvrmand. Huge error on my part, but it was mainly because after 4 or 5 years, the Govt. had mysteriously, just 2 months before this latest saga, refunded all the money I had asked after previous such TDS-non-reporting stunt by South Indian Bank. Plus 9.9% compound interest!!! So my respect and admiration (not 2 mention fear) of the Govt. was at an all-time high.

OK, so the Indian Bank buggers reported and deposited the correct amount, very late. IT Central Brocejjing Center (CPC), B'luru had already processed my return swiftly out of NaMo-induced alacrity, so correction filing was rejected. I went to the Best Accounting Service in Town (run by neighbor and long-time acquaintance) and they filed Proper Way. That was back in 2015. After many this and that, nothing seen yet.

Question 1 to vinaji:

I notice that in the TDS section of Saral, there is an option to claim PREVIOUS YEAR'S UNCLAIMED AMOUNTS.

Is it wise to coolly ask for that there, I wonder. Would be bad if that forces me to go to B'luru to explain in person. Not enough money to pay for 1 airfare let alone 2.

**************************************************************
Switch to 2016. Evil 6th coujin taught a GIAN Course at - where else - Eye Eye Tea Madras in Chennai, the Dunia's Greatest Ingineering Institushun etc. Cut long story short:

Even today, the TDS from that payment (made in October for course ended early August) has not shown up. Escalated all the way to Director etc. Latest excuse from Chairman, CCE of IITM:

"Our govt, has not provided receipt".

Well, have "we" deposited the amount? If so, "we" must have proof of that, hain?

Question 2: WHO DO I COMPLAIN TO in desh govt, asking to string up the IITM Baboons (not those who live in trees but in the posh Quarters) and others starting with Director, GIAN Coordinator, Chairman CCE, etc, from some of those ancient trees? I have been trying to remind them since, well, January, 8 (EIGHT) reminders so far, and July 31 is way too close and I am out of options. They are lying: obviously trying to steal the TDS money since many of the GIAN profs are gora imports, and none seems inclined to pay Indian taxes. Think about it: They have taken some $200K to $300K in TDS. If it disappears, hey, all happy. Except stupid ppl who try to obey Indian Law.

I am tired of this garbage: I think those IIT goons need to be made an example of, with the results published in all Chennai newspapers. They have no lack of education. Per the rules published on IT site, TDS is to be deposited within 7 days of deduction (that would be October 2016), failing which, within 1 month. Failing which, by end of Quarter. Failing which, by March 31. Failing all that, absolutely by April 20.

Penalties are specified. I want to see those applied fairly to the musharrafs of the Director, the Chairman CCE and all the rest of the baboon.

BTW, vinjai, read n weep. I have been successfully filing those Pharm Saral-2 for many saal now, despite their annual attempts to force me to learn new Computer Science. Even able to file from evil MacBook, IIRC. Wonderful software, wonderful system.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Jun 2017 19:22

[quote="vina"]

[\quote]

Hope that shows up on your control panel and makes you come to this post.

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 24 Jun 2017 16:05

Form 26AS was updated and last quarter returns of fixed deposits of banks were entered by June 1st so the TDS values are to be taken from that date. This does not include bank SB interest which is why you are getting the discrepancy. The easiest way to access traces site is via bank login. I am not sure why you are all running into so much trouble. Incidentally the XML file generation is given to allow chartered accountants file their clients retrurns via software like Winman which interface and just do not allow you to file your returns in a wrong manner. Probably when you don't use these interfaces it may be a problem but I haven't seen any problems so far. The one problem I did face last time was efiling validation of one of my family members returns. Otherwise it was a smooth affair. I think they could make it simpler but it is designed from a chartered accountants point of view.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Jun 2017 09:27

I am not sure why you are all running into so much trouble.

Simple:
Because(a) I try to pay taxes honestly and (b) in desh, there is no correlation between what is "supposed to happen" and what actually happens.

I am quite aware of Form 26 etc, though I cannot understand why on a web-based portal, you have to go sign in and REQUEST the 26 statement, and then come back after 24 hours to actually download it! Seems like even the computers have been programmed with the Babooncracy's habitual feature of telling the taxpayer:

Come back tomorrow onlee!

I mean, how long does it take a COMPUTER to update a document? Where is the need for human interaction in that?

This year the banks seem to have not screwed up (haven't checked in detail). But IIT Madras has, as far as I can tell, embezzled the money that was taken out as TDS from GIAN paycheques. It has never been deposited into the govt IT system. Certainly not at payment time as is done with paycheques, not at any Quarter's end, not by April 20 (specified latest deadline per IT website), not by May end, and not by June 24.

Story kept changing through the year, but now there is only silence, and clock is ticking to July 31 tax filing deadline. VERY clear that the money has disappeared: about $200K total from all the courses that have been taught in the past year+. Director's office on down, they are all aware of it. Silence.

Pls read above, thx. Pls let me know who is the proper authority to complain to when Govt. Officials don't do their jobs. Must be someone intelligent life below PM's office?