ALT-Tech Dhaga

[UlanBatori]

AoA! Those about to be shaheed Salute Thee etc. but I wonder if the Bradminullahs would kindly consider the need for us intellektually and terminologically challenged momeen to discuss certain things of vital importance, without getting beheaded by Bredators at demand of pompous entities (incidentally guess hu invented the term Bradmin. Hint: clearly had to be someone vastly knowledgeable at krikit and rellijun which are both now haraam).

Some elementary rules:
1) No haraam posts that might invite legitimate wrath of Al**h or Bredators. This is a genteel dhaga suitable for prowsing py the most bious phamily-oriented beebals, for which PeeAref is so phamous.
2) Thin-skinned ppl with no sense of humor are kindly requested to stay the **** away. All are welcome but refrain from
3) This is not the place to post Pakistani Physics - that should go into the One and Only BENIS dhaga.
4) Those who aspire to win Nobel Prij etc pls kindly go away.
5) Calm debate is welcome, with respect for all (postors). Those who are too immature to take gentle ribbing pls go to nearest nursery/daycare center.
6) Chaste Pingreji is strongly welcome here. Those who claim to be irritated by that pls go (OK, Rules 1 and 5 prevent me from saying where but you can at least elucidate that to yourself by deductive logic and extensive reference to the peer-reviewed literature expeditiously). Don't biss on us, v don't biss on u, go in biss.
7) On this dhaga, teenagers, Brophejars, Jarnails or whatever else get exactly the same respect.

B4 the Bredators hit the Delete Button... first post is what got summarily deleted from a certain Bombous Dhaga due to by Bombous Entities of the Second Kind. The Chinese claim to have achieved something truly remarkable in Phundamental Pissiks as well as in military/spying/hacker application: Transmitting Entangled Photons, over 1200 kilometers. IMO this is by far the most significant technological advance to have been claimed in the past 20 years. We will discuss why, once past the immediate danger of Frying Bledatols.

[UlanBatori]

Here it is: China's Satellite Breaks Record for Quantum Entanglement of Photons

This was June 2017. I don't recall any buzz about this here, maybe I missed it. But ppl need to think about the terrifying implications as well as more interesting implications. This is the key step in Quantum Teleportation; also in travel at speeds >>>>>>> speed of light. Things can happen simultaneously at two places separated by great distance, no speed of light limit, IIUC.

distance of 1,200 km (746 mi), smashing the quantum teleportation record of 100 km (62) set by NIST researchers nearly two years ago, Digital Journal reports.

Quantum entanglement is a phenomenon that is as complex as it is mystifying, involving the linking of groups or pairs of particles which can only be described in association with each other. Albert E. Einstein referred to the process as “spooky action at a distance.” And it’s just as well, considering that quantum entanglement violates the fundamental laws of general relativity, particularly the notion that nothing can travel faster than light.
Launched in August 2016 by QUESS (Quantum Experiments at Space Scale program), China’s Micius satellite was designed to function as a global quantum communication network, as reported by Economic Times. While it’s mathematically possible to transmit entangled photons via laser beams, scientists are faced with the difficult task of keeping the lines of communication aligned. Before QUESS launched the Micius satellite, the only way scientists can transmit entangled photons was through optical fibers. Optical fibers, however, are vulnerable to interference, making it difficult for scientists to establish a quantum communication network capable of transmitting over very long distances.
“It will be like tossing a coin from a plane at 100,000 meters above the sea level exactly into the slot of a rotating piggy bank,” Wang Jianyu, QUESS’s chief commander, said last August when the Chinese satellite was launched.
Chinese scientists from QUESS managed to figure out how to make the seemingly-impossible task of transmitting quantum-entangled photons over large distances possible. By making the laser beam on the satellite pass through a beam splitter, two polarizing states are created: one for sending entangled photons and one for receiving them. The Micius satellite then dispatches entangled photons to three receiving satellites over a distance 12 times larger than the previous record.
“For quantum networking, in this work, we have already achieved a two-photon entanglement distribution efficiency a trillion times more efficient than using the best telecommunication fibers,” said Jian-Wei Pan, lead researcher of the project.

Also see the Tweets below that. This stuff has immediate application in hacking/spying. That is what happened to the Quantum Teleportation project which is where I first saw a presentation on this stuff back around 1998. Turned into a nice SeeAyEh/EnnEssAy project and disappeared.

I believe Michael Crichton had a book on this where a company figures out how to quantum-teleport ppl, except they get reassembled slightly wrongly.

[UlanBatori]

China’s major breakthrough opens vast possibilities for a state-of-the-art quantum communication network that allows faster and more secure telecommunications. Essentially, entangled photons’ sensitivity to interference can actually work to their advantage: when hackers try to steal the information, the signal immediately becomes unreadable and alerts the users to the presence of the hack.

I don't understand this either. All hackers have to do is wait until the stuff is locked away securely on a disk like, oh... say at EquiFAX, hain?

the U.S. Defense Department has expressed concern that (Cheen) will utilize its space technology to prevent rival countries from using space-based assets in the event of a crisis, as reported by Space Intel Report.

[UlanBatori]

As snooty as it gets: Phrom Eye-B-'Em

Quantum Teleportation

Teleportation is the name given by science fiction writers to the feat of making an object or person disintegrate in one place while a perfect replica appears somewhere else. How this is accomplished is usually not explained in detail, but the general idea seems to be that the original object is scanned in such a way as to extract all the information from it, then this information is transmitted to the receiving location and used to construct the replica, not necessarily from the actual material of the original, but perhaps from atoms of the same kinds, arranged in exactly the same pattern as the original. A teleportation machine would be like a fax machine, except that it would work on 3-dimensional objects as well as documents, it would produce an exact copy rather than an approximate facsimile, and it would destroy the original in the process of scanning it. A few science fiction writers consider teleporters that preserve the original, and the plot gets complicated when the original and teleported versions of the same person meet; but the more common kind of teleporter destroys the original, functioning as a super transportation device, not as a perfect replicator of souls and bodies.

In 1993 an international group of six scientists, including IBM Fellow Charles H. Bennett, confirmed the intuitions of the majority of science fiction writers by showing that perfect teleportation is indeed possible in principle, but only if the original is destroyed . In subsequent years, other scientists have demonstrated teleportation experimentally in a variety of systems, including single photons, coherent light fields, nuclear spins, and trapped ions. Teleportation promises to be quite useful as an information processing primitive, facilitating long range quantum communication (perhaps ultimately leading to a "quantum internet"), and making it much easier to build a working quantum computer. But science fiction fans will be disappointed to learn that no one expects to be able to teleport people or other macroscopic objects in the foreseeable future, for a variety of engineering reasons, even though it would not violate any fundamental law to do so.

In the past, the idea of teleportation was not taken very seriously by scientists, because it was thought to violate the uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics, which forbids any measuring or scanning process from extracting all the information in an atom or other object. According to the uncertainty principle, the more accurately an object is scanned, the more it is disturbed by the scanning process, until one reaches a point where the object's original state has been completely disrupted, still without having extracted enough information to make a perfect replica. This sounds like a solid argument against teleportation: if one cannot extract enough information from an object to make a perfect copy, it would seem that a perfect copy cannot be made. But the six scientists found a way to make an end run around this logic, using a celebrated and paradoxical feature of quantum mechanics known as the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen effect. In brief, they found a way to scan out part of the information from an object A, which one wishes to teleport, while causing the remaining, unscanned, part of the information to pass, via the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen effect, into another object C which has never been in contact with A.

First Law of Ulan Bator: (OK, 150th law. The first 149 dealing with brober way to bark horses at taverns). Always use a name including Ek-Patthar to convey that u r not 404.

[UlanBatori]

The experiment that I originally heard is about electron spin quantum number: if u take 2 electrons that are "entangled" and have same all quantum energy level and states except opposite spin, and u separate them by a distance, and change the spin energy of one, the other will change automatically and instantly. I don't know where one finds the energy to do that, but this was the claim.

If that is true that has truly wild consequences which I will bost after some time.

[UlanBatori]

187 views and no one wants to post?? Have all the Pingreji-literate Faithphools run away, hain? Google Scholar search for "Quantum Teleportation: gives 30,600 hits.

Japanese paper, 2015 on 100km fiber transport

Paper from China (2017) on the Space experiment

[disha]

I thought quantum entanglement is hack-proof way of communication and not hacking into a system.

Basically once you have say 128 photons - that is pair of 64 photons and quantumly entangled and each photon can exist in one of 2 distinct state at given point of time and measurable., then you have an instant communication of 2^64 bits at faster than light. That is in the 64 photons (lets call it 64 bits of photons) you hold., you modify a bit value., the entangled 64 bits on the other side instantly changes to that same value where the other side reads the data you want to send.

Scale it to say 1024 * 8 bits of photons. And you have a kilobyte of data traveling at FTL. With such speeds you can transmit the entire collection of literature of the world to further and further distances in few seconds.

From the same paper above:

This work establishes the first ground-to-satellite up-link for faithful and ultra-long-distance quantum teleportation, an essential step toward global-scale quantum internet.

The implications are enormous. Imagine if there are two implants in skull of every human. And all quantum connected., all the brain waves can be transmitted instantaneously across to others. No more chanting "Aum"!

[shiv]

Eej thich relevant?
https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/916576662883524608

Saurav Jha‏ @SJha1618 20h20 hours ago

Good news. Raman Research Institute in partnership with @isro has developed India's first satellite based quantum communication system.
4 replies 70 retweets 99 likes

[negi]

UB sir the said novel by M Crichton is 'Timeline' excellent read imo. I think this topic is way out of my league however I understood this phenomenon from much famous Schrodinger's cat experiment i.e. the reason why this QE concept potentially lends itself well for purposes of communication is if an outside player/entity were to make an 'observation' (in physical terms measure or take a sample) about any of the elementary particles which constitute an entangled pair then it's counterpart would come to know of such an event and actually the 'observation' will be affected (from what I gather from Chinese experiment is that constituents of such an entangled setup can be physically separated in distance by thousands of KM and not only they still continue to remain 'entangled' but communication over that 'link' propagates at faster than the speed of light) ; so while I understand this paradox when explained using the cat experiment I think it is hard to visualize what people actually mean when talking about photons or anything elementary where everything is in terms of probabilities and not absolutes.

[negi]

I think there is some confusion (at least in my mind) the part about ability to communicate as in send messages (not the communication between constituents that are entangled) from point A to point B at faster than speed of light ; as per the article Chinese have been able to first create an entangled pair of photons and then transmit them via laser to designated receiving stations now what I can understand is for sure unlike the old way of encoding information using pulsed lasers over the fiber you can now encode a lot more information for you are now working at elementary particle levels (so I can see case for expanding the BW itself) but still the stream of such photons will only propagate from point A to point B at speed of light right ?

[UlanBatori]

Perhaps the laser beam is a way of establishing the communication link, like an optic fiber. Beam goes through a beamsplitter. So Changes in the states may be communicated over a large distance via the beams, instantly. Of course I don't understand it. Like Abdul burps over here, and Ayesha burps over there, same instant. If it is simultaneous then what is cause and what is effect? My issue is with work required to get Abdul to burp "in response" to Ayesha burping: if it is at speed of thought then who pays for the double work?

But as u say, an entire army of clones can be made to do the same thing at the same time all over the dunia.

[UlanBatori]

Eej thich relevant?
https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/916576662883524608

Saurav Jha‏ @SJha1618 20h20 hours ago

Good news. Raman Research Institute in partnership with @isro has developed India's first satellite based quantum communication system.
4 replies 70 retweets 99 likes

Absolutely 400 barjent! It eej clear that Chinese were copying ISRO work faster than speed of time, which is a bit troublesome because this was supposed to be hacker-broof.

[UlanBatori]

negiji & dishaji:
The research in this field since the 1990s very swiftly went into cryptography because that is where the funding was. The stuff I heard back then was with electrons separated in space. Now it is all about photons. Way over my head in both cases but I know the Agintzis were deeply interested.

Even this is 2nd gen revival of interest.
But it is a report that may be more comprehensible - not to me though.

[UlanBatori]

Hmm! Even the one I remember was actually about communications though they did talk about all other kinds of applications

[UlanBatori]

So with the Grand Mullah Shivullah here, we can get into the implications.
1) Instant communication because of entanglement. Suddenly (no pun intended) we can see how, say, a twin sibling can sense that the other twin is experiencing stress, etc etc. We have heard of numerous such cases. Now Alt-Pissicks proves that this is perfectly plausible. Tell-a-Patty becomes science. Why only extreme events? Like gravity waves, the usual stream of thoughts may not be worth commenting on, or be very low-amplitude in significance.

2) Principle of Detailed Balancing aka "Karma". In statistical thermodynamics, kuffar use this idea to get out of the basic difficulty in describing Equilibrium. Equilibrium is conceived not as a state of no action (that would be "IITM Ad Block") but as a case where reaction is so fast that no net change occurs (infinite reaction rate). This seems OK on macroscopic scale with chemical reactions.

Translating this to kinetic or quantum model (microscopic) becomes an issue. What happens when the next collision between two pakismolecules Abdul and Rashid sent both into an Excited State? How can system be conjidared to be in Equilibrium? Shortly it is going to be short one Sunni or one Shia. Aha! The statisticians say.

SOMEWHERE else in the dunia, there is a collision between another Rashid and Abdul with an opposite result.

Momeen accept this reasoning for not taking up the IED themselves to avenge every such atrocity. They are phlegmatic about it, thinking (sorry to use the term) that it is statistically possible.

Now it seems that the Principle of Detailed Balancing could be a Law of Nature! Not just statistical. What does this mean?

It means that Karma is literally valid on an individual basis. There is causality on a micro level.

These two items are what I wanted to present here, from pure scientific observation enabled by good technology. Why ALT-Tech allows a merger of pedestrian "science" with higher fields of philosophy.

[UlanBatori]

There is one other implication. The Material Dunia as v know it todin, is supposed to have "occurred" in the Big Bang. Big Bang was not an explosion of material THROUGH Space, it was an expansion OF Space. IOW, if u pooch:

How can Abdul say that HE is the center of the Dunia when everyone knows that I am the center of the Dunia?

Sadly the answer is "Both are at the center". The Center is exactly your center. And your extremities. And 4 billion Light Years away.
Which brings me to my point: There is Quantum Entanglement (why not?) between atomic particles in Galaxies separated by 4 billion light-years.
Which means, if Abdul burps on a Galaxy 4BLY away, you may burp INSTANTLY (if not smell Abdul), not 4bY later. The concept of Space-Time linked through speed of light, just became a lot less significant. Light is just a slightly less sluggish form of information propagation than sound.

IOW, there is no need to travel. If want to be, say, in Andromeda, well, u r already there.

[Dileep]

Isn't it like saying one cent burgers can be grown in factories, after someone spent a million dollars to grow muscle tissue in a petri dish?

And I have a different stoopid question. How would you store a photon? What my hair brain understand is that you create a pair of entangled photons Abdul and Rashid. You keep Abdul at your home, and send off Rashid to your evil 6th coujin living across the khyber pass. Your hope is that you pinch Abdul's ear here, Rashid will cry at the new place instantly. It is like the first lesson in telegraphy of Thomas Edison of Aluva (The phamous analogy of a long dog)

The queschun is: Does this work only once? ie, you pinch Abdul's ear once, Rashid cries, but the link is lost. OR.. can you keep on doing this for some long time, at least till the boys reach poobah-erty?

If it is the first case, then it is like sending a letter with a cry symbol across the khyber. You send one bit of information per photon. The only useful purpose would be to synchronize an event, like doing id namaaz at the precise moment. You can't instantly let the coujin know that Aamina, your 9th waiph gave birth to a future martyr.

If it is the second case, how do you keep the photon alive, and still extract information from it? I can't figure it. To detect a photon, you need to let it hit a target, and transfer its energy into something. Right?

I don't understand fizziks. It became so, after sitting through the class of prof "physikan" (that is the mallu pet name to the lone physics teacher who taught the "Injineering fizziks" to us abduls using a syllabus originally written by Newton). Also, he lectured only on "Interference" (Without much interference, since we are all fresh moustache-less first years onlee) and let the rest of the syllabus as "Assignment"

So, I claim license to ask stoopid qweschuns.

[UlanBatori]

That is berfectly abbrobriate in this dhaga. Clearly we are way beyond EkPathar etc in our advances, though to his credit, Ek suspected that something of this sort might turn up. "Information" is a catchword used to include all forms of matter and energy. For instance, if Abdul brings down a lathi on Rashid's butt at a velocity of 20m/s, that is also "information" transmittal. If you can convey "information" to say, the START button of a mijjile across the Dunia, that can cause drastic consequences. Also, to form Houri Ayesha at a specific location in say, Andromeda Galaxy, all u need to do is provide information to C, O, H, N and a few other atoms on how to arrange themselves. And we are saying that it is possible to do this "action at a distance". My point is that this is a very important breakthrough at the interface between mere "pissiks" and "mysticism" etc. At least, one can no longer dismiss many strange occurrences and reports as nonsense. Even "rebirth" may be something different than what we imagined: the piskik info might come long after birth, it might come in a flash.

[UlanBatori]

The other implication of the Chinese satellite demo is pointing accuracy through atmospheric turbulence and refractive index gradients: there is some bragging there by the cheen ingineers about that. If they can do this with a low-amplitude signal, they can also do it with a very high amplitude burst immediately following target confirmation. So it was a demo of Boost Phase Intercept sat weapon CEP.

Note that weapon need not be in Space, so no violation of Space Weapons Treaty. A ground-based source can be used.

[ramana]

negi, I know one PhD guy who is working on optical computing and implied its this Quantum computing. let me ask him about all this.

[Dipanker]

I find this utterly and truly mind boggling that a deep learning convolutional neural network program can teach itself to play chess in 4 hours tabula rasa (from scratch and without any prior domain specific built in knowledge) and beat the world best dedicated/conventional chess playing program Stockfish ( rating 3400+, ~600 points higher than Magnus Carlsen, the current world champion, rating 2800+) hands down 28 - 0 in a 100 game match ( 72 draws ) without losing a a game!

Google's AlphaZero Destroys Stockfish In 100-Game Match

Chess changed forever today. And maybe the rest of the world did, too. (I agree this is evil!)

A little more than a year after AlphaGo sensationally won against the top Go player, the artificial-intelligence program AlphaZero has obliterated the highest-rated chess engine.

Stockfish, which for most top players is their go-to preparation tool, and which won the 2016 TCEC Championship and the 2017 Chess.com Computer Chess Championship, didn't stand a chance. AlphaZero won the closed-door, 100-game match with 28 wins, 72 draws, and zero losses.

Oh, and it took AlphaZero only four hours to "learn" chess. Sorry humans, you had a good run.

That's right -- the programmers of AlphaZero, housed within the DeepMind division of Google, had it use a type of "machine learning," specifically reinforcement learning. Put more plainly, AlphaZero was not "taught" the game in the traditional sense. That means no opening book, no endgame tables, and apparently no complicated algorithms dissecting minute differences between center pawns and side pawns.
...

Paper by the authors of this program:
Mastering Chess and Shogi by Self-Play with a
General Reinforcement Learning Algorithm

[tandav]

A paradigm shift... I wonder is this Neural net similar to the Neural net I coded back in 1996 which could not differentiate ass from head from data since I had exactly 20 data points to "train" it. But a fantastic achievement. We are living in an era of exponential improvements in "intelligence".

[Dipanker]

^ I am guessing more or less, the difference being the number of intermediate layers, more the number of layers better the learning. Of course additional layers also demands additional computing power. Kaggle website has interesting data sets available for practicing machine-learning/data-science algorithms. I had luck with applying CNN to couple of image recognition data sets with the model recognizing upto 93% - 98% images correctly.

[Arjun]

It was a CNN + Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS) at each step of the game....they seem to have mastered incremental training as well as evolutionary improvement in the game strategy.

Will be interesting to see how effectively this can be generalized to real world situations, beyond game-play. On the surface, it does seem to be a big move towards the larger goal of AGI.

[tandav]

Apart from Google's deep Mind which Indian group is working on such ideas. My understanding is China is actively pursuing domination in this area. The first mover advantage of having access to large datasets is one aspect which Chinese teams have an advantage with their lack of privacy norms. The Tabula Rasa ability of AI may make this irrelevant.

I spent the last couple of days just watching AlphaGo Stockfish matches which were played at a level that defied conventional wisdom. AlphaGo routinely sacrificed pieces for positional dominance and played with something that approached intuition. Note Stockfish is rated 3340 ELO and AlphaGo beats it W28-L0-D72 of course it appears that under Tabula Rasa AlphaGo actually created its own opening theory whereas Stockfish opening theory was turned off.

[SriKumar]

https://www.chess.com/news/view/google- ... game-match

Some comments in the comments section are interesting: google bought Deep Mind in 2014/2015.
THe number of games played was around 1300 of which alpha0 lost 24 games. won 318. Per the commentator.
The info released focuses on just 100 of the 1300 games (are these the most recent of the 1300, if so, this is all that matters since it would have learnt from its losses).
It does not seem like it learnt from the games with Stockfish, learnt only from self-play games.
'Opening Tables' were not provided to stockfish.

[NRao]

An 8th Planet Is Found Orbiting a Distant Star, With A.I.’s Help

AI help came from Google.

Knowing Tensor Calculus helps immensely.

[UlanBatori]

From the above, a classic example of how NASA etc hype themselves.

“It’s kind of cool to see which one will be proven next,” said Jessie Dotson, Kepler’s project scientist at NASA.

What a nail-biter of a thriller!

[Neshant]

[ramana]

BBC has a news report video on a plastic ventilator to save children with pneumonia

LINK


Another is on solar power in villages in Nepal:

LINK

[Neshant]

22-year-old's 3-D scanner can diagnose heart diseases in 90 seconds

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/08/health/3 ... index.html

(CNN)

Shrivastava says his company's scanner, called Faraday, can dramatically speed up that process, do it more accurately and make it more comfortable for the patient. It uses artificial intelligence to create thousands of 3-D maps of a patient's heart to tell doctors what is, or isn't, causing chest pain.

A system of algorithms in the company's CardioFlux software analyzes the magnetic data into maps that indicate problems like coronary artery disease or ischemia, a lack of blood flow often caused by a buildup or blockage in an artery.

Shrivastava's team's method is noninvasive. There aren't needle pricks and blood draws. "The beauty of magnetic fields is, they are undistorted by the lungs, by the skin, so the signal you're getting is very high-fidelity. It's very pure," he said. "So you can hold sensors right above the chest and still get that high-quality signal. No radiation. No contact. No nothing."

Usually, a chest pain patient needs to take their shirt so a nurse can smear cold gel across their chest or place sticky adhesives with electrodes on their skin. But the Genetesis device would make those processes unnecessary. And a nurse or technician can perform the whole test in about 90 seconds.

[SaiK]

Serious quantum computers are finally here. What are we going to do with them?
Hello, quantum world.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6102 ... world/amp/

[UlanBatori]

A pooch to the gentle Alt-Scientists:

Having read Scientific Mongolian, I now consider myself an Expert on Dark Matter and Dark Energy. So as I read it the "evidence" cited for DM is that the rotation speed of some galaxies is far more than can be explained by their calculated mass. So my pooch is very simple. The Gravitational Fauj for a 2-bady prablem is considered to be GMm/r^2 where M and m are the two masses and r the distance between their mass centers. G is considered the Gravitational Constant.

If the force is less than what is expected, four things could be wrong: (without getting into these Dark Matter superstitions):
a) M
b) m
c) r
d) G

Trouble is that I think M and m are derived from observing the rotation, assuming a value for G. No idea how r is measured, I assume that they account for graviational lensing bending the light? Based on the calculated force of gravity? Which is wrong?

But all else aside, how do they know G is really constant where M comes from, say a Black Hole at the center of the Galaxy? Perhaps G is a weak function of something else which may become really large in certain places?

Please advise. If I am right, out goes most of the funding for the pissiks boondoggle and Scientific Mongolian will have to go to writing about Preferred Worms in Yak Dung or such topics of more Practical Interest. As Pythagoras' Sponsors advised him to do instead of playing with 3 sticks.

[ArjunPandit]

UBji, I had similar thoughts to begin with. Your yak dung is not wrong, just less popular to the dark dung popular these days. Based on what little i read, the jury is not out yet and fashion will keep on shifting till a new Einstien arrives at the stage

[UlanBatori]

Coincidence or Karma, but right after I posted that I read an article in Scientific Mongolian that said exactly this: That the Universal Law of Gravitation ain't Universal. Advances pretty convincing evidence, but does not give any simple correction. Apparently there is a thing called MOND: Modified Newtonian Dynamics, started by an Israeli scientist in 1983.

Anyway, I think Physics has gone bonkers trying to imagine quantum bits of Space etc. The articles in Scientific Mongolian have been getting weirder and weirder, like ppl writing about The Fine Clothes Of The Emperor and outdoing each other in detailed nonsense.

They have a serious problem conceptualizing the Black Hole, but they write as if they have complete Math solutions for the interior workings - and use "as happens in Black Hole" to "explain" other things. This MOND thing seems much more more straightforward. But I still cannot conceptualize how an electromagnetic field can exist across a vacuum so I have a long way to go.

Where I am going with all this, is that the problem is the 80% of the human brain that is also not accessible. We simply cannot comprehend some (too many) things. Maybe they can be sensed by the brain without coming through any of the traditional sensing modes. Divya Dristhi IOW.

[ArjunPandit]

Coincidence or Karma, but right after I posted that I read an article in Scientific Mongolian that said exactly this: That the Universal Law of Gravitation ain't Universal. Advances pretty convincing evidence, but does not give any simple correction. Apparently there is a thing called MOND: Modified Newtonian Dynamics, started by an Israeli scientist in 1983.

This is not as mainstream as DM/DE are popular, for reasons you rightly capture

Anyway, I think Physics has gone bonkers trying to imagine quantum bits of Space etc. The articles in Scientific Mongolian have been getting weirder and weirder, like ppl writing about The Fine Clothes Of The Emperor and outdoing each other in detailed nonsense.

Won't comment upon emperor naked, but will have to say that at that level it is more about imagination these days, which as you say is getting weirder.

They have a serious problem conceptualizing the Black Hole, but they write as if they have complete Math solutions for the interior workings - and use "as happens in Black Hole" to "explain" other things. This MOND thing seems much more more straightforward.

If it were that straightforward, it would have been the candidate

But I still cannot conceptualize how an electromagnetic field can exist across a vacuum so I have a long way to go.

. True, i guess one stop in that journey would be no-bill prize. Perhaps you can give a speech like ombaba did in 2009. Who knows you might get no-bill prize and after that you can torpedo everything

Where I am going with all this, is that the problem is the 80% of the human brain that is also not accessible. We simply cannot comprehend some (too many) things. Maybe they can be sensed by the brain without coming through any of the traditional sensing modes. Divya Dristhi IOW.

[/quote]
You stupid regressive backward, you paid teen guna lagan to us and now talk about DivyaDrishti. Settle for doordarshan only.

[ArjunPandit]

ok on a serious note, with a little bit of time with wiki aunty through googlemala swami
1. MOND seems to be more succesful in explaining the rotation curves (rotational speed v/s distance from center of galaxy)
2. MOND doesnt provide a proper cosmological model, esp it doesnt explain
a. Galactic clusters
b. faster than expected expansion

Not to forget that some geniuses are also saying that the additional gravitational force that comes in play at lower acceleration, as per MOND, is actually consistent with dark matter which provides this force.
All I am hoping is to live long enough to see the next Einstein come and end all this. Who knows he might be from ulan bataar, or might be a machine

[ArjunPandit]

on a lighter note if DM/DE goes away, what will happen to the rest of 85% of universe

[vijayk]

Glad I visited this dhaga and saw some real discussions:

I read in some string theory book that
1. There are possibly universes in other dimensions (multiverse) which we can't see just like dot trapped in 2-dimensional sheet can't access dot on 2nd parallel sheet.
2. We can't see these universes but feel effects of their gravity since gravity can cross dimensions
3. There are 10/11 dimensions according to string theory

Did this theory go anywhere

[UlanBatori]

vijayji, that is part of my deep observation from the vacuum between my ears (no comment on Dark Matter pls). The theories are plumbing new extremes of absurdity like Emperor's Clothes made of Transparent Matter (many argue for re-naming Dark Matter Transparent ??? because it cannot be sensed by any human senses: neither sight nor touch. Perfect analogy to Emperor's Clothes.

I recently heard a lucid explanation of why String Theory is called String Theory. It's like this: Mullah Einstein copied the garbage of Mullah Planck and bought into the Quan Tummullah theory to get his stuff published in The Journal Of The Imperial Sartorial Society. Somewhere there I have heard that the differences between energy levels are mapped to frequencies. How do you explain Frequency to a sponsor? You relate it to a violin string vibrating. Hence String Theory.

Aha! Now I am expert. I can extend the above to win the Mullah Nobel Soosai-Vest-Material Prize.
Violin strings tend to spring and curl around each other: Hence Multi-Dimensional. N strings? N dimensions.

All the articles in Sc. Mong. start out with pics of these two goats, and come across faux-casual as in

"I was sitting and fa*ting in a coffee shop in the Swiss Alps when my co-author scratched out these equations on a napkin...But Mullah Goatbeard of Lahore U pointed out that. this violated the Equations of the M-dimensional model of Special Relatives.

Immediately i have this vision of Einstein sitting in a den surrounded by sheets of paper filled with long derivations with strange Math symbols that bring back those nightmares. This is the terror tactic intended by the authors, no doubt.

Ha! I say, Time to call their bluff. Seriously, AP: Look up Vortex Models. The most basic is the Solid Body Rotation model. Induced velocity however, is 1/r fallof. Gravitation dictates 1/r^2 falloff. But there are other vortex models such as Lamb, Goat, Camel, etc. What happens if you are not quite in the Potential region of a gravitational vortex? Also, the "2-D ness" of a BH merely indicates a vortex combined with a sink. The vortex rotation axis is determined by the first instability to grow (why a sink can empty rotating clockwise or anticlockwise).

So none of these "mysteries" of Galaxies stands up to simple thought. (won't comment about LIGO or there will be renewed Fatwas to ban me)