Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 20 Feb 2019 02:11

New Regiment of Artillery thread started with excellent reference info below.

Thanks to BRF Members --> Ramana and Rupak for all their help.

Mods: Please update list below, as and when a new milestone is reached or updates need to be added. Thank You.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6651&start=4800

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History of the Artillery Corps

The formal history of the Artillery Corps dates back to the formation of Bombay Artillery in 1827 and is nearly 200 years old. However the use of artillery guns in the Indian subcontinent is much prior to that. Gunner's Day is celebrated annually on September 28th and the motto of the Corps is Sarvatra Izzat-o-Iqbal (Everywhere with Honour and Glory). The HQ of the Regiment of Artillery is in Nashik, Maharashtra. The Regiment of Artillery has been decorated with 1 Victoria Cross, 3 Vir Chakra, 1 Yudh Seva Medal, 19 Sena Medal and 1 Shaurya Chakra.

The regimental insignia is a gun with the Star of India above it.

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Artillery Corps Organization

There are 185 tube artillery regiments in the Regiment of Artillery. Each artillery regiment consists of 18 guns in total and is further divided into three batteries of six guns each.

By 2024, 45 regiments will convert to 809 artillery guns of various types. These include --->

• 114 x 155mm/45 calibre Dhanush towed artillery gun
• 300 x 155mm/45 calibre Sharang towed artillery gun
• 145 x 155mm/39 calibre M777 towed artillery gun
• 150 x 155mm/52 calibre ATAGS towed artillery gun
• 100 x 155mm/52 calibre K-9 Vajra self propelled howitzer

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Artillery Corps Strength

Towed Artillery
• 155mm/52 calibre ATAGS ---> 2 in service undergoing user trials and 150 guns on order
• 155mm/45 calibre Dhanush ---> 6 in service undergoing user trials, 114 being procured with a total production run of 414 guns
• 155mm/45 calibre Sharang ---> 300 M-46 being up-gunned from 130mm to 155mm
• 155mm/39 calibre FH77/B ---> 410 acquired and will be replaced by the Dhanush
• 155mm/39 calibre M777 ---> 2 in service undergoing user trials + 143 on order. Production at the rate of 5 per month.
• 130mm/52 calibre M-46 ---> 600 in service
• 105mm Indian Field Gun ---> 1,700 in service and being upgraded with digital FCS and INS to extend range up to 30 km with bleed base
• 105mm Light Field Gun ---> 700+ in service and ongoing, but unknown upgrade

Self-Propelled Artillery
• 155mm/52 calibre K9 Vajra ---> 10 acquired + 90 more being assembled in India. Replacing the FV433 Abbot SPG and the 2S1 Gvozdika SPG

Rocket Artillery
• 214mm Pinaka Mk1 Multi Barrel Rocket Launcher ---> 54 in service
• 214mm Pinaka Mk2 Multi Barrel Rocket Launcher ---> Entering Service
• 214mm Pinaka Mk3 Multi Barrel Rocket Launcher ---> Under Development
• 300mm BM-30 Smerch Multiple Barrel Rocket Launcher ---> 42 in service
• 122mm BM-21 Grad Multiple Barrel Rocket Launcher ---> 150+ in service and being replaced by Pinaka Mk1

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 20 Feb 2019 02:13

I will be adding more to this. Give me some time. Mods, please add to list - as you see fit - as it is not complete. All strength numbers are from wiki chacha. So please amend/advise if you have more up-to-date info.

The first post in this thread is only for reference based on open source information. I do not need to say this, but I will for the sake of clarity - no classified information please. Nobody cares, other than the enemy.

I have left some old artillery pieces out i.e. the 122mm/38 calibre D-30. They are being being replaced by the up-gunned M-46 I believe.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Feb 2019 02:48

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1097880139160080384 ---> India’s Ordnance Factory Board receives bulk production order for 114 Dhanush towed 155mm artillery pieces — the indigenised/improved Bofors FH-77B.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Feb 2019 04:07

Rakesh This dated article from The Week
Shots on Target Finally

Says there 169 regiments to be changed out to 155mm.

And wiki article says 414 Dhanush to be procured.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhanush_howitzer

M777 rate of production is 5/month.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 20 Feb 2019 04:23

With regards to the total number of artillery regiments, I think you and Rupak are basically saying the same thing.

See Rupak's post ---> viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6651&p=2321957#p2321957

Now as per the article from The Week, 169 artillery regiments were to be converted to 155mm guns. I am assuming the variance of 20 regiments are the MBRL regiments + other artillery regiments not converting to 155mm guns.

With regards to the Dhanush, I have made the change. Please check.

With regards to the M777, I have made the change as well. Please check. Do you know when the production run started?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Feb 2019 04:35

Or the 20 regiments will have the 105 mm IFG for deployment in mountain areas.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 20 Feb 2019 04:43

Yes possibly.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 20 Feb 2019 08:33

Admiral since there is some much talk of armour and pakistani DCB's can we have a Engineers - News and Discussion topic as well.
Armour will do didly squat without the Engineers...

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 20 Feb 2019 10:33

ks_sachin wrote:Admiral since there is some much talk of armour and pakistani DCB's can we have a Engineers - News and Discussion topic as well.
Armour will do didly squat without the Engineers...

Sachin Saar, in my profile is my email. Can you email me please?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 20 Feb 2019 10:40

Rakesh sir, are we looking to replace Smerch already?

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 21 Feb 2019 10:23

Not sure if posted here https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dzx0HWIXcAMKuTp.jpg
Bulk production order of Dhanush

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Feb 2019 10:43

So what is the time line for delivery of these 114 guns?

mody · Post by **mody** » 21 Feb 2019 17:23

Admiral saab, you missed 180 nos. 155mm/39 cal? soltam upgrade of M46 guns. Please add these to the first post. Also, Smerch is not going to be replaced by Pinaka-III. It will complement. Smerch is a recent buy. I thought the number of Smerch systems purchased was 36 and not 62. Was there a follow up order?

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 22 Feb 2019 11:03

155mm/39 calibre FH77/B ---> 410 acquired and will be replaced by the Dhanush

First time I'm hearing about this... I thought they were just going to upgrade the original bofors (of course some Dhanush lineage is expected as it will be done be OFB).

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Feb 2019 11:38

Aditya_V wrote:So what is the time line for delivery of these 114 guns?

Old thread had the schedule. Will dig up tomorrow.

mody · Post by **mody** » 22 Feb 2019 16:25

abhik wrote:
155mm/39 calibre FH77/B ---> 410 acquired and will be replaced by the Dhanush
First time I'm hearing about this... I thought they were just going to upgrade the original bofors (of course some Dhanush lineage is expected as it will be done be OFB).

I doubt Dhanush will be replacing the original FH77Bs. More likely once the Dhanush production is over, the original Bofors will be upgraded to the Dhanush standard by OFB. Perhaps only about 250-300 guns might be upgraded (speculation). A few have been cannibalized for spares, over the years.
Even for the Dhanush, after production of the first batch of 114 guns is over, the next lot of 300 guns might be Dhanush-52, 155mm/52 cal version.
The prototype for the same is ready. The testing will likely commense once the production of the 155mm/45 cal version stabilizes and the internal testing by OFB is satisfactory.

mody · Post by **mody** » 22 Feb 2019 16:35

Also the numbers for Pinaka MK1 seem to be doubtful. As per Wiki, 4 regiments should be in service by now and an additional order of 6 regiments was cleared by DAC in 2016. Each regiment is supposed to have 18 launchers, plus reserves.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 23 Feb 2019 20:53

Artillery gun Dhanush to be made in Telangana’s Medak

HYDERABAD: It’s going to be a boom time for the Ordnance Factory in Telangana’s Yeddumailaram in Medak district. Inwhat could be giving thrust to the Make in India initiative, ..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Feb 2019 09:51

I don't know how this works. The first UET guns were made at GCF. Usually production line setup is and products qualified. Now starting the line afresh will lead to requalificationnas tooling and personnel.will be different.
I hope this is not another misstep by OFB.

dinesh_kimar · Post by **dinesh_kimar** » 24 Feb 2019 11:00

^ Saar, while you are right abt new line needs qualifying, it may not be very big issue.

AFAIK, the barrel forge and breech is made at OFB Kanpur.
A hammer forge (maybe from Austria?). And the furnaces for hardening and removal of barrel strain.

These were being sent to GCF, Jabalpur for assembly as Dhanush.

Same may now be diverted to OFB Medak, to optimise resources.
(Less severe qualification required as Parts from existing vendors, only change of mfg. site).

Recent news suggests that Jabalpur factory has its hands full in production of "Sharang", plus existing production like Carl Gustav, LFG/IFG, and batch production for servicing/maintenance of existing Army guns.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Feb 2019 11:08

Makes sense and could be spare capacity in OFB Medak.
Any transfer of mcg facility requires requalification is what was noticed in US.
Equipment and people.

The barrel and breech are remaining at Kanpur is good news.
Assembly is is a critical.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Feb 2019 19:51

mody wrote:Admiral saab, you missed 180 nos. 155mm/39 cal? soltam upgrade of M46 guns. Please add these to the first post.

Forgive this mango abdul, but Soltam upgraded the M46 as well? I thought that was cancelled?

India to Locally Upgrade 130mm M-46 Russian Artillery Guns to 36km Target Range
https://sputniknews.com/military/201803 ... y-locally/

The above article states that the Soltam deal was cancelled due to allegations of corruption

mody wrote:Also, Smerch is not going to be replaced by Pinaka-III. It will complement. Smerch is a recent buy. I thought the number of Smerch systems purchased was 36 and not 62. Was there a follow up order?

I just pulled that info out of wiki.

The wiki page on the Indian Army's equipment has it at 62 systems, but the wiki page on the Smerch has it at 42 systems. Do you have a link or source for 36 systems? I will change it o 42 for now.

I will remove the reference to Pinaka III replacing the Smerch. Thanks.

dinesh_kimar · Post by **dinesh_kimar** » 24 Feb 2019 20:13

^ Soltam upgraded 180 M-46 guns, sometime during Gen. JJ Singh's tenure.

They were blacklisted, and follow on order of 300 guns (total 480 planned in that phase) not gone through.

BTW Admiral Saab, can we select the mithai due to us ? Doodh peda? Champakali?

prashantsharma · Post by **prashantsharma** » 24 Feb 2019 21:06

Any pics of the 2S1 in the Indian Army? Couldn't find any through Google. In which year did we acquire them? Frankly was surprised to read it was in service with the Indian Army. Till date had only read about / seen the Abbot and Catapult in the SPG category.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Feb 2019 03:27

Wiki says 110 2S1 with India

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2S1_Gvozdika

mody · Post by **mody** » 25 Feb 2019 15:50

Rakesh wrote:
mody wrote:Admiral saab, you missed 180 nos. 155mm/39 cal? soltam upgrade of M46 guns. Please add these to the first post.
Forgive this mango abdul, but Soltam upgraded the M46 as well? I thought that was cancelled?

India to Locally Upgrade 130mm M-46 Russian Artillery Guns to 36km Target Range
https://sputniknews.com/military/201803 ... y-locally/

The above article states that the Soltam deal was cancelled due to allegations of corruption

mody wrote:Also, Smerch is not going to be replaced by Pinaka-III. It will complement. Smerch is a recent buy. I thought the number of Smerch systems purchased was 36 and not 62. Was there a follow up order?
I just pulled that info out of wiki.

The wiki page on the Indian Army's equipment has it at 62 systems, but the wiki page on the Smerch has it at 42 systems. Do you have a link or source for 36 systems? I will change it o 42 for now.

I will remove the reference to Pinaka III replacing the Smerch. Thanks.

Soltam upgraded 180 M46 guns to 155/39 caliber. At the time also OFB had shown its own version of the upgrade as well. It suffered a barrel burst during testing and Soltam was chosen for the upgrade. The actual plan was for 600 guns to be upgraded. 180 was the 1st batch, to be followed by another 420. Soltam got blacklisted subsequently and the follow on order was scrapped. Now it has been given to OFB for 300 guns, as Sharang.
The 180 upgraded Soltam guns are in active service.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Feb 2019 18:12

I have seen the soltam regt.'s in strange places, serving as div. arty regt. One of those I suspect was the first such unit to be raised

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 26 Feb 2019 10:21

^^ Soltam are definitely active, just their range is short of advertised range.

prashantsharma · Post by **prashantsharma** » 27 Feb 2019 00:05

Yes, i had already noticed that ... as do a few other websites (mostly inconsequential ones) ... but I highly doubt it ... would have surely seen or heard more of them if they had really been in Indian Army service...

ramana wrote:Wiki says 110 2S1 with India

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2S1_Gvozdika

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Feb 2019 02:01

Did or does OFB make 122 mm shells?

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 27 Feb 2019 06:57

prashantsharma wrote:Yes, i had already noticed that ... as do a few other websites (mostly inconsequential ones) ... but I highly doubt it ... would have surely seen or heard more of them if they had really been in Indian Army service...

ramana wrote:Wiki says 110 2S1 with India

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2S1_Gvozdika

Confirmed with an Arty officer.
We don't have these. The closest we could have come to would have been a demo in India.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Feb 2019 05:35

Ok. Man have ensured Arty is cut to the bone.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 01 Mar 2019 16:10

2 regiments of abbots + the 2 or 3 regiments of catapaults was all we had.

ParGha · Post by **ParGha** » 03 Mar 2019 20:28

To put it in perspective, the Bengal and Madras Native Horse Artillery and Rocket Troops were disbanded as early as the 1830s -- well before the Sepoy Mutiny of 1857 (Bombay Army never had a native horse artillery component). After the 1857 Mutiny, even the native field artillery regiments were completely disbanded and only a few mountain artillery batteries were retained. Only the war clouds of World War II forced the British to re-establish Indian field artillery and coastal artillery regiments. Sometimes I wonder if this had an enduring impact on Indian doctrine regarding the role of self-propelled artillery?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Mar 2019 07:20

looks like OFB has been cleared to produce the Electronic Point Detonation Fuze (PDF) to replace the M 572
The first batch was proofed successfully.
this will help replace the mechanical PDF M 572.
The BEL Pune facility has license mfg of similar fuzes from Israel.

The MoD report for 2017-2018 mentions this PDF and also the smart artillery shell aka PGK shell.

So we can soon expect trials of the PGK and then user trials.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 09 Mar 2019 20:40

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 10 Mar 2019 13:03

What time has it been since confirmed order, few weeks tops? And already Dhanush is rolling out of assembly lines

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 10 Mar 2019 15:58

As per the video, OFB Jabalpur produced it. Earlier news had said that these will be produced at Medak in Telangana.

Are they creating two lines? Or this video is of previous piece used for testing?

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 10 Mar 2019 16:12

^^ GCF Jabalpur has been handling Dhanush project since inception. Medak iirc is BMP line.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 10 Mar 2019 21:13

I posted this in the Balakot thread and it really needs to be here:

1. An order for 114 Dhanush have been placed, but according to the Government Gun Carriage Factory (GCF), the IA needs over 400.
2. Light weight and highly mobile.
3. It has a range of 38 KM and is 45 calibre. Bimodular loading/charging system for fast loading that doesn't exist in the Bofors gun.
4. Inertial Navigation System (INS - hopefully it can incorporate GAGAN and probably will), enhanced day/night vision camera and muzzle velocity radar (this is needed for accurate ranging - very smart of BEL). Knowing muzzle velocity accurately can pinpoint where the shell will explode allowing the use of shells with specific munitions - fragmenting, FAE, or NBC.
5. The enemy will shiver in front of the Dhanush.

The GCF should be cranking these out like cookies. Make 4000 of them and sell them around the world. Make in India and combat tested in the toughest places on earth!