US Election Watch Thread 2024

[disha]

The world's oldest democracy is heading for a tumultuous election.

The US elections 2024 will be bereft without the cheating and fraud that usually accompanies it.

As the largest democracy, India has the responsibility to objectively document all instances of cheating and fraud and anti-democratic activities in the US Elections. The US elections need to be observed and documented.

Also this will serve as a source of information whenever any US official talks about freedom and democracy in the largest and most diverse democracy in the world.

Mods, please request to keep this thread.

[ramana]

This is very timely thread. US is in an omphalos of confusion and strife. Need to point out state of US democracy as they kept non stop barrage via Blinking idiots and Garchettys.

[sanman]

^^<rushes to look up omphalos>

This will be a very critical election indeed - for Americans and the rest of the world

[KL Dubey]

Reposting a properly referenced post I made in another "US" thread, with new header comments. I don't expect much intelligible/reasoned/properly referenced responses from the usual suspects, but here it is FWIW if anyone else has objective thoughts.

Fake (or ineligible) votes will likely be in the thousands, i.e., irrelevant unless the margin of victory dwindles to < 5000 votes. But voter suppression tactics used for decades by white (and mostly republican) politicians are targeted at preventing millions of voters from voting. This type of tactics is NOT practiced in deeply "red" or deeply "blue" states, rather it is practiced in states where the "reds" still have a hold on the legislature but the population is diversifying rapidly and major areas have turned/are turning "blue".

As far this presidential election goes, the states to watch for voter suppression are:

GA
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ ... ligibility
https://www.naacpldf.org/naacp-publicat ... sion-bill/
https://naacp.org/articles/naacp-urges- ... on-program

NC
https://naacp.org/articles/naacp-leads- ... h-carolina

AZ
(in this case, the USA supreme court struck down most of the voter suppression laws in 2024)
https://www.democracydocket.com/news-al ... sion-laws/
https://azsos.gov/news/391

TX is the grandmother of voter suppression tactics, but I'm passing that by since it is still not a close enough contest in 2024. The red/blue gap is barely 5-6% though, which is unprecedented. It may come into play in the 2028 election.

Reposted content below:

*************

For decades, white politicians (republicans and erstwhile "southern democrats") have practiced terrifying levels of voter suppression of what is called in India as "weaker sections of society" (in the US context, groups like blacks, latinos, women, first nations, low-income people, etc).

The 2020 election was a "wave election" to an extent, with a lot of these suppressed folks being empowered to vote by mail-in...anger against the Trump sarkar and its performance compounded Bhaidanwa's victory. These same voter suppression artists are now wailing when they are on the business end of the stick. **Added note: a "wave" is different from a "landslide" election. A "wave" means a significant shift in things like voter turnout, desire for change...a landslide is one possible result of a "wave" election, but not necessarily.**

There are always a small number of fake (or ineligible/invalid) votes, but they have nearly zero impact in presidential elections. The crazy claims from the Trump campaign on "massive voter fraud" have no merit and were dismissed promptly. The small numbers of actual fake votes that are dug up with great difficulty in some states are being used by some to claim much higher magnitudes of "fraud".

Ironically, the main "voter fraud" case that is still standing is that of Trump's attempt to get the state of GA to manufacture 12,000 votes in his favor. Similar irony is found by taking a deeper look at these Trump-origin "voter fraud" claims. It reveals a much darker picture in which these false "complainants/victims" actually turn out to be the election-rigging villains through history and enjoying the fruits thereof.

This article gives a good summary history of these hypocrites all the way down to the 2020s: https://nlihc.org/resource/history-voter-suppression

Whichever way one tries to cut it, this voter suppression agenda comes down mainly to racism: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ ... -tied-race

These are not just random media articles, these are well-researched summaries from organizations that are actually taking legal action.

I see these voter suppression tactics (including trying to advance "massive voter fraud" claims) as being among the last gasps of "white male dominance" in a country which is seeing massive demographic shifts + influx of undocumented aliens to do the dirty work that nobody else wants to do.

[bala]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is absolutely nothing "Objective" but opinion masquerading as facts. Brennancenter, naacp, etc are pro dumbocrats, not worth anything they write, certainly not facts but pure bias. BTW the original White rascist of US were the Dumbocrats with Klu Klux Klan association. This is a fact. The phrase "White male dominance" is a feeble attempt to pass the blame on to the Repubs. The repubs where the first national party to get black freedom in US. If you ask anyone in America, they are more comfortable working for a "White american boss" compared to an immigrant who brings in their ethnic bias and some of them are the worst kind you would ever see in the world. Women uniformly prefer working for a Male boss and they prefer a "White american boss". These are facts that cannot be whitewashed by media phrases and wokeism.

The गहरा राज्य Gehra Rajya is into sophisticated fraud which can never be proven since all the lawyers and judiciary are paid of by गहरा राज्य Gehra Rajya. All tracts are covered and there is no trail of fraud by the millions. It is similar to DMK / Karuna who has swindled so much money, that court judges in India remarked that his fraud is orders of magnitude sophisticated that cannot be proved. BTW DMK Karuna was a CIA backed agent of the US. The worst fraud committed are in blue state and surprisingly even Dumbocrat rulership dudes are getting convicted by courts (e.g. the one in NY recently) just goes to show how corrupt these characters really are in practice. Most Blue states have hordes of illegal immigrants who are on the voting rolls despite no citizenship. How else can one explain Kalifornia which was traditionally ruled by repubs like Ronald Reagan, etc but now the entire assembly is in the grips of Dumbocrats. Similar is the case with other blue states. These are facts.

[disha]

Fake (or ineligible) votes will likely be in the thousands, i.e., irrelevant unless the margin of victory dwindles to < 5000 votes. But voter suppression tactics used for decades by white (and mostly republican) politicians are targeted at preventing millions of voters from voting. This type of tactics is NOT practiced in deeply "red" or deeply "blue" states, rather it is practiced in states where the "reds" still have a hold on the legislature but the population is diversifying rapidly and major areas have turned/are turning "blue".

KLDubey'ji, I encourage & urge you to be objective. Calling out "red" vs "blue" and selective citing election fraud is not going to be helpful.

Please bring out all election fraud. And try to bring out the reasons for the fraud. For example, is the election system broken? Why is the voting percentage so low?

Going into white vs non-white just brings out your insecurities from the past. I understand those pain points. In fact, I have been a victim and possibly a bigger victim than you. But that is in the past.

You clearly have to unburden yourself from the past. Unburdened from what has been and look at what can be.

[disha]

US President has immense power and responsibility on their shoulders. Being the head of 50% of the world economy to a technological and nuclear power that only others can dream to achieve.

Of course, however broken their election system is, they feel free and sometimes even compelled to lecture others.

It is important to know who elects the US president. Do you want the US president to be elected by an illegal immigrant? Just like do you want an Indian PM to be elected by illegal Bangladeshis?

Also if you are a legal immigrant, and became citizen legally, do not you feel that voter fraud due to illegal voter id (illegal immigrants) drown your voice?

Here is the latest situation on voter id and illegal immigrants:

https://nypost.com/2024/06/14/us-news/h ... o-stop-it/

Every state but North Dakota, New Hampshire, Wisconsin and Wyoming gives applicants for either welfare benefits, driver’s licenses, or in some cases, mail-in ballots federal voter registration forms without demanding proof of citizenship.

There is currently no requirement on federal voting forms to provide proof of US citizenship, though it is illegal to falsely claim one is a citizen or for a non-citizen to cast a ballot in a federal election.

But millions of migrants with humanitarian parole, refugee or asylum status are eligible for benefits that would bring them to the offices where voter registration takes place.

Voting by illegals, in thousands where the race is tight will always make the entire election illegitimate. It is not an argument of data science. It is of faith.

Additionally:

Every state but North Dakota, New Hampshire, Wisconsin and Wyoming gives applicants for either welfare benefits, driver’s licenses, or in some cases, mail-in ballots federal voter registration forms without demanding proof of citizenship.

There is currently no requirement on federal voting forms to provide proof of US citizenship, though it is illegal to falsely claim one is a citizen or for a non-citizen to cast a ballot in a federal election.

But millions of migrants with humanitarian parole, refugee or asylum status are eligible for benefits that would bring them to the offices where voter registration takes place.

And this is important:

https://publicinterestlegal.org/wp-cont ... -FINAL.pdf

A study on thousands of voters illegally registered for vote. Please go through the data. It is comprehensive.

But federal prosecutions, state investigations and audits have shown in recent years that thousands of non-citizens are being registered.

In Georgia, one of several battleground states that delivered Biden his victory in the 2020 election, left-wing voter groups sued Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger earlier this year for trying to implement citizenship verification methods.

Broken Window of US Voter system:

In 1983, to make the elections transparent, the so called moter voter act was introduced. That is if you are registering for Driving licence at DMV, you can register for vote.

Motor Voter at 30: Time to Modernize Motor Voter is showing signs of wear. It has made American elections on one hand less secure, while on the other hand more transparent. It created unforeseen consequences and failures worse than the opponents imagined. After 30 years, it is time for Congress to do a serious and thoughtful reexamination of law. It has never been easier to register to vote and vote as it is in 2023. Yet, if an applicant fills out the federally mandated Motor Voter registration form, they must be registered to vote, period. States cannot seek documentary proof of citizenship before registering the applicant, unless the state goes through a complicated process of seeking federal approval. As it stands, only an honor system prevents foreign nationals from easily registering to vote (unless officials fail to notice the “NO” on the citizenship question).

And

At least 19 states and Washington, DC, also allow non-citizens to obtain driver’s licenses, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures, a move that Biden supported during his 2020 presidential campaign.

The situation is that with ~12 million (nearly 3% of US population) illegals and the ease of voter registration and voting, the next president might as well have been decided by the illegal immigrants. How much is that for legitamacy?

[disha]

The worst fraud committed are in blue state and surprisingly even Dumbocrat rulership dudes are getting convicted by courts (e.g. the one in NY recently) just goes to show how corrupt these characters really are in practice.

Hi Bala, can you please find the link of the NY fraud case? I had it for a while back (prior to start of this thread), but it is now gone. Not showing up in google search as well.

[bala]

The worst fraud committed are in blue state and surprisingly even Dumbocrat rulership dudes are getting convicted by courts (e.g. the one in NY recently) just goes to show how corrupt these characters really are in practice.

Hi Bala, can you please find the link of the NY fraud case? I had it for a while back (prior to start of this thread), but it is now gone. Not showing up in google search as well.

Hi Disha use DuckDuckGo.com instead of google chacha..

Eric Adams conviction

Earlier it was Robert Menendez of New Joisy on corruption.

[disha]

In Old English the meaning of Page is defined as: A page was a young male who served a person of rank, especially in the medieval period.

So the Hezbollah's who live in medieval period got pages, it did not mean that they got a young male to do "bachabaazi". The page was a message from hell where some of them ended up going as 1/72th houri of Osammy. Some were fortunate that they could not become 1/72th houri or dream of meeting their 72 houris.

Point is, even a simple low-tech device (by today's standard) was exploited to deliver a strategic blow to the Hezbollah's.

Here is an example from New HempShire, US where one would like to ask the simple question: Is the voter list in New HempShire already compromised?

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/0 ... s-00176615

...as the new company, WSD Digital, raced to complete the project, New Hampshire officials made an unsettling discovery: The firm had offshored part of the work. That meant unknown coders outside the U.S. had access to the software that would determine which New Hampshirites would be welcome at the polls this November.
...

The probe unearthed some unwelcome surprises: software misconfigured to connect to servers in Russia and the use of open-source code — which is freely available online — overseen by a Russian computer engineer convicted of manslaughter, according to a person familiar with the examination and granted anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about it.
...
New Hampshire officials say the scan revealed another issue: A programmer had hard-coded the Ukrainian national anthem into the database, in an apparent gesture of solidarity with Kyiv.

With some gems in the voter database and no way to ask the questions on the extent of damage and its mitigation, can the entire voter base in NH be trusted?

Many states lack a uniform or rigorous system to verify what goes into software used on Election Day and whether it is secure. When both state and federal officials have tried to bring greater attention to these flaws, they’ve had to contend with critics who resist “federalization” of state election processes.
...
...
In the worst-case scenario, hackers could manipulate a state’s voter list, adding fictitious people to the rolls, changing real voters’ information or directing voters to the wrong polling places on Election Day.

And I am not alone saying this. Here is the quote from an official

“The biggest challenge facing election administrators in this upcoming 2024 election cycle is trying to create a climate where we can restore the trust and confidence” in the election process

[disha]

Eric Adams conviction

Earlier it was Robert Menendez of New Joisy on corruption.

Thanks. Add to that the compromised voter database of New Hempshire and Vermont.

[saip]

Hi Bala, can you please find the link of the NY fraud case? I had it for a while back (prior to start of this thread), but it is now gone. Not showing up in google search as well.

Hi Disha use DuckDuckGo.com instead of google chacha..

Eric Adams conviction

Earlier it was Robert Menendez of New Joisy on corruption.

AFAIK in NY only Trump was CONVICTED and Eric Adams was INDICTED.

[Vayutuvan]

Conviction of Adams is coming. AOC supports the person next in line.

[Tanaji]

One other point is voter disenfranchisement. As one is aware the US is one of the countries in the world that has the highest proportion of people that are incarcerated as a proportion of its population. It is also another fact that US Justice system is inherently biased: it jails more people of colour and for longer duration for the same offence than whites.

Laws vary by state, but once one gets sentenced they lose their right to vote. Regaining that right is not automatic in a lot of states: at least 25 states will disenfranchise you if you have a criminal conviction ranging from 5 years to permanent depending on the crime. Some will let you vote automatically after release while some you have to apply which a lot dont due to bureaucratic overhead. This affects people of colour more.

One could argue that US deliberately targets blacks so that they get disenfranchised.

[vijayk]

[vijayk]

https://www.democracydocket.com/news-al ... uirements/
California Governor Signs Law to Ban Local Voter ID Requirements

[Jay]

https://www.democracydocket.com/news-al ... uirements/
California Governor Signs Law to Ban Local Voter ID Requirements

This is absolutely needed. Without this, every local county/city will have their own laws and they will effect state/federal elections. There is a reason why even the supreme court only recognizes Federal or State laws concerning voting rights in deference to article 1 of the constitution.

This prevents the cookoos from Republican party who only want white Christian as voting representatives and also the Berkeley commies who wants even the undocumented immigrants to vote. A good sensible move by the governor.

[bala]

Bonta said in a statement at the time the lawsuit was filed. “State election law already contains robust voter ID requirements with strong protections to prevent voter fraud, while ensuring that every eligible voter can cast their ballot without hardship. Imposing unnecessary obstacles to voter participation disproportionately burdens low-income voters, voters of color, young or elderly voters, and people with disabilities.”

The bolded part is where States allow illegals to vote. There is no such thing as robust voter ID requirements with strong protections to prevent voter fraud enforced by the state. You have to take their word and there is no independent means of verifying whether it is accurate or not. The गहरा राज्य Gehra Rajya is into such things. There are many people in the bay area Kalifornia who are disgusted with Dumbocrats but their voting does not get them their candidate in final results. This only means that fraud is committed in voter ID requirements. That is why the state is not enforcing any means of identification of the person who votes. All they have to do is say their name which is no means of identification. Kalifornai voting is basically fraud. So are other states that don't require ID. I see absolutely no harm in showing ID and being legit for voting purposes. The गहरा राज्य Gehra Rajya has made this into blatant fraud. No wonder Gov NUISANCE veto'ed the bill. Tis worse than a banana republic.

[Vayutuvan]

Last night's VP debate was interesting. Both came off well and even. I wish they were the presidential candidates instead of Harris and Trump. Both Vance and Walz seem to be bipartisan and have great ideas. Hope who ever the VP is come 2025, that man keeps the president in check. Fat chance but one can hope. Vance did slightly better than Walz even though the moderators were adversarial towards Vance.

So it has come down to Harris vs Trump. The VP debate didn't move the needle either way. McCain lost due to his VP pick. I was surprised that Biden won after he picked Harris.

Parkalam.

[Amber G.]

https://www.democracydocket.com/news-al ... uirements/
California Governor Signs Law to Ban Local Voter ID Requirements

This is absolutely needed. Without this, every local county/city will have their own laws and they will effect state/federal elections. There is a reason why even the supreme court only recognizes Federal or State laws concerning voting rights in deference to article 1 of the constitution.

This prevents the cookoos from Republican party who only want white Christian as voting representatives and also the Berkeley commies who wants even the undocumented immigrants to vote. A good sensible move by the governor.

Of course!
Posts about California making it illegal to require voter ID is misleading. The new law, signed by Governor Gavin Newsom, prohibits local governments from imposing voter ID requirements, (California law doesn't require voter ID at the state level - If you're voting for the first time after registering by mail and didn't provide a valid form of ID, you'll need to show identification -- Otherwise, California doesn't require voter ID. )California requires residents to be U.S. citizens, 18 years old, and not currently serving a prison term for a felony
(There's no evidence of widespread voter fraud in California . In fact, the state's attorney general and secretary of state sued some local entities for arbitrary voter ID requirement, citing lack of evidence for voter fraud)

California's law aims to prevent local governments from creating their own voter ID rules, which could lead to inconsistent and potentially discriminatory practices.

The state uses signature verification checks to confirm voter legitimacy, and additional safeguards are in place.
----
Meanwhile Federal court enjoins California law that "aims to regulate a broad spectrum of election related content that is 'materially deceptive,'" concluding that law "acts as a hammer instead of a scalpel, serving as a blunt tool that hinders humorous expression and unconstitutionally stifles the free and unfettered exchange of ideas which is so vital to American democratic debate.

[chanakyaa]

In theory, there is a federal law that makes it unlawful for non-citizens to vote in a federal election to elect US president, congress, senate etc. But this LAW is only applicable at the federal level, i.e., not state and local level. States have their own laws. Some states explicitly discourage non-citizens to vote and in many other states it is not explicit. Then on the implementation side, games are played with who gets added to the voter list and when etc. Irony is that non-citizens/illegals, technically, can't vote in the federal elections but these elections are conducted/governed/administered by state officials who can be beneficiaries of the votes of non-citizens/illegals (in many states, not all).

This situation in Arizona is a classic case of surgical work of artists. Arizona is a winner-take-all state.

Arizona has a winner take all allocation, meaning whichever candidate receives the highest number of votes receives all 11 electoral votes.

Unlike in India, all the winner has to do is beat the opponent by few votes to benefit from the votes of the entire state.

In 2020, Biden won Arizona by only 11,000 votes (Biden 1,672,143 vs. Trump 1,661,686).

Arizona Secretary of State Fontes says 218,000 voters affected by registration error (for some context, there are over 200K illegals in Arizona)

...
And now there are about 218,000.
That's the number of people that Secretary of State Adrian Fontes says are registered to vote but never provided the proof of citizenship legally required under a 2004 Arizona law. A week ago it was 97,928
...
Under the Supreme Court order, it is only after this year's election that officials will have to go through the list and determine whether there is proof of citizenship and, if not, what voters have to do ahead of the next election to get a full ballot. (which means the outcome is already decided)
...
In fact, the justices said any effort to strip people of their registration this close to an election would be illegal because they would not be entitled to "due process'' to prove their are, in fact, entitled to vote. (see the surgical precision, knowing exactly how argument around voter disenfranchisement will be framed)
...
(Now the plot)
It starts with a 2004 voter-approved law which said people can register to vote in Arizona only by providing "documented proof of citizenship.'' That can include birth records, passports, certain tribal documents and other recognized paperwork. But to simplify the process, that law says anyone who got a driver's license after 1996 was presumed to be a citizen. That's when a law was passed requiring proof of legal presence to get a license.
Anyone who had a license before then was grandfathered in. The problem is with people who either registered to vote after the 2004 law or sought to change their registration after moving. County election officials would query the Motor Vehicle Division database.
If the license was after 1996, then citizenship was assumed. Those with pre-1996 licenses were told to provide the citizenship proof.
But there's a glitch in MVD records.
If someone had gotten a duplicate license in, say, 1998, that was the date that got reported to the counties -- not the date of the original license. Ditto if they had changed their address.
But neither act required proof of citizenship.
Bottom line: MVD was telling election officials that people had post-1996 licenses -- meaning they had provided citizenship proof -- when they did not.

If anyone thinks there is no inside support for the artists, here ya go
Advocates rally to allow undocumented immigrants to get driver’s licenses

Additionally, the people sitting in license offices are not genius software programmers or nuclear scientists . To be fair, such attempts have failed, but all you need is few thousand votes difference to win.

[Jay]

If anyone thinks there is no inside support for the artists, here ya go
Advocates rally to allow undocumented immigrants to get driver’s licenses

Additionally, the people sitting in license offices are not genius software programmers or nuclear scientists . To be fair, such attempts have failed, but all you need is few thousand votes difference to win.

Chanakyaa ji, your own link has this to say about drivers license and voting.

The top criticism from detractors of the proposal is that allowing undocumented immigrants access to driver’s licenses will lead to voter fraud. But that ignores that registering to vote requires including a verifiable proof of citizenship. While the application for a driver’s license includes the option to register, it’s a crime for non-citizens to do so — a fact undocumented people are keenly aware of.

This is apples and oranges comparison and is what happens when one sees every immigration(legal/illegal) issue with a "voting" lens and only with a "voting" lens.

[Jay]

That Turning Point slide is False. Show me one state where you can vote without confirming your Citizenship and/or State ID?

[Vayutuvan]

(There's no evidence of widespread voter fraud in California . In fact, the state's attorney general and secretary of state sued some local entities for arbitrary voter ID requirement, citing lack of evidence for voter fraud) (Note 1)
...
----
Meanwhile Federal court enjoins California law that "aims to regulate a broad spectrum of election related content that is 'materially deceptive,'" concluding that law "acts as a hammer instead of a scalpel, serving as a blunt tool that hinders humorous expression and unconstitutionally stifles the free and unfettered exchange of ideas which is so vital to American democratic debate.(Note 2)

[img...]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GY7rVn1WkAA ... ame=medium[/img]

Note 1: Democrats outweigh Republicans by factor of two in CA, i.e. 67% are democrats and 33% are GOP. Immigrants - whether they are illegally voting or not - is irrelevant in CA as far as Presidential elections are concerned. CA democrats have an overwhelming presence in the house of representatives. Same with NY/NJ/WA/MN/IL which are deep blue.

Note 2: This is good. That slick/slimy/glib governor Newsom has been handed a rebuke.

[saip]

From all these discussions I learnt that one side is very corrupt but smart while the other side is very gullible and dumb. Election rigging is done by one side only and the other side is always the victim. Now I looked at FBI Directors who normally investigate these things. Surprisingly only ONE side appointed ALL the Directors to date. Then I looked at various indictments, convictions, jail terms of previous administrations. 123, 90, 35. But one side had 3,1,1 while the other side had the rest. Does not compute, does it?

[KL Dubey]

From all these discussions I learnt that one side is very corrupt but smart while the other side is very gullible and dumb. Election rigging is done by one side only and the other side is always the victim. Now I looked at FBI Directors who normally investigate these things. Surprisingly only ONE side appointed ALL the Directors to date. Then I looked at various indictments, convictions, jail terms of previous administrations. 123, 90, 35. But one side had 3,1,1 while the other side had the rest. Does not compute, does it?

This is my approximation of the "code" running in the minds of such posters:

1. The corrupt and smart side should be (interestingly) referred to as "dumbo"crats.

2. Express great concern about the < 0.1% of the 55-65% voter turnout possibly consisting of fake/ineligible votes, but no concern about how many of the 35-45% non-turnout were due to voter suppression.

3. Those who have meticulously tracked and fought against voter suppression tactics (millions-of-votes numbers) are obviously corrupt and also smart, i.e. must be "dumbo"crats ---> go to line 1.

This closed-loop logic essentially comprises the entirety of "understanding US election" for such posters.

[KL Dubey]

One could argue that US deliberately targets blacks so that they get disenfranchised.

There is a great deal of evidence and examples on various types of disenfranchisement (including voter suppression, which is by far the largest such practice). I have posted several easily accessible studies/summaries.

The underlying literature on this is voluminous.

Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=e ... BUSA&btnG=

[bala]

In this election, in Nov, 24, the biggest election fraud is going to be committed by गहरा राज्य Gehra Rajya in the US. They are going to use the illegal immigration of 20 million into US to accomplish the task. Many of the illegals are spreading out to various states. A small delta in swing states will be sufficient to declare the El Presidente of the US. Voter ID rolls are going to be tampered. No govt worker verifies signatures on mail in ballots. A lot of citizens of the US died during Covid and this will be used extensively by गहरा राज्य Gehra Rajya to fudge voter base. In many blue states the illegals are everywhere and they are housed in residential areas with massive state govt support. So they have legal addresses, driver license and more. Mail ballots will be sent and they will vote for this election. There are thousands of state appointed folks to deal with illegal immigrants and these गहरा राज्य Gehra Rajya officials will fill out ballots on their behalf and forge an appropriate signature. All it takes is a few thousand votes. State govt officials will swear there is no fraud in their state - how can they admit such a thing under their watch. But the गहरा राज्य Gehra Rajya have compliant officials in electoral offices who will do their abiding. All of them are going to vouch for the sanctity of their process otherwise they would be in jail.

Some nations like China have emptied out 75% of their wealthy powerful people and they have relocated to US, Canada, UK, etc. Massive amounts were paid to immigration touts and they have bought up houses and obtained citizenship. The elderly collect benefits like social security. Already social security is an albatross upon the US Exchequer and fraud is rampant. Young chinese children are in US schools. Everything looking legit. The CIA has power over these folks. Many top chinese PLA officials are compromised because their own relatives, nth wives are in the US. Their votes are गहरा राज्य Gehra Rajya dictated, a free votebank so to speak.

I have no faith for a free and fair election come this Nov, 24 in the US. No-upstairs Kamala will be El Presidente and voted by गहरा राज्य Gehra Rajya. Everything will be vouched for and sealed and stamped as legit. The number of crooks like lawyers, judges, officials will smile and look very pleased. The nature of the US will be forever changed by the गहरा राज्य Gehra Rajya who are ruthless, cunning, conniving ********.

[vijayk]

If there are concerns of voter intimidation, monitor and file cases. You can't use that an excuse to prevent citizenship checks for voter registration and Id check during voting. This whole system is geared for fraud.
These arguments are like this ... The criminal justice system is rigged against Blacks. So we Defund the Police and let criminals run amok. We will not file cases against criminals. We won't prosecute crime such as looting, raping, murders.
This nonsense has gone too far. There is no commonsense. Just ideological BS and propaganda.

Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=e ... BUSA&btnG=

Overall, 70.9 percent of eligible white voters cast ballots in
the 2020 elections, compared with only 58.4 percent of
non-white voters.3 Despite significant gains in overall voter
participation, the turnout gap between white and non-white
voters has gone virtually unchanged since 2014 and has in
fact grown since its modern-era lows in 2008 and 2012,
according to a recent Brennan Center analysis.4

This ridiculous conclusion that minorities don't vote because of intimidation is nonsensical. Even in affluent cities in states like Mass, non-white voters are not plugged into political system. They don't get involved in local elections because they don't like to participate (could be cultural). I have seen this in many Indians also. They never even once vote in local elections or join meetings. Many are not in tune with most of the issues that US political system talks ... abortion, gays, gay rights, guns because most of them work hard and only care about surviving financially and put their kids in good schools.

[chanakyaa]

...
2. Express great concern about the < 0.1% of the 55-65% voter turnout possibly consisting of fake/ineligible votes, but no concern about how many of the 35-45% non-turnout were due to voter suppression.
...

The underlying literature on this is voluminous.

Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=e ... BUSA&btnG=

KL Dubey ji, I agree with you. Not sure if the fake/ineligible votes are 1%, 0.1%, or 0.001% of total votes cast, but it is reasonable to believe that unaccounted legal votes from either voter suppression or vote disqualification on unethical/questionable technical grounds likely to be higher than the % of fake/ineligible votes. Agree, there should not be any great concern for either donkeys or elephants, because both are equally guilty, one for trying to reduce the vote count and other for growing the vote count (sam, daam, daand, bhed).

Let's see what 2024 brings. With respect to the news/allegations of the attempts to add of over 200K doubtful voters to the list in the State of Arizona, if true, the other side will have to work much harder to either get more warm bodes to the polling booth or suppress votes, looking at the 2020 razor thin margin.

[Amber G.]

I don't expect much intelligible/reasoned/properly referenced responses from the usual suspects, but here it is FWIW if anyone else has objective thoughts...

The sheer volume of misinformation spread by the 'usual suspects' is astonishing. Disregarding all that nonsense..

This is from Fox News: Breaking down the key details from Smith's latest court filing!
5 key details in special counsel Jack Smith's Trump election case filing

Note these legal court filing based on solid evidences

1. Smith's ‘factual proffer’

With private co-conspirators, the defendant launched a series of increasingly desperate plans to overturn the legitimate election results in seven states that he had lost—Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin

Trump's personal attorney told POTUS election fraud claims were ‘bulls---’
Smith claims that several people close to Trump had told the former president his claims of election fraud were "bulls---."

... in one conversation, an unnamed Trump attorney had told Trump that the campaign was "looking into his fraud claims and had even hired external experts to do so, but could find no support for them." { so much for their endless nonsense about 'rigged election' and 'voting fraud'}

"He told the defendant that if the Campaign took these claims to court, they would get slaughtered because the claims are all ‘bulls---,’" the filing states, with Smith claiming that a lawyer discussed with Trump the investigations and "debunkings on all major claims."

For example, the attorney allegedly told Trump that Georgia's audit disproved claims that votes had been altered.
Smith also claims a senior campaign adviser who spoke with Trump on a "daily basis" and had "informed him on multiple occasions that various fraud claims were false" had complained that Trump was losing his election lawsuits because his lawyers could not back up false claims about the election.

"When our research and campaign legal team can't back up any of the claims made by our Elite Strike Force Legal Team, you can see why we're 0-32 on our cases," the campaign adviser allegedly wrote.

"I'll obviously hustle to help on all fronts, but it's tough to own any of this when it's all just conspiracy s--- beamed down from the mothership." [/quote]

Here is, for example - (page 15 - How knowing falsity and just making numbers up -- and 'usual suspects here endlessly repeat those claims/nonsense /sign)


The brief is full of evidence that the feds would put forward at a Trump Jan. 6 trial. This one says Trump 'suggested that he would fight to remain in power regardless of whether he had won the election.

[Amber G.]

This evidence from the Special Counsel's brief is a reminder that Team Trump knew all along on that the fake GOP elector scheme wasn't legit. Even they called them 'fake' electors.

"The votes aren't legal under federal law"
"We would just be sending in 'fake' electoral votes"


From p. 142 of Jack Smith's filing:

"Upon receiving a phone call alerting him that Pence had been taken to a secure location, [PERSON 15] rushed to the dining room to inform [Trump] in hopes that the defendant would take action to ensure Pence’s safety. Instead, ..
Smith has evidence of what Trump was looking at on his phone while he was sitting at the White House watching TV during the afternoon of Jan. 6.. and did not care..
..
Let’s not forget:

1) Pence’s family was with him at the Capitol on J6.
2) Pence’s security detail were so worried for their safety they made goodbye calls to their families.

That day could have been much worse if the rioters had found Pence—and Trump couldn’t have cared less...

[Amber G.]

Must watch TV for those to understand actual issues about voter fraud instead of listening to endless abuses and absurd conspiracy theories..

This speech by Judge Matthew Barrett today in sentencing Tina Peters to 9 years for tampering with voter data was brilliant. What struck me most was that it almost word for word applies to Trump...

Link: https://twitter.com/i/status/1841927531500343563
Watch the full 13 minute version of the sentencing. .... if interested - it is very good...

(Tina Peters is described as Trump's hero (for "auditing" votes etc).. this post is against misinformation and fear-mongering:..

* Tina Peters wasn't auditing the vote. After a fair trial, she was found guilty of "three counts of attempting to influence a public servant, one count of conspiracy to commit criminal impersonation, first-degree official misconduct, violation of duty and failing to comply with the secretary of state"
* Her sentencing is not based on her speech but on being found guilty of criminal charges
* Her speech shows that she's unrepentant
* She was law-abiding until she... broke the law

(Many are calling a criminal a hero and a judge a monster but our judicial system is protecting the constitution)

[Mort Walker]

Jack Smith's filing is all politics. The DOJ has had this "evidence" since Jan. 2021. No charges were filed in DC federal court until Aug. 2023. Garland & Smith planned the filing for the election time. On such a serious matter, in order to disqualify Trump, the case should have been filed at the latest before the end of 2022. This is nothing more than a political witch hunt.

If Trump squeezes out a narrow victory with 5-20 electoral votes, and if those Democratic controlled states certify the election, there is very high probability that Kamala Harris as President of the Senate will not certify the election in Jan. 2025.

[KL Dubey]

If there are concerns of voter intimidation, monitor and file cases. You can't use that an excuse to prevent citizenship checks for voter registration and Id check during voting. This whole system is geared for fraud.

If one doesn't read, think, or understand, then everything can be easily dismissed as nonsensical/fraud. It's essentially a coping mechanism to deal with one's own ignorance/laziness/insecurity.

The many links I provided also include lawsuits and cases filed by multiple organizations, which have brough some results from the judiciary in several states.

Read some of the literature I cited, and understand what these "checks" have historically done to millions of Americans. It's not a joke. If a person is strongly discouraged/impeded from getting to a voting location by various suppression tricks/barriers/inconveniences, obviously the issue of voting check does not arise in the first place.

The situations in USA and India are very different.

[vijayk]

If there are concerns of voter intimidation, monitor and file cases. You can't use that an excuse to prevent citizenship checks for voter registration and Id check during voting. This whole system is geared for fraud.

If one doesn't read, think, or understand, then everything can be easily dismissed as nonsensical/fraud. It's essentially a coping mechanism to deal with one's own ignorance/laziness/insecurity.

The many links I provided also include lawsuits and cases filed by multiple organizations, which have brough some results from the judiciary in several states.

Read some of the literature I cited, and understand what these "checks" have historically done to millions of Americans. It's not a joke. If a person is strongly discouraged/impeded from getting to a voting location by various suppression tricks/barriers/inconveniences, obviously the issue of voting check does not arise in the first place.

The situations in USA and India are very different.

You keep on showing ignorance without reading what I wrote. That's how BS propaganda works.

1. Election fraud whether real or imaginary can be easily eliminated/propaganda of fraud defeated by easily verifying ID. Democrats use this vote suppression to prevent ID checks
2. I have personally voted in elections several times. No one ever asks for ID. If I go back to vote and say my name/precinct, they will let me vote as long as the second person is registered.
3. No one verified my citizenship when I registered. I just need to check that I am a citizen. I can get into trouble but with so much political brazenness on both sides, DAs/AGs are not prosecuting these crimes.
4. When a girl asked Obama if her dreamer friend can vote (without citizenship), he replied that they don't provide cross check data on citizenship implying she can vote without fear. He did not say she can vote but implied there is no need to fear deportation.

[KL Dubey]

"When our research and campaign legal team can't back up any of the claims made by our Elite Strike Force Legal Team, you can see why we're 0-32 on our cases," the campaign adviser allegedly wrote.

"I'll obviously hustle to help on all fronts, but it's tough to own any of this when it's all just conspiracy s--- beamed down from the mothership."

Yes. There is no substance/merit in these useless "voting fraud" claims from 2020. The evidence plainly suggests the opposite. That is why every judge that has seen these frivolous complaints has dismissed them. These are just boorish Trump tantrums ("tanTrumps") that his legal staff was forced to convert into lawsuits against their own judgment.

On the other hand, lawsuits against voter suppression tactics in states like GA, AZ, and others have had significant success in rolling back the "voter eligibility" laws brought by white-majority republican legislatures.

So I guess the judiciary is also completely corrupt now!

[KL Dubey]

1. Election fraud whether real or imaginary can be easily eliminated/propaganda of fraud defeated by easily verifying ID. Democrats use this vote suppression to prevent ID checks

Yeah, right! Like Bharat where millions of illegals *actually* present "voter ID" at the booth Or foreign money to be distributed to perfectly "legal and identified" voters as in LS 2024? Works wonderfully to prevent fraud, right ?

2. I have personally voted in elections several times. No one ever asks for ID.

You have to show your ID the first time. Give me your best guess: how many "fraud voters" are likely to be prior law-abiding voters that decide to commit fraud since they don't need to show their ID again? And what is the process by which such "legit" voters are suddenly willing to commit fraud for no clear benefit?

If I go back to vote and say my name/precinct, they will let me vote as long as the second person is registered.

Really? You seem very confident - have you done this before ? Or are you trying to mislead people with these dangerous statements ? And what happens if that "second person" registered has never voted before, and you are asked to show ID ?

How many people do you think will risk several years of prison and thousands of dollars of fines to cast 1 fake vote? Any political party would find it much easier to game the election by just "paying off" a large number of legit voters instead of mounting a laborious effort to find a few people willing for fake voting.

3. No one verified my citizenship when I registered. I just need to check that I am a citizen. I can get into trouble but with so much political brazenness on both sides, DAs/AGs are not prosecuting these crimes.

You *will* get into trouble. The fear of the law is a key element, since the law enforcement system generally works much better than (say) in Bharat. These loose/casual statements that "nobody is prosecuting these things" are misleading and dangerous.

The government isn't "stupid". Election authorities do audit their data regularly, and they consistently find voting fraud is negligible. If it is found to be a problem, additional measures will be taken.

As of today, 36 states do require some form of ID - which is fine by me personally. Whether you live in such a state or not, the proven reality is that ***voter fraud is a negligible problem in the USA presidential elections**.

And FWIW, the states where there is no ID requirement (other than first-time voter), are nearly all "blue" states in which the Dems (supposedly the party of voter fraud) have no need whatsoever to game presidential elections.

The main issue is voter suppression: i.e. making it hard for people (who may very well have ID) to vote. You cannot audit that.

[vijayk]

Every pathetic fellow has the same logic. We don't check ID because it intimidates voters. We don't prosecute crime because it hurts minorities. We defund police because they are racially prejudiced. Same garbage logic.

How are they going to check voter ID of first time voters if they are voting by mail? come to your home and check

The kind illogical nonsense folks spew on this election integrity maintenance shows how IQ averages have dipped in the US

Ability scores of verbal reasoning (logic, vocabulary), matrix reasoning (visual problem solving, analogies), and letter and number series (computational/mathematical) dropped during the study period,

https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2 ... .%E2%80%9D

[Yagnasri]

In most of the states in Bharat, very few non-citizens vote. ID is checked, and the list will have photos and even mobile numbers. The local admin prepares lists. With EVMs, most of the issues were resolved. The election administration is almost entirely independent. In each of those counts, there are issues in the US. There are still a lot of problems with election integrity in Bharat, but those can be resolved. Very little to no opposition is there for election integrity in Bharat.

But in US. No one is willing to look at election integrity.

But in case of the US, the movement you start a discussion on election integrity.