India-US Strategic News and Discussion

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
prahaar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2801
Joined: 15 Oct 2005 04:14

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby prahaar » 01 Aug 2014 18:57

skekatpuray wrote:
Satya_anveshi wrote:Sean Hannity is a stupid Fk but that is what he said and the context was Philip ji's rather comic post.
I said leading american news analysis show host.....I didn't say his analysis is/was great. Remember Fox ratings are high, analysis is often stupid and racist. so what does that make of americans who are watching it and rating it?



It proves that we in India need similar right-leaning channel and it's viewership probably could outstrip the existing sickular msm channels.


That video is a keeper, especially the time when one person says collateral damage to "some villagers" at 2:01. If this passes for main stream media, ARoy has good company in Fox.

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6865
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 01 Aug 2014 19:12

Guys, gurus, please tell me what am I missing. And I know JEMJi once touched on this earlier, but I would like to see more discussion. Thanks to BR, I watched the key points of the Kerry, Sushma press conference. And also read reports.

They touched upon a range of issues from trade to east Asia, you name it including US snooping on BJP for sure to protect its "South Asia" terrorist assets in India & TSP lest someone like Gadkari, Doval etc get a get hold of those pigLeTs.

And here is what puzzles me. Why is it that there was never any discussion about TSP? Their terror machine? The lack of progress on 26/11 (where whites were also killed and not just scores of SDREs), US military aid to TSP, you name it? Even Roy in his interview with Kerry and that commerce sec dim-wit didn't raise it. The only terror discussion was about India's concerns that Afganisthan might become a source of terror.

Why is India so coy about raising US dalliance with TSP?

chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 01 Aug 2014 21:08

svinayak wrote:Sushma Swaraj press conf
Please watch from minute 16:00 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yWeDDO1x5c


---------------
Link
original: video


I can't believe it. In talk with Kerry NaMo called for Saffron Revolution: Revolution in Energy as saffron represents Energy. And Kerry was made to report it. Brilliant.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3314
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Rony » 01 Aug 2014 22:33

Deracinated house N Chidanand Rajghatta on his next "Indiaaaan-Americaaaan has arrrrrived " article

Lt Raj Bansal: The Indian-American finger on US nuclear button

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 01 Aug 2014 22:38

From the codes as I could make out, today
Afghanistan
means Pakistan Army aka Pakiban
and
Terror
means Pakistan Army of Islam aka Lashkar-e-Toiba

So there was a lot of discussion of these. What was notably missing was any "Talks with Pakistan" or any mention AT ALL of the word "Pakistan". Absolutely no 'equal-equal' and no nauseating stuff from Indian side either.

"Bilateral" was the excuse used for that. The Brish1t-accented question on India getting dragged into South Taiwan Sea tamashas was sidestepped by SoS JoKerry and ignored by Poojya Mantrini SS.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21156
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 01 Aug 2014 22:57

Excellent piece on the mighty destructive power of the US military and in contrast to where it stands in its civilian infrastructure as a result.

US Military Spending and Our Bullet Trains to Nowhere
Tuesday, May 20, 2014
by TomDispatch.com

by Tom Engelhardt
An artist's rending is necessary, because the United States has not built one single mile of high-speed rail track. Not one. (Photo: file)

Consider this: our advanced robotic creatures, those drone aircraft grimly named Predators and Reapers, are still blowing away human beings from Yemen to Pakistan. Meanwhile, the Pentagon is now testing out a 14,000-pound drone advanced enough to take off and land on its own on the deck of an aircraft carrier -- no human pilot involved. (As it happens, it’s only a "demonstrator" and, at a cost of $1.4 billion, can’t do much else.) While we’re talking about the skies, who could forget that the U.S. military is committed to buying 2,400 F-35 Joint Strike Fighters, already dubbed, amid cost overruns of every sort, "the most expensive weapons system in history." The bill for them: nearly $400 billion or twice what it cost to put a man on the moon.

In similar fashion, the U.S. Navy, with 10 aircraft carriers afloat on a planet on which no other nation has more than two, is now building a new class of “supercarriers.” The first of them, the USS Gerald R. Ford, is due for delivery in 2016 at an estimated cost of more than $12 billion. It, too, is experiencing the sort of cost overruns and performance problems that now seem to accompany all new U.S. weapons systems. In the meantime, Washington has dispatched one of its littoral combat ships (a troubled $34 billion weapons system) to Singapore; is flying manned aircraft and drones over the Nigerian bush; and as for building national security state infrastructure of just about any sort, seldom has a problem getting Congress to pony up -- as in the $69 million now in the 2015 defense budget for the latest prison being constructed at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, meant to house just 15 “high-value” prisoners. Similarly, when it comes to the infrastructure needed to listen in on the world, the sky’s the limit, including an almost $2 billion data center built for the National Security Agency in Bluffdale, Utah. In such "infrastructural" realms, the U.S. is today without serious competition.

On the other hand, if we’re talking about purely civilian infrastructure, just consider that, at this very moment, Congress is dilly-dallying while the crucial Highway Trust Fund that keeps American roads and interstates in shape is “heading for a cliff” and projected to go bankrupt in August. This from the country that once turned the car into a poetic symbol of freedom. Meanwhile, the nation's overall infrastructure, from levees and dams to wastewater and aviation, now regularly gets a grade of D+ from the American Society of Civil Engineers.

As a rising power in the nineteenth century, the U.S. moved toward global status on the basis of an ambitious program of canal building and then of government-sponsored transcontinental railroads. Jump a century and a half and the country that, until recently, was being called the planet’s “sole superpower” has yet to build a single mile of high-speed rail. Not one. Even a prospective line between Los Angeles and San Francisco, which looked like it might be constructed, is now blocked coming and going.

If, however, you happen to be looking for a twenty-first century rising power that has put its money on the American (rail)road to success, check out China. When Chinese state expenditures are discussed in the U.S., the American concern is always military spending (definitely on the rise), but China’s domestic spending on high-speed rail is staggering. As of 2012, the country already had a 10,000-kilometer network, including the longest line in the world, and it’s expected to hit 15,000 kilometers by the end of 2015, not to speak of -- as Pepe Escobar notes today -- high-speed “silk roads” that could, in the end, reach across Eurasia. Someday, if Chinese engineering dreamers are to be believed, there might even be a two-day 8,000-mile line from Beijing via the longest underwater tunnel ever built through Canada to the United States.

If you want a measure of rise and decline, look no further than this comparison between U.S. and Chinese infrastructural build-ups, between, that is, Washington’s global military-first strategy and Beijing’s civilian-first one meant to create a transport and communications system that could economically tie significant parts of the world to that country for decades to come.
Rising... falling... Perhaps as Escobar, that peripatetic traveler across the realms he likes to call Pipelineistan, suggests in his latest piece, we really are heading for a new Eurasian Century.

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4373
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby KLNMurthy » 01 Aug 2014 23:50

chaanakya wrote:
svinayak wrote:Sushma Swaraj press conf
Please watch from minute 16:00 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yWeDDO1x5c


---------------
Link
original: video


I can't believe it. In talk with Kerry NaMo called for Saffron Revolution: Revolution in Energy as saffron represents Energy. And Kerry was made to report it. Brilliant.

Also, kerry brought up womens safety and minority rights. Then said both India and the US have room for improvement. I don 't know, but that kind of == seems like a climbdown for USA.

In reply to question in Hindi asking about snooping, Sushma Swaraj said in Hindi that she conveyed the Indian people's anger to Kerry but that part was left out in the English translation.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 01 Aug 2014 23:57

she conveyed the Indian people's anger to Kerry but that part was left out in the English translation.


Not quite. I think I heard it in both. JK certainly got the message and acknowledged the "anger" in his response.
But.. in the scheme of things, this "outrage over spying" is ludicrous posturing onlee, hain? Just like the "Protect Wimmens Rites" thing, when the US has over 13 times the level of crimes against wimmen compared to India, and that with a population less than 1/4 of India's. Trouble is, it's one of those things where no one can stand up and say: "Our crime rate is insignificant compared to urs", because only the word "insignificant" will be amplified by the media as "Proof" of ur contempt for wimmens and preference for goats. Same way, the proper response to "spying" is "hain?" Wouldn't/Don't u do it if you could/can? Let's stop f*rting, shall we, so that the Sensors we have under our chairs right now are not overwhelmed?" But no one can say that.

The proper response is also,
Hain, we want to understand u better : :mrgreen:

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55035
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 02 Aug 2014 02:41

JE Menon wrote:>>Good going for the old warhorse.ass

Don't trust this fellow. Given half a chance he will resume brown-nosing with the vigor of a hypocritical zealot...



There fixed it. He is untrust worthy fellow. Pushes personal views undermining national interests. And don't forget he stole money from Saddam Hussein also. Yes he took the fall for Sonia Borgia.

He should have studied Cardinal Wolsey's lament "Had I but served my maker with half the zeal I served my master......"
And he is so courageous that he publishes after Congress is defeated. He could ahve imed the release to just before elections.
A sad curse on the name Singh which means Lion. This one is heyna.

----------------------

CRS, India wont discuss TSP with US.
Its US problem who they associate and get medals from.

How useful is it to discuss TSP with Kerry who is recipient of Nishan e Haider from TSP?
ramana

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55035
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 02 Aug 2014 02:44

Rony wrote:Deracinated house N Chidanand Rajghatta on his next "Indiaaaan-Americaaaan has arrrrrived " article

Lt Raj Bansal: The Indian-American finger on US nuclear button



It is folks like Chiddu Rajghatta who mislead Indians back home.
Glad he doesnt know more. 8)

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6865
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 02 Aug 2014 02:53

Chiddu Rajghatta works for ToILet and he is on their payroll. And they put him up in US which means its costs them quite a bit of money. And all he comes up with is this kind absolute "feel good" rubbish? ToILet must be awash with cash.

member_22733
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3788
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_22733 » 02 Aug 2014 03:16

Someone has to tell Chiddu that if ever a day comes when the POTUS decides that the nuke button has to be pressed against India, the good Lt. Bansal will have no hesitation in doing so.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55035
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 02 Aug 2014 04:33

The mendacity of Notwar Singh wrt to sucking up to massa misusing his foreign service connections to please Sonia Borgia


Tear gas loyalist to sharp shooter- How manmohan-stung natwar changed side
The writer as usual blames MMS rather than SoniaG!!!

New Delhi, Aug. 1: Natwar Singh had stood unflinchingly behind Sonia Gandhi during her darkest years, even braving water cannons and tear gas to fight her cause against then Prime Minister P.V. Narasimha Rao.

So it would have caused some shock that, at a time her star seems down again, the former foreign minister has undermined the sacrifice theory that has hung a halo around Sonia’s head these past 10 years.

Sonia had cited her “inner voice” to decline the Prime Minister’s post in May 2004; Natwar now says the decisive factor was Rahul Gandhi’s fears about her possible assassination.

Some, however, may see the development as a late fallout from an irony of recent Congress history: Sonia’s backing of Rao’s most prominent lieutenant, Manmohan Singh, against the traditional Nehru-Gandhi loyalists who had risked their careers supporting her against Rao.

Two of the biggest losers — and leading Manmohan baiters — were Natwar and Arjun Singh, both eased out of their senior ministry positions.

A career diplomat turned politician, Natwar had admired Jawaharlal Nehru, was deeply loyal to Indira Gandhi, and served Rajiv Gandhi as a close aide.

Since Rajiv’s assassination in May 1991 till losing his ministry in December 2005, the erudite Natwar was Sonia’s trouble-shooter, street-fighter and literary adviser all rolled into one.

He repeatedly snubbed Rao’s emissaries who came offering a government berth. In May 1995, he left the Congress along with Arjun, N.D. Tiwari, M.L. Fotedar, Sheila Dikshit and others to form the Tiwari Congress.

One day, the police turned on the new party’s members with batons, water cannons and tear gas for chanting the slogan: “Narasimha Rao hatao, Sonia Gandhi lao (oust Rao, bring in Sonia).”

When this correspondent entered Parliament Street police station minutes later, Tiwari was drenched and Arjun was nursing a blow. Natwar was crying rivers because of the tear gas but his belligerence hadn’t left him.

“Today we are weeping; tomorrow they will,” he said.

Out of the Congress, Natwar took it upon himself to make sure that every visiting foreign dignitary called on Sonia. He faced many obstacles.

While some like Yasser Arafat insisted on calling on 10 Janpath, Rao’s South Block mandarins cited protocol to try and deter others.

Natwar rose to the challenge. He worked the back channels and his contacts in foreign political parties such as the African National Congress, Ba’ath Party of Iraq, Conservative Party, Pakistan People’s Party and the Communist Party of China to ensure the flow of world leaders to 10 Janpath never dried up.

When the NDA came to power, Natwar continued with his unofficial task, often using his proximity to fellow ex-diplomat Brajesh Mishra, principal secretary to Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee and national security adviser.

In 2001, when Sonia was leader of the Opposition, Natwar’s efforts resulted in her leading a delegation to the UN, much to the chagrin of then Union health minister C.P. Thakur. Thanks to the Natwar-Brajesh network, Sonia was granted a meeting with then US Vice-President Dick Cheney.


Natwar was Sonia’s key fire-fighter when the publication of Katherine Frank’s Indira: the life of Indira Nehru Gandhi infuriated her estranged sister-in-law and NDA minister Maneka Gandhi.

Maneka blamed Sonia for the “derogatory” remarks against Maneka’s late husband Sanjay Gandhi in the book. Frank had met Sonia while researching the book and acknowledged her help in accessing family letters and photographs.

Maneka sued the publishers for defamation and won an out-of-court settlement claiming that both Indira and Sanjay had been portrayed in a bad light. Sonia kept quiet but Natwar ripped into Maneka, highlighting how she had made common cause with Indira’s detractors and joined the BJP.

The Tiwari Congress had merged back into the parent party after Sonia became Congress president. Soon, some party leaders who had earlier sided with Rao began a whisper campaign alleging preferential treatment to the returned prodigals.

Natwar, Arjun, Vincent George and M.L. Fotedar were described as the “gang of four” — a coterie that was “misleading” Sonia.


{These were the original D4!!!!}

Sonia understood the need for a united Congress. Slowly, the gang of four began losing out to Ambika Soni, Ahmed Patel, Pranab Mukherjee and Shivraj Patil. Sheila Dikshit was the lone exception, retaining her clout till 2014.

Arjun, left out of the UPA II government, died disillusioned but in his memoirs, spoke not a word against the Nehru-Gandhis.

{He was hoping for 2G to reward his nikamma son}

Natwar’s fate was sealed when the Volcker committee, set up by the UN to inquire into alleged corruption in its oil-for-food programme for Iraq, named him, son Jagat and some Indian companies as beneficiaries of the scam.

For a few days in December 2005, Natwar was a picture of confidence till Sonia discovered that the party’s name had indeed been misused. Natwar tried meeting her but the doors of 10 Janpath were firmly shut to him.


By the time Natwar was sacked as foreign minister, Arjun no longer had the courage to tell Sonia to be lenient to him. Privately, Arjun used to say: “Natwar Singh is the foreign policy of the Congress and the country.” :rotfl: :rotfl:

A story from the legend of Laila-Majnu has now begun doing the rounds in the Congress.

Laila, having heard that her beloved was wandering the streets of Baghdad hungry, sent her chambermaid with milk for him. A greedy beggar cornered the milk by pretending to be Majnu and chanting: “Hai Laila.”

Hearing from other sources that Majnu’s condition had worsened further, Laila sent out her maid again with milk and the instruction to bring back a bowl of Majnu’s blood.

This time, the beggar pointed to the real Majnu and said: “Hum to doodh wale Majnu hain, khoon wala woh raha (I’m the Milk Majnu, that one’s the Blood Majnu).”

Perhaps the general election results have persuaded some of the Congress’s erstwhile loyalists not to hope for any more milk from Sonia again.


So Sonia caught him stealing money from Saddam Hussien using Congress name and hiding the proceeds.
And all along he was playing injured forced out politician!
So he is not just a betrayer but a caught thief.

Did he pay taxes on the money or is it in Swiss banks?

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 02 Aug 2014 04:52

Some country did not want him to the foreign policy advisor in Indian govt and planted the story.
Also India lost all previous external advisors with old hands removed from the govt.
There is no succession of the relationship from the previous decades.

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6865
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 02 Aug 2014 07:09

ramana wrote:CRS, India wont discuss TSP with US.
Its US problem who they associate and get medals from.

How useful is it to discuss TSP with Kerry who is recipient of Nishan e Haider from TSP?
ramana


RamanaGaru, I see what you are saying, but by the same token how useful is it to discuss spying with US. You think US will stop their peeping toms from snooping in on us SDREs? My point is that US military sales to TSP is of enormous importance to India. We on BR talk about it all the time. And I am sure in private many Indian officials lament the same. How come there not even a wimp of a statement in public?

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Aug 2014 07:28

US military sales to TSP is of enormous importance to India.

Is it? Has this issue REALLY been dissected on BRF? In the distant past, when there were proposed sales of F16s etc, India is known/believed to have strenously objected and lobbied against it. Interestingly, in those days India had far LESS clout inside the US than she is presumed to have today.

Has India really prohibited sales of all "dual-use" items (like chemicals and machine tools) to TSP? I think the reality is that there is a thriving TSP-India trade (which has many plus sides for India).

The reality is also that India buys a lot of arms from competitors of the US arms industry.

If you check, you will probably find that plenty of Pakistani Jarnails come on vijits to India. Probably they own tons of prime real estate in Mumbai and Dilli.

If India were really serious, the proper course would be to declare Pakistan a terrorist state, a menace to world peace and existence. This would be the basis to slap sanctions on any company found to be aiding the Pakistani military. For that to hurt, those companies must have at least a hope that they could otherwise do bijnej in India and make a profit.

And all said and done, suppose the TSPA and TSPAF did NOT have any modern equipment. Imagine that they are flying Sabre Jets and using Patton tanks today. Do you think India's defence posture towards TSPA would be any more Type-A than it is today? Air strikes on terrorist camps? Missile showers on border posts from where shelling occurs?

At least now, a huge part of the TSP GNP goes to buy totally useless F-16s to zoom over the mud huts of FATA.

Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7339
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 02 Aug 2014 09:03


I can't believe it. In talk with Kerry NaMo called for Saffron Revolution: Revolution in Energy as saffron represents Energy. And Kerry was made to report it. Brilliant.


I am fairly sure that he was confused with anti-government protests started in Myanmar) on 15 August 2007.. (that was known as saffron Revolution)

He was very impressed all anti government protests...
Picture

Satya_anveshi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3532
Joined: 08 Jan 2007 02:37

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Satya_anveshi » 02 Aug 2014 09:05

WTO standoff: First responsibility towards India's poor, Modi tells Kerry

"I am more concerned about the small Indian farmer, even though I believe the trade facilitation agreement is good for India," Modi said. The PM was responding to Kerry who told him the failure to get a WTO deal "undermines" Modi's message of India being open for business. The India-US strategic dialogue has been clouded by the Indian blockade of the trade facilitation agreement, as the talks failed in Geneva on Thursday night.

"The first responsibility of my government is to the poorest people of the country. While we don't oppose the agreement, we believe that the needs of those living on the margins of society, not just in India but elsewhere too, have to be addressed," Modi told Kerry in the meeting.



The Indian side has not been particularly impressed by the quality of dialogue with the US. Apart from the exhausting laundry list of things that the two nations do, which many felt was completely unnecessary, there was a feeling on the Indian side that the US was not completely invested, which was reflected in Kerry's inattention during his meeting with Swaraj, where he kept leaving to take phone calls. {:evil: :twisted: or perhaps the reaction should be :rotfl: }


What a disaster this fokker is for the US.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 24032
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 02 Aug 2014 09:08

nageshks wrote:
Philip wrote:Both Soni-G and Quisling Singh now say that they are going to write their own books showing their side of the story.The publishers and bookstores must be droolin' in anticipation.


Sonia can write? You are serious? Not having me on? I always thought that Sonia refused PM-ship because Dr. Kalam asked her to sign for PM ship or asked her to read the oath, and she could not. If Sonia actually writes the book herself, I will buy it just for the grammar.


Priyanka Gandhi to write Sonia Gandhi's biography :rotfl:


Reacting to his comments, Mrs Gandhi had said, “I will write my own book and then everyone will know the truth. The only way the truth will come out is if I write. I am serious about this.”

Mr Singh in a television interview said, “Glad that she has decided to write. I am looking forward to it.” Mr Singh then claimed that he himself had asked Mrs Gandhi to write an autobiography, to which she told him that “Priyanka was writing her biography.”

Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7339
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 02 Aug 2014 09:12

]Okay I have to post this..

I can't believe it. In talk with Kerry NaMo called for Saffron Revolution: Revolution in Energy as saffron represents Energy. And Kerry was made to report it. Brilliant.


After praising him for the Saffron revolution, Kerry goes fully saffron to woo Modi

Image

Satya_anveshi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3532
Joined: 08 Jan 2007 02:37

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Satya_anveshi » 02 Aug 2014 09:19

drone alert

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6886
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby habal » 02 Aug 2014 09:22

latest american attempt at bio-warfare, from the american school for communicable diseases in 3rd world, this was started in Africa but can later, depending on it's effectiveness (fatality) be easily implemented in India.

http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2014/ ... bola-zone/

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... erra-leone

krishnan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7342
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Location: 13° 04' N , 80° 17' E

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby krishnan » 02 Aug 2014 10:54

...................
Last edited by krishnan on 02 Aug 2014 12:01, edited 1 time in total.

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5180
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby RoyG » 02 Aug 2014 11:17

Krishnan please stop this nonsense. The US didn't release Ebola in Africa just like UFO's didnt land in Roswell. Poor medical procedures, human movement, etc all lead to the spread. It will be contained.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7052
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 02 Aug 2014 11:54

You have to visit these parts to understand how these things spread. If you see people grilling chimp meat on the roadside in the DR Congo for example, you get a feeling for the nuances of these things. Or if you know that social structures are tight on the tribal level, but extremely "loose" within the tribe, you can get a sense of how transmission is rapid.

Most of this crap comes out of the assumption that the US can do anything. Of course, such things as this, it can do. But it is not only the US that can do this.

When putting forth such theories, try to at least give a minimum test of reason.

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6886
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby habal » 02 Aug 2014 11:59

If you see people grilling chimp meat on the roadside in the DR Congo for example, you get a feeling for the nuances of these things. Or if you know that social structures are tight on the tribal level, but extremely "loose" within the tribe, you can get a sense of how transmission is rapid.


but they must have been doing so since centuries, but they never had AIDS or Ebola then
so what changed now ?

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7052
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 02 Aug 2014 12:06

Forests are being cut down in the congo big time. People are going into areas where no one has gone before. Check out DRC on the map, for example. It is bloody massive, bigger than all of West Europe... And simply the amount of killing has increased... and every effing bug out there is getting resistant.

Secondly, how do you know they never did have? What you are saying is that "to the best of our knowledge, there was no Ebola or AIDS - errr, until we identified it".

In highly industrialised Brazil there are still tribes that are uncontacted in the Amazon. The Congo is no different, except that there is virtually no industrialisation there. Only now it is beginning to make the first steps of sorts. It is a dark and brooding place, really and truly the sort of place where you get a fundamental sense of the primeval.

I have been there, and I picked up something that nearly debilitated me permanently. I think I've survived it, or at least beaten the fu(ker back - and now it is only my lung capacity being at about 50% as a consequence that I have to deal with. I doubt the Americans did that, to be honest, although they could have.

Same shite in lots of other parts of Africa...

PS - I just realised this is way OT. Take it somewhere else please, if you are interested in continuing this (to a suitable thread, preferably the Rahul Mehta thread). I will not be continuing to engage.

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6886
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby habal » 02 Aug 2014 12:31

there was a polio epidemic in Congo at the same time research was being conducted on monkeys to create a vaccine for polio. At some point this research deviated into something else.

Check out the timelines, nothing conclusive before 1959 for AIDS. Same time as lab tests for polio vaccine.
Similarly Ebola was first identified in 70s.
Chickengunia first identified in 52.

they must have all existed as milder varients earlier. But the nastier ones all make an appearance around same timeline.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7052
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 02 Aug 2014 12:38

Please take it to some other thread as indicated above... "The US did it" is not a reasonable answer which stands the test of anything, let alone properly applied common sense.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Aug 2014 17:19

but they never had AIDS or Ebola then
so what changed now ?


Sorry, OT I know but..
The same question can be asked about many things, incl., say, rape / tribal violence/lynchings/slavery in certain specific parts of the world suddenly being reported as epidemics. What has changed is media interest/exposure/hype/funding for hype.

How would anyone outside know that ppl were not dying of Ebola epidemics inside Central Africa in, say, 1623? Ebola didn't get Recognition and Membership of the UN until 1970, and wasn't admitted into the CDC/NATO/UN Security Council or declared a Major Unwashed Non-Nuclear Ally (MUNNA) until 2010! NOW the COTUS can vote for increased supply of lethal weapons to Ebola and encourage it to move towards more democratic policies, just like Pakistan.

anupmisra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8295
Joined: 12 Nov 2006 04:16
Location: New York

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby anupmisra » 02 Aug 2014 17:25

Satya_anveshi wrote:What a disaster this fokker is for the US.


Don't remind me. I voted for the other guy.

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4373
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby KLNMurthy » 02 Aug 2014 18:46

Rony wrote:Deracinated house N Chidanand Rajghatta on his next "Indiaaaan-Americaaaan has arrrrrived " article

Lt Raj Bansal: The Indian-American finger on US nuclear button

It is written in praise of glorious and confident America which let a brown guy touch its better-than-disneyland ride switch. With a snark at the end: India won't even tell who is manning its nukes, boohoo.

The shallowness is excruciating.

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4373
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby KLNMurthy » 02 Aug 2014 18:56

svinayak wrote:Some country did not want him to the foreign policy advisor in Indian govt and planted the story.
Also India lost all previous external advisors with old hands removed from the govt.
There is no succession of the relationship from the previous decades.

Being an experienced hand is worse than worthless if the character is disgraceful.

India needs to focus on building a genuine meritocracy. To start with, all degenerate sycophantic remnants of ex-royals like Arjun Singh, Natwat Singh, Jaswant Singh et al should be treated as worthless until they prove their worth.

Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3616
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31
Contact:

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Paul » 02 Aug 2014 18:57

anupmisra wrote:
Satya_anveshi wrote:What a disaster this fokker is for the US.


Don't remind me. I voted for the other guy.


But good for India. Regardless of how PIOs and OCIs feel.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Aug 2014 23:28

Paul: Why do you say that? I don't see that PIOs and OCIs have much to complain about personally about BO administration: economy has recovered, ObamaCare is really a bold attempt to FINALLY try to rein in the medical insurance ripoff (and doctors AND hospital admins AND insurance companies hate it, so it can't be all bad). Troop levels in Eyerak and A'stan being reduced, so less chance of children being drafted to war, drone attacks on TSP Continuing (win-win!).

If one were the Angana/ Prafool Bidwai type, or the Kaleem Kawaja type, everything to love about BO and his cronies.

OTOH, why would resident Indians love this US admin? They are blatantly biased against Indian economic growth, doing everything possible to invade with the WalMarts, WTO, Global Warming, Immigration Bill, cuts in H-1, attacks on all Indian companies, attacks on Indian medical industry.. and then the Nannygate extortion and terror campaign against Indian diplomats, all-out attacks against Indian democracy, in support of the Conversionists and Islamists..

What exactly do Indians like about the Obama admin? I am confused by your post.

Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Shreeman » 03 Aug 2014 00:02

Paul wrote:
anupmisra wrote:satya_anveshi -- what a disaster this fokker is for the US.
Don't remind me. I voted for the other guy.


But good for India. Regardless of how PIOs and OCIs feel.


The "orherguy" would have been two orders of magnitude worse. Convince yourself in 2016 when there will be another guy. Politics is a slippery slope. This guy is reflectin what each one of the politicians of either hue is.

Voting alone changes nothing. Do you care? Then go to town halls, barge into their local offices with papers in hand, show up and participate. Anonymous criticism alone will do nothing for this guy or the next one. and soon these tools will become meaningless as well, then only open protests will be left. this is not the first political cycle either, but there are no people left this time to turn out like vietnam.

By the way, do you even recall the last guy? The one who is now a painter?

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21156
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 03 Aug 2014 06:48

That's why he is known as "JoKerry"! What a buffoon.

So Sonia-G is getting Priyanka to be her ghost-writer and what about Quisling Singh's tome? Rumour has it that he has asked Sonia-G for permission .She has agreed on the condition that all the pages are blank!

This is hilarious,read on.
http://blogs.rollcall.com/five-by-five/ ... /?src=otbp
No Plans for Canada Invasion, Pentagon Leader Says

By Tim Stars on June 19, 2014
Comments in post: No Plans for Canada Invasion, Pentagon Leader Says

Man without a plan: Dempsey testifies during a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on March 5. (Bill Clark/CQ Roll Call)

Wednesday’s hearing of the Senate Appropriations Defense Subcommittee was informative on a great many serious subjects. It also revealed that the United States isn’t prepared to take aggressive action against its looming menace to the north, according to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Dan Coats, R-Ind., was asking about how prepared the military was to act in Iraq. “Based on my previous service in the Senate and some service now, I’m totally aware that the Pentagon has a contingency plan on the shelf for just about every possible scenario, everything from nuclear war to an invasion by Canada, and everything in between,” he said, per the transcript by CQ.com.

Answered Gen. Martin E. Dempsey:

“Let me first assure you we do not have a plan on the shelf for the invasion of Canada. I want to make sure that our Canadian allies, who may be watching…
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)”
The Obama administration has previously denied any secret plan to invade Canada, but this is the first public admission that it has no blueprint to be able to do so if needed.

If Dempsey is to be believed — and some Canadians have assumed that the U.S. military has just such a plan on the shelf — he is ignoring military history. The United States found cause to invade Canada in 1775 and 1812, then developed War Plan Red in the 1920s and 30s, which contemplated a potential invasion of Canada. And as recently as 1999, a bloody, near-apocalyptic (fictional) war with Canada broke out.

No word on whether the United States has a plan to defend itself should Canada invade U.S. soil, so there’s no need just yet for American citizens to emotionally brace themselves for a stampede of moose-riding, maple syrup-guzzling Mounties to become our new overlords.

Atri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4152
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 21:07

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Atri » 03 Aug 2014 13:36

UlanBatori wrote:
US military sales to TSP is of enormous importance to India.

Is it? Has this issue REALLY been dissected on BRF? In the distant past, when there were proposed sales of F16s etc, India is known/believed to have strenously objected and lobbied against it. Interestingly, in those days India had far LESS clout inside the US than she is presumed to have today.

Has India really prohibited sales of all "dual-use" items (like chemicals and machine tools) to TSP? I think the reality is that there is a thriving TSP-India trade (which has many plus sides for India).

The reality is also that India buys a lot of arms from competitors of the US arms industry.

If you check, you will probably find that plenty of Pakistani Jarnails come on vijits to India. Probably they own tons of prime real estate in Mumbai and Dilli.

If India were really serious, the proper course would be to declare Pakistan a terrorist state, a menace to world peace and existence. This would be the basis to slap sanctions on any company found to be aiding the Pakistani military. For that to hurt, those companies must have at least a hope that they could otherwise do bijnej in India and make a profit.

And all said and done, suppose the TSPA and TSPAF did NOT have any modern equipment. Imagine that they are flying Sabre Jets and using Patton tanks today. Do you think India's defence posture towards TSPA would be any more Type-A than it is today? Air strikes on terrorist camps? Missile showers on border posts from where shelling occurs?

At least now, a huge part of the TSP GNP goes to buy totally useless F-16s to zoom over the mud huts of FATA.



11,000-page 26/11 Mumbai attack chargesheet had one para on LeT: Book

NEW DELHI: The chargesheet in the 26/11 Mumbai attack case that ran into over 11,000 pages had just one paragraph on Lashkar-e-Taiba, the terror organization behind the attacks and scant reference to ISI.

According to a book set to be published shortly, the chargesheet also left several other lacunae that thoroughly disappointed many, including Chikako Taya, a former Japanese judge who was on the International Criminal Tribunal for former Yugoslavia (ICTY). Justice Taya studied the Mumbai attack case as part of an effort to see if it can be covered under 'joint criminal enterprise' (JCE), to prosecute those in Pakistan who orchestrated the terror strike under an international tribunal.

"(With its flimsy chargesheet) The prosecution relieved the real criminals behind the actual crime. The name of ISI does not figure in the chargesheet and consequentially the name did not figure in the judgment. As it is said, the LeT is also scantily defined in the chargesheet. The terror organization did not draw much indictment from the court," the book says.

According to 'Fragile Frontiers: The Secret History of Mumbai Terror Attacks', by Saroj Kumar Rath, when Justice Taya visited the 26/11 attack special public prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam in Mumbai, she was surprised to see that the lawyer in India's most important terrorism case had no clue of JCE, a concept that had been innovatively applied by ICTY recently.

"Why was the LeT not adequately dealt in the chargesheet, asked Justice Taya? Nikam answered that 'it has adequately been dealt in the chargesheet'. Justice Taya protested and said only one paragraph in the entire chargesheet was devoted to LeT. Nikam explained that as a criminal lawyer he was well versed in criminal proceeding of the case. As he was out of the investigation team, he did not have much information and the union home ministry might have more information, which would satisfy the quest of his visitor," the book says.

The book goes on to raise several questions over the way the investigations into the 26/11 attacks was handled, and the very shallow chargesheet filed in the case. "The entire 11,280-page chargesheet basically dealt with the loss of lives and property in the aftermath of Mumbai attacks. The entire chargesheet is a compilation of the post mortem report of 166 persons, oral testimony of 2,202 persons, detail of loss of property, ballistic evidence of blasts and firing, and details about the materials carried by the terrorist to the attacks sites," the book says.


When Justice Taya met Nikam, the book says: "Justice Taya started asking question after question on the role of the ISI, the Pakistan army and the LeT in Mumbai attack. All questions were either deflected or answered in the negative by Nikam. On the question of the LeT and the ISI, Nikam admitted his limitation and asked how he could investigate a matter which came under the jurisdiction of Pakistan."

The book is also highly critical of the voluminous judgment delivered in the case, pointing out that it was a compilation of "lofty words and hyperbole, which lacks substance and true wisdom." But to a great extent the blame, the book says, is with the poor evidence presented and weak prosecution.


This news from today's TOIlet is in sync with UB ji's post which I have quoted above and few of my old posts. A large section of RoI is invested in ensuring existence of Pakistan, even if it means hurting self. This is mostly driven by vote-bank politics considerations and overdependence on underground money to stay relevant in politics (refer to my MH-politics article for further details)

viewtopic.php?p=934847#p934847

Atri wrote:What about the splinters, Rajesh ji? The cure for Sindhu valley goes via Ganga valley only. The proposition which you gave forth (in managing tsp failure dhaga) has this drawback.

Even if TSPA is dismembered and "enclaves" for "minorities" are set up in pakjab and Sindh, the preferential treatment towards "Dharmiks" to such an extent for such a length of time that RoPers start converting to Indic fold (within 20 years, you say) can happen only when Ganga is cleared off.

I would like to make a statement. The spiritual father for "idea of Pakistan" is not 3.5 fathers, it is Upper Ganga valley. It is from here, that this idea arose, it is here that sought legitimacy (in principle, not political). the 3.5 men are merely the foster-fathers of this Child of Ganga.

The fathers in Ganga valley will not allow this child to die so easily because it then means that the guns will turn towards them. TSPA is an insurance for many other players apart from Saudi Arabia and Turkey. It is primary insurance of string-holding Islamists of upper Gangetic plains. The child and father will have to be addressed simultaneously.

There cannot be a "serial" algorithm to tackle this problem. This is an "Accumulated Junk" of 1000 years. It has to be addressed in parallel. This is again what I emphasized in my previous post. The "confusion of Pune" was precisely this in 1700's.



viewtopic.php?p=784268#p784268

Atri wrote:The biggest stake holders in India is the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty. The modern Republic of India, however it is, is mostly built by Indian National Congress (INC). So, they have plenty of invested interests and efforts and money and memories in this country.

This dynasty will do anything to maintain its interests, which is whole nation. The dynasty won't do anything which will compromise their position of power in independent India. According to Newton's first law of motion, An object continues to be in state of rest or uniform motion unless acted upon by some unbalanced force. Here, the object is India under dynasty. The dynasty will move in the direction of the force which overcomes the equilibrium of competing forces. This applies to internal forces like Hindutva and Naxalism as well as external forces like interests of USA, Russia, China, Evangelical forces and Jihadi Islamism. The dynasty will compromise anything to maintain a strong presence in India's power circle. Dynasty is typically a status-quo loving entity, especially in post Indira Gandhi era. In case when they are in power, they try to consolidate their power without trying to be intrepid and doing things out of the way. They show typical behaviour of North Indian power Satrap described in this article.

PVNR-Manmohan Singh jodi (liberalization-1991) and Vajpayee (nuclear tests-1998) provided the radical internal unbalancing forces which dramatically changed the trajectory of India. Now that the trajectory is fixed, the dynasty, whenever in power, will do anything to ensure that the new trajectory remains unchanged. I am glad that communists never got such a chance to introduce a defining change in trajectory of India.

Now, it is alleged that Gandhi dynasty have been increasingly acting as puppets of foreign powers since the death of Indira Gandhi. Recently, a lawsuit for $ 100 million was filed by Indian National Overseas Congress on few Hindu leaders in New-york supreme court against defamation of Sonia Gandhi.

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14654132

$100m lawsuit against US Hindu leaders New York: New York-based Indian National Overseas Congress Inc (INOC) has filed a lawsuit in the Supreme Court of the State of New York for $100 million against three prominent Hindu activists Narain Kataria, Arish Sahani and Bharat Barai for allegedly defaming UPA Chairperson Sonia Gandhi by releasing a full page advertisement in The New York Times during her October visit to the US. The plaintiff Dr Surinder Malhotra, Chief Executive Officer of INOC states in the complaint in New York Supreme court that false statements had been made in the advertisement about his boss Sonia Gandhi and her son Rahul Gandhi in The New York Times dated October 6. INOC has hired a law firm which had represented Ariel Sharon of Israel against Time magazine.


Apparently this lawsuite was defeated in the court. This proves that courts did not find the lawsuite holding any weightage. Which inturns leads us to speculation that the allegations made by them against Sonia might be true.

In case, we assume that external agencies have invested a lot INC and Gandhi dynasty and that they are at the best influenced by foreign agents or at the worst have become puppets of external forces, this leads us nowhere. What matters is, if there is some iota of truth in this hypothesis, what next?Because, Gandhi dynasty has returned to power in general elections 2009 with conclusive defeat of both BJP and more importantly, Communists. Now that they are back to the position of supreme power yet again, how will their behavior be, with respect to their alleged foreign string-holders.

For this, we have to look into the history of Gandhi dynasty and then speculate the reasons why this has been.

It was most probably after assassination of Indira Gandhi, when Rajiv Gandhi was forced into politics out of his peaceful life. It has been a fight for survival for Rajmata and her kids since then. The complex geopolitical factors caused death of her husband as well. After assassination of Rajiv Gandhi, she went into complete oblivion and took herself and her children away from Indian political scenario.

For some reasons, she entered national political scene. The probable reasons are
1. Increasing clout of BJP and Vajpayee.
2. Need of INC to invoke the name of Gandhi dynasty to maintain their political presence and power.

Hence she was urged to enter active politics. Why did Sonia Gandhi accept this offer is the biggest enigma. She knew what mess she was getting into. But, perhaps meanwhile she had renewed the old contacts and built some new ones (both internal and external) which became the powerful friends of her dynasty. Without this support and insurance, she would never have entered the power-mess of Indian politics which was experiencing a major shift away from INC and towards BJP and Hindutva.

Once she entered the political scenario of India, the magic of her dynasty slowly started working. The old Indira - designed system was renewed and old investments, political apointees were called upon to do the bidding of the dynasty. This coupled with India-Shining Fiasco of Vajpayee govt, led to INC and hence gandhi dynasty coming back to power in 2004, although, with the help of communists.

Last 5 years have been interesting to observe. The drastic changes in geopolitics of globe and region have started to force upon the dynasty to execute certain steps which will bring India strategically away from communism and socialism. The Indian Chanakyas in Ministry of External Affairs and other ministries must have seen this as an opportunity to increase the clout of India as well earn some money. It is the "Ganga Beh rahi hain, haath dho lo"attitude which was displayed by MMS during the entire Indo-US nuke deal process. MMS govt showed the shrewdness of an attractive girl flirting with 2-3 boyfriends simultaneously and extracting things which she perceives as goodies. The results in 2009 General elections have shown that Sonia Gandhi and Gandhi Dynasty is at the zenith of her power and she is as safe as she can ever be along with all her political investments.

The point now is, how will she and hence the kids, move ahead. As I have elucidated earlier, the KGB stuff was need of Rajmata during her Vanvaas. Now that she is safely and soundly back in her palace at Indraprastha without dogged pursuit of commies, will the dynasty show the guts to slowly eliminate the foreign influences or not? This is based on initial assumption that all men of power desire more power-absolute power.

One more interesting speculation. MMS also seems to be a Mahatma Vidur. Does he have anything up his sleeve that will be a pleasant surprise?

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9268
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Hari Seldon » 03 Aug 2014 19:21

John Kerry Just Visited. But Should We Just Forget About India?

Should we just forget about India?' asks this gasbag brother of an ex-chindu editor. Who's 'we'? Sheesh.

member_22733
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3788
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_22733 » 03 Aug 2014 21:49

'We' are MUTUs who are pissed off at India for trying to protect her poor and destitutes from a Neo-imperialistic WTO.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: A Sharma, Ashokk, Sachin, Vips and 97 guests