Internal Security Watch

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Jan 2011 21:35

Sanku wrote:And to think I used to have "serious" discussions with Somnath.

What a favor has he done to all of us to come out in his true colors.

This truly is a season for looking at all in in their real clothes.

I used to think he was knowledgeable. He is one of the drones here.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 11 Jan 2011 21:36

somnath wrote: Arjun, in case you have decided that NSCM is plays basically a "christian separatist card", in spite of lots of evidence depicting a complex scenario (Phizo, the manifesto, the empirircal evidence of conflicts within NSCN etc), then there is nothing to say...That is a point of view, you are entitled to one as much as the other person...The reality seems a bit different, at least in the manner things are playing out..

If you think the evidence depicts a 'complex scenario' re NSCN, while depicting a 'black and white scenario' in the case of 'Hindu terror' - sure I have nothing more to say as well. Do you agree with the government in terming NLFT as a terrorist organization (obviously fighting on a Christian agenda) or is that a 'complex scenario' again?

My point simply is that it is good that the state has progressed to explicitly categorizing the kinds of armed militant challenges that it faces, and it needs to further be explicit about the prioritization of these threats - so counter-terror funds can be adequately focused on the right areas. A set of criteria needs to be developed for prioritizing these threats (based on objective parameters such as number of suspected organizations involved, stated aims of the organizations, history of killings and violence etc) - and the government needs to focus on weeding out all terror with NO EXCEPTIONALISM. Christian terror does exist in the NE, and by making an exception in even talking about this while having no compunction with regard to other forms of terrorism - the state has already weakened its own case.

You seem to be intent on exceptionalism towards Christian and Naxal terrorism - and that is what is bothersome.

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 11 Jan 2011 22:03

This is a very recent report by Deepak Shrma , an Art of Living activist in his first hand fact finding mission in the Nort East
Belt find out a disturbing trend that the Christian Missioners from US and other western countries not only systematically engaged in Christian Conversions but trying to implant a unique identity among these Tribal people, which they started to understand as different from mainstream Indian identity.. resulting to growing serious involvement of larger separatist movement in order to achieve their goal of an Independent country suitable to thier new found identity.

he first is a very disturbing first-hand account of conversions in Arunachal Pradesh. This comes from Deepak Sharma, an Art of Living instructor who spends most of his time in the north-east of India. He shared this in an email with me recently. I requested his permission to post it on the blog which he kindly granted. Pl read on (minor edits for readability; emphasis added).

This…was written following my recent visit to Changlang – a village in Arunachal Pradesh. I visited 12 homes where families are living under a constant threat of getting converted into Christianity. If they refuse, they may loose their only child or will not be allowed to go to their lands for ‘Jhum” agriculture – a local way of cultivating food on the hills. Before hearing of this, I could have never imagined religion blending with terrorism so well. This is a story to tell because I am myself shocked that how these events and incidents have so far gone unreported in local/national/international media.

Before starting let me tell you that I love Christianity and don’t miss a single chance to attend Church and listen to the carols on Sundays.

As many of you would know, the tribal people in the head-hunting hill regions of north east have been mostly converted into Christianity during the last quarter of the 19th century. Christian groups here have reinforced and complimented a sense of distinct ethnicity and otherness which have acted as the main source for creating a non Indian feeling and thereby resulting in separatist movements in the north eastern parts of India. Nagaland, Mizoram and Tripura being the best examples. Terrorist groups like Naga National Counsel NNC and Mizo National Front MNF also use Biblical imagery in their attempt to create terror. The MNF has also named their militant operations after Biblical events (e.g. they describe their first uprising as Operation Jericho).

NSCN – a top militant group of Nagaland – has also coined the phrase Nagaland for Christ. I have personally seen this slogan on the churches of one of the NSCN camps where Sunday service is regularly conducted by NSCNs ‘Chaplain Kilonser’ (Religious Affairs Minister). In the area bordering Nagaland and Arunachal, NSCN cadres have converted indigenous minorities on gun points; these groups are said to be funded by international Christian organizations.

One of the school teachers in Changlang had to ban the national anthem and start church prayer due to repeated threats from the NSCN groups. The more they convert the more they become successful in creating anti-national feelings.

In Mizoram the Congress has managed to control their presence by giving active support to their state Baptist church….The recent manifesto of Congress-I in Mizoram states that the party is committed to the promotion of ‘Christian Socialism’ in Mizoram.

In Tripura the strongest militant groups NLTF and TNV are essentially Christian outfits. One of NLTF’s stated objectives is to turn Tripura into ‘The Land of Christ’. It publically enjoys the support of the Tripura Baptist Church. The constitution of
NLTF, called the ‘Sacrifice for Liberation’ issued on 22

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/postin ... f=1&t=5389

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 11 Jan 2011 22:18

The recent manifesto of Congress-I in Mizoram states that the party is committed to the promotion of ‘Christian Socialism’ in Mizoram.

Kis muh se yeh congressi aapne aap ko secular kethe hain

Jasoos digvijay singh answer this

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Jan 2011 22:29

arjunm wrote:This is a very recent report by Deepak Shrma , an Art of Living activist in his first hand fact finding mission in the Nort East
Belt find out a disturbing trend that the Christian Missioners from US and other western countries not only systematically engaged in Christian Conversions but trying to implant a unique identity among these Tribal people, which they started to understand as different from mainstream Indian identity.. resulting to growing serious involvement of larger separatist movement in order to achieve their goal of an Independent country suitable to thier new found identity.

he first is a very disturbing first-hand account of conversions in Arunachal Pradesh. This comes from Deepak Sharma, an Art of Living instructor who spends most of his time in the north-east of India. He shared this in an email with me recently. I requested his permission to post it on the blog which he kindly granted. Pl read on (minor edits for readability; emphasis added).

This should not be surprising. This is East Timor.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 11 Jan 2011 22:30

http://www.rediff.com/news/1998/nov/13miz.htm

read this and tell me if you dont want to puke.

We are much concerned to notice that whenever the Congress is not in power at the Centre, there is religious oppression and the very foundation of the Church is shaken. We shall continue our efforts for religious freedom and stand firmly by the endeavours of the National Christian Council.

The mizoram congress web address has not been renewed. So couldnt find the original website.
former webadress: http://www.mpcczoram.org/

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Jan 2011 22:30

Arjun wrote:
You seem to be intent on exceptionalism towards Christian and Naxal terrorism - and that is what is bothersome.

You missed something else - Marxism and leftism

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Jan 2011 22:52

Acharya wrote:
arjunm wrote:This is a very recent report by Deepak Shrma , an Art of Living activist in his first hand fact finding mission in the Nort East
Belt find out a disturbing trend that the Christian Missioners from US and other western countries not only systematically engaged in Christian Conversions but trying to implant a unique identity among these Tribal people, which they started to understand as different from mainstream Indian identity.. resulting to growing serious involvement of larger separatist movement in order to achieve their goal of an Independent country suitable to thier new found identity.

he first is a very disturbing first-hand account of conversions in Arunachal Pradesh. This comes from Deepak Sharma, an Art of Living instructor who spends most of his time in the north-east of India. He shared this in an email with me recently. I requested his permission to post it on the blog which he kindly granted. Pl read on (minor edits for readability; emphasis added).
This should not be surprising. This is East Timor.

Missed the elephant in the room.

Most of the organisations doing this are supported / funded directly by the US govt in one form or the other.

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 11 Jan 2011 23:36

The question is what mineral wealth is out there. It is my strong conviction that Christian missionaries want to own the soul and 10% tithing, and later the Christian nations march to own the natural wealth (Timor, Sudan etc.).

Also, There were protests in NE recently against proposed Uranium mining, and therefore 'm guessing that Uranium is a possibility. This is where Graham Staines and team were sent ahead earlier by the Poodle to convert.

Acharya wrote:
arjunm wrote:This is a very recent report by Deepak Shrma , an Art of Living activist in his first hand fact finding mission in the Nort East
Belt find out a disturbing trend that the Christian Missioners from US and other western countries not only systematically engaged in Christian Conversions but trying to implant a unique identity among these Tribal people, which they started to understand as different from mainstream Indian identity.. resulting to growing serious involvement of larger separatist movement in order to achieve their goal of an Independent country suitable to thier new found identity.

he first is a very disturbing first-hand account of conversions in Arunachal Pradesh. This comes from Deepak Sharma, an Art of Living instructor who spends most of his time in the north-east of India. He shared this in an email with me recently. I requested his permission to post it on the blog which he kindly granted. Pl read on (minor edits for readability; emphasis added).
This should not be surprising. This is East Timor.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Jan 2011 23:38

krithivas wrote:The question is what mineral wealth is out there. It is my strong conviction that Christian missionaries want to own the soul and 10% tithing, and later the Christian nations march to own the natural wealth (Timor, Sudan etc.).

This should not be surprising. This is East Timor.

This is the border to China/Tibet. One of the Chinese missionary was talking about this region few years ago.
HK EJs are targetting Tibetians and also keep a watch with Nepal maoists

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 12 Jan 2011 00:08

Anyone from God's own country can throw light on the possible security implications for this internal struggle within the church - and Left/Congress involvement? Targeting a third community can be a way out for all three of them.

http://www.countercurrents.org/plathottam090111.htm

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 12 Jan 2011 00:12

Selective amnesia of liberal democrats
http://www.dailypioneer.com/309190/Sele ... 80%99.html

The same people volubly defended the secessionist jamboree in Delhi last year in which Kashmiri groups implacably hostile to India, the rump of Punjab and North-East outlaws and sundry India-bashers assembled to preach India’s dissolution. Their cause was spiritedly championed by the redoubtable Arundhati Roy, who has already declared her desire to “secede” from India for a variety of imagined grievances. The separatist conference in Delhi truly crossed the borderline, forcing the courts to intervene and direct the police to file cases of sedition against the preachers of hatred, since the Government was too weak-kneed to proactively pursue them. I nevertheless believe there is a space for dissent in every democracy even for unpalatable views.

The problem, however, arises when the so-called votaries of “genuine liberal democracy” refuse to concede similar space to contrary opinion. I hold no brief for Swami Aseemananda, Lt Col Shrikant Prasad Purohit or Pragya Singh Thakur — currently languishing in various jails for allegedly participating in terrorist activities. But when reports of the young Sadhvi’s torture and serious health problems came to light, not one ‘liberal democrat’ questioned the apparent brutality of the Indian state apparatus. Incidentally, none of them has been convicted and from every account the chargesheets (wherever filed) are appallingly weak. On the other hand, Gilani was convicted and sentenced to death but acquitted later and Binayak Sen too is now a convict.

Even the courts appear terrorised by the hysteria these people can work up. When the Supreme Court refused to entirely endorse their plea on raising the height of Gujarat’s Sardar Sarovar dam, the same ‘liberal democrats’ burnt effigies and vocally demonstrated outside the court premises. The judges, who would have slammed the handful of agitators into the cooler for at least seven days had they championed any other cause, dealt with this bunch with kid gloves, letting them off with a mild rebuke.

On the face of it, there is no linkage between those denouncing a Raipur court for holding Binayak Sen guilty and Congress heavyweight Digvijay Singh’s strident utterances against Hindu groups and equally fierce defence of suspected terror sympathisers. But I see a pattern and a political ploy in both. The ‘liberals’ hold an ideological position similar to Digvijay Singh in matters of terrorism. They are trying to argue that there are ‘good’ terrorists, wronged by an insensitive state and ‘bad’ terrorists (although no terror charge against them has been proven) who are flourishing because of misguided majority support. In the process of articulating this position, they justify Maoist depredation, jihadi terror and secessionism of various hues. I believe, despite their effort to overpower all other opinion, the silent majority will ensure India remains one and even if it takes a long time, the conspiracy of destablisation hatched by sundry malefic elements will be resoundingly defeated.

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 12 Jan 2011 01:48

Christian missionary behind Nithyananda sex scandal: Ranjitha
http://www.christianaggression.org/item ... 1293988239

“I was being blackmailed and threatened by the accused and also by another man who belongs to a Christian mission,” said the actress. “I want to live, so I shall not name them. If the CM of Tamil Nadu promises to protect me, I shall reveal the names.”

Time shall tell - But I will not dismiss her allegations.

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 12 Jan 2011 02:03

http://www.christianaggression.org/item ... 1293988239

Molestation - Hemalata Karua, 32, of Machhagarh village in Keonjhar district in Orissa, India testified in court that Australian Missionary Graham Staines had asked her to convert to Christianity to avoid financial difficulty. He also invited them to a jungle camp to be held at Manoharpur after the Hindu festival of Makar Sankranti. Karua said she and her husband converted to Christianity at the camp on January 21, 1999, and were given new clothes. They also attended a prayer meeting and a film on Christian faith that evening. Later, they were served beef at dinner, which she refused to eat, she claimed. She did mention that neither she nor her husband had been offered any money by the missionary to change their faith. Stating that she stayed alone in a hut behind the local church that night, Karua alleged that the missionary came there later and attempted to grope and rape her. She informed her husband the next morning and they left for their village. Twenty days after the incident, she claimed, the missionary's wife visited her to express regret for his actions.

If Graham Staines is the referenced missionary who attempted to rape this victim and as testified in court - He deserved the right punishment. This not a mere coincidence that for too many Christian missionaries that supposedly serve in India, they may actually see us as a destination for sexual tourism.

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 12 Jan 2011 02:08

dinakar wrote:Twitter is buzzing with IM's Riyaz Bhatkal death in karachi. Chota Rajan has claimed that he has killed him. Confirmation awaited...

Could this be confirmation. I hope it is real.

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/india ... 110112.htm

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 12 Jan 2011 08:14

Arjun wrote:You seem to be intent on exceptionalism towards Christian and Naxal terrorism - and that is what is bothersome

There is no question of "exceptionalism" - where did you get that? the limited point being made (by a lot of people who cant be accused of either being congresswallahs or leftists) is that the state cannot show any exceptionalism...By and large, it will be empirically very difficult to sustain the allegations of "exceptionalism" towards Islamist terror. Take a look at the religious profile of detainees under TADA/POTA/UAPA - do you discern any "exceptionalism"?

I mentioned before that terrorist groups and insurgent groups have been treated (almost always) differentially by the government..The "differential" treatment has beena function of three factors:

1. Ability of the state to accomodate the demands of the group within its boundary conditions.
2. Presence of some degree of mass support - usually borne out of the morphing of overground organisations into underground ones.
3. Relative firepower brought to bear - negotiations can only be successful once the firepower of the group has been sufficiently denuded...

Islamist groups like LeT, IM, JeM fall definitely under the first category...These groups have demands that can never be met under the current structure of the Indian state - so they have to be fought to the end...Hindu groups too fall in the same category, as any notion of a hindu supremacist state (whatever little one gleans from their outpourings in the media) is not consistent with the idea of India...Insuregncies morphing into terrorist movements would fall in the same category - so there was some degree of popular support for some of the objectives of the "Khalistan" movement that could be accomodated...But very soon, the likes of KCF, KZF etc could not be tolerated within the bounds of the Indian state...

Lots of groups in the NE would fall under the second category - Phizo, Laldenga, Muivah - they have all been fought to a stage where they were ready to negotiate, and then the political process of accomodation kicked in...Ditto with ULFA..And ditto with the naxals as well....Aspirations on regional identity, share of power, share of local resources, recognition of language and customs - these are well within the capability of the state to accomodate..But "I am a muslim, I need to secede", or "I am a hindu in majority and therefore I need hindu raj" cannot....

The bigger problems are specificaly with religious denominational secesionism - India, given its recent history and structure of the state, cannot compromise too much - hindu, muslim or christian (where it exists)....

Arjun wrote:Do you agree with the government in terming NLFT as a terrorist organization (obviously fighting on a Christian agenda) or is that a 'complex scenario' again

I havent commented on the NLFT because I dont know anything about it..But if the govt has branded it as a christian terror organisation, it would probably be a first...

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 12 Jan 2011 08:36

somnath wrote:Islamist groups like LeT, IM, JeM fall definitely under the first category...These groups have demands that can never be met under the current structure of the Indian state - so they have to be fought to the end...Hindu groups too fall in the same category, as any notion of a hindu supremacist state (whatever little one gleans from their outpourings in the media) is not consistent with the idea of India...

"I am a hindu in majority and therefore I need hindu raj" cannot....

What groups are we talking about here? The key demands of Hindu groups seem to be (in no particular order)
1) A stop to conversions.
2) Relief from Islamist and other kinds of terrorism directed at Hindu groups.
3) A public and commonly accepted admission by muslims that certain historical wrongs were committed.
4) A stop to the Islamist agenda of hate being taught to young minds.

What are the demands that you think are of a similar nature as put forward by groups like LeT etc.?

What groups are making these demands?

Thanks,

SPattath · Post by **SPattath** » 12 Jan 2011 08:53

came across on News9 news about Riyaz Bhatkal having been killed in Karachi by Chota Rajan gang,dont see this news on any other channel.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 12 Jan 2011 09:29

somnath wrote:
Arjun wrote:You seem to be intent on exceptionalism towards Christian and Naxal terrorism - and that is what is bothersome
There is no question of "exceptionalism" - where did you get that? the limited point being made (by a lot of people who cant be accused of either being congresswallahs or leftists) is that the state cannot show any exceptionalism..

I was not talking about the state which is a separate issue altogether - I am talking about YOU. And where I got that from is the simple observation that the same logic you liberally apply with regard to Hindus and Muslims, you have consistently refused to apply to Christians.

You have been vocal that 'we should not live in denial about Hindu terrorism' since the same 'lunatic Hindus" who have been involved in rioting can be expected to progress to bombs from pick-axes. Let me ask you again for the THIRD time - why have you not applied this logic to the loony Christians who have rioted and killed Hindus in the NE ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jan 2011 09:43

You guys are going OT for this thread. So chill.
No more discussion.
ramana

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 12 Jan 2011 10:13

Ramana, I am OK to stop this.

Before that, I will just say that if (a) 'Hindu terror' is on topic for this thread, and (b) if the following astonishing commentary from Somnath has been allowed (which in earlier days, if it had been applied in the context of Muslims in India, would have probably invited an instant ban), then all of the posts that followed are nothing but very logical probing of the context and basis of this rather provocative statement-

somnath wrote:It is both strategically unwise, as well as common sensically naive to simply be in denial about the presence of hindu extremists who ould have (or would have) committed terror crimes...After, what is so "surprising" about a few people from the mobs that perpetrated Babri, Gujarat, Delhi-1984 et al to pick up a bomb rather than a pickaxe?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jan 2011 10:20

That was then and this is now. After an admin has posted a not no more or else it becomes fair warning and things go downhill now.

Thanks for understanding.
ramana

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 12 Jan 2011 10:46

ramana wrote:That was then and this is now. After an admin has posted a not no more or else it becomes fair warning and things go downhill now.

Thanks for understanding.
ramana

Thanks Ramanaji for bring back sanity to the thread from fixated delusion. I am almost about to write the menace of Zeehadi secularist.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 12 Jan 2011 20:36

This probably relevant here.
Islam: reviewing Shiite-Sunni relations in India - an interview with Seyed Mohammad Asgari

Seyed Mohammad Asgari was born in the northern Indian town of Jaunpur (Uttar Pradesh state) in 1955. He travelled to Iran in 1974 to study at the prestigious Qom religious seminary, where he obtained the rank of Hujjat al-Islam. He stayed in Iran until 1993. Upon his return to India Asgari founded the Ahlul Bait [1] Foundation (Bonyad-e-Ahlul Bait), which he continues to manage.

Seyed Mohammad Asgari - The bottom line is that no matter how much some elements in the Indian establishment dislike the idea of Shiite-Sunni unity; at the end of the day the Indian Government feels it has a minimum duty of care towards all its citizens. India doesn't want bloodshed on the streets. The situation is totally different in Pakistan where the extremists are supported and provoked by elements in the establishment. The Pakistani establishment in turn is supported by the arrogant powers, namely the United States and the United Kingdom, both of which aspire to foment Shiite-Sunni conflict everywhere as part of a broader strategy of subverting the Islamic Revolution.

Mahan Abedin - To what extent does the Indian Government interfere in internal Muslim affairs?

Seyed Mohammad Asgari - There are elements within the system, if not the Government, who are not in principle opposed to fomenting serious divisions amongst the Muslims. There are people in India who don't like the idea of too much harmony in the Muslim community. But as I said earlier the Government as a whole is at pains to prevent bloodshed on the streets. At the same time the Government doesn't want the Muslim community to become strong. Naturally they would take measures to keep the Muslims weak and divided, but not to the point of fomenting violence, which could undermine India's international image. But I must stress I am talking generally here. I have no evidence nor can I point to specific issues or events.

Mahan Abedin - To what extent have Shiites been affected by violence perpetrated by Hindu extremists?

Seyed Mohammad Asgari - Shiites have not played a major role in any of the large scale Hindu-Muslim riots of recent years. Shiites have never instigated any of these riots nor have they played a significant role in the proceedings or the aftermath. Moreover, I can't think of a single case where Hindus have attacked the mourning processions for Imam Hossein on the Day of Ashura. On the contrary there are Hindus who are deeply affected by the Ashura narrative and feel a close bond to Imam Hossein. There is even a Hindu sect called Hosseini Brahman, which has developed its own idiosyncratic historical narrative on Ashura, the accuracy of which is not the subject of debate here.

Anyway, the point I am making is that the Shiites in India never initiate inter-religious violence. However, when these large scale riots break out the Hindu extremist mobs don't exactly go to great lengths to differentiate between Shiites and Sunnis. Their immediate objective is to kill as many Muslims as possible.

Mahan Abedin - What is the extent of Iran's influence over Indian Shiite Muslims?

Seyed Mohammad Asgari - Naturally Indian Shiites, as well as many Indian Sunnis, were delighted at the establishment of an Islamic Government in Iran in 1979. Muslims in general were emboldened by Iran's raising of the Islamic banner across the world. As far as Indian Shiites are concerned, for the past thirty years they have been delighted by Iranian successes and conversely depressed by Iranian setbacks. If there is disturbance in Iran then the Shiites in India become emotionally and psychologically distressed.

The vast majority of Indian Shiite Muslims follow two Iranian Marjaa Taqlid [11] (Sources of Emulation). The majority follow Grand Ayatollah [Seyed Ali] Sistani, who is based in Iraq but is of Iranian origin. Most of the rest follow Grand Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei, the leader of the Islamic Revolution. However, the great majority of Indian Shiites regard Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamanei as a political leader, even if they don't follow him in a Taqlid (Emulation) context.

Mahan Abedin - Who is your Marjaa Taqlid?

Seyed Mohammad Asgari - I follow Grand Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei. I have personally known him since before the victory of the Islamic Revolution. I regard him as unequalled in honesty and commitment and in possession of the deepest religious, scientific and political knowledge.

Mahan Abedin - Do Indian Shiites view the Kashmir conflict differently to Indian Sunnis?

Seyed Mohammad Asgari - Initially the Shiites had the same aspirations about Kashmir as the Sunnis. But when the sectarian and political problems in Pakistan escalated from the mid 1990s onwards some Shiites reached the conclusion that Kashmir might suffer even worse if it was in Pakistani hands. This perception is reinforced by a steady stream of stories painting a bleak and difficult life for many Shiite residents in Pakistani-held Kashmir. However, I must stress that there are differences of opinion in the Shiite community and there are many Shiites who dissent from this view. In any case, Shiites are not happy with the present situation in Kashmir either. Clearly India has a problem in Kashmir and there is a widespread feeling that injustices are being inflicted on the Muslim population in Indian-held Kashmir.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Jan 2011 20:44

^ Gives some perspective.

First and foremost it is muslims vs others world view and then us vs others within islam itself. If not for the religion, I wonder what else could be the motivation behind such thought process?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 12 Jan 2011 22:23

http://eenadu.net/breakhtml.asp?qry=break54

Hyderabad police have banned flying kites near "prayer houses" during the 14th and 15th

I couldnt make head or tail out of this order. Those three days are the ONLY days in hyderabad when kites are flown. So basically they have banned flying kites near "prayer houses".

Which are the "prayer houses" they are expecting trouble. I dont remember last time any disturbances during this time. Is any other festival going on at this time?

Why this order?? I have no idea.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Jan 2011 22:33

They do not want to give any reason to anyone to start a political riot in the garb of religious sentiments. They have to worry about two factors

1. YSJ - History of YSR induced riots to remove Channa Reddy govt
2. INC-T - To hurt current govt (as they are not able to influence govt with their resignation threats and are worried about subdued t-movement)

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 12 Jan 2011 23:12

Hundreds block Delhi's Jungpura flyover after DDA demolishes mosque

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 13 Jan 2011 13:23

http://www.dailypioneer.com/310162/Sile ... India.html

SILENT INVASION

Practitioners of cynical politics and preachers of tolerance have convinced us illegal immigration from Bangladesh is a myth. It’s a grim reality.

Those who stand to gain from the votes of India’s bogus citizens as well as those who believe that there is nothing sacred about nationality, leave alone the nation, have successfully struck the issue of illegal immigration from Bangladesh off the agenda of public discourse. Practitioners of cynical vote-bank politics and fake secularism, who also happen to extol tolerance of the intolerable as the litmus test of liberalism, have united to erase what should have agitated every Indian from the collective consciousness of this nation. And they have succeeded in doing so. Nothing else explains why illegal immigration from Bangladesh finds no mention in either political debate or policy deliberation. Any effort, no matter how feeble, to raise the issue is met not only with fierce resistance but slander and worse.

Yet, the indisputable fact is that Assam and the other States in India’s North-East, as also West Bengal and Bihar, continue to face a relentless tide of illegal immigrants from Bangladesh. This ‘silent invasion’ by millions of people over the years has been encouraged by the Congress and the CPI(M), apart from their ‘natural’ allies, who swear by virtuous secularism and high falutin constitutionalism only to violate it in practice. Illegal immigrants are not only encouraged by these parties to enter India they are also provided with ‘documents’ to help them settle on land that belongs to others. Their names are entered on voters lists, thus creating a vast vote-bank of aliens who legally have no right to vote in India. This fraud has been perpetrated over the decades and the Congress has been its beneficiary in Assam while in West Bengal the Left has used Bangladeshis to inflate its vote-share significantly. Elsewhere, others have been similarly tempted.

After the Assam Accord of 1985, the Illegal Migrants (Determination by Tribunal) Act — popularly known as the IMDT Act — was passed with the explicit purpose of detecting and deporting Bangladeshis from Assam. However, the IMDT Act failed to serve its stated purpose due to several inherent flaws, among them placing the burden of proving a person’s nationality on the state instead of the individual. In 2005, the Supreme Court struck down the IMDT Act as unconstitutional, while observing, “There can be no manner of doubt that the State of Assam is facing external aggression and internal disturbance on account of large-scale illegal migration of Bangladeshi nationals and it becomes the duty of the Union of India to take all measures for protection of the State of Assam because it poses a threat to the integrity and security of the North-Eastern region.”

The Supreme Court directed the Government to deal with all cases of illegal immigration in accordance with the Foreigners Act as well as the procedure prescribed by the Foreigners (Tribunals) Order of 1964. And what did the UPA Government do? A year later, in 2006, it slyly amended the Foreigners (Tribunals) Order of 1964 so that the Foreigners Act would not apply to Assam. In other words, illegal immigrants would remain undetected and undeported. Not to be deterred by this sleight of hand by the Congress-led regime in New Delhi in collusion with the party’s Government in Dispur, the Supreme Court ruled in December 2006 that “the amendment by the 2006 order has been issued just as a cover-up for non-implementation of the earlier direction of this court... We have to lament once again that there is a lack of will in the matter of ensuring that illegal immigrants are sent out of the country”. The Supreme Court quashed the 2006 order and once again directed the Union Government and the Government of Assam to “forthwith implement” its 2005 direction to detect and deport illegal immigrants under the Foreigners Act.

There may not be sufficient political will to detect and deport foreigners from Indian soil, but there’s tremendous will to protect illegal immigrants. In Assam, street violence was manufactured by the Congress to halt detection of Bangladeshis under the Foreigners (Tribunal) Order of 1964. Faced by a mob baying for the blood of officials, the police fired to disperse the rioters. The next day Chief Minister Tarun Gogoi ordered a halt to the process. And thereby hangs a tale of subversion. In West Bengal, the situation is no better. The CPI(M) has not even bothered to generate violence to stop the detection and deportation of Bangladeshis; it has simply instructed its cadre to facilitate their settlement as ‘Indian nationals’, often at the expense of genuine citizens: Bengali farmers have woken up in the morning to find Bangladeshis squatting on their land; shops and small businesses have changed hands through distress sale engineered by the party faithful; homesteads left vacant for a day have been grabbed.

The demographic change caused by illegal immigration is irrefutable. Census reports between 1971 and 2001 reflect significant imbalance in the growth of Hindu and Muslim populations in Assam and West Bengal compared to the national average. This abnormal trend confirms that illegal immigration is both unrestricted and unabated. The demographic change caused by illegal immigration has had serious security, political, social and economic consequences. Illegal Bangladeshi immigrants live in ghettos and are prone to religious extremism, and are thus easy recruits for terrorist organisations aided and abetted by Pakistan. Those immigrants who move on to other States across India carry with them radical views and many serve as scouts and foot soldiers for ISI-backed terrorist outfits like HuJI and LeT.

The demographic disbalance that has resulted from illegal immigration has begun influencing the outcome of elections in a large number of Assembly and Lok Sabha constituencies. With immigrants voting en bloc for their political patrons, the chances of other contestants are automatically reduced and even wiped out. This has created an uneven playing field and gives an unfair advantage to the Congress and the Communists. A set of statistics from Assam will demonstrate this point. In 1991 there were 1.18 crore voters in Assam. By 2001, this had increased to 1.44 crore voters; in 2010, the State had 1.79 crore voters. An increase of 61 lakh voters in two decades is by no means accounted for by natural growth of the State’s population.

This phenomenon is not limited to the North-East, West Bengal and the border districts of Bihar. In cities like Delhi, Mumbai and even Jaipur, illegal Bangladeshi immigrants have begun to make their presence felt at election time.

The social impact of this silent invasion is two-fold. First, there is subterranean rage against illegal immigrants and the demographic change caused by them which, in turn, often leads to conflict and violence. The rioting at Deganga in West Bengal on the eve of Durga Puja last year illustrates this trend. Second, both majority and minority communities develop a siege mentality which feeds on fear and insecurity. This is least desirable. Linked to this is the economic aspect of illegal immigration. Local wages, especially in the unskilled sector, are being undercut; farmland is being encroached upon; and urban slums are coming up at an alarming rate. In many ways, Bangladesh is turning into India’s Mexico. Tragically, the Government chooses to ignore the reality; the media pretends the reality does not exist. Such are the wages of ‘tolerance’.

-- Follow the writer on: http://twitter.com/KanchanGupta. Blog on this and other issues at http://kanchangupta.blogspot.com. Write to him at [email protected]

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 13 Jan 2011 13:31

^^ arjunm, you beat me to it

One question I have is how will National ID project solve this? All these illegal migrants will get the cards and be legitimised.
I think BJP should really bring this issue in a big way in the public mind , atleast in Northeast. But then with the way they are now, it seems to be hoping for too much

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 13 Jan 2011 13:34

Using ‘Hindu terror' to grab headlines

In the mid-1970s, when the Soviet Union was still around, there appeared a Red Joke Book in time for the Christmas market. The nice thing about the collection was its indiscriminate irreverence: it mocked both the capitalist West and the socialist East. One Stalin joke is worth repeating.

A delegation from his native Georgia, it seems, left Stalin's office after a long meeting. After they had left, Stalin realised that he couldn't find his favourite pipe. He promptly summoned the notorious Beria to find out if anyone from the delegation had purloined it. However, after some time, while rummaging through his own things, Stalin located the pipe under his table. He promptly telephoned Beria and asked him to release the Georgian visitors. “I am sorry Comrade”, replied the KGB boss, “but half the delegation has already admitted taking your pipe, and the other half died during questioning.”

At the risk of doing the newly-formed National Investigation Authority a colossal disservice, this Stalin joke came to mind upon reading the official drip-feed accounts of the confessions of Swami Aseemananda, the Bengali sadhu who is making headlines. It is not that there is any reason to disbelieve Aseemananda's statement, made before a Magistrate and therefore admissible in court, and equate it with the confessions Beria secured. My sources suggest that the swami made his statement voluntarily because he was insistent on telling the truth regardless of the consequences. The swami apparently believes that retributive terror is morally justified and may even say so in court.

Aseemananda's apparent determination to emerge as another Nathuram Godse fighting for a misplaced ideal is his own business. Such beliefs (if indeed he holds them) have no place in democratic life and any sympathy for such extremism is unwarranted. However, my concerns are different.

First, the confession is an important input into the investigations of at least four terrorist strikes that occurred between 2006 and 2007. Aseemananda was well connected with the network of extremist Hindus who believed in an eye-for-an-eye approach. It doesn't seem he was involved in the operational aspects of the bombings but he certainly provided intellectual inspiration and may even have given logistical and financial assistance to the field operatives. Every lead he has provided has to be rigorously pursued and examined, not least because catching the real culprits of the bombings is a national obligation for the investigative agencies. Equally, the investigators have to collect corroborative evidence so that the prosecution cases are able to withstand judicial scrutiny.

Given the inordinate importance of Aseemananda's confessional statement, it is bewildering that it has been supplied to the media even before all the leads provided by him have been pursued and suspects either interrogated or arrested. Any criminal lawyer will readily admit that the premature release of the prosecution's evidence can forewarn others who may be involved and enable them to take evasive action. So, why did the government make this statement available to the media last week?

The answer is self-evident: to extract every drop of political mileage from the confession and use it as another prop in the “Hindu terror” charge of the Congress against the BJP. Since Rahul Gandhi has been shown to have said that Hindu extremism is more dangerous than jihadi terror, the Breaking News must be made to demonstrate his prescience. Equally, "Hindu terror" constitutes a parallel narrative to the national preoccupation with Congress corruption.

That the government can risk compromising the larger investigation for two days of headlines is revealing. It is a pointer to the cynical politicisation of criminal investigations in India.

Secondly, there is something extremely curious about the way in which there is a rush to suggest that the Samjhauta Express bombing of February 18, 2007 was the handiwork of a gang headed by a RSS pracharak. With ruling out the possibility entirely, it would seem that Aseemananda's testimony doesn't provide any meaningful leads. It suggests that one Sunil Joshi had boasted to him that his men had carried out the bombings, and that even Aseemananda had discounted the claim.

In an ideal situation, the investigations have to find corroborative evidence to substantiate the point. Were the “Hindu” desperadoes technically equipped to make such sophisticated bombs? Did they have the logistical wherewithal to carry out the operation?

There is a larger international dimension as well. The US investigators have claimed, based on inputs from sources in Pakistan, that it was a Lashkar-e-Tayyeba squad under Arif Usmani that had carried out the blasts. This was an important basis for the UN Security Council decision to brand the LeT a terrorist organisation, a decision that has international ramifications. Does Aseemanda's testimony overturn these conclusions?

The answer is: highly unlikely. The theory that the Sunil Joshi gang carried out such an audacious operation can't yet be substantiated.(This part should be a text book definition of Zeehadi Secularists) But at the same time, to say so makes fantastic headlines at a time of political turbulence: BJP linked to terror, Zero losses in 2-G!

Where the country is yearning for a robust and rigorous approach to the war on terror where the culprits must be apprehended regardless of their political and religious cover, the government is seeking to earn political brownie points. Just like Beria did.

tp://www.dailypioneer.com/309363/Using-%E2%8 ... lines.html

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 13 Jan 2011 16:23

Counterterrorism reception at US Embassy. The reception was attended by numerous dignitaries and officials, including Home Secretary Pillai, Deputy Secretary Lute, Department of Homeland Security and Telecom Secretary Chandrasekhar.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/usembassyn ... 351737524/

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Jan 2011 16:35

NIA files chargesheet against SIMI Vagamon terror camp case

The National Investigation Agency (NIA) on Thursday filed chargesheet in the December 2007 Vagamon SIMI arms training camp case naming 30 accused, who are involved in various terrorists cases in the country, including the Ahmedabad serial blast case of 2008.

The camp was conducted with an intention to train the participants to advocate, incite and abet unlawful terrorist activities, disrupt communal harmony and causing threat to the sovereignty and integrity of the country, thereby waging war against lawfully established Government of India, NIA stated in the chargesheet filed before the CBI Special court judge S. Vijay Kumar.

All the 30 are accused in the 2008 Gujarat serial blast case. Twenty nine were arrested and are lodged in Sabarmati Central Jail, Ahmedabad, while one accused is absconding.

Though there is no adequate prosecutable evidence against seven other accused, who are absconding, the NIA decided conduct further investigation against them.

Investigation has revealed that in and around November 2007, office bearers and functionaries of SIMI entered into a criminal conspiracy in Choral, Indore in Madhya Pradesh and other places to conduct training camps for their active cadres. Accordingly, they have conducted camps at Karnataka, Madhya Pradesh and Gujarat. From Dec 10-12, 2007, they organised a secret training camp at Thangalpara in Vagamon within the limits of Munakayam police station in Kottayam.

Oral evidence gathered from witnesses and documentary evidences collected during the investigation established that in the camp the accused were engaged in physical training, arms training, firing practice, manufacture of petrol bombs, motor bike racing and rope climbing.

Forensic evidence collected from the scene of the crime confirmed that explosives were used in the camp. Similarly, training on preparing of petrol bombs and its use could be established from the crime scene and subsequent forensic examination.

In the camp, classes on ‘Jihad in India’ were also held.

Of the 30 accused, who are all active cadres of SIMI, four are from Kerala, 9 from Karnataka, 10 from Gujarat, 8 from Madhya Pradesh, 2 from Jharkhand, 3 from Uttar Pradesh and one from Maharashtra.

The accused previous and subsequent conduct such as Ahmedabad serial blast established that they also conspired to incite communal feelings and thereby create communal disharmony and feelings of enemity between different religious communities, causing threat to the integrity of the country.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 13 Jan 2011 16:54

I think SIMI's Safdar Nagori also confessed regarding Samjhauta blasts and now Swamy Aseemanand also confessed. What is going on here?
Either they both collaborated!!!!! or one of the confession is a lie

2 confessions

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 13 Jan 2011 19:06

anybody caught by police would confess to anything. That is why there is 162 & 164

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 13 Jan 2011 20:03

chaanakya wrote:anybody caught by police would confess to anything. That is why there is 162 & 164

But two confessions from two people for the same crime, would only bring down both the cases down IMHO. If Aseemanand's fans are watching for all this, all they require is to bring it up to the courts. And in any case, the police needs to come up with evidence. Let us see what information is revealed by Aseemanand in police custody, and how the police plans to corroborate the evidence. But if the whole idea behind this was a "trial by media", in that case the purpose of the arrest is pretty much served. Leave it to the pseudo-seculars to be the prosecution and the judge all at one go.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 13 Jan 2011 23:03

Was it not the case that the explosive used in samjhauta express was some sophisticated kind and it took quite some time figure it out? Where did the 'hindu extremist' pick up this skill.....

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 13 Jan 2011 23:43

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/sunil ... 110111.htm
Sunil Joshi, NOT Aseemanand the mastermind behind Samjhauta blasts

The story is changing day by day... The dead guy did it but Assmanad know because the dead guys admitted to him. Assemanand not directly involved. You guys see the CON game now? Without losing the case, they can keep spinning conspiracy theories for Muslim vote...

While the National Investigation Agency is convinced that Swami Aseemanand, a Hindu right-wing leader, was involved in the Samjhauta Express blasts that killed 68 people in 2007, they feel that he is not the mastermind behind the attack. The swami's confessions point out that though he was aware of the attack, it was planned by Sunil Joshi, Aseemanand's alleged right hand man, who was murdered in mysterious circumstances in Dewas in Madhya Pradesh [ Images ] on December 29, 2007.

The NIA has announced a Rs 10 lakh cash reward each for Sandeep Dange and Ramchandra Kalsangra -- the suspects in the case named by Aseemanand in his confession. However, another name that appears in NIA's most-wanted list in this case is that of Ashok who goes by the alias Amit. The investigators have announced a reward of Rs 2 lakh for information on the third suspect.

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 14 Jan 2011 00:00

May have been already posted before - does not seem like anymore, actually northeast and the east are gone....
Indian coins being turned into razors in Bangladesh

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/419 ... azors.html

Six razor blades can be made from a single Rs five coin. Each blade sells for Rs 2, police sources said.
"This has been going on for quite some time now. We are looking into it," RBI Executive Director H R Khan said, when asked to comment.
According to police reports, the coins were initially smuggled into Bangladesh for being made into coins, but now the same thing is being done on this side of the border as well.
Khan said the metallic content of the 5 rupee coins are now being changed.
"We are now changing the metallic content of the Rs 5 coin so that the new ones will not be lucrative for melting. The new metallic content of the cupronickel coin will reduce its the attractiveness for smugglers," the ED said.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 14 Jan 2011 00:03

rohitvats wrote:Was it not the case that the explosive used in samjhauta express was some sophisticated kind and it took quite some time figure it out? Where did the 'hindu extremist' pick up this skill.....

Col. Prohit.