The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

[Sanku]

Ofcourse. Anything wrong in assuming Indian nationalists are powerless, weak. Would they do anything without strong foreign backing or overt support from Indian groups

And there are no nationalist groups in India in your opinion eh?

. Is there enough personal conviction in even a single Indian to get up and fight injustice all by himself in this current generation.

Anna hazare belongs to a past generation. He is an exception.

And Baba Ramdev?

[Arjun]

Does anybody have any idea what the specific areas of disagreement are that remain between AH and the government ? Looks like PM being under scope & judiciary being kept out can be agreed to by both sides...so which are the remaining issues which are roadblocks?

link

Thanks! This is dated 19th though....given that team AH is on the side of transparency, they should have updated after the latest round of talks.

All of AH points are worth continuing the agitation for...excepting for (1) including judiciary (which AH is willing to compromise on assuming judicial accountability bill is drafted appropriately) & (2) including retail corruption ie lower level bureacracy in Lokpal. There needs to be a separate bill for retail corruption (Jairam Ramesh is working on that....and team AH can continue to add value on that side without holding up the Lokpal bill).

[habal]

And Baba Ramdev?

Yea. And he covered himself with glory.

[rahulm]

Some key differences in MKG and AH's approach have been articulated by others earlier, particularly that MKG never promised freedom.A very astute approach.

AH has taken a maximalist position. If AH feels he has little chance of winning this round, better than dying and and becoming a martyr (dead people don't fight) he could retreat tactically with honour intact which will not be hard to do, re-group and relaunch.

In phase 2, he he could well to take change tactics and launch a "no-bribe movement" (similar to the salt march) day/week/month/whatever in which no one will pay any bribes in any government offices and to any government person for the duration of the movement. Build it up from this point on to culminate in systemic reforms to tackle corruption.

MKG gradually built up and ratcheted the pressure on the Brits through a series of smaller movements (all along gauging the people's mood and response) before finally launching the big mother of them all the "Quit India" movement.

[Sanku]

And Baba Ramdev?

Yea. And he covered himself with glory.

Actually yes he did. He was a game changer. Tubelights will also realize that in some time.

[Altair]

Secondly, especially in the case of Corporations, some Grace Period will be negotiated. For example: let us say Company X has won a contract based on grey-area business practices, for which it had to pay bribes to the GOI. To ensure the continuity of business... a very important thing for India Inc's image and the country's financial health... Company X will not be prosecuted immediately. It will be given some Grace Period of say, 12-24 months to execute all outstanding orders; but it will be monitored to ensure that it cleans up its act within that period, and any future violations will be prosecuted.

RD
Tata,Reliance and other import export based companies rely heavily on bribing. They simply cannot do without bribing. It is the fundamental aspect of their Business culture. They will definitely freak out. I may be counting chickens before the eggs are laid. But I think part of corporate India will also oppose this bill. That would be distasteful.
Altair

[Arjun]

Mahesh Bhatt's Fascist Remark irks Annas supporters

This is a key problem with Mahesh Bhatt and other leftist types who accuse AH of fascism. These guys don't have the mental capacity to figure out what which points make logical sense and which ones don't. Basically logic and science for them, in the ultimate analysis, are fascist - after all, they lead to certainty in one's views !!

[habal]

Actually yes he did. He was a game changer. Tubelights will also realize that in some time.

he was a gutless wimp who ran away from facing the police in a dupatta. The game changer.

[Theo_Fidel]

These fears for the Indian economy/business are quite misplaced. The way I read it the Lokpal is not an out and out investigative agency. It is a simple grievance redress agency. All consensual corruption will continue as before as long as no one reports it. There even seem to be limits on third party filing of cases.

So why exactly are we fighting for the lokpal. Good question....

[shivajisisodia]

RD
Tata,Reliance and other import export based companies rely heavily on bribing. They simply cannot do without bribing. It is the fundamental aspect of their Business culture. They will definitely freak out. I may be counting chickens before the eggs are laid. But I think part of corporate India will also oppose this bill. That would be distasteful.
Altair

Oh wow, Tata's and other import export based companies will not like a world without corruption. Parts of Corporate India will not like that world either. Reliance too ??

Wow, we cant have Tata's, importers/exporters and Reliance too mad and freaking out.

Lets just give up the whole campaign and go home. Ana, go home.

[Pranav]

Interesting but long article on Arvind Kejriwal
http://www.caravanmagazine.in/PrintThis ... oryId=1050

Nice article. Kejriwal seems to be a very solid guy.

[Philip]

We were discussing corruption and bribes with a former top ex. of a heavweight blue-chip co.He categorically told us that he never bribed anyone and preferred to wait for approvals.However,in many cases he admitted ,smaller cos. to whom the work was outsourced,did a "turn-key" op and they had no alternative but to look after the govt. depts.This is how the so-called "honest" cos. manage their affairs.

The GOI /UPA appears to be in no mood to sign its own death warrant.They prefer that Anna signs his! The strategy is for him to ruin hs halth or even collect his "boarding pass",rather than lose the fruits of their office,which has a few more years to run.They hope that once the tumult and shouting dies down,it will be business as usual.A weak watered down bill which in fact protects the corrupt will ultimately be passed and they hope that AAna H will be another footnote in India's history,brief and comet like.

What they do not rea;lsie that this movement has attracted the youth of the nation in huge numbers.They are hungry and angry and if their rage takees on a non-gandhian approach,we could have another Netaji inspired replacement for the gandhian approach or the ranks of the Naxals/Maoists will swell.Man Mubarak Singh,you have "sowed the wind ,now reap the whirlwind!"

[Arjun]

The way I read it the Lokpal is not an out and out investigative agency.

It IS an investigative agency....your understanding is wrong. The difference from the CBI is that CBI is not independent whereas the Lokpal will be independent.

The evidence built up by it though would obviously have to be decided upon by the judiciary.

[shivajisisodia]

All consensual corruption will continue as before as long as no one reports it. There even seem to be limits on third party filing of cases.

Phew...........thank heavens.

[Altair]

RD
Tata,Reliance and other import export based companies rely heavily on bribing. They simply cannot do without bribing. It is the fundamental aspect of their Business culture. They will definitely freak out. I may be counting chickens before the eggs are laid. But I think part of corporate India will also oppose this bill. That would be distasteful.
Altair

Oh wow, Tata's and other import export based companies will not like a world without corruption. Parts of Corporate India will not like that world either. Reliance too ??

Wow, we cant have Tata's, importers/exporters and Reliance too mad and freaking out.

Lets just give up the whole campaign and go home. Ana, go home.

It is pretty clear who is freaking out here

[sumishi]

All consensual corruption will continue as before as long as no one reports it. There even seem to be limits on third party filing of cases.

Phew...........thank heavens.

Hey. What have you been up to??

[Theo_Fidel]

Arjun the CBI vigilance unit can only loosely be called investigative.

[Singha]

CBI and IB have become tools for political masters of any regime to target and spy on rival politicians and industrialists.

its time to disband these outfits, maybe shift some of them under lokpal as the foot soldiers if that happens. honest officers might seek such a transfer to avoid bowing to political diktats.

[shivajisisodia]

I am all for eliminating corruption as long as it does not negatively impact the value of my Reliance Industries and Tata Steel stock

[Arjun]

RD
Tata,Reliance and other import export based companies rely heavily on bribing. They simply cannot do without bribing. It is the fundamental aspect of their Business culture. They will definitely freak out. I may be counting chickens before the eggs are laid. But I think part of corporate India will also oppose this bill. That would be distasteful.
Altair

Your understanding is not correct. Corporate India mostly wants a level playing ground. As long as the perception was that the 'other guy' was bribing to win deals, corporates (not all of them but most) were OK with themselves doing so so as not to be left out.

But most of them would be fine with a playing field that confers no advantage to ANY party that indulges in bribing.

[sumishi]

I am all for eliminating corruption as long as it does not negatively impact the value of my Reliance Industries and Tata Steel stock

[OT]. IMO, you better get out of the stock market for the next one year. After that, you will yourself know what to do...

[vishvak]

RD
Tata,Reliance and other import export based companies rely heavily on bribing. They simply cannot do without bribing. It is the fundamental aspect of their Business culture. They will definitely freak out. I may be counting chickens before the eggs are laid. But I think part of corporate India will also oppose this bill. That would be distasteful.
Altair

Your understanding is not correct. Corporate India mostly wants a level playing ground. As long as the perception was that the 'other guy' was bribing to win deals, corporates (not all of them but most) were OK with themselves doing so so as not to be left out.

But most of them would be fine with a playing field that confers no advantage to ANY party that indulges in bribing.

Without bribes, the Govt. employees will have to work to improve society that they otherwise ignore and go around by taking bribes.

The difference between action and Karma is that Karma is also about responsible actions done well. Not just 'taking' bribe as an action == Karma.

[habal]

Just making CBI & IB independent is enough to rid them of most disease. Aam aadmi is fighting against cutting-edge corruption at RTO, passport office, village office, registrar's office etc. MNC are funding for a different kind of fight, where political oversight and control is reduced over their operations. But if they have to win, they have to completely break down the system, whereas the common man's irritation can be taken care of by cleaning up the 'cutting-edge' of bureaucracy.

How many raids has CBI done in PDS (those kerosene adultrators, rice/wheat pilferers), when everyone knows that corruption is rampant ? These can be easily cleaned up provided there is some will to do so at the top.

[skumar]

Vishwabandhu Gupta interview:

http://www.chauthiduniya.com/2011/08/an ... ister.html

+1

Love this guy! He would be my first choice as the Lok Pal. If he becomes Lok Pal, we would not be an occupied country any longer.

[a_kumar]

I can't believe BRFites are falling for this "middle class driving the movement" perception carefully created by the English Media. Its bad enough that CNN-IBN/NDTV are trying to pit middle class with lower class, minorities with majority to serve the Congress.

Why are we falling for that divide-and-rule policy.

Lets consider the typical political meetings where the motivation often tends to be incentives offered (aka bribes). This brings out a particular working class to the meetings.

However, in the current movement, there is no such incentive offered. On top of that this brought out working class and middle class.

If one uses typical political gatherings as reference, the delta is "middle class". That does not mean that this is driven by the "middle class". It only means, lower and middle class have become partners.

Let me tell you a story about a peanut farmer in my neck of the woods. About 15 years ago his neighbor a powerful landlord filled a bogus case against him over illegally cropping/occupying some land. It was about 10 sq yds IIRC. The court sentence was 10 years in prison. After 6 months the appeals court quietly suggested a donation be made. About Rs 10,000 exchanged hands and he was set free. This is the experience the really poor have of corruption. Sometimes it is the only option they have of saving their lives. The system might bend to them if they can raise enough money.

A rigid lokpal system might cause quite a bit of harm especially when the system is so deeply deeply unfair and rigged against the really poor.

This is like saying, lets create a small hole in the hen house. Because when the wolf gets in through the main access, hen need something to escape. But then, what about those that can't fit through the hole? and What if something else comes through this hole?

One would think the solution should actually prevent wolf from getting into the hen house.

Coming to your example, what if those farmers that can't pool 10,000? What if it required more money to get him out? Is that really a justification for loose laws?

One would think the solution is to protect the person like your peanut farmer from bogus case (your words) by a powerful landlord (your words). And if Jan Lok Pal has the power to investigate judiciary (don't take that as a vote for that item, I have my reservations), it would be solved. So, if you really want to help your peanut farmer, you should be supporting the Jan LokPal as it exists right now.

I don't see what is cynical at all. Nitish came through the constitutional process did he not. IMHO he has had 1000 times the effect of AH (or for that matter the entire achievements of this 'movement') who only had a tiny village to deal with. People are not opposed to voting for anti-corruption leaders. AMMA, Nitish and even DIDI in recent times have come up through the electoral system. Reform within the system is far far more effective than any attempt at revolution.

What if Nitish becomes corrupt tomorrow or DIDI gets corrupt. Is there a guarantee that they wont? How much should one rely on moral compass of the powerful or wait until all the elected leaders and morally upright? Is that really a winning strategy, I mean that is what we have been doint for 64 years right. What actually happened is that they consolidated more and more power and are sitting on a pile of "conflicts of interests" (they now get the MP funds instead of IAS distributing it previously, they successfully protected themselves from being prosecuted by anybody outside the parliament).

In absense of recall or any similar mechanism to fire the MPs in the 5 year period (I am not sure if we are ready for that yet).. an investigative agency which is not controlled by the government and has the jurisdiction on all govt employees is a big shot in the arm.

How does one ensure LokPal is not corrupt, that is a valid question and can be discussed!

[vishvak]

The way I read it the Lokpal is not an out and out investigative agency.

It IS an investigative agency....your understanding is wrong. The difference from the CBI is that CBI is not independent whereas the Lokpal will be independent.

The evidence built up by it though would obviously have to be decided upon by the judiciary.

Just my 2 paise here.

CBI is more independent than it is perceived. ex:Incredible CBI,
by
The writer, as Chief Justice of India, authored a judgment guaranteeing CBI autonomy.

More here:‘How can the CBI in the same matter keep changing its stand...coinciding with what ruling party wants’

Shekhar Gupta: Even after your judgment? Because he had the protection of the SC

J S Verma: Yes..yes.. he got 6 months extension not from the government, it was from us in the SC and what did they do…they filed half baked charge sheet to get rid of the monitoring bias because then the ordinary criminal jurisdiction would take over and as some people told me they were only waiting for me to retire.

[Neela]

And Baba Ramdev?

Yea. And he covered himself with glory.

Honestly Habal , your potshots at BR are getting quite annoying and cheap!
What glory do you speak of? In what way did he "cover" himself with glory? Your sophistication is limited to forums. He , on the other hand has a far better resume.
And he exposed the depths of depravity the Congress can steep to.
LIke I said, annoying and cheap!

[Dhiman]

We were discussing corruption and bribes with a former top ex. of a heavweight blue-chip co.He categorically told us that he never bribed anyone and preferred to wait for approvals.However,in many cases he admitted ,smaller cos. to whom the work was outsourced,did a "turn-key" op and they had no alternative but to look after the govt. depts.This is how the so-called "honest" cos. manage their affairs.

The GOI /UPA appears to be in no mood to sign its own death warrant.They prefer that Anna signs his! The strategy is for him to ruin hs halth or even collect his "boarding pass",rather than lose the fruits of their office,which has a few more years to run.They hope that once the tumult and shouting dies down,it will be business as usual.A weak watered down bill which in fact protects the corrupt will ultimately be passed and they hope that AAna H will be another footnote in India's history,brief and comet like.

What they do not rea;lsie that this movement has attracted the youth of the nation in huge numbers.They are hungry and angry and if their rage takees on a non-gandhian approach,we could have another Netaji inspired replacement for the gandhian approach or the ranks of the Naxals/Maoists will swell.Man Mubarak Singh,you have "sowed the wind ,now reap the whirlwind!"

Its been sixty+ years after independence and there is an oligarchy that has established itself in the country. The primary means of functioning for this oligarchy is corruption between heredity political, business, criminal, and foreign investment interests. Corruption and black money is the life blood of this oligarchy as corruption money is used to influence and control elections along with help from organized criminals. The oligarchy is heredity, and hence even more dangerous, as their children usually follow in the same footsteps with family connections.

What this oligarchy is doing is eating democracy from within for their own interests. If left unchecked, they will succeed and their will be no hope. The way I see it, this battle is between nationalist and the oligarchy. By hitting corruption, the nationalists are aiming to suck out the life blood of this oligarchy. If the nationalists win, India off course would be a better place. If the oligarchy wins, then they will continue to spread their tentacles throughout Indian democracy (or whatever is left of it) and stifle it from within for personal interests.

This is not about corruption. It is about the future course of the country. Whether we want to see a free country in years to come or one that is democracy only in name, but an oligarchy in reality. Whether personal choice and freedom are only in name, but in reality completely stifled by the oligarchy.

The key difference is near future would be: If the nationalist win India would reassert itself as a democracy where individual citizens feel proud and empowered. If the oligarchy wins, India would be democratic only in perception where individual citizens live discouraged and disheartened lives playing their role as pegs for the oligarchy and living by a script of rules set by the oligarchy.

[Sanku]

Actually yes he did. He was a game changer. Tubelights will also realize that in some time.

he was a gutless wimp who ran away from facing the police in a dupatta. The game changer.

So did Shivaji from Mughal court. I know some congress apologists masquerading as neutral folks would have liked him to die.

Hard luck. He lives and will fight another day, and is the sword on Kejirwals of the world to not kiss and make up with their old partners.

[sumishi]

Its been sixty+ years after independence and there is an oligarchy that has established itself in the country. The primary means of functioning for this oligarchy is corruption between heredity political, business, criminal, and foreign investment interests. Corruption and black money is the life blood of this oligarchy as corruption money is used to influence and control elections along with help from organized criminals. The oligarchy is heredity, and hence even more dangerous, as their children usually follow in the same footsteps with family connections.
...
This is not about corruption. It is about the future course of the country. Whether we want to see a free country in years to come or one that is democracy only in name, but an oligarchy for all practical purposes where personal choice and freedom are only in name, but in reality completely stiffled by the oligarchy.
...

^+10

[Murugan]

And so Subhash Chandra Bose. Instead of facing police and prosecution he ran away from custody of Angrez.

Lord Krishna ran away to Dwarka.

Rana Pratap was hiding in Aravalli Hills

- they all returned with vengeance

[Neela]

he was a gutless wimp who ran away from facing the police in a dupatta. The game changer.

And you are who? Mighty warrior on the Internet? What can you boast of ?
If you had any sense of objectivity you would not steep to these levels. Losing focus on corruption and instead denigrating people who have a far better calibre both personally and in public life.

[Neela]

Just making CBI & IB independent is enough to rid them of most disease. Aam aadmi is fighting against cutting-edge corruption at RTO, passport office, village office, registrar's office etc. MNC are funding for a different kind of fight, where political oversight and control is reduced over their operations. But if they have to win, they have to completely break down the system, whereas the common man's irritation can be taken care of by cleaning up the 'cutting-edge' of bureaucracy.

How many raids has CBI done in PDS (those kerosene adultrators, rice/wheat pilferers), when everyone knows that corruption is rampant ? These can be easily cleaned up provided there is some will to do so at the top.

Oh please spare us this rehash of the same lecture! If you had been following this thread, it would have been quite clear that there is no incentive for the GoI to do that. Have you gone into a ****ing brain freeze or what? If it was so easy, what has the GoI not implemented yet? Why do you think millions of people are supporting BR and AH on this instead of following your sagely advice? Is this what you can spew out apart from hitting BR under the belt?

[Murugan]

This is written in Hindi, but very sarcastic. Translation in english will demean the expression

भ्रष्टाचार प्रधान हमारा देश आजकल अन्ना प्रधान देश हो गया है। गूंगे भी अन्ना की प्रशंसा में धाराप्रवाह बोल रहे हैं। धाराप्रवाह बकवास में माहिर नेता गैस पर रखे कुकर में उछलते आलूओं की तरह अन्ना के समर्थन में भ्रष्टाचार को कोसने की प्रतियोगिता में वीरता चक्र हासिल करने पर आमादा हैं। और-तो-और भिखारियों की मंडली में भी फीलगुड की भावनाएं हिलोरें मारने लगी हैं। फुटपाथ पर बैठकर भीख मांगने और रात में सोने तक के लिए पुलिसवालों को पैसे देने पड़ते थे। जिन्हें बैठकर भीख मांगने के लिए ठीया नसीब नहीं था उन्हें जनगणना की ड्यूटी पर लगे सरकारी मास्टरों की तरह घर-घर जाकर भीख मांगनी पड़ती थी। वे भी इस गोल्डन सप्ताह में ठप्पे से रामलीला मैदान जाकर दो टाइम भरपेट इज्जत की रोटी तो क्या तबीयत से तरह-तरह के माल उड़ा रहे हैं।

मुफ्ते माल दिल बेरहम। सब के सिर पर टोपी है, जिस पर लिखा है- मैं अन्ना हूं। ड्यूटी पर तैनात सिपाही उन्हें पहचानकर ऐसे देख रहा है जैसे कि बकरे को कसाई देखता है। वो गुस्से से बुदबुदाता है- अन्ना ने तो अपनी रोटी मर्ज़ी से छोड़ी मगर हमारी दिहाड़ी जबरदस्ती मार दी। सरकार भी निकम्मी है। हम तो बड़े से बड़ा केस ले-देकर हाल सुलटा देते हैं। यहां पूरी सरकार मिलकर भी एक अदद अन्ना को सेट नहीं कर पा रही। किरण बेदी मैडम तो अपने ही महकमे की दबंग अफसरों में रही हैं। वो भी कुछ नहीं कर पा रहीं। अरे अगर सरकार नहीं मान रही तो अन्ना को ही झुकाने की जुगत लगानी चाहिए। अपनी तो जब से यहां ड्यूटी लगी है रोज की दिहाड़ी मारी जा रही है।

अन्ना तो फौज में रहे हैं उन्हें क्या मालूम पुलिस महकमें का दस्तूर। वो स्साला रामलाल ही फायदे में रहा। जिसकी यहां ड्यूटी नहीं लगी। सभी का हिस्सा अकेले ही डकार रहा होगा। रेड़ीवाले, तहबाजारीवाले सभी पर डंडा फिराकर उसने अपनी जन्माष्टमी तो खूब तबीयत से मनाई होगी। अपनी तो बांसुरी इस अन्ना ने बजा रखी है। अरे कानून व्यवस्था का काम पुलिस का है। हमने रातोंरात बाबा रामदेव को निबटा दिया। कैसे सलवार पहनकर भागा था। भागता कैसे नहीं। पुलिस के डंडे के आगे तो भूत भी लंगोटी छोड़कर भाग जाते हैं। ये सरकार तो खामख्वाह मामले को आगे बढ़ा रही हैं। हमारे महकमे पर ही विश्वास नहीं रहा सरकार का। तो खुद तो डूबेगी ही हमें भी जबरदस्ती उपवास करवाएगी। अरे अगर दम नहीं तो क्या जरूरत थी अन्ना से पंगा लेने की।

हमने कालू से हफ्ता बांध लिया कि नहीं। क्या फायदा लड़ाई-झगड़े में। दोनों का ही नुकसान होता है। इस नासमझ सरकार की तो इज्जत खराब हो ही रही है हमारी भी उसने इज्‍जत के चीथड़े उड़ा दिए। वर्दी में भी ऑन ड्यूटी बीड़ी खरीद के पीनी पड़ रही है। क्या चलेगी ये सरकार। अब तो पत्रकार भी इनकी रोज़ बखिया उधेड़ रहे हैं। हमारे थानेदार साहब मुहल्ले तक के पत्रकार को सेट रखते हैं। यह सरकार होकर भी कुछ नहीं कर पाई। न अन्ना को सेट कर पाई न पैस को। यह ज्यादा दिन नहीं चल पाएगी। क्या करू, अन्ना के साथ एक फोटो खिंचवा ही लूं। वक्त जरूरत काम आएगा।

http://vichar.bhadas4media.com/baton-ba ... 53-46.html

This is about how police is suffering because of AH. This police wala taunts govt that you could not handle Anna nor the (black) money. Look at us how efficient we are we made ramdev fled. Now we have to smoke bidis with our own money. Kiran Bedi, who is actually from us, is hell bent to make us go hungry.

[a_kumar]

Rudradev, wonderful posts.

So what did Sonia do to lessen the risk of a fatal Congress vs. Left schism in future? She started a parallel power center... her Darbar... to reach out to formerly anti-Congress sections of the Left. She wanted to ensure that even those members of the Left who may never have come together with the Congress parliamentary party, would still be loyal to Sonia. Congressl GOI supporting the Maoists in a number of opposition-ruled states, is simply an extension of this policy. Between Third Front/Left MPs who supported Congress in parliament, plus Third Front/Left leaders who became loyal to Sonia as they gained "Civil Society" influence in her Darbar... the Dynasty would control the entire Left-of-Center plus the Congress party, and BJP would stand isolated.

After I read your insiders vs outsiders post, I wasn't onboard as saw the highlighted above as the real game.

It would seem that present "insiders & outsiders", if left to themselves, would have ended up at the same place as we are today. But Sonia madam has successfully cultivated one part of them (insiders as you put it) to soften them up. And it worked as it gave privilaged position to insiders. But the outsiders stayed course (untainted) and continued on their trajectory. I believe this, instead of their intent to please the queen as the engine behind this.

I do'nt believe NAC proved anything to "outsiders" on what civit society can do. The success of RTI has already proved whatever there was to be proved!

At least, that was the plan. It has backfired 400% with the current fireworks. A branch of that Left Civil Society whom Sonia was trying to recruit, has gone independent under the Anna Hazare banner. And their actions are giving the Congress hell. The longer this goes on, the more Congress and the Dynasty stand to lose.

Congress is in total disarray over this backstabbing. All their guns were pointed at Hindu assertiveness, Hindu terrorism etc. All their dirty tricks, their pocket Islamist leaders, their artificially propped up "Dalit" leaders... all these were cultivated as political weapons against the BJP.

Today, Congress is trying to use THESE shills as weapons against the Anna movement... but it is failing.

There is a lot of room for BJP to play without coming outright in support of Anna.

Instead of joining Anna on dias, they can just talk about corruption. They can come with a bill or push for JLPB as private bill themselves. Sanku's update on all-party meeting apart, BJP doesn't seem to display any conviction against corruption (for obvious reasons) and that is causing heartburn to a lot of folks.

[habal]

What can you boast of

ok. You asked for it. I can get right-wing internet warriors knickers in a twist.

Ramdev was not my issue. He is what he is. My issue on the other hand is with those internet warriors who cannot tolerate an alternate point of view without spilling their coffee cup all over the place. Apart from boasting of some superficial qualities, they don't have what it takes to take the fight to the opposite camp. Comparisons with Shivaji, Bose are superfluous, they fought in far worse circumstances.

[Sanku]

What can you boast of

ok. You asked for it. I can get right-wing internet warriors knickers in a twist.

Stop trolling. Folks dont feed the troll.

[AjayKK]

Stop trolling. Folks dont feed the troll.

Its ok since its our Raju ji.

[habal]

Stop trolling. Folks dont feed the troll.

that was not necessary.

[Sanku]

Stop trolling. Folks dont feed the troll.

Its ok since its our Raju ji.

Oh, thanks.