India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

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vishvak
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by vishvak »

Theo_Fidel wrote:If the educated told the elders that they are more comfortable with the safety aspects and have seen dramatic sincere changes and improvements to safety, the elder may rethink their position.
Is it the job of the educated to do this? By which rule? By which authority in absence of Govt. as intermediary? Are these people not willing to listen to ministers and want educated scientists to spend time learning public relations? What is then the Govt good for as an intermediary?

It is the Govt.'s job as an interface & intermediary to communicated & convince each side. When the Govt at center has given up its job, it has come to others to do as much, without any authority. Where is the central Govt here, in fact a central minister did visit and he was ignored (link). Now there is a 15-member committee of experts (link) doing the job of Govt.

Now does this mean that a new set of rules will be made especially for this, burdening the educated after the central Govt. abdicated its responsibilities? How will educated convince others and what type of authority do the educated have here, besides explaining everyone intricacies and what would happen if they are ignored? Why take such a twisted way when Govt. could have avoided the whole protests right from the beginning by good emissaries for convincing each side?

Why should the educated take any blame for this communication gap, especially when the Govt.s at center & state are busy playing favorites & throwing tantrums?
shiv
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by shiv »

Theo_Fidel wrote:to a man the educated have said that they are no longer absolutely certain of the safety of Kudankulam. Nothing I've read on this board tells me the nuclear establishment is taking Fukushima seriously or even bothering to change their ways.
OK. I am out of this after this reply because it is personal for you and I have no business saying anything. Apologies if I caused hurt. But it is your fate that it is your community's ass on the line and your main source of technical safety information is BRF. If the latter observation is correct - well I'm sorry. The matter for you is too serious to trust BRF. If you are "educated" you need to talk to some people in the nuclear establishment.
Theo_Fidel

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Word is that the minister came and mistook a couple of community elders for low caste riff-raff and dismissed them using a painful caste reference. This is why he got shout down and disrespected by otherwise peaceful and hospitable folk. If you listen carefully to one of the IBN TV broadcasts you can hear one of the elders in white with big handlebar mustache complain about 300 years of caste insults from ministers like him. Unfortunate incident that riled up everyone.

In any case he brought nothing new or concrete from Dilli. Just the same old "everything is safe..."
----------------------------------
Shiv,

I'm small potatos only. :) There are others with far more nuclear industry knowledge involved including US & EU. Several dozen work within the nuclear establishment as well. I will say no more.
shiv
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by shiv »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Word is that the minister came and mistook a couple of community elders for low caste riff-raff and dismissed them using a painful caste reference.
Exactly. Dig deeper into India and you find that there is fresh warm yellow shit under the dry black crust. The Nuke team may have scored a massive self goal. Is there an online source for me to see the handlebar man? I don't watch CNN IBN. I have 80 other crappy channels to choose from.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by sanjaykumar »

It might be useful to look at relative risk, opportunity costs and the like.

To expect nuclear plants to be absolutely safe forever is foolish.

But then I don't drive because I might get into an accident. Flying ditto. Stepping out of the house ditto. I don't drink chlorinated water because of the phosgene. I don't se electricity because of CO2 and flyash, polyaromatic hydrocarbons etc.

I don't go to school because the buildings contain asbestos.

I am not too different from the good citizens of.......
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanatanan »

Theo_Fidel wrote: Nothing I've read on this board tells me the nuclear establishment is taking Fukushima seriously or even bothering to change their ways. Their response seems to be, "we know better, Kudankulam is safe, nothing further, go away you little gnats..".
shiv has already responded to the above quote.

Even so, the link below might be found useful. It gives further links to:

(1) A presentation (technical information which can be considered to be in an easy-to-understand format) on what happened at Fukushima. This presentation gives a summary of safety review at NPCIL covering the Fukushima event, post Fukushima review of Indian npps, safety audits conducted after NAPS fire Incident, MAPS Tsunami incident, TMI / Chernobyl accidents, lessons learnt from these events, summary of recommendations by Task Forces, and the actions taken / being taken following these events.

(2) Safety evaluations (7 documents) in the light of the Fukushima event, as applicable to different Indian PHWRs and the two BWRs at Tarapur 1&2. Some of the technical details given in these documents appear to be jargonised. To get a deep understanding, one may have to seek / receive detailed explanations about some of the more technical-sounding points brought out in these reports which have been submitted as a sequel to the safety review of all Indian npps ordered by PM. Nevertheless, perhaps there is enough in them to convince one that the above quote is more out of angst and perception rather than reality.

LINK
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by shiv »

Sanatanan wrote: Even so, the link below might be found useful. It gives further links to:

LINK
Sanatanan, it appears to me that the problem is not so much technical as psychological now.

If you have concerns about a nuclear plant (or anything - even a power transformer) near where you live and I am in charge I can speak to you in 2 ways:
1. I can say, "I understand your concerns. I can see the pain that this is causing your people. I genuinely want to address those concerns in a way that everyone benefits. Here is the information I have. I will be happy to hear anything you have to say"

2. Alternatively I can say "You stupid low caste parayan. Anti national traitorous converts licking Pope's ass! Begone and take your crowd of illiterate beggars with you"

Analyses of thousands of court cases against doctors have shown that a doctor who speaks like example 1 above can get away with murder. But the doctor who speaks like example 2 above may be the best doctor on earth but he will get his pants sued off before he can say "chaddi"

If that communication error has been made, the best technical information is useless.
Theo_Fidel

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Sanatanan,

I looked at those 'evaluations' and you lost me at the very first page. Look who did it (NPCIL) and the complete lack of author names. The fox should not be doing evaluation reports on its performance watching the chicken house. This was lesson #1 from Fukushima. Completely ignored so far. Group think is devastating. There is no dissenting opinion. There should be people willing to put their ass on the line if their report misses something. In the absence of that it is hard to take it seriously.

Lessons of Fukushima were not about big Tsunami and explosions. It is how a 6M sea wall became confidently cited as adequate in a area known to receive 30 m Tsunamis. In living memory. Group Think.

An independent agency willing to hold the nuclear establishments feet to the fire is required. Even the Railways uses a Commissioner of Railway Safety (CRS) from a completely independent agency, at least for new construction if not for operations. With a view to the seriousness of nuclear reactors, IMHO at least Two/Three independent agencies cross checking one another is required.

Shiv,

The V Narayanaswamy comment came from living on the East coast of TN. It is acceptable to use the term he used there but is no longer acceptable down south. Other than losing the crowd and getting yelled at he did not do much damage.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

I hate to say this, but this situation was indeed expected to happen for a while. Forget Kundakulam, two people have been shot in Jaitapur on such issues as well. Mamata didi has apparently canceled the state govt land permission for a plant where a US plant was supposed to come up.

Certainly there is a common thread of gross incompetency (of formulation of policy and dissemination) at Central GoI level which has led to this.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanatanan »

shiv wrote: Sanatanan, it appears to me that the problem is not so much technical as psychological now.

If you have concerns about a nuclear plant (or anything - even a power transformer) near where you live and I am in charge I can speak to you in 2 ways:
1. I can say, "I understand your concerns. I can see the pain that this is causing your people. I genuinely want to address those concerns in a way that everyone benefits. Here is the information I have. I will be happy to hear anything you have to say"

2. Alternatively I can say "You stupid low caste parayan. Anti national traitorous converts licking Pope's ass! Begone and take your crowd of illiterate beggars with you"
shiv,

As one following the Koodangulam saga since its early days mainly through media reports (inspite of my preference for indigenous PHWRs), I know of at least one instance when the first method you suggested was followed. As early as in the second half of the 1990s (I do not now have the exact date), a public Seminar was organised (mainly in Tamil language) at Sundaranar College / University in Tirunelveli to explain all the features including safety features of the (then proposed) VVER plants at Koodangulam. Many from the project area, including intellectuals, professors, and teachers apart from others, attended the seminar. In those days concerns expressed by the affected population in the area, about the off-take of water from a source called "Pechipparrai Dam" were much in the news. I understand that the Project, when it becomes operational (gets connected to the grid), will make and use desalinated sea water not only for internal plant consumption, but also make the excess capacity available for the use of the population, thus minimising, if not eliminating, drawl from the Pechipparrai reservoir.

I also remember to have come across news reports indicating that groups of people from Koodangulam area were taken to operating plants at Kalpakkam and Tarapur as a part of the programme to enhance Public Awareness. This too may have been repeated many times. I would believe that the above are not just isolated examples of interactions between GOI and local population and that continual efforts to engage with and communicate have been there.

An implied conclusion that such interactions have not taken place may not be a fair one.

However I agree with you that the problem could be more psycological than technical; on the other hand, it could be due to some reasons other than these two, too.

----------------------

Theo_Fidel,

Author-names of the reports may be found in pages 5/68 and 6/68 in the very first URL titled "Presentation" given in the link that I had posted earlier (which could be treated just as a "contents" page).
shiv
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by shiv »

Sanatanan wrote:
However I agree with you that the problem could be more psycological than technical; on the other hand, it could be due to some reasons other than these two, too.
Well both you and Theo Fidel are agreed that the pisko bit is not that important. If that is ruled out it is either technical, or political or both.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

Sanatanan wrote:However I agree with you that the problem could be more psychological than technical; on the other hand, it could be due to some reasons other than these two, too.
Certainly, Fukushima has created a scare. But, I doubt if the fisherfolk in these areas would have been able to grasp the magnitude of or the reasons for that calamity. I am sure that even more educated people here on the BRf would not be able to follow fully a technical briefing on the safety or otherwise of the KKNPP. It is far easier to arouse fear among the simple folk than douse it. Now, some of those spearheading the agitation might be genuinely opposed to nuclear energy (similar people are in large numbers all over the world), some others might have fears about their lives and livelihood and yet some others might have an entirely different agenda. We can do nothing about the first category except ignoring them until they become a nuisance wih law and order issues. The second category can be 'converted' through genuine efforts by GoI/TN/DAE and discussions at their level. AERB must review KKNPP and look into the safety aspects in the situation of multiple failures as happened in Fukushima and explain it all in simple terms to these fisherfolk. The third category of people and their backers must be isolated and dealt with severely.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Altair »

SSridhar wrote:
Sanatanan wrote:However I agree with you that the problem could be more psychological than technical; on the other hand, it could be due to some reasons other than these two, too.
Certainly, Fukushima has created a scare. But, I doubt if the fisherfolk in these areas would have been able to grasp the magnitude of or the reasons for that calamity.
There is a talk that if another Tsunami touches the nuclear plant,millions will die in and around the plant. Many educated are buying it and spreading the news. We cannot blame them because these people paid dearly to Tsunami and cannot do all over again. Sometimes fear can be a powerful motivator. Unless this fear is addressed we will be at square 1 for a long time.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by gakakkad »

if a tsunami arises lakh would die due to the tsunami not due to the plant.... try keeping an oil-refinery or a thermal plant there and see what happens in a tsunami...
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanatanan »

AIADMK set to sweep Tamil Nadu civic polls . (ExpressBuzz quoting IANS, Last Updated : 21 Oct 2011 04:35:12 PM IST)
. . .

Going by the trends, AIADMK is all set to clinch the 10 corporations in the state - Chennai, Madurai, Coimbatore, Salem, Erode, Tiruppur, Tirunelveli, Tiruchirapalli and Vellore.

. . .

The Congress established leads in seven town panchayats. The BJP has also established leads in four town panchayats in the Kanyakumari district.

. . .
I am not quite sure to which segment the Koodangulam area belongs. Expect to come to know soon enough.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Vipul »

Its interesting how the Con(grass) govt is determined to go ahead with the Jaitapur plant in Maharashtra whereas wants to obstruct in TN and WB. Would be interesting to see how it reacts to the one proposed at Mithi Vardi in Gujarat.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Virupaksha »

Vipul wrote:Its interesting how the Con(grass) govt is determined to go ahead with the Jaitapur plant in Maharashtra whereas wants to obstruct in TN and WB. Would be interesting to see how it reacts to the one proposed at Mithi Vardi in Gujarat.
pretty simple, allow the satraps and chamchas to do all the talking while Kings and queens rule over them silently. If that causes, timelines to be missed, costs increased ten fold, some people die and livelihoods thrashed, so be it - dynasty's name will not be muddled for these small issues.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by vishvak »

Vipul wrote:Its interesting how the Con(grass) govt is determined to go ahead with the Jaitapur plant in Maharashtra whereas wants to obstruct in TN and WB. Would be interesting to see how it reacts to the one proposed at Mithi Vardi in Gujarat.
As also the fact that the talk of caste etc that came out of nowhere, was due to the central Govt. Guess who muddled the waters, not the scientists.

What has center got to lose if such lose talk is added in the discourse? Who gains?
Theo_Fidel

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Theo_Fidel »

S,

Yes I did see those name but it is curious that every single one works for NPCIL and did not put their names on the report itself.

Kudankulam is just barely over the border in Tirunelveli Kattaboman district.

Technical aspects are hard to understand for even educated people but the people who could help, those from the community from within the Nuclear agencies and retired are barred from speaking out. This is precisely why a hound dog type technical safety agency is required. Let me point out that there is a lot of quiet support for this from with the establishment itself. So why the big rush to start Kudankulam before making these improvements.

-----------------------------------------------------
Attempts to isolate the 'traitors' will be quite a challenge politically and quite laughable practically. No one holds a single opinion. Are we able to mind read now. Anyone with 'different agenda' as decided by you is now a traitor. What manner of dark thinking is this. I'd love to see people walk into a meeting and single out half a dozen community members/leaders as traitors and demand they be 'dealt with severely'. I suspect they would rip you limb from limb for such as insult. This is the land of Kattaboman after all, we were loyal to India long before it was created and we take such insults seriously face to face and often settle it with an Aruvaal. Bring your own. :(

-----------------------------------------------
WRT the public meeting they are a particularly sore point. First they we held in Tirunelveli deliberately to prevent the really poor from expressing themselves. Too my mind there should have been a couple of meetings a year that should should have been ongoing and providing constant updates in all the small towns in the area. In fact there should be such meeting after the plant opens as well. But there is no provision for this. Also all material was in English while most folk only read Tamil. Let me point out that even then about 1,200 people showed up. Yet public comment was closed after 2 hours after about 20 public had commented, mostly constructive questions mind you.

All of these are failures of governance. The AERB/NPCIL is apparently perfect and does not need to reform or go though an independent evaluation before opening the largest reactor it has handled of a type it is unfamiliar with. The same government widely condemned for the Commonwealth games is perfect and can do no wrong in Kudankulam.

In any case the situation in MAPS is shifting as well. Watch out for Kalpakkam in the coming months.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chetak »

Conspiracy?? or are others also asking the same question?? :)


Catholic Church involved in Kudankulam Nuclear Plant agitation – Subramanian Swamy
Posted on October 20, 2011 by IS
I demand an explanation from the Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh as to why his Secretary Mr. Pulok Chatterji, with the help of the Maharashtra Chief Minister Mr. Prithviraj Chavan, has entered into negotiations with the Catholic Church in Mumbai to help resolve the protests taking place against the Kudankulam Nuclear Plant. Does this mean that the Catholic Church is behind the agitation in which case it is highly objectionable and calls for action under IPC Sections 153A & B, 295A and 505(2). It also exposes that the PMO is under the clutches of the Catholic Church probably due to the extra-constitutional authority exercised by the now ailing Ms Sonia Gandhi who appears to regard Mr. Pulok Chatterji with the PMO as her personal civil domestic servant judging by his role when she was hospitalized in New York. During the period of her hospitalization, Mr. Pulok Chatterji was frequently seen arranging for pizza and other snacks for her large Italian entourage numbering about fifty and living in plush apartments in New York close to the hospital.
The Prime Minister, if he is committed to secular[ism], that is, not prejudiced against the majority Hindu community and biased in favour of the Christians because they are patrons of Ms. Sonia Gandhi, should put an end to this condemnable negotiation on the viability of the Kudankulam Plant. The Church has no business to decide whatsoever on whether a new reactor set up after Government approval is to be opposed or supported. Let the Catholic Church restrict itself to religious matters otherwise persons like myself would be free to investigate the practices of the Church such as in appointment of Bishops on direction from the Vatican, and receipt of funds from abroad. – Janata Party Press Release, Oct. 17, 2011
chetak
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chetak »

The french are certainly a nation of shopkeepers without conscience.

Money is their only god.

Good for us.:D
"L'Angleterre est une nation de boutiquiers."
—Napoleon I
This phrase can be translated from French to English as:

"England is a nation of shopkeepers."
—Napoleon I
Theo_Fidel

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Lets keep in mind France does not have much Nuclear fuel of its own.

They will gladly sell us equipment that we then struggle to fuel.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chetak »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Lets keep in mind France does not have much Nuclear fuel of its own.

They will gladly sell us equipment that we then struggle to fuel.
Prompt payment of their inflated bills is the only thing that really excites and motivates them.

They don't really give a rodents behind about anything else, politics, ideology or humanity. They are loathed in Europe as the most cruel of people.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Tanaji »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Lets keep in mind France does not have much Nuclear fuel of its own.

They will gladly sell us equipment that we then struggle to fuel.
The assumption that DAE is populated by idiots that cannot realize the above possibility may be alluring to you but is untrue.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

Support by a section of Nadars for KKNPP in Tirunelveli and Tuticorin- a Tamil newspaper report
Roughly, this group says that the government must ensure a few safety issues such as ensuring no adverse effects on fishing, no radioactive contamination from KKNPP into the sea, those living within 10 Kms radius from KKNPP must be provided with houses capable of withstanding radiation. It also demands 60% employment for people of Tirunelveli, Kanyakumari & Tuticorin districts apart from allocating 10% of electricity produced to these three districts making them free from electricity cuts. It also wants special concessions for people living within the 10 Kms radius. It also demands motorboats to the fishermen.

It also says that generating electricity is very important and nobody is prepared to go back to stone age. Though there could be doubts about the background to the agitation, the safety and security of people living nearby cannot be denied. The government has a responsibility to implement the project by ensuring the safety of the citizens.

65% of the people surrounding KKNPP are Nadars. We opposed this project initially when it was announced. But, we later accepted this as we realized it was essential for the country. It was patriotism that made us accept this. For many years now, Kalpakkam is operating and nearby is Chennai where a crore of people live.

There is danger in everything. The intelligent thing is to implement projects by strengthening safety issues. The government must spread the awareness. We are willing to be part of that process.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

Protests elsewhere, but support in KKNPP Area
Even as opposition to the Koodankulam Nuclear Power Project (KKNPP) spreads to places beyond Idinthakarai—Monday alone witnessed a huge rally in Nagercoil and two protests in Chennai—people of the village adjoining Koodankulam are giving a thumbs-up to the project that has brought visible prosperity to them.

In Chettikulam village, 8 km south of Koodankulam on Kanyakumari-Tiruchendur road, shops are doing brisk business, in sharp contrast to the scene in Idinthakarai or Koodankulam, where all commercial establishments are closed and a posse of police guards the gates of the nuclear plant with riot-control vehicles like Vajra and Varun.

Shops in Chettikulam, opposite Baba Gate of Arun Vijay township— home to the nuclear scientific co­mmunity includin­g Russia­ns, came up after work on KKNPP began, says Siva­chandran, who runs Hotel Kavin, on the highway, which has an airconditioned dining room. His fellow villagers are not in favour of the agitation at Idinthakarai, he says, as the project has brought jobs and business opport­unities, besides high prices for their parched scrublands.

One shop even stocks Russian cig­arettes, and foreigners are seen on the main road riding bicycles, carryin­g babies and shopping busily, though many Indian famili­es in the township have gone to their native places for Diwali.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chaanakya »

^^ From the link Gerard posted above
Even Bigger Challenge: Supreme Court Petition

The biggest challenge yet to the country's nuclear plans is a writ petition filed in India's Supreme Court on Oct. 14 by some of India's most eminent citizens and organizations. The petition calls on the court to order a hold on nuclear construction until safety reviews and cost-benefit analyses are carried out for all proposed or existing facilities.

The petitioners include E.A.S. Sarma, former power secretary; T.S.R. Subramanian, former cabinet secretary; N. Gopalaswami, former chief election commissioner; K.R. Venugopal, former secretary in the prime minister's office, P.M. Bhargava, former member of the National Knowledge Commission and founder fo the Center for Cellular and Molecular Biology; and Admiral Laxminarayan Ramdas, former chief of naval staff.

In its appeal the group said India's nuclear program goes against the "fundamental right to life" guaranteed by the Constitution, which the Supreme Court is bound to protect. Praful Bidwai, one of the petitioners, told InsideClimate News that India has a "poor culture of safety" and cited the 1984 gas disaster in the state of Bhopal, which killed thousands in its aftermath and from related diseases since.

The group also urged the Supreme Court to scrap the country's Civil Liability for Nuclear Damage Act, which passed in 2010 and creates a liability cap for nuclear plant operators for economic damage in the event of an accident. It also leaves nuclear suppliers free of most liability.

The petition said: "The Civil Liability for Nuclear Damage Act, 2010, by capping the financial liability of operators and by making suppliers not liable violates the 'polluter pays' principle and the 'absolute liability' principle which have become recognized as part of the law of the land under Article 21 of the Constitution."

The petitioners want the court to rule that nuclear operators and suppliers would be jointly and absolutely liable for civil damages in the event of an accident, and that their financial liability would be unlimited.

The Supreme Court has in the past upheld the "polluter pays" and "absolute liability" principles.

If it does so this time, the only way the central government can avoid having to adhere to the ruling would be through fresh legislation, which would be a challenging sell. Even the Indo-U.S. nuclear deal was cleared through Parliament narrowly in 2008, with Singh's government almost falling in a confidence vote over the issue.(the famous cash for vote scam)
Looks like names of "betigan agents" are well known and quite familiar.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by ramdas »

Theo_Fidel,

So, agitators plan to scuttle Kalpakkam PFBR & PHWRs as well - in particular, they want to target even facilities that are noncivilian and may be linked to strategic defence. If this is not treason, what is?
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chetak »

ramdas wrote:Theo_Fidel,

So, agitators plan to scuttle Kalpakkam PFBR & PHWRs as well - in particular, they want to target even facilities that are noncivilian and may be linked to strategic defence. If this is not treason, what is?
Is it possible that these jokers are specifically targeting the Fast Breeder program and covering it up by the general protests??

Cannot understand the deep involvement of the church and foreign funded NGOs.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by ramana »

Try to look deeper. And conclude without full facts. Most of them are ex-high govt officials.

One way the liability cap is not enough till full costs of Fukushima type disaster are not yet understood.
Theo_Fidel

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Theo_Fidel »

It is loss of confidence amongst the intelligentsia that is causing these protests in TN. Mood has shifted dramatically after Fukushima. Government has failed to complete full reorganization of Nuclear program. Esp. after recent changes in access and accidents. Dramatic efforts and much much more transparency are now necessary to restore confidence. Else protest will continue.

Government did not consult a single local leader before planning 6 additional plants. SIX :eek: What kind of stupids do they think we are. There is no confidence in government anymore. We must protect ourselves as government will not.

For those still focused on shadows and on identifying traitors and treason, Chanaakya has pointed out the obscene sums of money that were involved in getting the nuclear treaty, liability bill and opening holes for specific countries/companies to enter our Nuclear market. Questions should be asked there as well.

Personally I'm increasingly of the view that this has a lot to do with MMS. He is creating a lot of fires that Sonia Bhen is unable to put out. It would not be hard for GOI to do what the protestors need. It needs to be done for the safety of the country as well. No more trying to do Nuclear on the cheap. Fund it fully and pay for all the phases including disposal/monitoring/testing/research upfront.
V_Raman
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by V_Raman »

i also feel the same way. all this is orchestrated to kill any foreign plants without due process. SIX plants will require enormous land/buffer zone which india simply does not have. we will be forced to go the small plant route with numerous small plants situated in urban areas itself.
vishvak
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by vishvak »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Personally I'm increasingly of the view that this has a lot to do with MMS. He is creating a lot of fires that Sonia Bhen is unable to put out. It would not be hard for GOI to do what the protestors need. It needs to be done for the safety of the country as well. No more trying to do Nuclear on the cheap. Fund it fully and pay for all the phases including disposal/monitoring/testing/research upfront.
It is not MMS but external powers who want to do this on the cheap. Not only that, another external power does not want it at all. Sonia Gandhi can only muddle more, like how a central minister came and said a few random unrelated lines on caste and went scot free, thereby vitiating atmosphere.

What has MMS got to lose if liability i.e. supply side is enforced. It is the sellers i.e. Americans who objected against liability clause for their own cheap nuclear tech sell without risks, and it is the Church who objected against nuclear energy.

Now our scientists are doing Govt.s job for mutual convincing which central Govt. has no idea about at all!
Prabu
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Prabu »

Good that GOI is reading BR and taking wise decisions, at least some times ! :wink:
chetak
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chetak »

Still not convinced about the involvement of the church?? and foreigners??
:lol:

In fact the entire affair has been instigated and sustained by these guys.


Kudankulam: ‘Foreign activists join locals in opposing project’

NPCIL is building two reactors based on Russian technology at KAPP, which will produce 2,000 MW of power. Nuclear fuel was to be loaded in the first reactor by September and the reactor was supposed to produce power by December. However, since July, KAPP has been facing protests from local villagers, who have been demanding that the project be scrapped due to the safety concerns.

Dr Jain said recent evacuation drills carried out by NPCIL and stipulated by the National Disaster Management Authority, had created an element of suspicion in the villagers' minds. Rumours had spread that the drills were not safety drills but a ploy to displace people staying within a 5 km radius of the project. “This sentiment was used by these environmental activists and exploited for their ends,” he added.

Dr Jain also alleged that some of the churches in the area were participating in the agitation.


Currently, nuclear fuel has not been loaded in the first reactor but a Hot Run — an important process before the actual commissioning of the plant — has been carried out. The activists are demanding that the plant be shut down completely until the fears of the locals is addressed.

Dr Jain said the reactor is not like a Maruti factory that can be switched off and on depending on the requirement. “The nuclear plant system once started cannot be shut down. The plant was ready for loading of nuclear fuel in September but due to a blockade by the villagers, it could not be carried out. Due to the road blockade we have not been able to maintain all the systems and it could damage the plant,” he warned.
vishvak
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by vishvak »

chetak wrote:Still not convinced about the involvement of the church?? and foreigners??
:lol:

In fact the entire affair has been instigated and sustained by these guys.


Kudankulam: ‘Foreign activists join locals in opposing project’

Dr Jain said the reactor is not like a Maruti factory that can be switched off and on depending on the requirement. “The nuclear plant system once started cannot be shut down. The plant was ready for loading of nuclear fuel in September but due to a blockade by the villagers, it could not be carried out. Due to the road blockade we have not been able to maintain all the systems and it could damage the plant,” he warned.
It is out in the open.

It is time Govt takes an action on foreign interests and starts the plant. Once the Chairman and Managing Director of the Nuclear Power Corporation of India says all this, it becomes imperative that action is taken quickly, before this becomes a self fulfilling disaster i.e. the protests against nuclear plant damaging the nuclear plant.

Also, it is high time these foreigners are arrested. Why are these foreigners in India and what are they doing with the full knowledge that this blockade can damage the plant as stated above? Don't the protesters know all this?

Also, about safety of the people, hopefully someone in the state is coordinating to organize clarifications on this. This could go a long way eventually and is therefore is a must.
Last edited by vishvak on 29 Oct 2011 13:47, edited 2 times in total.
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