Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 2011

Upendra · Post by **Upendra** » 22 Nov 2011 18:16

ISI continues to support LeT, Jaish: India

As per available intelligence, Pakistan-based terrorist outfits continue to receive support from ISI, says MoS for Home Jitendra Singh.

The government today said Pakistan's spy agency ISI continues to support various terrorist outfits to spread violence in India.

"...As per available intelligence inputs, Pakistan-based terrorist outfits, particularly Lashkar-e-Toiba, Jaish-e-Mohammed, Hijbul Mujahideen etc., continue to receive support from ISI," Minister of State for Home Jitendra Singh informed Lok Sabha in a written reply.

He said government was committed to combating terrorism, extremism and separatism in all its forms and manifestation as no cases, genuine or imaginary, could justify terrorism.

The government, he said, has taken various measures in this regard.

Replying to another question, the minister said as per available information, investigation into terrorism-related cases by state police forces and disclosures of arrested persons revealed names of a few terrorist elements in Bihar having links with LeT.

"On the basis of inputs, four LeT operatives of Bihar were identified and arrested between 2004-2009," he said.

member_20038 · Post by **member_20038** » 22 Nov 2011 18:24

sum wrote:Deepest friend getting a taste of Pakistaniyat:
Chinese engineers escape militant attack in Pak; 5 killed

In a second major attack in as many days, suspected militants in Pakistan's restive southwest Balochistan province today attacked a group of Chinese engineers being escorted by security forces, killing five persons and injuring 11 others.

The Chinese engineers escaped unhurt in the attack in which three security personnel were among those killed, officials were quoted as saying by TV news channels.

The incident occurred in Dera Bugti district, which has sizeable gas reserves. But, there was no official word on the incident. Chinese nationals are involved in several projects in northwest and southwest Pakistan.

In the past, two Chinese engineers were kidnapped by the Taliban. They were later freed by security forces.

Today's attack came a day after 14 security personnel, including an Army major, were killed in clashes between paramilitary troops and militants of the banned Baloch
Balochistan suddenly seems to be heating up!!!

Likely faked incident. All-my-tea seems to be on Cheena blothel's side as Cheena blothels escaped unhurt during the PNS Mehran incident

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 22 Nov 2011 18:40

Quoted in full from Xpress Tribune.

Pakistani Taliban declare ceasefire to support peace talks: Report

Published: November 22, 2011[/url]

The Pakistani Taliban have declared a ceasefire with the government of Pakistan in support of peace talks, the Associated Press (AP) reported on Tuesday.

A senior commander of the militant group, on the condition of anonymity, said that the ceasefire had been in place for the past month.

The Army had earlier denied news reports that stated it was engaged in negotiations with the Taliban. In a statement issued through the ISPR, the military “strongly and categorically” refuted news reports published by foreign news agencies that claimed that the Pakistani government and army were engaging in peace talks with the militant outfit.

“The army is not undertaking any kind of negotiations with TTP or its affiliated militant groups,” the spokeperson said.

“Such reports are concocted, baseless and unfounded,” he added.

A senior TTP militant commander had said on Monday that the banned group was engaging in initial peace talks with the Pakistan government and military.

“Peace talks are continuing with the Pakistani government and army. We have had two rounds of such talks,” one senior Taliban commander told AFP by telephone, claiming to be on a 10-member negotiating committee.

Dialogue, without arms says Rehman Malik

Interior Minister Rehman Malik said dialogue has already been offered to the Tehreek-e-Taliban but talks cannot take place till the militant outfit throws away their arms and give up terrorism.

“There is nothing formal regarding talks with Taliban. The Taliban usually send messages to us and I also sometimes conveyed them a message so that peace could prevail. But it is clear if the Taliban want to shake hands with us they would have to get rid of their arms,” he said.

Speaking to the media today, Malik also added “We are happy they have realized that killing of innocent people is wrong and the only way forward is the path of peace.”

The Minister said he cannot say much on this national issue and added all the stakeholders would sit together to find the amicable solution.
.

Piece returns, wot? The Taliban say that they are in talks with Govt. and the Army. The army says it isn't in talks. Ithink the PA and ISI have more personalities than Imelda Marcos had pairs of shoes. Devious.

And some of the drone strikes last week supposedly hit the TTP?

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 22 Nov 2011 20:43

Pakistan's Ambassador to the US Husain Haqqani resigns

Breaking news in TOIlet

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Nov 2011 20:49

RajanB, Satya_anveshi, Anujan, SSridhar, We need to relook the memogate.

Looks like an incident from the 1740s Mughal court. Zaradari et al offered Amrikan bahdur a civliain coup. In other words the Sultan offered to replace the Amir ul Umra. Only they didn't know the conduit Ijaz was a latent ISI asset. MM did not go whole hog and wanted to shame the TSPA into turning over Haqqani group. It backfired as can be seen in chronolgy in Sept '11. SD stepped in Oct and smoothed ruffled feathers. Ijaz turned over the evidence to ISI to preserve his skin or might have been their munnna all along. (Some one should look to see if he was their hedge fund mgr of the Afghan jihad?) So now the other shoe is dropping and claiming HH at a minimum.

At a minimum a civilian coup was prevented with US inactioin to retain status quo. No rocking the boat allowed by the US. They will write memoirs regretting it.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 22 Nov 2011 22:51

parsuram wrote:To all those still in the process of begetting sons and daughters, I can suggest a tradition from my family, but only if you have more than one son. Take one of your sons to a Gurudwara near you, and have him grow up in the Sikh tradition. This was common among Hindu families in Punjab, and reviving it will go a long way towards healing a rift which can best be healed with ties of blood. Its not as if you will loose a son. He will be a part of your family and live and grow up in your home, just that he will follow certain Sikh teachings and traditions. And he will also follow Hindu traditions in your home. Check it out. May be just add "Singh" as a middle name for inspiration.

Why not enroll the kids in to the nearest RSS shakha instead ? It's going to be less confusing for everyone involved. The times when this custom started were very different from present. Even some non-dhimmis might think twice before associating with RSS, but IMHO it's much better than what you suggested. Grooming a son as a Sikh instead of a normal Hindu isn't going to make him better.
I used to join some activities organised by RSS workers near my playground when I was 12-13 years old. It consisted of some Sanskrit prayers, drills and social work. Almost the same as what they do in Gurudwaras. But I think that stress on nationalistic values is more in RSS. Also there is no obligation to follow increasingly rigid rules on pagadi, kada, kesh etc.
I mean no offence to any Sikh, but as SBajwa ji said, even devout Sikhs these days aren't what they were during Guru Gobind Singh ji days. There are some other reasons too, but that'll be off topic for this thread

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 22 Nov 2011 22:56

Its time for GoI to immediately contact European Union and revoke the support for 'aid for trade' to pakistan...DO IT NOW

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 22 Nov 2011 23:04

I really cannot understand this fuss about memogate, and there isn't going to be much about it. This is a small fry event really. ISI/PA has been loggerheads with Zardari since he came into power. The big event shakers this year are really Raymond Davis affair, Bin Laden, SSS's murder (that was a big deal) and Mullen's statement and actually a lot more. Intrigue calculations within this Paki set up don't matter too much. They have existed since this setup came into existence. A 100 BR posts point out to PA/ISI/Gilani vs Zardari/HH/US. The so called coup in Pakistan though Kiyani is braving for it, is under a tight leash for the time being. Any coup in Pakistan now will be an event based affair not an intrigue based one. The balance of power within the 17th century equivalent intrigue setup is correct for the time being. Pakistan is under a razor sharp eye now. Any idiot act by Kiyani he knows there's a good chance it's not getting approval. He is the typical college grad looking at good scores, doing what is expected. Not a game changer kind of guy one bit. No new ideas, just solid consolidation of what is there. Kiyani might exceed himself, but it's highly unlikely given his upbringing and scalable skillset up the PA..that got him to where he is. HH will be sacrificed and that is about it.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Nov 2011 23:37

Harbans its coup that went wrong. It has all the sahdes of Badmash dismissing Mushy in 1999. That one went worng and he got exiled to KSA. All those events you mention led to a missed civilian coup. We are now seeing the results of that failure. HH is going going gone. Next will be Duspercenti.

Duspercenti came ot power as a replacement for BB who was "accidented" during Mushy as she was overtly US linked. Duspercenti was brought in as her stand in. Ie he represtst the civlian facade of US support to TSP.

So Dupercenti thought that the US would welcome a chance to bring back civilian control, which they professed all these years, and made the offer. The US stared at the abyess and backed off. Now we are seeing their own guys getting "retired hurt" by the TSPA and its agencies.

And you say what is the fuss? If old timers like you dont see things then what to say of new comers?

Finally importance of memogate sinking in

Bloomberg:

Pak spy agencies picking the wrong fight

In sum, memogate reflects on US more than anyone else.

Ijaz is a turd and his actions reinforce the picture. So no surprise there. TSPA/ISI will do as earlier modelled.

Sudip · Post by **Sudip** » 22 Nov 2011 23:58

The American Behind The 2008 Attack On Mumbai

Nice article worth reading

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 23 Nov 2011 00:02

And you say what is the fuss? If old timers like you dont see things then what to say of new comers?

Ramana Ji, with all due respect, i do indeed understand the need to introspect and analyze on this, but frankly coup or no coup, we all know who calls the shots. The PA/ISI combo. Pakistan itself is all a big fuss all the time. And this is just one episode. All i wanted to say this is PAki spy agencies have been picking the wrong fight all along. What really is new to this? Nothing. Zilch. I find it hard to believe that veteran BRF'ites think there will be any real change unless constitutionally the Civilian combo has the power to sack the ISI/PA Chiefs. It's a point i raised post 26-11 as one of India's key demands on this forum itself. Bringing in the PA under Civilian control explicitly in the Paki constitution. Without that happening, frankly these intrigues are nothing new. They are getting stale. And that is exactly what i implied to Altair Ji a month and a half back almost when he predicted there would be a coup in week or 2's time. Even with Zardari and Civilian Govts they still bomb Mumbai and US/ Indian Embassies at will. So what's the big change envisaged with Memogate really? Come to think about it. Nothing but HH's head. It will end up that way. That's all.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 23 Nov 2011 00:03

"Memogate" claims its first victim

Several names for replacements for Haqqani have been making the rounds since he offered to resign last week, in light of the "memogate" disclosures. These include current Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir, former ambassador to the United States Maleeha Lodhi, the current Pakistani representative to the United Nations Hussain Haroon, and former Pakistani Army chief Gen. Jehangir Karamat.
Lodhi, when asked about whether she would want to be ambassador, said at an event at the U.S. Institute of Peace (USIP) last week that she had picked up the American expression, "three strikes and you're out." Lodhi has twice served as Pakistan's Ambassador to Washington under Benazir Bhutto and General Musharraf's governments respectively.

Jihadi lodhi must be having orgasms over the opportunity that just opened up.

Bashir, who at 59 years old is due to the reach the age of retirement soon, could be asked to resign from the Foreign Office and become a political appointee to the United States. Bashir's brother is Admiral Noman Bashir, the former Chief of Naval Staff, and he is viewed as being close to the military and establishment. He was also part of the Pakistani delegation that met Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in New York in September.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 Nov 2011 00:07

ramana wrote: Bloomberg:

Pak spy agencies picking the wrong fight

In sum, memogate reflects on US more than anyone else.

From this...

On other occasions, the ISI executes its mission with slightly more politesse. Such is the case in a controversy now raging around the alleged activities of the Pakistani ambassador to the U.S., Husain Haqqani. He stands accused of something akin to treason for allegedly trying to enlist American help to undermine the Pakistani military’s hold on the country’s elected government.

Is TSPA setting the precedence to thwart any future Abortabad like leaks?

Where is American revenge for the Navy Seals death in Afghanistan and Embassy bombings?

Can the previous attack on CIA station (killing 7+ CIA operatives) a message to not come close to Abortabad resident?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Nov 2011 00:13

Memogate needs a US reponse. Lets see what it is.

Read the following with Memogate in mind:

http://www.kanchangupta.blogspot.com/

....
Unmindful of the fact that on November 26 India will observe the third anniversary of that horrendous blood-letting and disdainful of grieving parents, widows and orphans who are yet to reconcile themselves to their terrible loss, Singh has chosen this moment to declare Pakistan’s Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani a “man of peace” who is “willing to work with us” and indicated his desire to visit the country that continues to torment India.

There is more. Without going into details, he said, “I did discuss with Pakistan Prime Minister Gilani whether Pakistan’s armed forces were on board. The feeling I got was that after a long time, Pakistan’s armed forces are on board.” In other words, both Islamabad and Rawalpindi are now keen to talk peace with New Delhi.

In April this year, The Times (London) carried an interesting story which said Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had opened “secret talks” with the Pakistani Army chief 10 months ago “to build on the cricket-inspired diplomatic thaw” between the two countries. The newspaper claimed Singh had “appointed an unofficial envoy to make contact with General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Pakistan's chief of the army staff who exercises de facto control over foreign policy.” The PMO had swiftly denied the report.

The Prime Minister’s sudden mention of the Pakistani Army being “on board” brings that report to mind. It is unimaginable that Gilani would have talked Kayani, who misses no opportunity to make it abundantly clear that India remains Enemy Number One of the Pakistani Army and treats his Prime Minister with unhidden contempt, into getting ‘on board’ the peace train.
.....
Third, days before Gilani was anointed a “man of peace”, he ordered that Jamaat-ud-Dawa’h, as the LeT has refashioned itself to beat sanctions, be removed from Pakistan’s list of banned organisations. That decision was in defiance of UN Security Council resolutions, especially Resolution 1822, which are binding on all member-states. It also rudely mocks at India’s assertion that the LeT / JuD is responsible for the continued loss of Indian lives.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 Nov 2011 00:44

Was MMS dreaming to give the best gift to Mumbai on 11/26? And he drank Gila-nahi cool-aid to achieve that?

I thought gila-nahi is the pinky of kiya-nahi... Was MMS playing the big man's game all of a sudden?

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 23 Nov 2011 02:24

jamwal wrote:Why not enroll the kids in to the nearest RSS shakha instead ? It's going to be less confusing for everyone involved. The times when this custom started were very different from present. Even some non-dhimmis might think twice before associating with RSS, but IMHO it's much better than what you suggested. Grooming a son as a Sikh instead of a normal Hindu isn't going to make him better.

Well, unlike RSS, none of the Sikh Gurus or political leaders ever made public claims of being "atheist". That alone gives me more confidence in Sikh kshaatra than RSS shaakha. I mean no offence at all to any RSS members, its an individual preference. But even RSS likes to use the personalities of Sikh Gurus by putting up their pictures here and there. If they were truer to the other threads that go into the fabric of Sikh dharma, then it would have been better.

Kesh, kadaa, etc are externals that may be modified in a modern branch that is an offshoot brotherhood (samparday) of Sikhism. But you can't put the divine core back into a movement like the RSS that sprung from purely communal-nationalistic impulse. And in that respect (of its seed) it cannot compare with Sikhism. Forget the 10 Gurus - where is a Bhai Kanhaiya in RSS history? That is kshaatra dharma, IMHO.

archan · Post by **archan** » 23 Nov 2011 03:20

jamwal, Carl, parsuram, please move your posts to appropriate thread. This is the TSP thread remember?

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 23 Nov 2011 03:44

Veerendran wrote:
sum wrote:Deepest friend getting a taste of Pakistaniyat:
Chinese engineers escape militant attack in Pak; 5 killed

In a second major attack in as many days, suspected militants in Pakistan's restive southwest Balochistan province today attacked a group of Chinese engineers being escorted by security forces, killing five persons and injuring 11 others.

The Chinese engineers escaped unhurt in the attack in which three security personnel were among those killed, officials were quoted as saying by TV news channels.

The incident occurred in Dera Bugti district, which has sizeable gas reserves. But, there was no official word on the incident. Chinese nationals are involved in several projects in northwest and southwest Pakistan.

In the past, two Chinese engineers were kidnapped by the Taliban. They were later freed by security forces.

Today's attack came a day after 14 security personnel, including an Army major, were killed in clashes between paramilitary troops and militants of the banned Baloch

Balochistan suddenly seems to be heating up!!!
Likely faked incident. All-my-tea seems to be on Cheena blothel's side as Cheena blothels escaped unhurt during the PNS Mehran incident

Agreed, faked.

Balouch national's need to step up and kill more chinese to hurt pakjabi interests, only 3 have been killed in past decade.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 23 Nov 2011 07:31

PTI backed by army:

PTI= Pakistan Tehriki Insaf (Imran Khan's out fit and not Indian news agency)

A leading British newspaper claimed on Sunday that Imran recently met US Ambassador Cameron Munter in the presence of ISI chief Lt Gen Shuja Pasha – a report strongly denied by the military, as well as the PTI. The report went on to talk about “the perils of upsetting the army,” while referring to the memogate scandal and Pakistani ambassador to the US Husain Haqqani’s involvement.

Mentioning the PPP’s unpopularity with the military, the newspaper said that “reports that several generals had snubbed a state banquet before tense meetings with Zardari added to speculation that the PPP has fallen from favour with the military”.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 23 Nov 2011 07:56

‘Pakistan Army chief Kayani refused to confiscate Lakhvi’s phone in jail’

Recall recent statements.

Is this a good time to invite Kayani?

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 23 Nov 2011 09:09

From what I gather, It appears there is a Chinese who is still missing or unaccounted for. Did any mainstream news papers in paikhanistan cover this?

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 23 Nov 2011 09:29

sum wrote:
Today's attack came a day after 14 security personnel, including an Army major, were killed in clashes between paramilitary troops and militants of the banned Baloch

Balochistan suddenly seems to be heating up!!!

That is because there is a suden influx of phoren audweisers in Dera Bugti. Hillary's Plan B is working.
People are referring as "Balochi Intifada"

India MUST support this Intifada movement with everything we got, short of supplying nuclear weapons

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Nov 2011 13:26

Finally some different perspective after all the MKB/BK India-Pak bhai bhai articles all over the place:
Why Pakistan's peace overtures are a diversionary tactic

To the chorus of the usual suspect television news brigade in New Delhi, Pakistan seems to have launched a 'Peace Offensive' of sorts vis a vis India. After a delay of 15 years it now wants to reciprocate by granting the Most Favoured Nation status to India for trade. For the uninitiated, MFN is an obligation under the World Trade Organisation regime.

The fact is that India did not make it an issue all these years in order not give another excuse to the 'Hate India' brigade in Pakistan. But that still leaves open the question as to why Pakistan has begun to sing the peace tune now! And if one is to believe the Pakistan prime minister, then even the Pakistan Army (a self-confessed India-centric entity) is onboard. There are already calls to liberalise the visa regime, the 'candle brigade's' panacea for all problems.

The knee-jerk Indian reaction is a cause for worry. Recent disclosure in media shows that in the late 1970s, the Ministry of External Affairs had actually assessed that General Zia Ul Haq was a 'moderate' and was unlikely to overthrow Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and definitely not hang him, as he eventually did.

Under Jagat Mehta as foreign secretary, the Indian establishment was spectacularly wrong in its assessment of Pakistan. Failure to prevent Pakistan's slide into fundamentalism and acquisition of nuclear weapons in the 1980s (though it tested in 1998) marks the biggest failure of Indian diplomacy in the 20th century. It is necessary to be cautious and understand the logic behind the sudden Pakistani volte face.

The occurrence is an as unusual as a leopard changing its spots, a tiger turning vegetarian or a dog's tail straightening! But despite an extensive search on the internet, no such incidents have been reported from anywhere else! Let the logic be explained. No sane Indian (barring lunatics on the far right) would question that peace with a nuclear-armed Pakistan is desirable. Yet, realism dictates that if wishes were horses then Pakistan would ride to peace! What is the reality of Pakistan today?

A brainwashed population that believes India was part of Pakistan for thousands of years, Mohd Bin Kasim was the first Pakistani, most Pakistanis are migrants from Arabia, Turkey, Iran and Central Asia and India exists only for the sole aim of destruction of Pakistan and Islam.

Since December 1988 (Benazir Bhutto-Rajiv Gandhi's Islamabad declaration) and countless reports and studies (including by this author) the 'hate India/Hindus' poison continues to be injected in Pakistani school children (not just madarassas but ALL schools).

Pakistani population is growing at one of the highest rate in world with per woman fertility at 5.4 children. With economy growing at less than 2/3 percent, there is increasing poverty and destitution. But the focus of Pakistani state is on 'jihad' to wrest Kashmir from India and obtain strategic depth in Afghanistan.

Pakistan continues to be ruled by feudal elite and the troika of landlords-mullah and the army. Liberal elements are on the fringes and have no influence either with the masses or the armed forces.

Then what explains the current moves to begin trade relations and toned down rhetoric? A clue to this was found in the numerous opinion columns of the Pakistani news media. Not a single day passes without some or the other foreign or security expert writing on how to mend the United States-Pakistan relations. It appears that Pakistani establishment, including the armed forces, are running scared due to change in American policy towards Pakistan.

This needs some explaining. For too long Pakistan has created a myth of Indian 'Goliath' based on overall size of the armed forces. This is untrue as a large proportion of Indian forces are tied on the China border. As a matter of fact, India has never had more than 1 is to 1.5 numerical advantage over Pakistan. But this has been consistently neutralised by the advanced American weaponry supplied to Pakistan, first as part of anti-Soviet alliance, then due to her role in Afghan war and since 2001 as a price for the 'war on terrorism'.

The following examples will show the effect of American military aid,

* Pakistan had 155 mm guns way back in 1965, India acquired these in 1987 (the Bofors guns).
* Pakistan had fire-finder radars since 1980s, India got its first effective fire-finder radar in 2003.
* Pakistan has helicopter gunships, TOW anti tanks missiles, stinger anti-aircraft missiles while India does not have an equivalent other than obsolete Soviet arms.

The Pakistani military is well aware of the plight of the Iranian armed forces after the break with US. While there is brave talk of turning to China, every Pakistani general knows that the Chinese arms are no match to the sophisticated American arsenal. It is this fear of losing out to India for the first time in last 60 years that has prompted Pakistani Army to sing the peace tune.

It hopes to thereby lull the Indian leadership always reluctant to modernise armed forces, to go slow. The loss of a military edge by Pakistan will also force it to shut its jihad project in Kashmir. Peace overtures is its tactic to postpone the inevitable.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 23 Nov 2011 13:52

Excellent article...

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Nov 2011 13:59

^^ Sherry Rehman new Amby to US: rediff!!!!

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 23 Nov 2011 14:00

But will our MEA, Elite again continue the mistakes whoch they have done in the past?? thats the question

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 23 Nov 2011 14:09

Little birdie tells me that estabilishment is quite open about support to Imran Khan. The words used were "what other choice do we have"

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 23 Nov 2011 14:26

They have no choice because the ****** never bothered creating one.

partha · Post by **partha** » 23 Nov 2011 14:57

Anujan wrote:Little birdie tells me that estabilishment is quite open about support to Imran Khan. The words used were "what other choice do we have"

And considering the establishment's power to ~~affect~~ manipulate the election results, Imran Khan might well become the next PM!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 23 Nov 2011 15:10

Altair wrote:India MUST support this Intifada movement with everything we got, short of supplying nuclear weapons

Just provide political, moral and diplomatic support

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Nov 2011 15:15

Anujan wrote:Little birdie tells me that estabilishment is quite open about support to Imran Khan. The words used were "what other choice do we have"

The army have (as per the accounts of anyone who writes first hand about Pakistan)always believed in their own superiority over the civilians and have systematically degraded, exiled or killed all civilian opposition. After 1971 there have been only 4 civian heads of government:
1. Papa Bhutto - hanged by Zia ul Fuq
2. Nawaz Sharif: exiled by Musharraf
3. Bebe Bhutto - killed by Musharraf
4. Zardari -

No one else in Pakistan has political clout, but Imran Khan has some charisma and is a known face. He has no experience in governance and would be a good puppet for the army.

wig · Post by **wig** » 23 Nov 2011 15:25

ms rehman, sherry seems set to be new ambassador to usa

partha · Post by **partha** » 23 Nov 2011 15:28

wig wrote:ms rehman, sherry seems set to be new ambassador to usa

tera kya hoga haqqani?

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 23 Nov 2011 15:31

If sherry Bibi can become the Amb to USA, then Hussain haqqani can become the Amb to India? The establishment would really be "Bitch whipped"

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 23 Nov 2011 15:32

partha wrote:
Anujan wrote:Little birdie tells me that estabilishment is quite open about support to Imran Khan. The words used were "what other choice do we have"
And considering the establishment's power to ~~affect~~ manipulate the election results, Imran Khan might well become the next PM!

I do believe that Imran Khan is the next PM. The latest gimmick of 'peace talks' between the TTP and GoP is a ploy by the PA, perhaps. Nobody would be more delighted with this development than Imran Khan. The PA has forced the GoP to 'talk' to the Taliban.

Anyway, PA would have to do some large scale manipulation, something like what Musharraf did in his referrendum if it has to help Imran Khan in the elections. PTI will not be able to make much dent in the traditional strongholds of PPP & PML in the Sind and the Punjab. Balochistan and KP do not determine who would rule from Islamabad. In the present circumstances, it is going to be tough for the PA to do this manipulation. They will have to employ innovative techniques, other than stuffing the ballot box, to get Imran Khan installed in the throne. The PA has started that process in right earnest much ahead of time. One plan of the PA might be to completely tarnish the image of Nawaz & Zardari. Another might be to cause a revolt within the party and split it or even cause elected representatives to switch loyalties to PTI. A third could be to blackmail unwilling MNAs or offer inducements. The ISI is capable of doing all these things or various combinations of them.

Of course, the elections are two years away, but, the next few months would be interesting to watch and see what techniques are employed. The PA is very angry and therefore may even force instability in the very near future and try to install Imran Khan through a sleight of hand.

partha · Post by **partha** » 23 Nov 2011 15:45

menon s wrote:If sherry Bibi can become the Amb to USA, then Hussain haqqani can become the Amb to India? The establishment would really be "Bitch whipped"

Why do you think the army will trust Haqqani as amb of India!! Haqqani is toast now. Most likely to be tried for treason. Only thing that might save him is Uncle. I am sure the clever Haqqani has met the required US officials before leaving for "motherland".

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 Nov 2011 15:54

haqqani would never have gone back to pakistan for debriefing unless he had a pass from unkil saying "please do not shoot the carrier of this card"
he will be taking asylum in the US, and probably working out how to be part of a new dispensation in the post military pakistan government... hints have already been dropped by him

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 23 Nov 2011 15:57

sum wrote:<SNIP> The Pakistani military is well aware of the plight of the Iranian armed forces after the break with US. While there is brave talk of turning to China, every Pakistani general knows that the Chinese arms are no match to the sophisticated American arsenal. It is this fear of losing out to India for the first time in last 60 years that has prompted Pakistani Army to sing the peace tune.

It hopes to thereby lull the Indian leadership always reluctant to modernise armed forces, to go slow. The loss of a military edge by Pakistan will also force it to shut its jihad project in Kashmir. Peace overtures is its tactic to postpone the inevitable.

[/quote]

At the expense of blowing my own trumpet, this is what I wrote in BK dhaaga -

So, by asking for this less “threatening” posture from IA, what PA does is that it negates the economic superiority of India. Economic superiority which will manifest itself in form of CSD – and assets required to sustain CSD. It wants to pull India down to its level and define the playing field which after a long time is getting more and more favorable to India. Only Pivot Corps from both sides in any conflict w/o follow on forces in terms of strike reserves will actually look like “communal riots” with tanks. Both in terms of time and space, PA will manage us and we will have the same stalemate we used to have earlier. While one leg of CSD calls for quicker mobilization time, it also means that we can create asymmetry in terms force concentration when we go on assault. By agreeing to force restructuring under this point, we give away this option as well – simply because the force structures to begin with on PA side will match ours.

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Nov 2011 16:27

Sajid Mir remains a mystery even 3 years after 26/11

It has been almost three years since the horrific 26/11 attacks shook Mumbai and the country. Although the entire plot has become more or less clear today, there still remain some mysteries surrounding this case. The most important of them all is a man called Sajid Mir, reports Vicky Nanjappa.

Although several theories regarding Sajid Mir have come up in the past, there is not a single agency, barring Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence, which can tell definitively as to who exactly this man is. The National Investigating Agency is yet to file its chargesheet in this case, and if one looks at the case as a whole, Sajid Mir is a very important person in this entire plot.

There are contrasting reports regarding Mir. Some officials say that he is still in Pakistan under the shelter of the ISI while others say that he could have been picked up by the American Central Intelligence Agency already.

According to Indian agencies, the case of Pakistani-American Lashkar-e-Tayiba operative David Headley will never come out in the open fully since he was an agent of the US who turned rogue.

Mir's luck with the police has been exceptionally good. He was convicted in France, but there was no action taken against him. Prior to this he was even arrested in Dubai, but had mysteriously managed to get away.

The Indian agencies point out that this was done at the behest of the ISI. India further points out that losing Mir will be a big loss for the ISI since he is considered to be a global terrorist capable of staging operations anywhere in the world.

Mir was part of the ISI and then roped into the Lashkar to carry out a global operation. He has been doing so since the past eight years now and his talents will continue to be used in global operations.

He not only specialises in arranging for operatives such as Willie Briggite and David Headley, but has managed to travel the globe arranging for operatives with much ease.

Basic takeaway ( for me) from this article is that our intel capacity in Pak is not in the pink of health and we are groping in the dark to find out anything ( let alone take action inside Pak) about anyone within Pak.

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 23 Nov 2011 16:32

sum wrote:Finally some different perspective after all the MKB/BK India-Pak bhai bhai articles all over the place:
Why Pakistan's peace overtures are a diversionary tactic

An excellent article by the Col. Athale. It is very consistent the arguments he made during a discussion with him six months ago and the situation has panned out along the broad strokes he painted. He argued that it was not the upper class and elite who are the problem but the radicalized middle and lower class which has been fed and brought up with a steady diet of anti-India anti-Hindu propaganda that will prevent any reconciliation between India-Pak. He believed that post OBL raid the situation in Pak will rapidly deteriorate and the civilian govt will find its credibility sinking sooner than later. In such an atmosphere, political parties and military will play nice with us to rally behind them once the American aid starts to peter out. We should not be falling for this feint which will come back to bite us later on as he said. Of course letting Pak collapse is also not a very bright scenario given their nukes and the blackmail that they are capable of, so we are caught between the devil and the deep sea. He admitted that he had no clue about how we can manage this collapse scenario without getting affected significantly.