Indian Army : News and Discussion

[chackojoseph]

Well, you seem to have suspended the reasoning part here.

What connection has the profit of BEML got to do with bribe offered to VKS? Only thing those numbers prove is that ex-BEML price of TATRA was INR 85L and it was making 3% profit on each vehicle. The other report about Kolar field talks about 4x4 TATRA vehicle..not exactly the type ordered in large number by IA.

Now, what needs to be seen is the price of TATRA ex-factory in Europe.

Isn't BEML prices very much focus in VKS case, where it is being said that it is too high? As people keep asking find out this and find out that, if you consider your self as a good journalist blah blah blah. Go to the particular post and I have tried to tell nelson look, there are places where you can get info without being journalist (he had mentioned that in one of previous post.). For example, I wanted to know if there was a CAG opinion about it and then searched CAG and found what they had on the issue. Then, I posted some links, where they had it mentioned. Then, IMO there was an impression given that price are being arbitrarily being fixed. One CAG document even had a process of price arrival due to exchange rate fluctuation.

Since you have arrived at that 85 L price and subsequent analysis, hasn't the data been used?


But, I don't want to get into that, as you yourself pointed out that, I have suspended the reasoning and you are trying to pull me in an unwanted debate. All the numbers and my personal views on the estimated have already been given there.

I must say that your search capabilities are questionable. A TATRA sells in Europe for approx 50 lakhs (at least now google for that). Also, kindly see what you get a 4x 4 all wheel drive for 25 -30 lakhs. Your expectation from me to reply to that analysis you posted is laughable. I even don't know which Kolar trucks you are talking about. You may not have read the document and that 3% profit analysis is also

[chackojoseph]

CBI not convinced with details given by Gen VK Singh

No case has been registered yet on the Army Chief's allegations.

No. Case is registered. Please do check your sources. Don't pedal stale stories as you have been doing thus far.

Infact Tatra truck deal: Antony faces jail for neglect of duty?

You check, you have already displayed an habit of not reading even if displayed in front of you. Click the link. it is very much there.

[peter]

CBI not convinced with details given by Gen VK Singh

No case has been registered yet on the Army Chief's allegations.

No. Case is registered. Please do check your sources. Don't pedal stale stories as you have been doing thus far.

Infact Tatra truck deal: Antony faces jail for neglect of duty?

You check, you have already displayed an habit of not reading even if displayed in front of you. Click the link. it is very much there.

What part of this you don't understand:

The belated registration on Friday of a CBI case related to Tatra indicates Antony violated a legal duty when the bribery allegations had first been brought to his notice in writing by his party colleague Ghulam Nabi Azad in 2009 and then verbally by Army chief Gen V K Singh in 2010.

His prolonged failure to take action on the issue till it came out in the open flies in the face of the duty cast on "every person" by Section 39 of Criminal Procedure Code (CrPC).

[Ashutosh Malik]

Hari

would not suggest giving Unnithan anymore hits

Indeed. He has reached the level of his incompetence.

Best regards.

[Surya]

India today is all out

another hit man has been organsised to throw the caste angle. All with unnamed sources and anonymous.

must be a slow time at IT - no sex surveys and no bollywood crap to peddle

so lot of free time to rent people for hit jobs

[chackojoseph]

CBI not convinced with details given by Gen VK Singh

No case has been registered yet on the Army Chief's allegations.

No. Case is registered. Please do check your sources. Don't pedal stale stories as you have been doing thus far.

Infact Tatra truck deal: Antony faces jail for neglect of duty?[/quote]

You check, you have already displayed an habit of not reading even if displayed in front of you. Click the link. it is very much there.

What part of this you don't understand:

The belated registration on Friday of a CBI case related to Tatra indicates Antony violated a legal duty when the bribery allegations had first been brought to his notice in writing by his party colleague Ghulam Nabi Azad in 2009 and then verbally by Army chief Gen V K Singh in 2010.

His prolonged failure to take action on the issue till it came out in the open flies in the face of the duty cast on "every person" by Section 39 of Criminal Procedure Code (CrPC).

[/quote]

Is that in the link I gave you?

I don't know if you can even understand this. But for the benefit of other who can. The 14 crore bribe case has not been registered by CBI.

What was registered by CBI on 3oth of the month states

The Central Bureau of Investigation has registered a case U/s 120 B r/w 420 IPC and sections 13(2) r/w 13(1)(d) of PC Act, 1988 against one of the owners & other unknown persons of a UK based company; unknown officials of a Defence PSU & Ministry of Defence (Government of India) and Indian Army.



It was alleged that unknown officials of a Govt Defence PSU entered into criminal conspiracy with one of the owners of a UK based company having a name similar to a Czech company, which was manufacturer of Military trucks . The agreement signed earlier with a Foreign Trade Corporation of Czechoslovakia for Military vehicles was fraudulently assigned to the said UK based company by showing it as the original OEM/ fully owned subsidiary of Czech company. This was against the provisions of Defence Procurement procedure for supplying the vehicles to Indian Army on the basis of the orders placed by Ministry of Defence, New Delhi.



It is further alleged that in this manner, vehicles worth thousands of Crores have been supplied to Indian Army. In continuation of the aforesaid conspiracy to cause undue benefit to the said UK based company, the unknown officials of the Defence PSU allowed change of currency from US Dollor to Euro and further by not levying the Liquidated damages, thereby causing further loss of approximately Rs. 13.27 crores.

Peter, every post you make, shows how desperate you have become to to show an honest man in bad light. Next time, if I don't post a reply to your post is because, you are wasting my time, without reading properly and appears you have a vested interest. Now even Army chief has said that Defence Minister has taken care of it "institutionally" you appear doubting even the Army chief. it shows that your earlier concern for Army chief was only crocodile tears.

[peter]

Just for those of you who are interested, CBI filed a case on March 30th.

http://www.cbi.nic.in/pressreleases/pr_2012-03-30-1.php

Press Release
New Delhi , 30.03.2012

The Central Bureau of Investigation has registered a case U/s 120 B r/w 420 IPC and sections 13(2) r/w 13(1)(d) of PC Act, 1988 against one of the owners & other unknown persons of a UK based company; unknown officials of a Defence PSU & Ministry of Defence (Government of India) and Indian Army.

And let me also add that unlike what is being pedalled, this case has been filed only because of General VKS's interview to the Hindu Newspaper.

[chackojoseph]

Just for those of you who are interested, CBI filed a case on March 30th.

http://www.cbi.nic.in/pressreleases/pr_2012-03-30-1.php

Press Release
New Delhi , 30.03.2012

The Central Bureau of Investigation has registered a case U/s 120 B r/w 420 IPC and sections 13(2) r/w 13(1)(d) of PC Act, 1988 against one of the owners & other unknown persons of a UK based company; unknown officials of a Defence PSU & Ministry of Defence (Government of India) and Indian Army.

And let me also add that unlike what is being pedalled, this case has been filed only because of General VKS's interview to the Hindu Newspaper.

As usual not reading my earlier post which says the same thing. You have again selectively quoted the portion of entire CBI release (which I have already posted to your last reply) and then you have twisted it for spreading wrong information.

This case can be even for the 2009 submission where MoD press release said that Vigilance has been appointed in February and Vigilance and CBI have exchanged noted.

You are desperate to show a good honest man down as you have a vested interest. Earlier you displayed that you care of Army Chief and now you displayed that you don't believe him. You are showing double face.

[Ashutosh Malik]

India today is all out

another hit man has been organsised to throw the caste angle. All with unnamed sources and anonymous.

must be a slow time at IT - no sex surveys and no bollywood crap to peddle

so lot of free time to rent people for hit jobs

Very true. I grew up reading this magazine starting early 80s. Used to respect it, relatively i.e., even till 90s. What a fall! Pathetic. Talks a lot about the men/ women who run it.

Best.

[chetak]

India today is all out

another hit man has been organsised to throw the caste angle. All with unnamed sources and anonymous.

must be a slow time at IT - no sex surveys and no bollywood crap to peddle

so lot of free time to rent people for hit jobs

Very true. I grew up reading this magazine starting early 80s. Used to respect it, relatively i.e., even till 90s. What a fall! Pathetic. Talks a lot about the men/ women who run it.

Best.

It's just a hit job and this is just one of a series. what gives? a rajya sabha seat or a padmashri in true burqa and turdesai style?

[peter]

Just for those of you who are interested, CBI filed a case on March 30th.

http://www.cbi.nic.in/pressreleases/pr_2012-03-30-1.php

Press Release
New Delhi , 30.03.2012

The Central Bureau of Investigation has registered a case U/s 120 B r/w 420 IPC and sections 13(2) r/w 13(1)(d) of PC Act, 1988 against one of the owners & other unknown persons of a UK based company; unknown officials of a Defence PSU & Ministry of Defence (Government of India) and Indian Army.

And let me also add that unlike what is being pedalled, this case has been filed only because of General VKS's interview to the Hindu Newspaper.

This case can be even for the 2009 submission where MoD press release said that Vigilance has been appointed in February and Vigilance and CBI have exchanged noted.

Please provide some "proof" for your new conjecture/POV that it is for 2009 submission and not connected to VK Singh's interview to Hindu at all.

And did you read that it is Manoj Mitta who is saying that for Tatra truck deal: Antony faces jail for neglect of duty?

[chackojoseph]

Please provide some "proof" for your new conjecture/POV that it is for 2009 submission and not connected to VK Singh's interview to Hindu at all.

And did you read that it is Manoj Mitta who is saying that for Tatra truck deal: Antony faces jail for neglect of duty?

Thank you reading at least 2 lines and quoting them. The "new" conjecture/POV" you are inventing, is discoverable in my posts yesterday. So, again you have shown that you do not read.

Manoj Mitta is giving an analysis. What I have posted from ibnlive is actually the situation on the ground.

[peter]

Please provide some "proof" for your new conjecture/POV that it is for 2009 submission and not connected to VK Singh's interview to Hindu at all.

And did you read that it is Manoj Mitta who is saying that for Tatra truck deal: Antony faces jail for neglect of duty?

Thank you reading at least 2 lines and quoting them. The "new" conjecture/POV" you are inventing, is discoverable in my posts yesterday. So, again you have shown that you do not read.

Manoj Mitta is giving an analysis. What I have posted from ibnlive is actually the situation on the ground.

So you are saying no proof for you conjecture/POV yet again? Don't you get tired of inventing ficticious strawman all the time?

And are you also saying you are a better journalist than Manoj Mitta because you know the situation on the ground and he doesnt?

[chackojoseph]

So you are saying no proof for you conjecture/POV yet again? Don't you get tired of inventing ficticious strawman all the time?

And are you also saying you are a better journalist than Manoj Mitta because you know the situation on the ground and he doesnt?

How did I say that there is no proof of what I said? I said its already posted yesterday. Search for it.

How come my journalism credentials come in between when we are talking about Manoj Mitta's time of India analysis and ibnlives news? I don't even hold a single share in both.

[peter]

So you are saying no proof for you conjecture/POV yet again? Don't you get tired of inventing ficticious strawman all the time?

And are you also saying you are a better journalist than Manoj Mitta because you know the situation on the ground and he doesnt?

How did I say that there is no proof of what I said? I said its already posted yesterday. Search for it.

Then it should be easy for you to post a link for your "proof". Else it is an unfounded conjecture like many other things you have said here.

How come my journalism credentials come in between when we are talking about Manoj Mitta's time of India analysis and ibnlives news? I don't even hold a single share in both.

Well you are saying your POV based on ibnlive is "closer to the ground" and is hence superior to Manoj's analysis, in which Manoj says Antony "the honest" might be headed to jail for abetting corruption because he sat on complaints for 2 years initially by Azad in 2009 and later by General VKS in 2010.

What is hard to understand here?

[member_23061]

Wow, why all this angst against Chacko-ji and his personal honor? Lets chill down guys.

I am concerned that this issue, like all others will be buried when the Chief retires. Graft has existed before, the scale however is perplexing now with staggering amounts being bandied about. Considering our levels of acquisitions in the near future, a huge amount is being lost by the exchequer and arms lobbies seem to cushion the lack of quality and workmanship in the final product.

This issue is much larger than AKA or VKS's personal honor. Can this be a paradigm shifter in the Indian Defence sector? I fear UPA will just use inertia to its advantage and let his die.

[peter]

I am concerned that this issue, like all others will be buried when the Chief retires. Graft has existed before, the scale however is perplexing now with staggering amounts being bandied about. Considering our levels of acquisitions in the near future, a huge amount is being lost by the exchequer and arms lobbies seem to cushion the lack of quality and workmanship in the final product.

It is happening because the lobbyists know they are "untouchable". The guts Tejinder Singh showed in trying to bribe General VKS in his office shows that they "know" they cannot fall. Guess why?

Could it be that the lawmakers are in bed with them?

Wow, why all this angst against Chacko-ji and his personal honor? Lets chill down guys.

Nothing personal against Chacko. Only issue is how he accuses the general of wrong doing without checking his facts.

[chackojoseph]

==================================

So you are saying no proof for you conjecture/POV yet again? Don't you get tired of inventing ficticious strawman all the time?

And are you also saying you are a better journalist than Manoj Mitta because you know the situation on the ground and he doesnt?

How did I say that there is no proof of what I said? I said its already posted yesterday. Search for it.

Then it should be easy for you to post a link for your "proof". Else it is an unfounded conjecture like many other things you have said here.

"chackojoseph"]
How come my journalism credentials come in between when we are talking about Manoj Mitta's time of India analysis and ibnlives news? I don't even hold a single share in both.[/quote]

Well you are saying your POV based on ibnlive is "closer to the ground" and is hence superior to Manoj's analysis, in which Manoj says Antony "the honest" might be headed to jail for abetting corruption because he sat on complaints for 2 years initially by Azad in 2009 and later by General VKS in 2010.

What is hard to understand here?[/quote][/quote]
===============================================


You have shown that you don't even read when posted. So why waste time with giving you links every time? The proof is there. You are afraid of searching as your lies and bad motive will come out.

I merely posted the link and highlighted some lines. You said the IBNlive is not credible and I should check my sources. The it was found that you were lying and twisting the CBI press release. How come a IBN live news is My POV?

Nothing personal against Chacko. Only issue is how he accuses the general of wrong doing without checking his facts.

I caught his lies and have not let him spread false allegations against Defence minister. The showed that he dosen't even care about Army Chief. its definitely personal and desperate.

[member_23061]

Defense is a tricky business because of its fundamental nature. Intrusive public enquiry into its functioning is also detrimental. However, this is used to their [the dalals and pimps of foreign defense companies] advantage. I don't know how much efficiency anyone can bring to the system, but I sure as heck would like the money eaten up by middlemen to be stay in India and Indian companies instead of the myriad of foreign countries that have infiltrated our MoD and defense network.

Proves that indigenous capability is being sabotaged actively. I applaud General VK Singh for going rogue. More of the same like the previous chief's would only let this issue stay buried. Atleast now, even if nothing comes of this fracas ...... no one has any illusions of what is going on.

[sukhish]

Tatra's days of monopoly are numbered. Why don't we use Tata instead tatra. These foreign defense companies have been bribing for decades. It's desi companies start getting a larger share of the pie.

[chackojoseph]

Tatra's days of monopoly are numbered. Why don't we use Tata instead tatra. These foreign defense companies have been bribing for decades. It's desi companies start getting a larger share of the pie.

They have began inducting TATA and Ural. Tatra's monopoly may be not its making. It is now that others are setting up plant and meeting the requirements of Defence ministry. Ural came in 2008. TATA / Ashok leyland is now begun producing. Mahindra is rolling in different segment etc.

[Jaybhatt]

Peter :

Please provide some "proof" for your new conjecture/POV that it is for 2009 submission and not connected to VK Singh's interview to Hindu at all.

And did you read that it is Manoj Mitta who is saying that for Tatra truck deal: Antony faces jail for neglect of duty?

So you are saying no proof for you conjecture/POV yet again? Don't you get tired of inventing ficticious strawman all the time?

And are you also saying you are a better journalist than Manoj Mitta because you know the situation on the ground and he doesnt?

Peter : please also see the altogether novel interpretation of FIR : 31 March 2012 - 11.50 (page 26 of the thread)

"A 'FIR' is something you should understand. its a first 'interim' report and it is not a final word. A charge sheet will be final. So, it doesn't establish guilt."

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Even people who are complete non-professionals know what FIR stands for, and its entire ramifications. One doesn't have to be a lawyer to be aware of this basic aspect of the Indian legal system.

If this is the level of deliberate misinformation / distortion that we will regularly see in BR forums, then we need to do some serious introspection.

[chackojoseph]

Sure people with basic knowledge of FIR can confirm what is FIR.

[Philip]

Opinions,from the N.Ind Exp. columnists on the affair:

http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/columnis ... 77842.html

The indefensible state of affairs in Defence

Shankkar Aiyar
Last Updated : 01 Apr 2012
India’s political class had yet another Eureka moment last week. It discovered the pathetic state of defence preparedness, thanks to a leaked letter from the army chief to the Prime Minister. Typically of Indian arguments, form overtook content. Rational debate was waylaid by the allure of allusions, opportunity for opportunism and the lure of lurid gossip.

This is not a one-off blip but a full-blown crisis. The optics enveloping the controversy suggests that India’s defence preparedness is held hostage by institutionalised corruption. That is certainly true but is only one of the reasons. More dangerous is the spectacle of political incompetency, domination of domain illiteracy and systemic sloth.

Consider the indefensible state of affairs. Defence preparedness needs long-term planning. China planned in 2000 for a sustained increase in defence budgets and pushed it from $15 billion to $106 billion in 2012 and is expected to double it between 2012 and 2015. India, in contrast, has repeatedly failed to plan even for a five-year period. The 10th and 11th Five Year Plans were both concluded without a long-term perspective, lurching year-to-year dependent on the vagaries of a deficit-laden budget.

In 2011, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) was supposed to finalise the Long Term Investment Plan Perspective (LTIPP) for 2012-2027. In April 2012, the first month of implementation, the LTIPP is yet to be finalised. Is it any surprise that the defence preparedness has been compromised? Consider the impact just on the Indian Navy. In 1964, the Emergency Committee of the Cabinet had accepted a force level of 138 ships for the Indian Navy. After nearly five decades, the fleet strength of the navy is only 129 to cover 2 million sq km and new threats. In 1999, the country had planned a 30-year programme for 24 modern submarines. Of these, the first will be commissioned only in 2015. Every acquisition—be it aircraft carrier, submarines or destroyers—has been delayed and costs have quadrupled.

Defence preparedness also calls for reliability and hence the need for indigenisation. Thanks to the failure of the PSUs, India is the biggest arms purchaser in the world. Yet, there is scarcely any effort to reform and refurbish defence PSUs. Take DRDO, the most blamed organisation in the defence ministry. In February 2007, the ministry appointed a committee led by P Rama Rao to review the working of DRDO. It made 28 recommendations in its report submitted in March 2008. Such was the horror that the report was instantly declared confidential and not shared even with the Standing Committee of the Defence Ministry. In March 2011, when the Standing Committee asked about the implementation of the recommendations it was informed that two new committees—Advisory Committee and Implementation Committee—had been appointed to study and implement the Rao Committee Report.

Sure, the sector has been opened to the private sector and this should help. But what has been the progress beyond the announcement? India is expected to procure in the next five to 10 years equipment worth $100 billion. The suppliers—under the terms of trade—are obliged to order works/components or seek services worth $30 billion from India. This opens new avenues for indigenisation, for Indian companies to collaborate. Fact is although the decision to implement the principle of offsets was taken in 2005, seven years later—in 2012—the policy to capitalise on the “terms of trade” is yet evolving.

It is not just funding and policy that is holding national security to ransom. The systemic sloth can ground to dust the best intentions. Consider these two instances. In May 2009, the armed forces were promised a dedicated nationwide optical fibre network. Several committees, reports, approvals and ministerial meetings later, an MoU was signed between MoD and Ministry of Communications. In August 2010, it was discovered that it would cost Rs 7,500 crore and not Rs 2,000 crore as estimated by the ministerial groups. Now BSNL is re-estimating costs and the network, which was to be delivered in December 2012, will be ready only in 2015. In August 2006, the MoD promised to connect all units of the Border Roads Organisation with a wide area network to share data, voice and video which would be of critical utility in border areas. The cost: Rs 15 crore. In 2012, all that is known is that ads were issued for expression of interest in September 2009.

India has 14,880 km of land borders touching seven countries. Sometime in 2006, a programme for greater connectivity was announced. Of the 14 railway lines promised, only three have been taken up and of the 277 roads announced, only 29 roads are complete. Among the reasons for delay are lack of clearance from environment ministry, forest and wildlife clearance and lack of capacity. Such is the collapse of systems that even the purchase of snow cutters to enable road construction now requires the intervention of the Standing Committee. China—in a comparable period—has built 10,700 km of roads connecting just the Tibetan Autonomous Region with logistics centres.

Defence preparedness has been a casualty of political pusillanimity and systemic rot. The objective of national security demands imagination to perceive future threats, intelligent planning to fund adequate capacity and administrative competency in execution. On every count, the flailing UPA leadership and the system is failing India. The UPA regime has turned abdication into an art form. Unless it wakes up to its obligations, it could—sooner than later—find itself engulfed by the rot.

http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/columnis ... 77840.html

Don’t shoot, VK Singh is the piano player!

V Sudarshan
Last Updated : 31 Mar 2012

The last few days I have been wondering at our Army Chief, General V K Singh and, collaterally, his superior, Defence Minister A K Antony. Thus far, for obvious reasons, my thoughts haven’t wandered to the supreme commander of our armed forces. My acquaintance with the armed forces is only a nodding one, limited to two or three congenial drinks at open-collar functions, after which I either nod off or break into a Hindi film song, depending on the topic of discussion. My expertise on military matters is similarly slight, all of it based on films like Kelly’s Heroes, The Great Escape, A Bridge Too Far, Bridge on the River Kwai, Guns of Navarone, Where Eagles Dare, Von Ryan’s Express, and Hindustan ki Kasam, where the wooden faced Raj Kumar provides face to a beautiful Manna Dey song, Har Taraf Ab Yahi Afsane Hai. It is easy to follow war films, where the villains are either Germans or Japanese or Pakistanis.

I must admit that nothing that the army chief V K Singh and his Defence Minister A K Anthony have been saying fall into the stereotypes provided either by Hollywood or Bollywood, where there is no shortage of impossibly heroic acts. Yet, here is an Army Chief who is so nonplussed by what he describes as a brazen attempt to bribe him with a sum of `14 crores that he does the only thing expected from an Army Chief: nothing, except tell Antony jokingly of the episode. How else can we interpret Antony’s subsequent masterful inaction, unless he thought that the Army Chief was joking or that he had heard of things much worse which puts Rs 14 crores in the ‘very small change’ category; not even a blip in the radar of corruption. All Antony reportedly did was bang his head. Against what? The only thing that has taken a knock is his ‘clean’ image. People are going to wonder if he habitually turns a Nelson’s eye to similar murky goings on in his ministry. It is certainly not a good sign of what could be happening in the Defence Ministry. My guess is defence ministers and Army Chiefs should be made of far sterner stuff.

Unless our army is an army of wimps, which I am sure it is not, a perception based, admittedly, solely on my occasional interactions of the kind I mentioned a couple of paragraphs ago, a soldier would readily be forgiven if he thought that the current Army Chief was incapable of leading from the front. If such is his behavior even in the matter of confronting bribe givers, I shudder to think of what this Army Chief and the Defence Minister would do in a real battlefield situation. My guess is they will try the unconventional method of taking the enemy to court and have lawyers do the fighting instead and appeal interminably thereafter or till the next Army Chief takes over, whichever comes first.

The other thing that I have decided is never to take a ride on an army vehicle of an unspecified variety, of which there are apparently 7,000 running around the country, all satisfyingly substandard. That last word seems to be the leitmotif. Of course I am enormously comforted by the fact that the Army Chief has informed us that it is received wisdom that “people have taken money before me and they will take money after me.” Excuse me please while I bang my head.

http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/columnis ... 77841.html

Demoralised jawans the real tragedy

Soli J Sorabjee
Last Updated : 31 Mar 2012

Army’s Tarnished Image: The army is one institution that rightly enjoys a high reputation in our country. Recent events have unfortunately tarnished its image. We witness the unusual spectacle of the army chief suing his government in court about his correct date of birth for the purpose of retirement. The chief cannot be blamed because four former chief justices of India had opined in his favour. However, after the Supreme Court did not accept his plea, he should have accepted the ruling with dignified silence without subsequently levelling allegations of conspiracy against persons said to be keen on his early retirement. Next is the disclosure by the chief of an alleged offer of bribe of Rs 14 crore by a retired army officer for sanctioning contracts for supply of sub-standard army equipment. The chief rightly reported the shameful incident to the minister. The controversy about what the chief should have done himself or what steps the defence ministry should have promptly taken is overshadowed by the timing of the disclosure. The nagging question is: Why was the chief silent for a long time and what was the necessity for disclosure now? Things get muddier with the named retired army officer filing a defamation suit against the chief and the defence minister.

The ultimate bolt is the leak of the chief’s confidential letter to the Prime Minister whose contents expose the stark unpreparedness of the army to effectively defend the nation against possible enemy attacks. There is a storm about the persons responsible for the leak. A CBI inquiry has been ordered which will take its own time. Meanwhile, irretrievable damage has been done and the beneficiaries of these sordid developments are elements inimical to India. Pakistan understandably is enjoying the situation. The Dawn, Pakistan’s influential daily, reported ‘Indian army in bad shape, Gen. Singh tells PM’, and commented that the contents of the leaked letter ‘were more likely to make Pakistan feel smug than lead to any imminent catastrophe’. Whoever is ultimately held responsible, these events have besmirched the image of the army and, worse, are bound to have a demoralising effect on our jawans who lay down their lives for the defence of the nation. And that is the real tragedy.

Soli J Sorabjee is a former Attorney General of India

[ManishH]

Brajesh Mishra on Devil's Advocate: "Army Chief should be sent on compulsory leave"

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 490485.cms

"He should be told that enjoy your two months vacation with government salary and then take pension and go home."
...
"The PM -- whom I respect so much -- is not the man who is going to leak something like that. I cannot accept that any bureaucrat in the PM residence could have given it out. So if the General himself did not leak the letter, some of his friends might have done it," he said.

Brajesh Mishra was Nat'l Security Advisor during Vajapayee govt. Amazing unity in Babudom - they all seem to unite in defence of their community in times of clash with Army or Politicians. Whereas we see much public disagreement amongst armymen.

[Austin]

I some times find hard to believe that an ex DIA guy who is no more with service would be so strong powerful and well funded that he would organise a well orchestrated campaign against Defence Minister and Army Chief......... he must be some powerful guy a state within a state.

[chackojoseph]

CBI grills Tatra's Ravi Rishi

In 2003 BEML wrote to the Central Government asking for permission to ink a joint venture with Tatra Sipox UK. BEML's claim was that since the bifurcation of Czechoslovakia Tatra Sipox UK, the marketing arm had become a major shareholder in the Czech Republic-based MS Tatra.

Since BEML had been dealing with the marketing arm for all technical arrangements to roll out the Tatra vehicles there was a need to form a joint venture in national interest

CBI issues lookout notice against Vectra chief Ravi Rishi

The CBI has issued a "look out notice" to prevent NRI businessman Ravi Rishi, owner of Britain-based Vectra group, from leaving the country, a CBI official said on Sunday.

The Central Bureau of Investigation has alerted all airports and border check points about Rishi, the official told IANS.

[Sumair]

Mr. ChakoJoseph, after having followed the thread for last 20 or so pages and reading countless posts, I am sorry to say that you too are sounding like an apologist for the congress party just like all the other special interest serving media types, who are hell bent on shooting the messenger and thus very effectively taking the attention away from the real issues.
Ultimate responsibility and accountability always lies with the CEO. No excuses.

[chackojoseph]

Mr. ChakoJoseph, after having followed the thread for last 20 or so pages and reading countless posts, I am sorry to say that you too are sounding like an apologist for the congress party just like all the other special interest serving media types, who are hell bent on shooting the messenger and thus very effectively taking the attention away from the real issues.
Ultimate responsibility and accountability always lies with the CEO. No excuses.

If you read my political commentaries on my site, you will see the opposite. Also, I don't agree with your opinion on rest of the allegations.

Every organisation, even Congress, has some good people like AK Antony. No harm in telling the truth.

People say he has been "keeping Quite" about corruption and there by supporting Congress corruption. This I differ.

[anmol]

Mr. ChakoJoseph, after having followed the thread for last 20 or so pages and reading countless posts, I am sorry to say that you too are sounding like an apologist for the congress party just like all the other special interest serving media types, who are hell bent on shooting the messenger and thus very effectively taking the attention away from the real issues.
Ultimate responsibility and accountability always lies with the CEO. No excuses.

If you read my political commentaries on my site, you will see the opposite. Also, I don't agree with your opinion on rest of the allegations.

Every organisation, even Congress, has some good people like AK Antony. No harm in telling the truth.

People say he has been "keeping Quite" about corruption and there by supporting Congress corruption. This I differ.

Did he say/do anything after being told about the bribe.. other than to request Army chief himself(who was the witness and accuser) to himself investigate whether Army Chief is telling the truth or not..

I have to agree with what Sumair and others are saying.

[chackojoseph]

Marten,

The stereotype of a Kerala Christian defending another exists only in the minds of people. It has got nothing to do with me. There is no anti-dote for suspicion.

Parochia........ Dictionary meaning
1) Of or relating to a church parish
2) Having a limited or narrow outlook or scope.

We always joke that the detractors are have more parochial instincts than us.

=================================================

anmol,

You are rich my friend. You agreement with Sumair is your personal impression.

But, you state the fact wrong

Did he say/do anything after being told about the bribe.. other than to request Army chief himself(who was the witness and accuser) to himself investigate whether Army Chief is telling the truth or not..

Link

"My timings of raising bribery issue have been questioned," he said, clarifying that this was because the bribery issue has revived now because the person in question re-surfaced in March. He said that institutional corrective steps were taken earlier after his talks with AK Antony.

No matter how much you attack my personal credibility, my journalistic credibility, my faith credibility etc. AK Antony, MM Palam Raju, VKS, former IAF Chief Major Fali and the naval chiefs are on my A list.

At the same time, I reserve the right to change my opinion, doubt them etc. it is not a blank cheque. Trust but verify.

[member_23061]

Questioning Chackoji on the basis of religion/ethnicity is uncalled for. Irrespective of what anyone says, the law will take its own course. As citizens of India, we need to ensure that pressure is maintained. This is the money you and I earned that is being looted. Direct taxes, Indirect taxes, etc .... we are all paying the government in our own way.

RG and Kangress have always maintained that they only listen to the vote. Let them hear our jappad ringing in their ears very soon and in every manner possible.

[Pranav]

I some times find hard to believe that an ex DIA guy who is no more with service would be so strong powerful and well funded that he would organise a well orchestrated campaign against Defence Minister and Army Chief......... he must be some powerful guy a state within a state.

Don't mistake a henchman for the boss.

[Pranav]

Apparently a "suicide note" has now been discovered in the MoD official death case.

Seems to be a cover-up ... initial interviews with close relatives did not indicate that the fellow was under great stress. It suggests even more strongly that the deaths are indeed linked to the leaked letter affair.

[chaanakya]

Tatra truck deal case: CBI impounds passport of British businessman Ravi Rishi

There is a look out notice on RR. It seems VKS talked about Alleged bribery case when RR was in Desh for defexpo. Now he cant leave without getting caught if there is some truth in the allegation.

AKA talked about reason for not taking action on the info given by VKS in parliament and then it came to light that this whole thing is known to Congoons since 2009 and some sort of Vigilance inquiry or inquiry by Secy Defence production is going on. Why AKA did not talk about this in Parliament is strange and could have saved his image. But then it would have also revealed the fact that Congoons knew about Tatra creame pie long before VKS took charge in 2010 and shut down the route.

Now RR chap links with RG and that should be worrying for 2Gs and as damaging as FH77 saga. VKS has taken on where none dare to tread.

[chackojoseph]

Ravi Rishi: Head of Vectra Group that sells Tatra trucks seems to enjoy interrogative attention Some excerpts:

referring to Army chief VK Singh: "I was born in Rohtak in Haryana, not far from Bhiwani where my good friend comes from." And he guffaws.

With the probe into the alleged bribe offered to Singh leading to him, Rishi, chairman of the UK-based $800-million Vectra Group which sells Tatra trucks, appears to relish the publicity. "I just told a TV channel that Singh is suffering from 'menopause syndrome', with weeks left for his retirement," Rishi declares with faux anger, which soon gives way to more guffaws and cigarettes.

====================

The Indian Army has used Tatra trucks for nearly 26 years, of which for the past 19 years the company has been under Rishi's ownership.
=====================

"Previous chiefs of army staff [such as] JJ Singh and Shankar Roy Chowdhury had great things to say about Tatra trucks. Singh had compared the Tatra to Mercedes. Chaudhary was mightily impressed when he came to Slovakia to visit a Tatra factory," claims Rishi.

====================

"This chief has some ulterior motive," he alleges, adding he has never known Lt Gen Tejinder Singh, former director general of India's Defence Intelligence Agency, whose name has done the rounds as the person who tried to bribe VK Singh on behalf of Tatra.

=====================

After the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991, Rishi started picking up "business assets" from Czechoslovakia either to "turn them around and then sell to make good profit or to retain them", he says. "We acquired 17 factories in 1991-92 alone. Czechoslovakia was well-known for automotive engineering units. So we picked up factories making bearings, woodworking, cranes, etc," says he.

"We got into trucks the year Czechoslovakia was divided into Slovakia and Czech Republic - in 1993," says the man who has never lived in East Europe. "You have great incentives in going there, but not in living there." He guffaws and then settles for a bland smile.

Vectra owns 100% of Tatra Slovakia and nearly 66% of Tatra Czech Republic, claims he. "The undercarriage [for Tatra trucks] is made in Slovakia. Engines, cabin etc are made in the Czech Republic," he says of the vehicle that is in the eye of a storm in India.

"We sell Tatra trucks to 58 countries and 38 armies and they include the US, Russia, Israel, Brazil, UAE and others," Rishi says. Interestingly, on Tatra Czech Republic's website, Rishi finds mention only as a member of its supervisory board.
====================================

Rishi makes light of the charge that Tatra trucks are exorbitantly priced: "I make more money selling them to the US or to Israel or to Malaysia or Brazil than to India."

"If you want money out of defence deals, it comes from there," says the father of four - three daughters and a son. His eldest daughter is a lawyer, the second a banker, the third head of his aviation business and the son an engineering student.

[chackojoseph]

Sometimes I think that the engineers from there should have been picked up and employed till we would have learnt how to make such things.

[chaanakya]

Sure people with basic knowledge of FIR can confirm what is FIR.

154. Information in cognizable cases.

(1) Every information relating to the commission of a cognizable offence, if given orally to an officer in charge of a police station, shall be reduced to writing by him or under his direction, and be read over to the informants and every such information, whether given in writing or reduced to writing as aforesaid, shall be signed by the person giving it, and the substance thereof shall be entered in a book to be kept by such officer in such form as the State Government may prescribe in this behalf.

(2) A copy of the information as recorded under sub-section (1) shall be given forthwith, free of cost, to the informant.

(3) Any person, aggrieved by a refusal on the part of an officer in charge of a police station to record the information referred to in sub-section (1) may send the substance of such information, in writing and by post, to the Superintendent of Police concerned who, if satisfied that such information discloses the commission of a cognizable offence, shall either investigate the case himself or direct an investigation to be made by any police officer Subordinate to him, in the manner provided by this Code, and such officer shall have all the powers of an officer in charge of the police station in relation to that offence.

The Word First , though not used in the section, is appended generally since that is the first time any information is legally brought to the notice of police. Hence it is called First Information Report. Anyone including Police can register FIR.

[chackojoseph]

Yes right. I practically experienced FIR few months back. Here is how it goes.

A person has to file FIR with police for getting them act on a case
The police does its inquiry, prepares a charge sheet and then depending upon it case may forward it to a magistrate.
The person who filed FIR (and if the counter FIR is filed), then he (and the counter FIR registrant) hire a lawyer and the lawyer amends or expands FIR. I am sure you must have read in news paper that the Police registered FIR in some other section and then they were forced to change it by the complainants lawyer.
The concerned parties then slug it out in the court.

So a FIR is not final, the charge sheet is.

Same in 2G. A Raja was kept in jail based on FIR, then a charge sheet was made and then released. Same with kalamadi etc.

I got to know about it from a EC official who was explaining the it to me during an interaction Make Election bribery a cognizable offence under the IPC : EC . although the article is for asking for non-cognisable to cognisable, if you notice, a cognisable offense helps them to reach magistrate faster and take action faster. However, making it a cognisable offense does not establish people guilty.

In this case too:

1) CBI filed an FIR with cognisable tag.
2) Then did the questioning / inquiry. But, have not filed chargesheet and taken him to the magistrate. They might or might not arrest him, but have made sure that he does not get out. nest step is charge sheet, which also does not establish guilt. Only the outcome of the case, the evidence etc will establish the out come and the acquittal/punishment will be handed over. If a party is not happy, then goes to Hc or SC depending.

[Pranav]

Brajesh Mishra has lost his mental balance. See his foul-mouthed interview to Karan Thapar -

General VK Singh is the worst Army Chief so far: Brajesh Mishra - http://ibnlive.in.com/news/general-sing ... 782-3.html