Yeah,ramana wrote:RajeshA Take a look at this book
Life in Ancient Indus River Valley
The narrative on page 4 is what needs to be demolished.
they all love to post-date the Vedic Age!
Yeah,ramana wrote:RajeshA Take a look at this book
Life in Ancient Indus River Valley
The narrative on page 4 is what needs to be demolished.
-Rig Veda, tr. by Ralph T.H. GriffithHYMN VI. Agni.
1. PRAISE of the Asura, high imperial Ruler, the Manly One in whom the folk shall triumph-
I laud his deeds who is as strong as Indra, and lauding celebrate the Fort-destroyer.
2 Sage, Sing, Food, Light,—they bring him from the mountain, the blessed Sovran of the earth and heaven.
I decorate with songs the mighty actions which Agni, Fort-destroyer, did aforetime.
3 The foolish, faithless, rudely-speaking niggards, without belief or sacrifice or worship,—
Far far sway hath Agni chased those Dasytis, and, in the cast, hath turned the godless westward.
4 Him who brought eastward, manliest with his prowess, the Maids rejoicing in the western darkness,
That Agni I extol, the Lord of riches, unyielding tamer of assailing foemen.
5 Him who brake down the walls with deadly weapons, and gave the Mornings to anoble Husband,
Young Agni, who with conquering strength subduing the tribes of Nahus made them bring their tribute.
6 In whose protection all men rest by nature, desiring to enjoy his gracious favour-
Agni Vaiśvānara in his Parents, bosom hath found the choicest seat in earth and heaven.
7 Vaiśvānara the God, at the sun's setting, hath taken to himself deep-hidden treasures:
Agni hath taken them from earth and heaven, from the sea under and the sea above us.
7.6.3 - ny akratUn grathino mRdhravAcaH paNIMr ashraddhAM avRdhAM ayajnAn |ravi_g wrote:Can someone attest to the authenticity of this?
Book 7 Hymn 6, RV.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv07006.htm-Rig Veda, tr. by Ralph T.H. GriffithHYMN VI. Agni.
3 The foolish, faithless, rudely-speaking niggards, without belief or sacrifice or worship,—
Far far sway hath Agni chased those Dasytis, and, in the cast, hath turned the godless westward.
4 Him who brought eastward, manliest with his prowess, the Maids rejoicing in the western darkness,
That Agni I extol, the Lord of riches, unyielding tamer of assailing foemen.
Lalmohan, I think there are plenty of Indian language commentaries and interpretations of the Vedas, but we have "kept them to ourselves" - that is to say that they have not received attention/translation into English. This is partly because of the English vs non English divide in India that mad a huge economic difference to the English crowd and left the non English speakers in doodoo. What we are seeing today is a whole bunch of the privileged English speaking crowd of India (and that included many of us on BRF) suddenly realizing what has been discarded as we all joined the Macaulay economic bandwagon.Lalmohan wrote:^^^ not without a credible alternative narrative
Ramana clearly more work is needed here.ramana wrote:Kanson, I don't know Tamil but could an early version of Tamil be PIE? Lets not go into scripts. Just the language.
The root of the word God is not certain and two separate roots are given above. The Proto Indo European cooked up word along with Sanskrit root "huta-" are unconvincing to me although I am sure there will be some long winded phonetic connections made to the Rig Veda, Indra, Horse and chariotO.E. god "supreme being, deity; the Christian God; image of a god; godlike person," from P.Gmc. *guthan (cf. O.S., O.Fris., Du. god, O.H.G. got, Ger. Gott, O.N. guð, Goth. guþ), from PIE *ghut- "that which is invoked" (cf. O.C.S. zovo "to call," Skt. huta- "invoked," an epithet of Indra), from root *gheu(e)- "to call, invoke." But some trace it to PIE *ghu-to- "poured," from root *gheu- "to pour, pour a libation" (source of Gk. khein "to pour," also in the phrase khute gaia "poured earth," referring to a burial mound; see found (2)). "Given the Greek facts, the Germanic form may have referred in the first instance to the spirit immanent in a burial mound"
"Kadavul" in Tamil just comes from "Kada" meaning remain/stay and "Ull" meaning inside. So Kadavul is that which remains within (oneself obviously).shiv wrote:God in Sanskrit (as per a dictionary in front of me right now in case someone mistakenly believes that I am not consulting a dictionary) has many synonyms including deva, which is connected with the origin of the word "deity", But God actually sounds like the word "Kadaval" in Tamil. With, god, khuda, deva and kadaval all being words for the same or similar concept - the push for a narrow "Indo-Euroepan" origin for a concept that may be much older may be misplaced. There are connections with languages that go beyond the parochial Indo-European obsession.
Sounds suspiciously similar to "khuda" (etymology unknown to me) and "swayambhu" - self existent (God) of Sanskrit.Dan Mazer wrote:"Kadavul" in Tamil just comes from "Kada" meaning remain/stay and "Ull" meaning inside. So Kadavul is that which remains within (oneself obviously).shiv wrote:God in Sanskrit (as per a dictionary in front of me right now in case someone mistakenly believes that I am not consulting a dictionary) has many synonyms including deva, which is connected with the origin of the word "deity", But God actually sounds like the word "Kadaval" in Tamil. With, god, khuda, deva and kadaval all being words for the same or similar concept - the push for a narrow "Indo-Euroepan" origin for a concept that may be much older may be misplaced. There are connections with languages that go beyond the parochial Indo-European obsession.
The only Sanskrit words I was able to find are related to "sheeta' (as in sheetal). But the most ridiculous thing I found while looking at the online etymology dictionary was the word "freeze" which for a completely inexplicable reason includes the sanskrit root for "burnt" (prustah). wtf? Are these guys mad? Please don't give me that tripe telling me that very cold feels like very hot so cold=hot.O.E. cald (Anglian), ceald (W.Saxon) "cold, cool" (adj.), "coldness," from P.Gmc. *kaldaz (cf. O.Fris., O.S. kald, O.H.G., Ger. kalt, O.N. kaldr, Goth. kalds "cold"), possibly a pp. adjective of *kal-/*kol-, from PIE root *gel-/*gol- "cold" (cf. L. gelare "to freeze," gelu "frost," glacies “ice”).
The first principle is of vital importance in connection with a subject that has never been thoroughly examined the race to which the Dravidian nations belong Since the learned book by Dr Caldwell Comparative Grammar of the Dravidian languages was issued it has been taken for granted that the Tamils are a Turanian people The progress of philological enquiry and the new means of analysis furnished by the great German writers on language have shown the error of this classification Driven at a very early period into the extreme south and cut off by vast oceans from intercourse with other peoples the Dravidian nations have preserved with singular purity the vocabulary they brought with them and it is probably not extravagant or untrue to say that there is not one true Dravidian root common to the three great branches Tamil Telugu and Canarese that cannot be clearly shown to be Aryan As an interesting example both of the true character of the language and the linguistic progress made since the publication of Dr Caldwell's book it may be noted that the learned doctor gives an appendix containing a considerable number of Dravidian words which he asserts to be Scythian and most efficient witnesses to prove the Turanian origin of the language It is now known that every word in this list is distinctly Aryan although some of them have representatives in the Finnish group of Turanian tongues the group which has been most constantly exposed to Aryan influences The greater portion of them are included in Fick's Indogermanischen Grundsprachc as Aryan roots although Fick does not appear to have seen Caldwell's work."
Reference:Second that the true meaning of the word Pey or Pennu is not devil but light But Dr Caldwell asserts that the word is Sanscrit nor related to Sanscrit This is a error Before Caldwell wrote it had been noted that the Dravidian Pe or Pey is identical the root of the Sanscrit pi sacha meaning a devil malevolent being The words are interchangeable There is no reason to suppose that the Tamil word derived from Sanscrit or vice versa yet the roots identical But Sanscrit authorities ascribe to a root pis to adorn and this as given by Benfey has the parallel form pimsa from the root pirns shine This exact coincidence in both and Sanscrit forms proves their identity beyond doubt The Sanscrit forms just quoted belong to the great cluster of important roots has its centre in Bhd to shine Thus the Tamil and the Khond Pennu find their exact in the Greek phao and phaino from the root pha The same derivative appears in the gods Phanos Phaetkon
Disclaimer: I fundamentally disagree with trying to find similarity in languages across time and geography.The archaeological ndings from India and the discovery of the astronomy
of the Vedic period are fatal for the constructions of historical
linguistics that arose in the 19th century and are still being
followed in schoolbooks in India although textbooks in theWest have
begun to present the new picture. While the general language categories
seem reasonable, the concept of overlapping families seems
essential to obtain better conceptual clarity. The Indic family is an
example of such overlapping families.
The breakdown of the old paradigm calls for considerable eort
to create a new one to take its place. In particular, the emerging
chronological framework can be used to examine the relationships
between Sanskrit and other ancient Indo-European languages. Etymological
dictionaries should be revised to take note of the antiquity
of Vedic Sanskrit. If PIE did not exist, can we extrapolate from the
earliest layer of Vedic Sanskrit for correlations with life in prehistoric
Harappan India?
Saar, those are recent imports during colonial are (along with maangai - mango etc)Murugan wrote:Mulligatawny = Milagu Tanni (Tamil)
Catamaran = kattoo Maram (Tamil)
There is a world language called "Nostratic"RajeshA wrote:I had read somewhere there was an effort to find a Proto-Dravido-Sanskrit language, and it already had a few words! Forgotten its name. I think it started with 'N'.
Thanks!shiv wrote:There is a world language called "Nostratic"RajeshA wrote:I had read somewhere there was an effort to find a Proto-Dravido-Sanskrit language, and it already had a few words! Forgotten its name. I think it started with 'N'.
Venug ji,venug wrote:Kanson ji,
Your story reminds me of another:
Legend has it that Agastya maha muni, wanted to study the Veda (only one at that time), so knowing that it is voluminous, he approaches Brahma and asks him to grant him 1000 years, so he grants. Agastya then proceeds and starts to study Veda, 1000 years pass, Brahma comes to him and asks about his progress, Agastya then says he has barely started and he needs 1000 more years...so this goes one for sometime, then finally Brahma says to Agastya showing distant mountain, if that is Veda, what you studied for so many thousands of years is this and takes a pinch pof sand and shows it. It is then Agastya muni observes "if I with thousands of years of longevity couldn't complete studying the Veda, what is to tell about mere mortals". it is then that 4 abridged versions of vedas in the current form took form.
Yes there is quite amount of hyperbole in the above anecdote, but one can just say or surmise that Vedas are pretty old.
It mmight just turn out that way.RajeshA wrote: But we should make the connection between Classical Tamil and Vedic Sanskrit much stronger, strong enough to encompass even those words which are considered purely Indo-European. Though as you correctly pointed out Nostratic is not the way.
That would make PIE people eat humble pie!
Hungarian Critics of the "Indo-European" Scheme
For instance, in Hungary, there is a growing body of scholars who are extremely uncomfortable and dissatisfied with the manner in which Hungarian was excluded from the Indo-European framework. Hungary's T. Majlath notes that "Critics of the Finno-Ugric theory argue that it became highly popular when the Hapsburgs sought to put the Hungarians in their place not long after the failed Hungarian War of Independence of 1848, when Linguistics had not as yet developed into the "exact" science it is today."
In recent decades, several Hungarian and other Eastern European scholars have attempted to build lexicons comparing Hungarian words with their Slavic counterparts. Unsurprisingly, these lexicons show that the distance between Hungarian and the Slavic langauges spoken by its closest neighbors in Europe is not as large as might be implied by the conscious and deliberate exclusion of Hungarian from the "Indo-European " schemata that includes all the Slavic languages but excludes Hungarian. Others have built lexicons comparing Hungarian with Sanskrit and Tamil (along the lines of the lexicons built by adherents of the "Indo-European" formula), and again, they show that a selective interpretation of these lexicons could well lead to a new classification in which both Tamil and Sanskrit would end up in the same family of languages as Hungarian.
Yet to Employ Computerized Statistical Analysis
As some modern linguists have argued, the inclusion or exclusion of a language in a particular family must be based on very precise and consistent criterion that should be backed up computerized statistical analysis. For instance, there are some Indian language scholars who have suggested that a computerized analysis of Sanskrit and Latin lexicons might yield a far more limited overlap than would be rationally implied by the "Indo-European" classification.
In fact, such analysis might reveal a greater overlap between North Indian and South Indian langauages as well as between Adivasi langauges and their neighboring Indic langauges that are presently placed under the "Indo-European" umbrella.
But to date, advocates of the Indo-European paradigm have strenuously resisted such calls for a fresh and unbiased scientific analysis of their classification methods. Nor have they been open to analyzing their conclusions in the context of geography, archaeology, anthropology, trade ties, cultural exchanges and regional political developments.
Few linguists ascribing to the Indo-European/Dravidian divide have bothered to investigate the extent of commonality between Sanskrit or Tamil or Munda and Hindi or Tibetan and Bengali. The possibilities of overlapping vocabularies or shared words between langauges that are currently placed in different linguistic streams has simply not interested many Western-influenced Indian linguists.
This link sums up the irritation I see in this brainless PIE quest which , like a pestilence, has infested all language links.From the point of view of classifying languages based on the organizational principles that govern their written scripts no logic would permit the Sanskrit-derived North Indian langauges to be placed in the same language group as the European languages.
For instance, languages (such as Chinese or Japanese) that use pictograms, logograms and ideograms in their written form are a unique group of languages and are classified as "Semanto-phonetic". To understand the development of such languages using morphological and entymological constructs as described by Sanskrit linguists such as Yaska or Panini would be absurd.
Yet, Western scholars seem to have no difficulty in clubbing Sanskrit with English and French even though the manner in which Sanskrit developed and was formalized was entirely unknown and alien to the Europeans. On the other hand, structurally speaking (notwithstanding some differences), Sanskrit and Tamil are like sisters, yet many Westerners persist with placing them in entirely different language families.
Pan-Indic and Pan-Asian Commonalities
In their manner of organizing syllables and writing, all Sanskrit and Tamil derived Indian languages are similar which should place them all in a common Indic language group. Moreover, they share this organizational feature with the Ethiopic Ge-ez, Tibetan, Sinhala, Burmese, Thai, Khmer, earlier Lao, the pre-colonial Philipino Baybayin script for Tagalog, Balinese and Javanese. The Korean Hangul also shares certain commonalities. (Langauges like Arabic and Hebrew are partially syllabic in that consonants are precisely denoted but vowel sounds are usually omitted and implied by the context.)
This would suggest that in the pre-colonial world, there was a broad similarity in language scripts that extended across the Indian Ocean from Ethiopia to Indonesia and extended further to the Phillipines and Thailand.
Since the written form of any language represents it in its most advanced form, it is curious how Western linguists and their Indian apologists have strangely ignored this important facet in classifying the langauges of the world. Nor have they analyzed the important cultural and sociological implications of this shared heritage.
Sir ji, I don't have direct answer but I will try to give not a casual reply.ramana wrote:Kanson, I don't know Tamil but could an early version of Tamil be PIE? Lets not go into scripts. Just the language.
Now Ka, its meaning and examples:Tholkaappiyam says each word in Tamil has its own hidden original meaning, so I am in the process of finding the meaning of sounds/letters , I think I am little successful in decoding most and surprised to see the real hidden meaning behind some commonly used nouns in Tamil.
I will list out the Tamil letter sounds with their meaning and some example Tamil words. If you want to know the root meaning of some Tamil word, you can easily find out splitting the sounds and get its meaning using the list below, this is a partial list, more will be added.
We will see some interesting words related to Tamil sounds Ka, Kal, Kar, Kai etc. all meaning “Get/Gain/Know-கிடைப்பது“, lets see some of the related words with meanings,
Kalvi: Leaning, [From which we get/gain(ka) about a place(l)]
Karuthu : Inner Meaning, the message.
Karai : Melt out
Kara: Extract.
What we get+Taking to கிடைப்பது + கொண்டு செல்வது
Kai, Karam: Hand - to take.
Karam=Ka+aram is doing the task of Take+Give which is the hand.
This much pristine and primeval it can be. The point is Tamil cannot be a derived language from some other language. It should be one of the original language of this planet so one can definitely attest its antiquity and primes the ground for PIE discussion.Kadavul : Its one of the interesting word formed in Tamil, “Kadavul” the word refers to God, and this word sounds similar to the english word “God”.
Now we will split up the word KadavUL into its basic sounds to get the meaning.
Ka+da+vu+l literally means, Gains + moves + inside
The “Ka+da” here means “Gains + Moves”, so Kadavul literally is one who “Gains and pushes, could refer the one who guides.
Other explanation is Ka+da =”Gain + Move” means to “Cross or Overcome” and “Vul” is whatever existing.. so KadaVul = One who is above everything, one who had overcome the self or existence.
Lets see the other words for the different names of God.
Iraivan: Irai+van an interesting word, இ+றை(e+rai) (the sound “Rai” means “take to + within possession”
இறைவன் என்றால் “விட்டுவிடாமல் பிடித்து வைத்திருப்பவன்” அல்லது “விட்டுவிடாமல் கொண்டு சேர்ப்பவன்”
தெய்வம் : தெளிவு படுத்துபவை (Those which Explains/Announce/Guides to the goodness) Is another great word in Tamil and has a very deep meaning. It doesn’t mean a God or a person but it represents the nature’s actions and reactions that guides anyone. These are natural objects and events that favors anyone with some help, The Sanskrit word Deva is again means the same Tamil word Deivam, as the original concept of Deivam’s got forgotten in history and the various Deivam’s became personalities with unique traits shape and form.
MuruKan: is called Tamil Kadavul, this word “Murukan” often refered as Murugu,
Mu+Ru+Ku mean
Mu=Occupying a place inside +
Ru + That which is taken inside +
Ku/Ka=Gaining inside,
here Muru means “That which is trying to get inside or detract our minds” combined the word முருகு or முருகன் means “One who knows or Gains the distraction” or one who saves us from the distraction and enlighten us.
PerumAl: The hidden almighty.
Easan: Refers to Easwaran, “Eesan – Ee+San” literally means one who gives more or to multiple. ” Ee” is to give and “San” refers to group/United.
Sivan: is widely Worshipped God in India and Tamil Nadu, Sivan (Si+Van) in Tamil means “Destroyer of Evil/Bad” , “Si” means to “make disappear” or “to Make Small” and “Van” means Hardness, or refers to the Maleness.
Ayyanar: One who answers our problems or one who can guide us.
Aandavan: “Aand+Avan” means the first one who controlled/ruled everything (the 5 senses).
Ganesan: Kana+Easan in Tamil could mean one who “Watches and Gives” “Kanithu Koduppavan(கணித்து ஈபவன்)”
Kana in Kanavan(Husband/Savior/Guardian/One who watches), Kanakku(Calculating), Kanal etc all came from the Tamil word Kan(Eye).
and the list is endless and any linguistic who has an interest can check the blog.But this list is about those English words that sounds the same in Tamil and with similar meaning, these words originated in Tamil and could have ancient connections with some old Proto European language. Some words may be loan words from other languages.
Collar, Collum, Hals (neck related words) : Kaluthu (neck)
Know:Kan (Tamil word Kan means (Eye) (This should be the root of many IE words that starts with Kn/Gn) , Latin “Con“ also should be related with this word “Kan” (eye) in Tamil, primarily to mean “Gain within” for example words like “consider” “conceal”, “Conduct” are some of the con words. The word “Ken” is widely used in Old European languages “to Know”.
Aern/Rann : Aran (Aran in Tamil means safeguarding, Aranmanai is palace)
Pare : Pirai (Crescent moon, New moon) (Literally it should be “to show only a little” like a crescent moon.)
Daemon/Devil: Theemai,Theeyavai (Bad/Evil, that which destroys, from the word “Thee” which means “fire”)
Bleach : Vilakku (To clear off, Lighten, Lamp) Vilakkam is explanation ie. “To make one understand”, Latin words like fulgere, flamma, flagrare etc. also has the connection.
Pore/Furrow : Purai
Towel : Thuhil
Cup : Kuvalai
Oath : Othu -To read (loudly)
Eva-porate – Aavi (Steam) Inverse of “Aavi” is “Evaa”.
Inhale : Nukar
Nod : Nadungu
Curious : Kurippu (Giving hints, Giving Clue, Notes) Kurithu – Give attention to.
Cure : Kurai (To reduce, To lessen) “Kuru” means Narrow, Compact
Fast : Pasi (Hunger)
Flesh/Foul : Pulaal/Pulai
Wonder : Viyan, Viyappu
Sweat : Viyarthal
Gray/Grey : Kari (Black)
Harvest : Aruvadai(Aru(to cut) and V+adai(To stock in possession)
Gallows : Kalu (Wooden for impaling criminals, Ka+l+u(Gain+in a place+inside),
Kaluthai(Donkey) , Kalugu (eagle), Kaluthu(neck) all carry things.
Arable : Er (Plough)(The “E” is the long sound “Ae” referring to the inaccessible place it reach to.)
Finish : Pin(Behind)/Pini(everything lost/hardship)/Pinbu/Pinnaal(Time after/back)/Pinam(Corpse)
Bait : Pakadai
Gate : Kathavu
Fact/Factorial/Factory/ : Vakuthu/Vakunthu (means “to divide, To make(“Thittam Vakuthal”=To make a plan), To make it small)
Pacify/Peace/Pact/Pactum : Paku/Pakutthu/Pakuthi ( To split even between, To share, To allow access within), Padinthu/Padi means (To accept/agree with, to stay calm, To settle in bottom).
Accept: Isaipadu/Isaiputhal (To accept)
Female/Femina(Latin): Pen/Penmai
Function : Panbu/Pani
Annual/Annus : Aandu
Field/Villa/Ville : Vayal(means Farm)
From : Varum (means “comes to a place”)
Find: Pidi-பிடி (in Tamil it means to “Get hold of”)
Fog/Fumigare : Pukai
Fond : Punar (Copulate)
Mature: Muthir-முதிர் ( More older state, Well experienced (for a long time)) (Muthiyavar means old man) (“MootthOr” means elder)
Craft : Kalam-கலம் (Old word for “Ship”, “Plates” in Tamil) Literally “Ka=To gain + La=in a place + M=Occupying” so kalam is something thats “enclosed object to gain certain things/people”.
Burrow : Putru (புற்று, Snake, Rabit, Rat hole etc..)
Turban : Thalapaa (Head+ Cover) (“Thalai” in Tamil is head, The L changed to R)
Cluster : Kulai (Grouped as one, bunch/cluster)
Habit : Pahattu-பகட்டு (in Tamil Pahattu means “to act in a way“, “A posture“)
Cot : Kattil-கட்டில்
Goat : Kadaa (male goat)
Pain : Pini-பிணி (Under control using force, Inflicting hardship, Treating as slaves)
Punishment : Pani/Paninthu/Paninthal-பணி (Work/Under control/Working under kings order)
Tie/Teag/Taug/Knot: Kat, Kattu (Tieg) (inverse sound ) (Ka= Gain, Ta/Da = Movement)
Lion/Leo : Ari (Interestingly Ari or Aryeh is Hebrew word for Lion, and the L and R shift is common between many languages)
Bene~/Benefit : Payan-பயன்
Nation : Naadu-நாடு (Naadu means Native country in Tamil) (They say the word “nation” and “Native” comes from the Latin word “natus”)
Climate : Kilamai (Its a word that defines seven days of the week representing seven planetary bodies including Sun and Moon, also means “under its control”)
Hour : Kaala, Kaalai (“a time”, in Tamil) and the word “period” could be “Poludu”
Year : Gyaairu (Sun in Tamil)
Torque / Turn / Drehen(German) : Thiruhi, Thirukku (Thirumbu=Turn Back) etc…
Dream : ThOrram (Appearance, Look) The meaning is not the same.
dis-Turb -Thiritharu, Thiri, Thiribu (here Turb should be equal to Thi+ri which in Tamil means change or Losing its current state)
Funeral /Funus : Pinam-பிணம் (means Corpse in Tamil)
Water Lily : Alli (May be of the same family, not sure if both names refer the same flower)
Wealth : Valam-வளம்
Girl: Kilathi (Lead women, Rich Girl)
Guard/Garden : Kaadu-காடு (Forest, Field etc… literally Kaadu means “Gain + Hidden + Move + Inside” forests are well protected and not easy to move inside. In Tamil Kaathal means “To Protect”.
Pandal -Panthal
Friend/Favour/Free : Parinthu/Pattru/Parivu (Parivu word in Tamil means to show favour or affection)
Betel – VetElai
Action: Aakkam(To create/To prepare)
Level: Alavu
Teak – ThEkku-தேக்கு (refers to Teak, Literally ThEkku=Having with + difficult + Gain in)
Mad: Madamai (Mada = Moving mind, Not Stable Mind)
Mind/Math : Mathi(not sure)
Copra – Kopparai
Give/ Yield – Eekai
Sound: Osai
Surround: Chutru/Chutram
Ginger – Ingee (Ginger)
Rain : Neer(it means Water) But the word “Nero” in Greek means water. and in Etruscan “Nier” is water.
Drum : Murasu (Inverse of sound)
Nail : Aani
Lemon – Elumichai
Oral/Oration/Orate/Oracle : Urai-உரை ( Tamil it means To Speak, To give some news )
Villain: Villan(In Tamil it means “One who is with the Bow”)
Orange – NaarthanKaai (A fruit with smell) (Naatram in Tamil means smell) (“Naa” sound in Tamil means “We Get hidden” like in Naakku, Naai, Naatram, Naakku etc..)
God -Kadavul-கடவுள்
Cuff : Kaappu-காப்பு
Quest/Question : KEtpathu, KEl, KEtpa
Swear/Swor/An-Swer : Sol/Sor (சொற்)
Petal -Ithal
Cigarette/Cheroot – Churuttu -(Cigar made by rolling tobacco leaves).
Kill -Koll
Seer – Seer (to make things right) The words Juri, Justice also should also be from this origin, “Seer Thooku” means “To take things right”.
Birth - Piranthu [In Tamil "Pira" means Other one, new one]
Bird – Paravai [In tamil Para is to spread out] Pa+ra to “More + taking to” the action to fly.
Clay/Glue - Kali-களி (Ka=Gain + L+i= In a place +not to give out) It refers to the sticky nature )
Capture -Kaipatru, [In Tamil "Ka" means to Gain/know something, kai, Karam is Hand etc. Kar means Gaining . Words like Carry, Carrier too were close to Kar]
Irrigate : Iraithal (Neer Iraithal , Etram Iraithal is the age old method of irrigating land using well or pond water.)
Get/Take/Tacan/Tacken : Kadan (inverse sound) (Kadan in modern Tamil means “Loan” but literally it means “having something to be given back” and some places it means “duty to return some favor received”.
Bring/Brought: Peruka/Peruthal (பெறு)
Big/Broad : Peru (பெரு) /Parutha (I think the word “Veengu” could be more close to “Big”)
More : Mali மலிந்த
Touch: Thodu
One/Uni/Unite: Onru, Onri, Onnuthal etc… (in Tamil the sound “O” comes in words to mean “unite” )
Five:Ainthu
Eight: Ettu
Vision: Vili (To see) [In Tamil the sound "Vi" means "To come out, Visible etc..." words like Vidai, Vilai, Vili, Vidu,Viri ]
Voice : Vaai (“Vaai” refers to “mouth”)
Valve – Vaayil (Opening, Door)
Axle : Acchu + Ach+Chu = அ+ச்+சு = Join inside.
Age : Aayul
Easy/aisie: Eliya/ElithE
Roll/Round: Urul :Rotating or Round, Urulai means Sphere. Uru means shape.
River: Aaru/Aruvi (Other European words for river are Ryo, Rio…) in Tamil AA+ru means “Source unknown + Takes to here”
Rice – Arici (Ari means to “Take within” and si= After breaking/removing)
Reap:Aruppu (Aru means to “Take to inside” “pp” = Many)
Rich: Arasu(Arasu means kingdom in Tamil, The sound Ara= “the action of taking to” and “Su” = “Join inside” meant the “kingdom” the which distributes wealth)
Right: Uriyathu(correct) / Uttra
Rare : Ariya
Polish : Palinga (Smooth and Shining)
Hysteria : Pasalai (The sounds may not match exact, but the meaning are the same, refers to female hysteria)
Horse : Kuthirai/Pari
Taboo: Tappu / Thavaru (Meaning “Wrong” in Tamil)
Commander:KOmaan, The king, In Tamil “KO” sound means Control from a distant place.
Want: VEndu
Copra: Kopparai – means Coconut shell. (Ko, sound means “Gain as one”, in shape to accept something like a coconut half shell , here it refers to the shape that take things as one.)
Hard: Kari , Kadi (Kadi means difficult to move in Tamil) “Kari” means Sronger in Tamil.
Beauty: Pain(பைந் ) (in Tamil it often refers to something that is colorful).
Full : Mulu
Coir – Kayiru – Ropes.
Curry – Kari – Sause
Mango – Maangai
Join: Serntha
Crime: Kutram
Aim: Eei (In Tamil Eei means to shoot, To Take from distance)
Arm/Hand: Karam, Kai. (Ka+ra=Gains + Gives)
Leg: Kaal (Just inverse it) in Tamil “Kaa” means support.( in German, “Keule” is Leg)
Star: Chudar (meaning Shinning, Bright) – சுடர் , the sanskrit word NakSatra should also be from this origin.
Dad: Thanthai : (May sound odd, but many languages including European has Tata, Tadah etc… for father., in Tamil “Than+thai” means “Keeping within his possession”)
Parents: Petravar
Practice : Palaku/Palakkam
Brothel /Prostitute : Parathai (meaning Prostitute) “Para” means Spread and not restricted.
Aunt : Atthai
Antham : End (Antham means End, or near to the destination)
Flee/Fleece/Fly : Peeli (Feather Dress, Peacock feather used as dress or decoration)
4. Very much in synch to this thread, people talk about spread of Indian/South Indian people to far off continents like South America.In world history a significant breakthrough has been done by Mr.Maxmuller who identified ‘Indo – Europiean Group of languages’ in 19th century.
His strong belief is man movement in history can be identified through language analysis.
He has done, found out certain truth but ended with wrong conclusion. The thing is he has not analysed tamil / other Dravidian group / North Indian tribal languages.
Importantly north Indian tribal languages are nothing but tamil.
Whenever Indian history studies made Sanskrit is made forefront as if it exposes all Indian hereditary which is a wrong theory. It is 1800 years old unspoken language created only for Hothas / knowledge preservation purposes.
In this case we have to analyse which culture / language influenced this Sanskrit. That will bring you great light to the history.
Thevanayap pavanar started his career as English teacher went on reading English formation and at last he found tamil was the origin for all the languages in the world. He started the roots formation guided by Maxmuller / Galduwell.
My approach is based on that. Many books influenced this. I had an opportunity in my school days to study about various history books. If you want the listing it won’t complete the purpose.
All other Indian languages are phonetically transformed structure / dialects of tamil is real truth.
Knan paranchu / parayu (Malayalam) Na cheppinadu (telugu) which are Shrinkage of Naan parainthathu / Naan cheppiyathu.
Doorvaja Banthgae (Hindi) ‘Theruvasal poththunga’ (tamil)- ‘Kathava Moodunga’ (another dialect)
Doorvaja Kolagae (Hindi) ‘Theruvasal Thoranga’ (tamil) ‘ Kathava Thiranga’ (another dialect)
Yahang Aav (Hindi) ‘Engae Vaa’ (tamil)
Kithap patna(Hindi) 'Puththakam padi'
My purpose is to intiate this vision to masses. People will find out lot of things / truths behind it (including the language pandits.)
With all these information, there is definitely ground to believe and further explore the possibility of Tamil being a possible PIE/Proto-Asian language.In my book "Vastava Ramayan" I have shown the presence of culture in India as far back as 72000 years B.C. This recent news points to that ancient period. I am sure after some time Arecheaology may get evi- dence to show the presence of culture in India 72000 BC.
In Vastava Ramayan I have shown that Bali, the demon king went to south America during 17000 BC when the vernal equinox was at Moola Nakshatra. MLBD News letter Oct. 1988 gives a news thus :-"Dravidians in America" - According to a press report the Brazillian nuclear phy- sicist and researcher Arysio Nunes dos santos holds that the Dravi- dians of South India reached America much before Christopher Columbus.
Mr. Nunes dos Santos, of the' Federal University of Minas Gerais maintains that the Dravidians colonised a vast South American region 11000 years before the Europians reached the new world. Vestiges of the Dravidian presence in America, he says, include the strange phonetics of Gourani, Paraguay's national language. Moreover Bananas, Pine Apple, Cocunut and Cotton, all grown in India could have been taken to America by those navigators.
The thing is Indo-European proponents have carefully ensured that on the Indian side, besides a little talk of Sanskrit having a little Dravidian-"substratum", there is no real anchor for Sanskrit. This allows the AIT-guys to pull Sanskrit into Central Asian Urheimat narrative.RajeshA wrote:The Europeans have tied one end of the rope around their torsos and the other end around ours through the linguistic similarities between European and Indic languages. Moreover both Europeans and Indics stand on small boats, with deep waters portending cultural destruction between us.
Knowing this over 200 years the Europeans having been pulling at the rope, making it tighter around themselves, and so on. With time we Indics have been losing our balance, with the danger of kipping over the edge.
It is time to pull back! The rope cannot be cut anymore. All we can do is pull harder. For that we need a lot of Indian "Out-of-India" scholars.
Definitely. The PIE band have built up a fake model based on a biased 18th century premise. But frankly I am beginning to detest the name PIE as much as Indo-Aryan.Kanson wrote:
With all these information, there is definitely ground to believe and further explore the possibility of Tamil being a possible PIE/Proto-Asian language.
http://arutkural.tripod.com/tolcampus/jap-tamil.htmTable 1. Word Correspondence (Jap. F: Tam. p., pp)
J. Far-u (to swell, expand)
T. Par-u (to swell {DEDR 3972])
J. Far-ara (to be broken off)
T. par-i (to be sundered [DEDR 3962])
J. Far-uka (to be far off)
T. par-a (to be far, wide [DEDR 3949])