Ramana ji, somebody has already done a contextual translation of SIVC script. To me it sounded very convincing. That translation effort was however rejected by the people you & I want to fight against. The reasoning for the rejection was that the translation carried too many assumptions (as if!) and not being the ‘consensus’ (yeh I am holding my breath!). The Mittanis dated to 1500 BC are already a big challenge to the squatters and robbers of Vedic culture. But it is ignored as a ‘tolerance zone’ by ‘consensus builders’. That is why I strongly wonder how, more of the same kind is going to be any different.
Ramana ji, you are amongst the few people placed in a position of influencing the direction of debate and even inviting new people who can influence a proper debate. Hence I request you to kindly be with me as I address Shiv ji and venug ji.
Shiv ji & venug ji,
To my mind what needs to be proved by OIT are a bunch of things:
1) There is no substantial genetic movement from west to east (genetic did that but this is sought to be undermined)
2) There is a continuity between the Ancient and Contemporary within India. Ramana ji’s idea regarding Pasupati Seal falls here (Ramana ji – “All I am saying is use the names of Shiva to see if they can be used to fit the seals.”). The name ‘Pasupati’ itself shows what it is. How much stronger can it be linked to God Shiva. I mean a picture is way more relevant than a lot of words. Also one gent has posted the Yamalarjuna Krishna Tablet. Vedas have and have almost always been one of the biggest thing in our identity. A skeleton of a man buried in a Padmaasna identified as that of a Leprosy patient has already been found (see note 2 below). The Sindoor that every women carries on her head is also there on the head of the ‘dancing girl from Mohan-jo-daro’. And her famed full arm bangles, the less said the better. And many many more such instances are more than enough to establish continuity.
3) There is no substantial movement of ideas from west to east. This is where RV comes in as it is the oldest known record of any real value. A civilization that throws up thought like Nasadiya Sukta & Purusha Sukta, will leave traceable evidence of development in concomitant mathematics and science and culture. If not concomitant then at least succeeding. This is where the battle lines are drawn at present. And so far as I can see the evidence will have to be presented by RV itself, related literature and some entirely new methodologies (reverse calculations of astrological observations). Till at least we can find something else like some evidence of origin of ‘sunyavaad’ and usage of ‘zero’ and ‘decimals’. A very fruitful exercise for us Indians and one that I believe will require less of data and more of understanding.
You see ‘they’ have already begun denying at places most Indians like myself have not even reached yet and negotiating at places where ‘they’ have been challenged (see note 1). To my view we need to study the history of mathematics and scientific philosophy and usage of geometry, not just poetry. This is where people capable of providing at least circumstantial evidence (in the absence of direct evidence) will come in. This cannot be done by a humanities heavy education structure of which we already have more than enough. For this we will need a maths and science heavy education structure. The culture that we have grown into, that of special respect for ‘Engineers and Doctors’ is our real strength as it comes out of our real need to do ‘useful mathematics’ eg. ‘algebra’ instead of doing ‘mathematics for proofs’ and for being useful for ‘our people’ who are need of ‘healing’. This is after all the ‘real civilization’. Humanities is a fit scholarship for those who have a use for it. Mind you Humans are not dictated by Humanities. It is Humanities that wants to study Humans, that too only the human left after his science and vocation.
Shiv ji, you want “a lot of ….plain slogging and building databases and making comparisons, referencing existing work”, then all you need is a few Million USD, 5-6 assistants and 10-12 typists in the hands of mavericks like Brihaspati ji. People like him will demolish 3 centuries worth of Uro-Scholarship in about half an year. And even millions would be insufficient on people who have decided to ignore the obvious.
Humanities student are not exactly known for accepting cross fertilization. They are much too busy in important things like politics. A mathematician will instantly know why the old timers could not have reverse calculated the nightsky. How will a humanities student ever know that.
Seems like you are trying to fight the Uro-scholars using their tactics on a battlefield and time of their choosing with the added handicap of having all your Senapati (humanities departments) already compromised.
Also Shiv ji I am not asking for a reliance on ‘sparks of brilliance alone’. I am asking for a reliance on the general populace which will in time produce so many sparks that they will begin to re-establish Agni in the Havan Kund of our civilization. I am asking you to rely on the Taxila model of education. Where a large number of private institutions build up the education system. The government model will only sap the educated minds of all energy by simply making them rely on monthly salaries and yearly increments.
Note (1) –
While most of us are concentrating on point 2 look what ‘they’ are doing:
(a) Their negotiation –
http://bakerjd99.wordpress.com/2010/08/ ... nk-part-1/ and
http://ontogenyphylogenyepigenetcs.word ... niversity/
(b) Their denial –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahae#Possible_confusion
Note (2) –
To my mind the following, when combined with the Mulabandanaasna Pasupati seal, shows both the historic continuity. Ritual usage of Cow dung and fitness regimen comprising Yoga and its concomitant philosophy were there at least within Harappan times if not prior to it. And it also shows temporal continuity in that yoga went across cultural boundaries with clear possibility of going into other unnamed cultures to the south. To my mind the division of India into several cultures is merely a sleight of hand. The evidence points to a smooth amorphous culture. Part of the reason why our people cling on to their respective ‘cultures’ is because we are all just too much like each other.
Credit -
http://varnam.nationalinterest.in/2009/ ... pers-tale/
This skeleton, of a man who probably was 35+/-10 years and 5’10″, was found in a settlement which flourished from 3700 – 1820 BCE; the people there had pottery and copper and cultivated barley as well as wheat. He was buried between 2500 – 2000 BCE — much before the decline of the Harappan civilization — and was a leper. In fact, this skeleton is the oldest example of leprosy in the world.
But he was not Harappan: he belonged to the Ahar-Banas culture. In the Mewar region of Rajasthan, hunter-gatherers developed farming communities in the middle of the fifth millennium BCE, independent of the Harappan culture. By around 2500 BCE, they became prosperous and had fortified settlements, roads, and lanes. Also, the earliest burned brick (4000 BCE) was found in Gilund at this site[2].
By 2500 BCE, Ahars had trade relations with the Harappans to the north. They also had trade relations with their contemporaries in South and Central India and the skeleton confirms it. This skeleton was buried with vitrified ash from cow dung. So far the Southern Neolithic ash mounds found in South Deccan and North Dharwar were believed to be cattle settlements or the result of cow dung disposal. Now we can speculate that they were the result of funeral activities of a shared tradition.
I saw the funniest thing in that 1910 race book in my possession. I was just checking to see if anything has changed with regard to the "Aryan Invasion" in 100 years. You see, when all those tribes from Central Asia invaded India the were going south and east. So the Deccan was to their right side. That is why the name "Deccan" came - it was to the right side you see - "dakshin" - right side. Just goes to show the tradition of "scholarship" that current day "scholars" have inherited over the last century in the name of "science"
] but it has helped me understand language processes a lot. I am working with linguists, especially anthropologists of "language" - but my expertise here is more on the strategies and tactics adopted in communication, looked at from the mathematical modelling viewpoint. I have very close connections with German, Greek, Spanish and Hungarian "linguists". From that interaction that has developed over the last two years, my conclusions so far is 