Shooting in Wisconsin Sikh Gurudwara

[sanjaykumar]

Nearly 30 years later, I am still here, sardarji. And Nov 1984 still goes unaccounted for by civilized India.


Indeed and here am I. A fellow of those Panjabi Hindus singled out of buses, trains, chowks and served peace and love, with the killers feted and hailed as Sikh heroes. A relative of those women who were uprooted from their lives and hidden for years lest they find themselves in the holy precincts of Harminder Sahib to be used as sex slaves. And to this date not an acknowledgement let alone an apology in civilised Panjab.

Let us not become stupid in our sentimentality.

[member_23367]

My humble suggestion to fellow Hindus pontificating about Sikhs and their deficiencies: please try and hold your tongue at least for this moment. Reserve your boiling indignation for dharma's common enemies.

+1

I am always of the opinion that Sikhism is a Native religion to India like Jainism and Buddhism.We should really divert our attention at the imported one's instead.

[SBajwa]

Gurdwara president is Chitratan Singh who was born in Chennai and can speak read/write Tamil fluently!

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2012/08/ ... nroeville/

MONROEVILLE (KDKA) — Many communities across the nation marked Saturday as a day of prayer for the Sikh faith following last weekend’s deadly shooting at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin.

Followers of the faith in the Pittsburgh area gathered at the Pittsburgh Sikh Gurdwara in Monroeville for an evening vigil in remembrance of the victims.

About 200 people attended the service, a peaceful night of prayer to counter what they believe was a force of hate.

Organizers say they have received an outpouring of support following the shooting, and invited followers of all religions to promote awareness and tolerance.

“We don’t praise these things, we hate hate crime,” said Satpal Singh, a temple committee member. “It’s not good for any human being or in any religion or any community.”

Inside, they shared their beliefs of honesty and equality.

Since the shooting, many of the temple members have been working closely with Monroeville Police and U.S. Attorney David Hickton to ensure their security.

“I believe that an attack on our civil rights or a hate crime is an attack against each and every one of us and also an attack on our nation,” said Hickton who attended the service.

The Sikh Temple in suburban Milwaukee was the target of alleged gunman Wade Michael Page. Six people were killed, sending shockwaves throughout other temples across the United States.

“We don’t know what was the motive of this, for that person to go that aggressive against a particular community and especially at a place of worship; so, what we are trying to do is create an awareness about Sikh people,” said Harpreet Singh, a member of the Pittsburgh Sikh Gurdwara.

[Jaspreet]

A relative of those women who were uprooted from their lives and hidden for years lest they find themselves in the holy precincts of Harminder Sahib to be used as sex slaves.

I did not know such things happened.

I am deeply sorry for your relative.

Please tell us what you would you like done by an ordinary person to lessen your hurt, if indeed anything can be done at all.

[darshhan]

Nearly 30 years later, I am still here, sardarji. And Nov 1984 still goes unaccounted for by civilized India.


Indeed and here am I. A fellow of those Panjabi Hindus singled out of buses, trains, chowks and served peace and love, with the killers feted and hailed as Sikh heroes. A relative of those women who were uprooted from their lives and hidden for years lest they find themselves in the holy precincts of Harminder Sahib to be used as sex slaves. And to this date not an acknowledgement let alone an apology in civilised Panjab.

Let us not become stupid in our sentimentality.

Sanjay ji, you have a point. The suffering of Punjab Hindus in 1980's was real and sadly hasn't got attention.Tens of thousand of hindu families were uprooted.Many were killed.

But this thread is about the Sikh victims of a hate crime and not those " Sikh Heroes " who were responsible for hunting hindus in 1980's Punjab.

May be we can discuss this in some other thread.

[paramu]

Brihaspati, long time no hear from you. Good to see your comments. There isn't anything magical about Jew-Sikh closeness. Both wear beards, and robes wtih resemble each other. Both have a strict unbending religion. Both have a long history of state suppression and violence directed at them. Both of them are not minorities, but minorities of minorities (miniscule minority). Both of them are very proud and eager to preserve themselves. Both think of themselves as high achievement religions (Jews are far more, but Sikhs (at least till recently) were too). Such efforts to find commonalities are natural.

Why do I see this sense of persecution among the Sikhs? I would not expect this from a person who believes that Sikhs are brethren of Hindus.

[Jaspreet]

Why do I see this sense of persecution among the Sikhs?

All religions have this sense of persecution. Sikhism is no exception. Name a religion that doesn't have it.

[paramu]

Sense of persecution is for semitic religions. In the case of Sikhism, some political group targeted it to take advantage. But people realize the folly and have been doing everything to correct it. Do Sikhs still need to carry the victimhood mindset? Anyway, this is my last post on this issue in this thread.

[Rahul M]

once again, this thread is NOT for discussion on sikhism. there's an 'understanding punjab' thread IIRC, please use it.

any replies to the above posts would be automatically deleted.

[surinder]

Brihaspati, long time no hear from you. Good to see your comments. There isn't anything magical about Jew-Sikh closeness. Both wear beards, and robes wtih resemble each other. Both have a strict unbending religion. Both have a long history of state suppression and violence directed at them. Both of them are not minorities, but minorities of minorities (miniscule minority). Both of them are very proud and eager to preserve themselves. Both think of themselves as high achievement religions (Jews are far more, but Sikhs (at least till recently) were too). Such efforts to find commonalities are natural.

Why do I see this sense of persecution among the Sikhs? I would not expect this from a person who believes that Sikhs are brethren of Hindus.

paramu, please post in an appropriate thread, or start a new one on "Sikh-Hindu Relations" and I will respond. I don't want Rahul M and JEM to massacre my posts

Sanjay Kumar, same to you. Please post on a thread which handles Sikh-Hindu relationship and i will indulge in polemical debates there.

[sanjaykumar]

There really is nothing more to add.

[chaanakya]

Is there any answer yet to why the shooter choose that specific town and gurudwara? or was it a random hate/racial crime?

[Prem]

Is there any answer yet to why the shooter choose that specific town and gurudwara? or was it a random hate/racial crime?

Thousands expected at visitation for Sikh temple shooting victims

Singh Badal, chief minister of the State of Punjab in India, who is visiting Milwaukee for a wedding, will attend the visitation for victims of Sunday’s shooting at the Sikh Temple of WisconsinParkash Singh Badal, the chief minister of Punjab, a state in northwest India, said his government has offered to handle the arrangements to take the bodies back to India.Months ago, Badal said he began making arrangements to visit the Milwaukee area this weekend to attend Saturday's wedding of the daughter of Mequon businessman Darshan Dhaliwal."I came here for a wedding; I never expected such a thing," Badal said during an interview Wednesday with the Journal Sentinel.When the shootings occurred, Badal said he was in Delhi. He arrived in the Milwaukee area late Tuesday and visited Froedtert Hospital, where three of those wounded in the attack are in critical condition. He also met with other victim families."I went to share their grief," he said.Darshan Dhaliwal said he and others in the Sikh community have been overwhelmed by the outpouring of support from people in Milwaukee since Sunday's attack."Everyone wants to come and share this grief," he said of the visitation.Families of the victims, he said, are holding up as best they can. Wednesday there was a ritual bathing of the bodies of the dead.

[Prem]

Darshan Dhaliwal have been big boy since late eighties and very much involved in politics .Lately he had not been able to finance the politcians and having financial trouble because of slow down in Bizness . I think , his daughter's wedding ceremony was suppose to be at this Gurdwara . The terrorist missed it by one week otherwise it would have been terrible loss.Many leeders from Punjab was suppose to attend the wedding.

[CRamS]

My comment. While people like BobbyP, SanjaKumar etc do raise legitimate points about NRI Sikhs (which I have observed at close quarters), I must say this is not the thread nor the time to express those sentiments. I look forward to the posts on the Sikh-Hindu relationship thread.

[Manu]

May Waheguru give peace to the untimely departed:

Satwant Singh Kaleka, 65,
Paramjit Kaur, 41,
Sita Singh, 41,
Ranjit Singh, 49,
Prakash Singh, 39,
Suveg Singh, 84

And the Brave Police officer who died trying to save them.

[SBajwa]

Parmjit Kaur was actually bowing before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji when she was shot in the back.

[Rudradev]

Shooting an unarmed middle-aged lady in the back... what a great example of White supremacy.

Bajwa ji, do you have access to any more eyewitness accounts of how the attack unfolded? Where the shooter entered, where he went, what were his actions room to room, how the worshipers reacted? I think such a reconstruction of the event would actually be useful information for this thread, in determining how we can ensure the security of our Gurudwaras and Mandirs in future, and respond effectively to an attack like this if need be.

[svinayak]

Shooting an unarmed middle-aged lady in the back... what a great example of White supremacy.

Bajwa ji, do you have access to any more eyewitness accounts of how the attack unfolded? Where the shooter entered, where he went, what were his actions room to room, how the worshipers reacted? I think such a reconstruction of the event would actually be useful information for this thread, in determining how we can ensure the security of our Gurudwaras and Mandirs in future, and respond effectively to an attack like this if need be.

If this is considered intimidation by the white supramacists then there is something wrong.
Killing Indian women and children is not going to intimidate Indians.
Indians have been going through this for centuries and this not going to change things.

[SBajwa]

1. Two children playing outside the Gurdwara (11 year and 9 years old) at 10:00 AM thought there
were fire crackers when they witness a gunman reload and shoot at two sikhs outside in the parking lot when these Sikhs tried to get into their cars. He had one 9mm pistol with at least three clips. A typical 9mm pistol has a maximum capacity of 17+1 rounds.

2. The children ran inside the Gurdwara into Kitchen (langar hall) to warn people who
were preparing food for the birthday celebration. Dozen women and children hid themselves
in the store room inside kitchen.

3. The shooter walked into the main Gurdwara hall and shoots down Parmjit Kaur (41 years old)
as she was paying her respects to the Sri Guru Granth sahib. He also shoots the Granthi who was going to sing the Gurbani.

4. The Gurdwara president Satwant Singh Kaleka (62 years old) who was sitting got up and charged towards the shooter with his 6" symbolic kirpan stabbing the shooter, he took 6-7 bullets
on his body.

5. He then walked towards Bathroom and killed another person.

6. police arrived and he took cover outside the building and started shooting at police.

[SBajwa]

Indian Ranjeet Singh, who was killed in the shooting attack at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin, is shown. One of the victims of a shooting attack at a Sikh temple in the United States, never came home to India even once in 16 years, working at a grocery store during the week and volunteering at the Sikh gurdwara on weekends. He promised his family in India he was doing what had to be done to get a green card so they could come join him in the United States.

Ranjeet Singh Brother Sita Singh had joined him few weeks ago and he was also killed by the Shooter Michael Page.

84 Years old Suveg Singh Khattra was also killed by Page.

check the pictures here

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/rememberin ... -temple-sh

[anupmisra]

The Gurdwara president Satwant Singh Kaleka (62 years old) who was sitting got up and charged towards the
shooter with his 6" symbolic kirpan stabbing the shooter, he took 6-7 bullets on his body.

Thats the hallmark of a true Sikh.

[ShauryaT]

Namaste. It is a pleasure to invite you to Central and Northern NJ chapter's monthly Satsang-meeting. This time we have a very special guest who will address the gathering. Ma. Ashok Singhalji, former President of VHP, International does not need any introduction. He is the lion who has spent his whole life to bring assertiveness to Hindu psyche and who has stood like a rock when time has come to fight for Hindu rights and dignities. Whether it is Rama Janmabhoomi or Ramsetu, H.H. Shankaracharya's arrest or terror of Bangladeshi Muslim infiltrators in Assam, Islamic terrorism or anti-Hindu, Prevention of Communal and Targeted Violence Bill, it is Ashokji who has been in the vanguard of the fight. He has been rightly crowned as Hindu Hridaya Samrat. Even at the ripe old age of 86 years, he travels constantly to raise Hindu Awareness. He will be attending part of the meeting and address the gathering. He will appraise the gathering of current challenges to Hindus in Bharat, its import and efforts of VHP and other Hindu organizations to meet the challenges. There will be time for questions and answers.

We will be paying homage to the victims of Oak Creek, WI Gurudwara shooting. There will be a briefing on the 7th Hindu Mandir Executives' Conference that would have concluded in San Jose. (We have invited local Sikh leaders for a discussion on security of religious places.)

We encourage you not to miss this golden and rare opportunity. You will also have a chance to learn firsthand, activities of New Jersey chapter.

Details:
Sunday, August 26, 2012
Meeting time: 5:00 PM to 7:00 PM
Assembly time: By 4:45 PM

Hosts: Smt. Pappu and Vimal Sodhani
Address: 3 Masar Rd., Boonton, NJ 07005

Dinner will be served after the meeting. You are welcome to stay for it and leave after dinner.

RSVP is absolute must because of security concerns. RSVP to Sodhaniji at 973-476-3901, 9730334-5917, <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> only. Please RSVP no later than August 22, 2012.

[Anantha]

Indian Ranjeet Singh, who was killed in the shooting attack at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin, is shown. One of the victims of a shooting attack at a Sikh temple in the United States, never came home to India even once in 16 years, working at a grocery store during the week and volunteering at the Sikh gurdwara on weekends. He promised his family in India he was doing what had to be done to get a green card so they could come join him in the United States.

Ranjeet Singh Brother Sita Singh had joined him few weeks ago and he was also killed by the Shooter Michael Page.

84 Years old Suveg Singh Khattra was also killed by Page.

check the pictures here

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/rememberin ... -temple-sh

Bajwaji,
There was a two page story on the martyred purple turbaned guy in NY Times last week. This is the guy who has 3 daughters and married two of them off and had never been to India even once in the last 16 years and sent $100 home every month. His day (and only job) was to play tabla during kirtans at different Gurudwaras in the US. Stunning!!

[Anantha]

May Waheguru give peace to the untimely departed:

Satwant Singh Kaleka, 65,
Paramjit Kaur, 41,
Sita Singh, 41,
Ranjit Singh, 49,
Prakash Singh, 39,
Suveg Singh, 84

And the Brave Police officer who died trying to save them.

The brave police officer Brian Murphy is still alive but in critical condition. He suffered nine gun shot wounds. Let us pray that he survives and hopefully awarded a medal of honor for his powerful act.

[hnair]

An American Tragedy

While both Presidential candidates at least made public comments, neither visited, nor did they suspend campaigning in the state even for one day, as they did in Colorado. In fact, both candidates were in the vicinity this weekend and failed to appear. Obama hugged his children a little tighter after Aurora, but his remarks after Oak Creek referred to Sikhs as members of the “broader American family,” like some distant relatives. Romney unsurprisingly gaffed, referring on Tuesday to “the people who lost their lives at that sheik temple.” Because the shooting happened in Paul Ryan’s district, the Romney campaign delayed announcement of its Vice-Presidential choice until after Ryan could attend the funerals for the victims, but he did not speak at the service and has said surprisingly little about the incident.

Imagine if this was the place of worship of the other "peaceful minority" who is also very influential, intelligent and very rich in America as the Indians are. The entire Vella-veettil Pillai, Capitol and media would be grieving on-site like crazy.

Certainly says a lot about "Indian-American" and their place in the khan-verse.

Shiv-saar, IIRC, I had given an assessment on Khanland's police-state devices. Here are a few datapoints:

1) Aurora shooter did not shoot a cop or resist arrest, he lives. Oak Creek shooter shot a cop and was taken out.

2) Those asking for a re-interpretation of Panj Kakar in Khanland is naive. If the kirpan is replaced by a modern fire-arm, it overnight converts the Sikhs into an armed militia. Even if the justification is "self-defense under 2nd Amendment", it will fall flat due to various reasons. Arguments go like this "We did not allow a militia for Slaves or Native Americans, who have bigger grievances. What makes y'all special that one crazy gunman (who was put down instantly) deserves a militia? Just call 911 before you die, like any certified-good minority".

AG-bahadur is telling the mourners that aspect more or less in a soft way:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79551.html

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder applauded the Sikh community, saying they responded without violence despite witnessing the worst of humankind.

3) If there is a shootout by Sardars on one-side and KKK-types on the other side in future and there are heavy casualties on the KKK side. that is going to be problematic to Sardars (and other Indians). Koreans in LA got away easy, because they were shooting, um, "African-American Looters" (India calls them rioters, but in Khanland, anything without revenue implications is not worth mentioning ). That is perfectly ok and the Koreans became herrows. But not if they shot a KKK dude.

So if Sardars manage to bag a few, other communities will get, um, ideas. A big no-no

4) Hassidim, despite their "never again" motto after holocaust and their much-admired Apache-ungals in West Bank, has also learned to fall in line in Khanland. In exchange for smooth running of the channels of trade, they decided to pucker up, lock up their weapons and instead, manage "reality distortion" fields to deal with these situations. They are quite successful in getting things done using the current security framework, because of the painstaking work they did in "reality distortion" investments.

There is a big lesson for Indians (including some silly Sardars who got gonorrhea after indulging in frottage with the pakis) to learn from the Hassidim janta.

[surinder]

Indian Ranjeet Singh, who was killed in the shooting attack at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin, is shown. One of the victims of a shooting attack at a Sikh temple in the United States, never came home to India even once in 16 years, working at a grocery store during the week and volunteering at the Sikh gurdwara on weekends. He promised his family in India he was doing what had to be done to get a green card so they could come join him in the United States.

Ranjeet Singh Brother Sita Singh had joined him few weeks ago and he was also killed by the Shooter Michael Page.

84 Years old Suveg Singh Khattra was also killed by Page.

check the pictures here

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/rememberin ... -temple-sh

Bajwaji,
There was a two page story on the martyred purple turbaned guy in NY Times last week. This is the guy who has 3 daughters and married two of them off and had never been to India even once in the last 16 years and sent $100 home every month. His day (and only job) was to play tabla during kirtans at different Gurudwaras in the US. Stunning!!

I was in Punjab recently. The Gurdwara that I went to near our house had the Granthi who knew this tabla player. I heard the same story from our Granthi, about his daughters and their marriages and his not going to India. Sad.

[Anantha]

As media spotlight winds down on this and before the thread is closed, I would like to add my prayers for the departed souls, from my favorite kirtan from Gurbani (usually sung in two different tunes, in Ragas kalawati or Bhimpalasi)

maalin bhoolee jag bhulaanaa
ham bhulaanay naahi paati

kaho kabeer ham Raam Rakhay
Kirpaa kar har raa-ay

Paati Torai maalini

[habal]

I had hoped somebody would ask this question, how did the lone gunman arrive at the temple. Did he walk on foot from his home ? Or did he come by car ? If so, where is the car ?

[ramana]

Surinder and Darshann, Can you both take the lead and scour the news reports and build up a timeline of who, what and how happened in the shooting say in three weeks?

Something is odd here and we need to keep focus. Could be useful for future protection of our communities.

[Prem]

Surinder and Darshann, Can you both take the lead and scour the news reports and build up a timeline of who, what and how happened in the shooting say in three weeks?omething is odd here and we need to keep focus. Could be useful for future protection of our communities.

MY CT.
I think shooting came 1 week earlier . Had it been week latter Gunman would have wiped out many of the Akali leaders coming to attend the wedding. Terrorist might had confused the Birth day celebrations with wedding festivities. A Nyc gropu filling law suit against Badal at this sad juncture can be part of the same planned sequence.
Kashmir is quiet but now With NE steaming and Punjab going leaderless would provide perfect opportunity to Evildoer paki and Paki ke Chaar yaar.

[paramu]

A Nyc gropu filling law suit against Badal at this sad juncture can be part of the same planned sequence.

Could you please provide the link to this news?

[Prem]

A Nyc gropu filling law suit against Badal at this sad juncture can be part of the same planned sequence.

Could you please provide the link to this news?

https://www.google.com/search?q=BAdal+s ... 1I7GPEA_en

Sikh radicals in US slam Badal with court cummons
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Punjab/Ch ... 11106.aspx

The America based 'pro-Khalistan' activists have attempted to target the visiting Punjab chief minister Parkash Singh Badal through a federal civil lawsuit by holding him "guilty" of the torture of Sikhs and "defending notorious" police officers "before the courts." It was just hoursbefore Badal was scheduled to reach America and meet the families of six victims of shooting incident in Oak Creek Gurdwara in Wisconsin that a district court of Eastern district of Wisconsin issued summons on August 8 to the former on a petition filed by the New York-based human rights group 'Sikhs for Justice.'In their petition the petitioners have identified themselves as "supporters of separate Sikh State of Khalistan" and activists of SAD Mann group-a political party "demanding creation of separate state of Khalistan

[RamaY]

^ Does it mean there are two groups of Sikhs, one the Khalistanis who are hand-in-hand with Pakis and unkils and second the Bharatiya Sikhs?

[paramu]

Basically the Khalistanis have no sensitivities for the victims who were dead by the shooting at Gurudwara.

[RamaY]

Then how can they represent all Sikhs and demand a separate state for Sikhs? Looks like Khalistanis are naya-Pakis. Is it possible they were closet RoPs?

[ramana]

jhujar, there is your view and there is my view. In between there are facts.

So lets collect the facts.
This one appears random, crazed shooting but there is something not right.

So far no Christian whether crazy/racist/Nazi or not has attacked a place of worship

So why this happened?

[Prem]

Was the terrorist hired Gun who did not expect to get in shooting match with police officer ? If so, there got to be the money trail or shades of Gillani .

[lakshmikanth]

jhujar, there is your view and there is my view. In between there are facts.

So lets collect the facts.
This one appears random, crazed shooting but there is something not right.

So far no Christian whether crazy/racist/Nazi or not has attacked a place of worship

So why this happened?

Ramaana saar,

Here are the facts (off the top of my head, i maybe wrong in some so feel free to correct).
1) The terrorist did not secure the perimeter before he started shooting.
2) He came to the place with handguns (not an assault rifles)
3) The manner of shooting seems random and unplanned.
4) The terrorist moved to the neighborhood very very recently (hardly a month ago).
5) The terrorist broke up with his white supremacist GF right before moving to Wisc.
6) The white supremacist GF (Misty Cook) worked at a restaurant two blocks away from the Gurudwara at the time of the shooting.

My theory:
1) Guy was depressed, with suicidal tendencies.
2) He moved up to where his GF worked (probably to stalk or something).
3) Saw the Gurudwara, and hatched a plan for suicide.
4) My conjecture out of my musharraf: He may have had thoughts like follows :- "I will take as many of those raghead camel jokey motherfV(k...s down before I go and secure my place in Walhalla and fame on the future white earth".
5) Did not get much time to plan (or did not care to plan).
6) Went in, shot up a few folks, got stabbed by elder Sardar.
7) Cops start engaging, he engages them back and finally commits suicide.

[member_23629]

Another Sikh shot dead in Wisconsin