Open Letter to Indian Political Leaders about Pakistan

[RamaY]

^ you see Mr. PratikDas,

To answer your question, you need to jump into secular time machine and land in say 2072 AD. Now look backward to understand the STNRakshak Forum's informed poster for his comments on Jan 22, 2072.

"The UPA2 political dispensation was victim of the its times, geopolitical challenges and internal poverty and social backwardness. On top of it, that is the best they could do based on prevailing conditions, information they have and choices they have. Please note that they do not have the luxury of hindsight.

How many times we want to partition? I wish MMS did not let Bangalore, Kerala fall into the hands of Islamists so the Christians of NorthTN could be saved from persecution.

We have left Hinduism in the hope of getting rid of poverty, untouchability and religious fanaticism. But alas we couldnt get rid of this casteism, otherwise we would have been same as Scotland ."

P.S: before people go gung ho that I am predicting defeat of Hinduism and I myself do not believe in Hindu strengths, this is a semi-fictional account so the much reformed can make a note about their mother religion.

[PratikDas]

RamaY ji, a long time ago - so long ago that I can't find a reference to it online, I'd come across an article stating a significant majority of Soviet Union ministers were either bugged by the CIA or spying directly for the CIA, and that this helped trigger the collapse of the Soviet Union. Of course, I don't know if this is untrue and purely a post-Cold War propaganda by the victor. Nevertheless, I was reminded of it because of your post. Unkil might have decided that allowing India to gain strength and then Balkanising it later might be far costlier than subverting India's rise in the first place by Balkanising it sooner. Our politicians might be on someone else's payroll too.

[RajeshA]

There is either a Stockholm syndrome at work here or some form of blackmail for otherwise it is difficult to explain UPA-2 leadership's indulgence of Pakistan and USA.

[shiv]

People like Shinde need to be taught a lesson, but the party needs to be punished for that.

It is very clear that psychologically the Congress is playing a Muslim card, but that card actually screws Indian Muslims more than they might think. What Congress does is to pretend to be "extra-pro-Muslim" by criticizing Hindu parties as sponsors of Hindu terrorism. The obvious effect desired is to get all Indian Muslim votes because Hindu parties will terrorize Muslims unless Congress is supported. This is an Indian version of the Pakistani army's "apres moi le deluge" meaning that if the Pakistan army is destabilized, Islamic extremists will take over Pakistan

In India Congress plays that role. They say " if Congress is destabilized or loses, Hindu extremists will take over." This actually puts Indian Muslims in a fix. When Congress says Hindu parties are terrorists, it allows people like Hafiz Saeed and other Pakistanis to criticize Hindus. But Indian Muslims themselves cannot do that because if they criticize Hindus there will be a reaction from Hindus. So Indian Muslims have to cock up and say nothing. In the meantime Congress is criticized by Hindus for making such statements and when there is support from Pakistan, it makes it appear that Congress, indian Muslims and Pakistanis are all on one side and Hindus are on the other side. This suits the Congress. They only need some Hindu votes - a split Hindu vote is all they need.

It is funny but look at this:
1. Congress party can say Hindus are terrorists
2. Hafiz Saeed and Pakistan can say Hindus are terrorists

But Indian Muslims cannot say that openly because Hindus will react. Hindus will not remain quiet if Indian Muslims start calling Hindus as terrorists like the Congress party. But Indian Muslims who support the Congress automatically become anti-Hindu and pro-Pakistanis in the eyes of Hindus because both Congress party and Pakistanis are anti-Hindu.

The Congress benefits from communal tensions and they are lucky that most Muslims in India are too illiterate to understand how they are being taken for a ride. One way to break the deadlock is to get Congress to alienate so many people that Hindus vote en bloc for some other party. But if that other party has to be BJP, the latter have to clean up their incompetent act a great deal. The BJPs recruitment and dependence on extremely corrupt people will be their downfall.

[partha]

I was thinking about how to counter this Pak love shown by WKKs. One way could be to come down heavily on them and brand them traitors and pro terrorists whenever they speak for Pakistan. This way slowly we could reach a stage where anything pro Pakistan comes attached with negative connotations. This is exactly what has happened in India when it comes to BJP/Hindu. Anyone who speaks positively of BJP or Hindu is promptly branded communal.

[shyamd]

People like Shinde need to be taught a lesson, but the party needs to be punished for that.

It is very clear that psychologically the Congress is playing a Muslim card, but that card actually screws Indian Muslims more than they might think. What Congress does is to pretend to be "extra-pro-Muslim" by criticizing Hindu parties as sponsors of Hindu terrorism. The obvious effect desired is to get all Indian Muslim votes because Hindu parties will terrorize Muslims unless Congress is supported. This is an Indian version of the Pakistani army's "apres moi le deluge" meaning that if the Pakistan army is destabilized, Islamic extremists will take over Pakistan

In India Congress plays that role. They say " if Congress is destabilized or loses, Hindu extremists will take over." This actually puts Indian Muslims in a fix. When Congress says Hindu parties are terrorists, it allows people like Hafiz Saeed and other Pakistanis to criticize Hindus. But Indian Muslims themselves cannot do that because if they criticize Hindus there will be a reaction from Hindus. So Indian Muslims have to cock up and say nothing. In the meantime Congress is criticized by Hindus for making such statements and when there is support from Pakistan, it makes it appear that Congress, indian Muslims and Pakistanis are all on one side and Hindus are on the other side. This suits the Congress. They only need some Hindu votes - a split Hindu vote is all they need.

It is funny but look at this:
1. Congress party can say Hindus are terrorists
2. Hafiz Saeed and Pakistan can say Hindus are terrorists

But Indian Muslims cannot say that openly because Hindus will react. Hindus will not remain quiet if Indian Muslims start calling Hindus as terrorists like the Congress party. But Indian Muslims who support the Congress automatically become anti-Hindu and pro-Pakistanis in the eyes of Hindus because both Congress party and Pakistanis are anti-Hindu.

The Congress benefits from communal tensions and they are lucky that most Muslims in India are too illiterate to understand how they are being taken for a ride. One way to break the deadlock is to get Congress to alienate so many people that Hindus vote en bloc for some other party. But if that other party has to be BJP, the latter have to clean up their incompetent act a great deal. The BJPs recruitment and dependence on extremely corrupt people will be their downfall.

Look who the INC allies are in UPA - and the element of the muslim vote that backs them?

Tell us what you find.

[Sanku]

Sorry to use specific names, but I would just love to see shyamd, ShauryaT and supporters try and justify Shinde's comments with theories of 'long term' chanakyanness reacting with 'short term' chanakyanness or some such. .

I think there comes a time when even the fence sitters need to take a stand, and that time in India is certainly now. For the record, I think one should always, and as often as possible take stands, smaller stands obviate the need to take a big stand. That said, now I dont think anyone can play the coy game of not really spelling out what their belief system is.

On my side, despite considering myself a very good friend of ShauryaT (if only virtually) -- and despite what JEM has said about his personal efforts, I condemn what ShauryaT has been saying on the siachen and some other threads in no uncertain terms.

I am very disappointed, and only hope that he has not spread this poison of defending the indefensible through his personal efforts even further.

[SSridhar]

There is either a Stockholm syndrome at work here or some form of blackmail for otherwise it is difficult to explain UPA-2 leadership's indulgence of Pakistan and USA.

Rajesh ji, nothing can be ruled out and certainly not blackmail. But, it may even be much simpler than all that. In TSP, during the golden years of TSP-US bhai-bhai, it was the simple expediency of favours to politicians and Generals that worked wonders. Visas, admissions to US universities for children, scholarships, US residency, frequent trips, jobs, multi-year assignments in think-tanks with generous perks and of course money and other pleasures. For most people, these will do. It is only at the very top that more devious means will have to be employed.

[RajeshA]

There is either a Stockholm syndrome at work here or some form of blackmail for otherwise it is difficult to explain UPA-2 leadership's indulgence of Pakistan and USA.

Rajesh ji, nothing can be ruled out and certainly not blackmail. But, it may even be much simpler than all that. In TSP, during the golden years of TSP-US bhai-bhai, it was the simple expediency of favours to politicians and Generals that worked wonders. Visas, admissions to US universities for children, scholarships, US residency, frequent trips, jobs, multi-year assignments in think-tanks with generous perks and of course money and other pleasures. For most people, these will do. It is only at the very top that more devious means will have to be employed.

Perhaps we would need to monitor with a magnifying glass, which influential people have taken such favors from the Gulf, China and the West. The WKK sometimes are sufficiently happy with some Paki hospitality to turn anti-Indian.

We should also consider that one of the biggest favors the West can do for RNIs and Politicians is to safely horde all that they loot in India. That is a very useful service, and in fact it also gives the West at the same time a lever to blackmail these people through their pliant media in India.

Personally I think, it is a uphill task to stop the loot or tax-evasion or black-money and it will take time. In the meantime I am in favor of establishing some alternate system like the Swiss banks which promises full secrecy and discretion under the control of Indians, who are not in any way obliged to West or Gulf or China. It need not be in India itself, but can be offshore if need be. Sri Lanka or Nepal would have been useful, but those regimes are too anti-Indian.

[SSridhar]

Kurshid adds fuel to the fire now.
He says that 'Hindu terrorism' is based on clear facts that both the current and the ex Home Ministers have been clear about, but other religions should not be tainted with terrorism tag.

"Let me just say this to you very clearly that our stated position, that is shared fully by the Home Minister and past Home Minister, is based entirely on facts as the investigative agencies have made available to the government, Terror does not have religion. We have said this very clearly. And religion should not be associated with colour. This we have said very clearly. It is terror that we have to fight. Terror directed against India that we are fighting" Khurshid told reporters here.

So, now the agenda is quite clear.

[kapilrdave]

And one more http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/rss-a ... ary-320827

It makes me wonder why they don't want it to cool down. Few speculation.

1. They are going to break some bad news. May be sir creek.
2. Distraction from coming diesel price hike.
3. They think muslim votes' polarization is the only chance they have left for 2014. And for that they want communal riots.
4. RSS has big plans for this year. This year is the 150th birth anniversary of Swami Vivekananda. And RSS's swayamm sevaks will be doing door to door sampark and publicize SV's ideas of sanatan dharma and India As True Spiritual And Cultural Leader of The World. May be Congress wants to torpedo their plans by calling them terrorists. Even during the rape row I read somewhere (probably on this forum) some congoon calling SV as a rapist . Shows their intentions.

In any case, this once again reveals their sick thought process. But what I'm really fearful of is that this might invite yet another 26/11. Remember the immediate reaction of MS Aiyar, Shivraj Patil and pakis about the incident? Last time we were lucky to capture Kasab alive revealing he was a paki wearing a red thread on his hand.

We were lucky that time. But even luck doesn't help idiots (us) and scoundrels (congoons) every time. God forbid.

[merlin]

But if that other party has to be BJP, the latter have to clean up their incompetent act a great deal.

I don't see this happening. Currently the BJP is letting the Congress have a free ride on anything and everything and I don't see that changing.

The BJPs recruitment and dependence on extremely corrupt people will be their downfall.

Even if they recruit only non-corrupt people, the media will make every attempt to brand them also as corrupt. With much success. You have not seen the last of the lokayukta in Gujarat yet...

[kapilrdave]

Even if they recruit only non-corrupt people, the media will make every attempt to brand them also as corrupt. With much success. You have not seen the last of the lokayukta in Gujarat yet...

Modi is a different breed. He will fight the lokayukta head on.

[member_22872]

Do we have any members/readers who are are influential, just a rhetoric question. This needs an intervention, else I am not going bonkers but something is really cooking. Its not about Cong leaders being dumb. Stage is being set since long, even the Hindu terror angle is being cooked up to appease TSP no idea for what reason, may be concessions of some kind. These are overtures to please someone, no idea what is to be gained through this, but nothing for common Indians or India's security.

[kapilrdave]

^^^^ I had this feeling ever since Kar-shit became foreign min. He is a #1 traitor.

But I still have faith in democracy. As I said, I'm more worried about pakis leveraging this dire situation.

[member_22872]

No leader with national interests at heart will issue statements which will further undermine nation say after this be-headings episode. Why is BJP silent?, if they think they are the torch bearers of national security, it is now more than any other time for them to raise a storm. It is strange submission that, even when called terrorist trainers they have tugged their tails between their legs. It is not about party, national leaders must keep nationals interests at heart irrespective of party affiliation. Nation first then comes any other affiliation.

[PratikDas]

venug ji, the BJP is not silent. The media have chosen not to give BJP many inches in print or hours of footage on TV.

HT: BJP wants Shinde sacked, Cong stands firmly by him

The strange thing is that my only reason for wanting BJP in power is that I am 100% certain that it won't take many more UPA governments to finish India, to finish what the British left unfinished. Even if the BJP is corrupt as well, I don't see them pouring acid into the spinal column like I see the UPA doing. I need the BJP in power so that the hounds can be unleashed tomorrow on those destabilising India whilst enjoying Parliamentary privilege today.

[krithivas]

Congress has learnt the great American waltz, "Pinch the baby, and rock the cradle".

Congress distances itself from Shinde remark on 'Hindu terrorism'
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 134629.cms

[RajeshA]

Interesting. What kind of Superpower is India becoming, where the Home Minister goes around calling the majority community as religious terrorists, without a single terrorist conviction of someone from the majority community, especially one who is supposed to have committed some act of terrorism citing religious sanction!

So when is the Deputy Viceroy Manmohan Singh going to make India a member of the UN Security Council? Would that make India a SoopaPauer? That starts with having a Foreign Minister and a Home Minister with at least one nationalist bone, something which the current office-holders do not seem to be having!

[RajeshA]

Congress has learnt the great American waltz, "Pinch the baby, and rock the cradle".

Congress distances itself from Shinde remark on 'Hindu terrorism'
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 134629.cms

That is not enough! He need to be sent to prison for anti-national activities. Nothing less would do! Put Shinde behind bars and bar him from having any official post.

[member_22872]

Rajesh ji, strange part is, this is the same majority that will vote back Cong to power, it had in the past.
Pratik Das ji, I am holding by breathe till UPA is done with it's term, I pray to God and will perform 1000 pradashinas if no harm comes to India while UPA is in power.

[member_22872]

Rajesh ji, All these people who propped up TSP and sucked it's nuts need to be dealt with, b.dutta, praveen swami, M Aiyer, Shinde, Khurshid and even MMS. They have undermined national security in a big way. But nothing of that sort will happen because there is not even a whimper from any quarter which can have any effect on such matters. Same $shit, different A$$hole from Cong now.

[PratikDas]

Congress has learnt the great American waltz, "Pinch the baby, and rock the cradle".

Congress distances itself from Shinde remark on 'Hindu terrorism'
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 134629.cms

That is not enough! He need to be sent to prison for anti-national activities. Nothing less would do! Put Shinde behind bars and bar him from having any official post.

That really isn't enough. Besides, isn't it rather late and disingenuous to talk of distancing after what Khurshid said [1] and what RK Singh said [2]? This is a bit like the US trying to distance itself from Hiroshima after dropping the 2nd bomb on Nagasaki.

[1] HT: Khurshid says 'saffron terror' remark based on facts; RSS seeks Shinde's apology
[2] HT: 10 people wanted in terror attack cases had RSS links: home secy

[vishvak]

Congress has learnt the great American waltz, "Pinch the baby, and rock the cradle".

Congress distances itself from Shinde remark on 'Hindu terrorism'
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 134629.cms

That is not enough! He need to be sent to prison for anti-national activities. Nothing less would do! Put Shinde behind bars and bar him from having any official post.

Him and each of those who support him ie Kurshid, Diggiraja, etc.

[member_22872]

RSS demands apology? that's it? what morons, you guys have been branded terrorists for ever, what ever you do, you will be linked with terrorism, from US to Zimbabwe will be kicking your nuts and with an apology you will suck it up and go home? nice also wear a dozen bangles on each hand.

[Prem]

There is either a Stockholm syndrome at work here or some form of blackmail for otherwise it is difficult to explain UPA-2 leadership's indulgence of Pakistan and USA.

Rajesh ji, nothing can be ruled out and certainly not blackmail. But, it may even be much simpler than all that. In TSP, during the golden years of TSP-US bhai-bhai, it was the simple expediency of favours to politicians and Generals that worked wonders. Visas, admissions to US universities for children, scholarships, US residency, frequent trips, jobs, multi-year assignments in think-tanks with generous perks and of course money and other pleasures. For most people, these will do. It is only at the very top that more devious means will have to be employed.

Churchil was right when he made the men of straw comment abiut Congressi Kaurav family . Now we wish thae even we have men of staw as they have even gone down few notches below. Indian known for IIT now suffers with IIM= Intellectually Inferior Ministers at top.

[chanakyaa]

Found a response letter from MMS

My dear BRFites,

Thanks for openly writing a letter to me and other netas. As the prime minister of this country, I felt that it was my duty to respond to you. First of all, thanks for calling me a leader. I've been waiting for Soniaji and other AICC members to give me respect and refer me as leader, but they never did. I've given up on them. Anyways, your letter was very insightful and thought provoking. After reading it, the first thing I said to myself was "Good lord, you are not a politician, else it would be extremely difficult for us (netas) to make a living, if such good hearted nationalists decide to become India's politicians". So, thanks again for STAYING an internet activist.

You have suggested in your letter that Bakistan has turned it into a failed state and we should stop fooling ourselves that it is possible to have normal relationships with this terrorist nation. I think you are right. I agree with you that the relationship with this country can't be repaired, but this should have been fixed long time ago. We have missed the opportunity to fix this country. Odds and opportunities to show force were greater before it became nooclear and before trade/economics became an central point before we start talking about wars. Longer we waited to fix the problem, worse it has become.

Reading your letter, I get that you are frustrated with the lack of political WILL in N. Delhi about Bakistan and in general other things. Not sure why this is so difficult to understand. By profession, I'm an economist. I can't fight. I never wanted to be an Prime Minister, but Soniaji was looking for an old fart like me who would be easy to control, does not have its political ambition, and would never question the orders. And by the way, Soniaji also never wanted to the kangress leader in the first place. Its the other Kangress a$$holes who lack a bone. They thought that it is the best way to keep Kangress party alive and functioning.

Bakistan, is like a slum full of criminals next to nicely thriving neighborhood. Now lets talk about using force against Bakistan. Do you really think Indian borders are well protected from preventing aloo hoo abduls from around the world to enter India and open a Jeeh@d if were to move in Bakistan? How do you suggest we prevent these people from sneaking in India? What do you suggest, the OIC directly funding open Jeeh@d against India using disgruntled resources in India who are ready to help the abduls around the world. Forget the abduls, the goras would love to see India bleed to death from this adventure.

With so many things to think about and plan, do you really believe that the politicians have the courage to get out of their Kursi? Now please, don't respond to this by saying that I should resign. Why should I resign, when people like yourself have resigned by making a choice to not taking political stage? Gandhiji and Bhagat Singh did not contribute to India's freedom by blogging or writing letters to the Queen. They had to leave their relatively comfortable lives and get down and dirty. I honestly think you would be a better prime minister, but since you have chosen to stay in your cozy private/public sector job and blog, people like me have taken political careers. If you have guts, stop blogging and show your muscles in elections. If smart, intelligent, and good hearted people like yourselves don't care about the country (outside of a part-time arm-chair warrior job), why should the netas? Think about it.

Jai Hind

[ramana]

He should have ended with "Teek Hai!"

[Pranav]

That means that a time may come, sooner or later when we have to wage war against Pakistan and bring that area under control.

A small point - it need not be called a "war against Pakistan". It could be certain overt or covert law-enforcement measures against some of the armed groups in that region, quite possibly with the active participation and support of other, more benign, armed groups.