bah! What do you know about our scientists - they are masquerading a chopped off Mig21 as LCASagarAg wrote:I think if scientists shout from roof top that reactor is indigenous some people will still look at it with disbelief.
![Razz :P](./images/smilies/tongue.gif)
bah! What do you know about our scientists - they are masquerading a chopped off Mig21 as LCASagarAg wrote:I think if scientists shout from roof top that reactor is indigenous some people will still look at it with disbelief.
Indian Defence Policy has been to maintain secrecy on ATVP since its inception and Russian assistance provided has been kept secret ,till MMS reveled during Arihants official ceremony that more than 200 Russian scientist were involved in this project , That ATV uses Russian reactor was first confirmend by Bharat Karnad book on Indian Nuclear Policy where he mentioned that 2 N Reactor were imported from Russia. Adm Prakash statement confirms it what was known for a long time.SagarAg wrote:I think if scientists shout from roof top that reactor is indigenous some people will still look at it with disbelief.
But don't you think, after the MMS revelation of Russian involvement, as both Anil Kakodkar and Srikumar Banerjee confirmed that as Indian reactor with Russian assistance, this speculation should be put to rest, unless you have new info?Austin wrote:Indian Defence Policy has been to maintain secrecy on ATVP since its inception and Russian assistance provided has been kept secret ,till MMS reveled during Arihants official ceremony that more than 200 Russian scientist were involved in this project , That ATV uses Russian reactor was first confirmend by Bharat Karnad book on Indian Nuclear Policy where he mentioned that 2 N Reactor were imported from Russia. Adm Prakash statement confirms it what was known for a long time.SagarAg wrote:I think if scientists shout from roof top that reactor is indigenous some people will still look at it with disbelief.
To validate the disbelief that Indian scientists can actually design and develop a nuclear reactor for a submarine. Zimble onlee!ramana wrote:Anyway what do you get by this polemic?
Ramana , you must be knowing the truth better than any one out hereramana wrote:Austin you are reading more than required in the Adm statement about Soviet era design. Its the design and you imply its the whole reactor.
Anyway what do you get by this polemic?
Regarding the nooke reactor now whom shall we believe the Ex Navy Chief or the Atomic Scientist who has actually worked on creating the reactor ??? I leave it on the common sense of the readers.‘It has been done by Indians and it is something which is not available for the asking, whatever money you want to pay.’
This nuclear submarine for which the reactor has been made by your team, how significant an achievement is that?
Well, we have a compact propulsion reactor which has been tested at Kalpakkam for the last three years and this is an exact prototype of what has been installed in INS Arihant which was launched soon. So it’s a major achievement of new reactor technology which incidentally will also be required for the larger power programme because this is based on pressurised water reactors (PWR). So this signifies both. We have a compact power plant for propulsion but we also have PWR technology which can be used for electricity production through indigenous route in future.
So why should Indians be proud of this?
Well, one has to be proud because it has been done here, it has been done by Indians and this is something which is not available for the asking, whatever money you want to pay. There is no way to acquire that unless you do it yourself and not many countries have such a capability. So it is certainly a matter to be proud of.
So how different is a reactor in a nuclear submarine as compared to, say, a reactor you see at Narora or Kakrapar or by way of scale?
There are several very distinguishing features and very important challenges. First, it’s a moving system and particularly it’s a ship so we have to have a reactor which would work in spite of the different kinds of rolling, pitching motions. It could also be subjected to attacks supposing there’s a depth charge near by. It should be able to withstand the kind of acceleration loads that will be seen on the components. So this is one important challenge. We do design reactors for withstanding earthquakes. This is one, it has to be able to withstand motions and forces which are of a much larger magnitude. Then, the compactness is another feature within the space that you can occupy for a given power. A submarine reactor is extremely small compared to the corresponding case in a power station. Third is in terms of the energy density — again it arises out of the compactness but to be able to realise that, you should be able to exchange a large amount of power in a small volume in a small surface area. There are also requirements of the rapid response. In a land based reactor, we can live with a somewhat slower response in terms of change of power in a given time. But this being a propulsion system, particularly for the kind the navy people will be required to work on, you require a reactor which can have a very fast response. So that means the nuclear fuel has to be of that kind, the reactor systems have to be of that kind. So there are several such challenges which have been successfully overcome, quite apart from the fact that this is a PWR technology and that itself has its own challenges.
But people say or have constantly said that India doesn’t have the expertise in enrichment. So does this criticality of the ‘PRP,’ as it is called, lay to rest the controversy that India does not have the full capability of enrichment?
Yes, we have an enrichment plant at Mysore, the Rare Materials Plant and that plant has sufficient capacity to meet the requirements of this programme. This reactor is now running for three years. So obviously, we had got the fuel earlier than that.
Was this completely made in India?
Yes.
Designed, fabricated and executed in India?
Yes, that’s right, by Indian industries.
And by Indian scientists?
Yes.
At Vizag, the Prime Minister went out of the way and thanked the Russians, and the Russian Ambassador was also present. What was the role of the Russians? India had leased a Russian nuclear submarine?
I would also like to thank our Russian colleagues. They have played a very important role as consultants, they have a lot of experience in this, so their consultancy has been of great help. I think we should acknowledge that.
Consultancy for what?
For various things, as you go along when you are doing things for the first time — with a consultant by your side, you can do it more confidently and these are difficult time-consuming challenges. So you have to do this without too much of iterative steps and consultancy helped in that.
So this is not a Russian design?
It is an Indian design.
Indian design, made in India, by Indians?
Yes, that’s right.
Austin wrote:The entire command control system inside it comes from Russia .......its really a project of strategic nature that no one will ever talk in depth.
If no one will ever talk about it, how are you so confident about where the C&C system comes from?Austin wrote:The entire command control system inside it comes from Russia .......its really a project of strategic nature that no one will ever talk in depth.
You do not need a dock to construct the hull of the submarine. It can be done entirely on dry land where the different sections are constructed. L&T has much more operations in Vadodara than in Surat.Ankit Desai wrote:Mehta Sir that what I said. I didn't say whole sub construction at Hajira.Ankit Desai wrote:....Arihant's haul at its' facility at Hajira.....
I was puzzled by mentioned of Vadodara as it has nothing to do with sea or navy. It is interesting if Vadodara has such facility but sea is far from it while Surat has history and presence of L&T & Essar steel and their contribution toward Arihant.
Are you saying that Hajir plant is so full that they considered going to Vadodara instead of Hajira which already has expertise and experience to construct the one or Hajira plant could not deliver desired quality product ? If Vadodara has much more operation and capable enough than why did they go to Hajira first place ? Why would they go other place now?Kartik wrote:You do not need a dock to construct the hull of the submarine. It can be done entirely on dry land where the different sections are constructed. L&T has much more operations in Vadodara than in Surat.
your claim was that Vadodara is not near the sea and has no dock, so it cannot assemble the Arihant's hull (not haul as you put it). That claim is wrong, since putting together the sections, the welding and the piping does not require a dock, nor even a dry dock. This isn' the first time that we're hearing that L&T's Vadodara unit is the one that is assembling Arihant class vessel's hulls either. It may well be true, and you have no better source of information to call it wrong, certainly not on the basis that Vadodara does not have a port. As to the operational capability of the Vadodara unit, I'm from Vadodara and have some idea on exactly how large L&T's facilities in Vadodara are, and what scale of engineering resources they have at their disposal there.Ankit Desai wrote:Are you saying that Hajir plant is so full that they considered going to Vadodara instead of Hajira which already has expertise and experience to construct the one or Hajira plant could not deliver desired quality product ? If Vadodara has much more operation and capable enough than why did they go to Hajira first place ? Why would they go other place now?Kartik wrote:You do not need a dock to construct the hull of the submarine. It can be done entirely on dry land where the different sections are constructed. L&T has much more operations in Vadodara than in Surat.
It is DDM to me.
-Ankit
Thanks. Got it. Can you please give some source about Vadodara's involvement in Arihant or any sub. I am from Surat too.Kartik wrote:your claim was that Vadodara is not near the sea and has no dock, so it cannot assemble the Arihant's hull (not haul as you put it). ......
Defense Minister A.K. Antony told India’s parliament last May that Arihant might enter service in the first half of 2013.
This capability would complete India’s nuclear triad, making the country capable of launching missiles from air, land and sea. The triad’s other elements are the Agni missile with a range up to 3,106 mi., and the Mirage-2000, Su-30MKI and MiG-29 fighters.
Kartik has already answered you but here is one more POV.Ankit Desai wrote:Are you saying that Hajir plant is so full that they considered going to Vadodara instead of Hajira which already has expertise and experience to construct the one or Hajira plant could not deliver desired quality product ? If Vadodara has much more operation and capable enough than why did they go to Hajira first place ? Why would they go other place now?Kartik wrote:You do not need a dock to construct the hull of the submarine. It can be done entirely on dry land where the different sections are constructed. L&T has much more operations in Vadodara than in Surat.
It is DDM to me.
-Ankit
+1Philip wrote:Can't be helped.If we did not possess N-weapons,Pak would've got it long ago as they had an agreement with China even before the "Buddha smiled"! It has been Chinese strategy to assist in N-proliferation with its closest allies,"all weather friends",like NoKo and Pak,to undermine the US's massive advantage.In the Middle east,the Saudis have the bomb-by proxy Pak,with Chinese ballistic missiles to carry the warheads when required.This is why the Iranians are attempting to secure their insurance against the Saudi-Pak alliance.The west and Israel are desperately trying to stop the Iranians because of the risk to Israel.Israel can live with the Saudi bomb because of the military relationship it has with the US,and we do not know what secret agreements exist between them and perhaps the Israelis too.
The hard facts are that only those nations that have WMDs get respect.had Saddam actually had them,the west would not have dared to invade.They knew all along that he had nothing and made up the lie to justify the invasion.Watch the BBC's Panorama programme this Sunday evening for the details.
Siddhu wrote:Newbee Question: How many ATV are being developed? How many are completed and are in testing phase?There might be a possiblity that multiple SSNBs are being tested on the name of one?
OT- But people can have different ideas, take it to anther threadsubhamoy.das wrote: Because, all govt, no matter how corrupt, understands that the very existance of the India state, which is the holy miliking cow, can only be guaranteed by the strategic weapons and hence there is no compromise here.
The Indian Navy is developing a new top-secret naval base for its nuclear submarines, code-named Project Varsha, and located within a radius of approximately 200 kilometers from Visakhapatnam. The new base is designed to support all 8-12 Arihant -class submarines to be built for the Indian Navy and it will include state-of-the-art nuclear engineering support facilities and extensive crew accommodation.