Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SaiK » 20 Mar 2013 04:44

It is also important for nirbhay to court stealth skins (like RAM coating) etc. due to higher possibility of getting homed especially during terminal phase. nirbhay as a platform can be used to experiment next generation of stealth characteristics for ucav.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 20 Mar 2013 04:48

indranilroy wrote:
vic wrote:From Nirbhay size it seems that it would weight around 1400-1500 kg without booster and around 1800-1900kg with booster.


How are you guys guessing the weight?
6/(length of Tomahawk) X (weight of Tomahawk)?

New Indian Express: Nirbhay missile deviates from path, DRDO aborts mission
By Hemant Kumar Rout | ENS - BALASORE 12th March 2013 12:07 PM
According to defence sources :?: , the two-stage surface-to-surface missile has a length of six meters, diameter of 0.55 m, wing span 2.7 m and a launch weight of about 1,500 kgs. It can carry a payload of 450 kilograms.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 20 Mar 2013 05:01

I wanted to see what HK Rout had posted. He is quite credible on these matters.

He just confirmed something very important.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby shiv » 20 Mar 2013 07:55

^^weight of warhead?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby sum » 20 Mar 2013 08:05

ramana wrote:I wanted to see what HK Rout had posted. He is quite credible on these matters.

He just confirmed something very important.

^^+1.

Seems to have real good chaiwallahs at ITR

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pentaiah » 20 Mar 2013 08:19

Defence sources said the stealth missile which was launched from the launching complex-III of the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur-on-sea at about 11.50 am deviated from its intended trajectory after 20 minutes of flight.

In a statement, DRDO’s Directorate of Public Interface Director Ravi Kumar Gupta said after travelling approximately half of its pre-coordinated distance, deviations were observed from the missile’s intended course. “Further, flight was terminated to ensure coastal safety,” he stated.

Sources said the missile blasted off from a road mobile launcher and the initial lift up was smooth. “It traveled at a speed of 0.75 Mach and moved away from its designated path mid-way. The missile was then terminated to avoid any untoward incident. However, the system performed well till the deviation was witnessed,” the source added.


So it travelled 200 225 miles and they call it half of pre coordinated distance
That means a (full)range of only 500 miles that is 800 km only?


Designed for chotus that were tested separately the second day in 1998

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SaiK » 20 Mar 2013 08:30

but would it not be too risky to send a thermo on nirbhay?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby maitya » 20 Mar 2013 08:53

PratikDas wrote:New Indian Express: Nirbhay missile deviates from path, DRDO aborts mission
By Hemant Kumar Rout | ENS - BALASORE 12th March 2013 12:07 PM
According to defence sources :?: , the two-stage surface-to-surface missile has a length of six meters, diameter of 0.55 m, wing span 2.7 m and a launch weight of about 1,500 kgs. It can carry a payload of 450 kilograms.


But but 0.55m > 535mm :((

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 20 Mar 2013 09:11

ramana wrote:


While all the new technologies onboard the missile is said to have done their duties, what’s worrying the DRDO scientists is that a proven system might have given up at the crucial time.


I am willing to bet its the RLG that gave out. The only thing that explains the flight drift after the 2nd way point is if the stable platform sees an anomaly. And the RLG non-performance would match the worry of the scientists about proven system giving up.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 20 Mar 2013 09:13

450kg would be a huge conventional warhead. whatever it hits will be badly impacted.....and in a diving profile at 700kmph add in the unburned fuel also ....

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 20 Mar 2013 09:53

maitya wrote:But but 0.55m > 535mm :((

Arihant's torpedo tubes are 533 mm :)

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Indranil » 20 Mar 2013 10:04

PratikDas wrote:
maitya wrote:But but 0.55m > 535mm :((

Arihant's torpedo tubes are 533 mm :)

I don't know if the reporter is accurate about 550 mm. His "source" may have given him a ballpark figure. I think the diameter is 520 mm. The diagram is from ADE to NAL for the preparation of the wind tunnel model. It must be fairly accurate.
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby sum » 20 Mar 2013 10:13

ramana wrote:
ramana wrote:


I am willing to bet its the RLG that gave out. The only thing that explains the flight drift after the 2nd way point is if the stable platform sees an anomaly. And the RLG non-performance would match the worry of the scientists about proven system giving up.

Wasnt the RLG the one for which Satheesh Reddy got a award at RCI?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 20 Mar 2013 10:33

Thanks, Indranil.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby maitya » 20 Mar 2013 11:23

indranilroy wrote:
maitya wrote:But but 0.55m > 535mm :((

I don't know if the reporter is accurate about 550 mm. His "source" may have given him a ballpark figure. I think the diameter is 520 mm. The diagram is from ADE to NAL for the preparation of the wind tunnel model. It must be fairly accurate.


Thanks Indranil ... however since the aft-stabilizers/fins don't fold like the Russian Klub missiles, the dia that needs to be kept in mind is 1030mm - so absolutely no way of torpedo launch etc, unless foldable aft-fins are introduced.
However if that's introduced, then 520mm dia etc means, it will fit in the torpedo tubes which means some very interesting sub-launched possibilities. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby member_22539 » 20 Mar 2013 11:34

^^Has it been mentioned somewhere that the fins do not fold?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby krishnan » 20 Mar 2013 11:40

i dont think they fold

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby maitya » 20 Mar 2013 12:28

No it doesn't fold currently ... pls refer to this just-post-launch picture in Ajay Shukla's blog.
Image
It has barely left the launcher, and the aft fins are clearly visible while the fore fins are not yet deployed.

And actually, if you closely look at the dimensions in Indranil's posted line-drawing above, it will be quite a difficult task to squeeze-in those fins.
As, in the last 810mm of the missile body where both the turbofan and the fins are situated, out of the total 520mm dia available, the turbofan occupies 330mm dia leaving only 190mm to fit in these fins along with the deployment mechanism. :|

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 20 Mar 2013 13:27

thawk block4 cutaway indicates the fuel tank is in the nose and the engine is inclined down to face the air intake squarely.
interesting choices.
http://999puresilver.blogspot.in/2011/0 ... siles.html

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby krishnan » 20 Mar 2013 13:37

interesting...using silver

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 20 Mar 2013 14:05

also the satcom terminal for inflight comms. in earlier blocks it was a fixed target and once fired it could not be retargeted I think.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby JTull » 20 Mar 2013 14:28

TOI ticker is reporting that an underwater version of Brahmos has been tested.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby krishnan » 20 Mar 2013 14:42

Yeah, but not much info

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 20 Mar 2013 15:11

livefist:

The submarine-launched variant of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile was successfully testfired today for the first time in the Bay of Bengal, off the coast of Visakhapatnam. The launch and test was successful, with the missile hitting its target 292 km away. Photos shortly.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby jamwal » 20 Mar 2013 15:17

290 + 2 Km
What happened ?
:mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby rajanb » 20 Mar 2013 16:09

jamwal wrote:290 + 2 Km
What happened ?
:mrgreen:


Tailwinds from our -2 fliends. Messrs. Porki & Cheen :D -2=+2 A result of copy-cat and djinn technology

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby saje » 20 Mar 2013 16:17

Singha wrote:livefist:

The submarine-launched variant of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile was successfully testfired today for the first time in the Bay of Bengal, off the coast of Visakhapatnam. The launch and test was successful, with the missile hitting its target 292 km away. Photos shortly.


We'll never really know what was really fired.

Singha wrote:also the satcom terminal for inflight comms. in earlier blocks it was a fixed target and once fired it could not be retargeted I think.


Aha! So even Thawk is also a 'loitering cruise missile' !

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pentaiah » 20 Mar 2013 18:10

Tom hawk is 1000 miles range
Not 1000 KM

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby shyamd » 20 Mar 2013 18:25

Does India have a sub that Brahmos SLCM will be used in? Both present and those under-construction.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby rakall » 20 Mar 2013 18:29

shyamd wrote:Does India have a sub that Brahmos SLCM will be used in? Both present and those under-construction.


No... Next line of subs (the P75I, when it happens) is supposed to have the VLS for Brahmos..

Livefist has updated photos of the underwater launch Brahmos..

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Vipul » 20 Mar 2013 18:32

Submarine-launched version of BrahMos test fired.

India Wednesday successfully carried out the maiden test firing of the over 290km-range submarine-launched version of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile in the Bay of Bengal becoming the first country in the world to have this capability.

The submarine-launched version of BrahMos was successfully test fired from an underwater pontoon near Visakhapatnam, BrahMos CEO A Sivathanu Pillai said.

This is the first test firing of an underwater supersonic cruise missile anywhere in the world and the missile travelled its complete range of over 290 kms, he said.

He said the performance of the missile during the test launch was "perfect".

Ship and ground-launched versions of the missile have been successfully tested and put into service with the Indian Army and the Navy.

The maiden test of the submarine-launched version of BrahMos comes over a week after the indigenously built long-range subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay failed to hit its target in its first test.

"BrahMos missile is fully ready for fitment in submarines in vertical launch configuration which will make the platform one of the most powerful weapon platforms in the world," Pillai said.

Defence minister AK Antony congratulated DRDO scientists and Russian specialists along with officers of the Indian Navy associated with the project for successful test launch of missile from an underwater platform.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby member_20036 » 20 Mar 2013 18:36

Image
Image
Image
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby A Sharma » 20 Mar 2013 18:53

From the pics of K-15/B-05 in Jan you could see a part of underwater pontoon ( like 2 ends of a ship). How come you don't see that in case of today's brahmos test? Different pontoon may be?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Katare » 20 Mar 2013 19:04

From HR's article in IE

While the Bengaluru-based Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) has designed Nirbhay missile, most of its technologies have been derived from pilot less target aircraft Lakshya.

This may be the proof of Lakshya engine powering this missile....

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 20 Mar 2013 19:10

if you see the lakshya in HAL museum, the entire vehicle itself would weigh less than the nirbhay warhead. there is a huge diff in size and weight and I dont see any way the PTAE7 could ever power the nirbhay as is.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 20 Mar 2013 20:42

Second GD's views on the PTAE7. Its good for powering a drone like Lakshya. The range of 1000kms shows ita turbofan in order to benefit from the low SFC. A turbojet like a scaled up PTAE7 would need a very large tank of fuel.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 20 Mar 2013 20:54

Looking at complete absence of any pontoon marker etc i wonder if it was the ins chakra that fired it? Does the 23 inch tube of the akula torpedo room enough for brahmos? Notice it came up at an angle...typical when fired vertically from a moving sub or from a torpedo tube.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kanson » 20 Mar 2013 21:22

maitya wrote:No it doesn't fold currently ... pls refer to this just-post-launch picture in Ajay Shukla's blog.


Model of Nirbhay shown along with launcher do have folded tail fins.

Its been told, Nirbhay scores where Brahmos can't in Navy arsenal that means it can be tube launched too.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby vic » 20 Mar 2013 21:27

indranilroy wrote:
vic wrote:From Nirbhay size it seems that it would weight around 1400-1500 kg without booster and around 1800-1900kg with booster.


How are you guys guessing the weight?
6/(length of Tomahawk) X (weight of Tomahawk)?


Yes, or klub

IIRC I was reading somewhere that max range of Tomahawk at ideal altitude and speed is 2500km but on an effective wartime flight path it is 1500km.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kanson » 20 Mar 2013 21:30

^ that range is attributed only to Nuclear Tomahawk. What about block 4?


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