INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

saip · Post by **saip** » 10 Aug 2013 14:00

Congratulations to all the scientists!

venkat_r · Post by **venkat_r** » 10 Aug 2013 14:20

Wow! Great news Arihant is finally here, it has been a very long wait!

Congrats and looking forward for operational deployment news and some nice pics.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 10 Aug 2013 14:23

Suraj wrote:Finally, 4 years after Gagan's great drawings and the single shot of the conning tower, maybe we can see more of this boat.

Good Lord has it been four years already?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 10 Aug 2013 14:23

That's not Arihant. Else the satellite pictures would be out by now.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 10 Aug 2013 14:24

Austin wrote:
Amitabh wrote:Another pic via Sandeep Unnithan

http://media2.intoday.in/indiatoday/ima ... 115237.jpg
The quality of build is seen to be believed , The Tiles and Smoothness look quite good

That's a pic of the USS Key West. See here: http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.ph ... sw-part-1/

Things are going from bad to worse on the pictures front.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Aug 2013 17:47

I knew it. the white sonar area never matched that of the genuine arihant pic..

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Aug 2013 18:16

nachiket , Thanks for pointing it out....Guess we have to wait longer. Cant believe its 4 years since MMS did the namkaran tilak of the Arihant ... I guess it would have been better if they did that post Arihant Reactor went critical ........which is what I thought was the case when it was named.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Aug 2013 18:18

india today should be grilled for unnecessarily proding our austin!

please look for picture that resembles this:

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Aug 2013 18:43

With minor changes that India Today sub CGI represents Yasen Class SSGN with Sail close to Bow and Spherical Sonar , VLS behind Sail ..... the only thing wrong there is they dont have those podded sonar but thats now a small cylindrical over over the rudder.

As we know from leaked picture the sails is different and more towards the center of Hull and its got diving planes on the Sail.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 10 Aug 2013 19:24

I will be quite happy on when pictures of the 1st boat show up as the 3rd boat

as long as the navy is happily utilizing - i am glad

no khujli for me to see clearer pictures

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Aug 2013 22:09

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/350 ... -shut.html
India's first indigenously-designed and built reactor for a submarine - INS Arihant - is functioning well but will be shut down sometime later to study reports of its functioning, top atomic energy establishment officials said.

According to the officials, the reactor for a second nuclear submarine has also been delivered to the Navy.

"The reactor in INS Arihant is functioning well. It will be shut down later to study the reports generated," Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) chairman R.K. Sinha told IANS over phone Saturday.

Speaking to IANS over phone, Bhabha Atomic Research Centre director Sekhar Basu said: "After a reactor goes critical (beginning of the nuclear fission process), it is shut down to check the reports. Then the reactor physics experiments will be done. Unlike land based power reactors, shutting down and restarting a submarine reactor is not a big problem."

The reactor on board INS Arihant was activated Friday night and its successful functioning was termed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh as a "giant stride" in the progress of the country's indigenous capabilities.

The officials also lauded the scientists' achievement.

"It is a great moment for all of us. It is a great technological achievement for our scientists in designing and building the reactor," said Sinha, who is also secretary of the department of atomic energy.

"The design was unique as compared to a land-based reactor. The reactor was designed and manufactured in India," he added.

The submarine reactor was developed from a land-based prototype located in Kalpakkam, around 70km from here.

The scientists' team was given the mandate to develop a land-based prototype power pack for a submarine and development and construction of a nuclear steam generating system for the sea-going version.

There is a sea of difference between designing a nuclear power pack to propel a submarine and a land-based atomic power station. While a land-based atomic power plant gets support from the grid and others, a nuclear power pack in a submarine does not have such fallback systems.

The 82.5 MW nuclear reactor for submarine has been designed at Kalpakkam by PRP Centre - PRP originally stood for Plutonium Reprocessing Project - under the BARC.
Prior to his current position, Basu was heading the PRP.

According to Indian nuclear scientists the major challenges in designing the reactor for INS Arihant were miniaturisation of the land-based plant to fit into the confined space of a submarine and also making it lightweight but strong enough to endure the shock due to depth discharge.

The reactor, while withstanding the pitch and roll of a submarine should also be capable of accelerating and decelerating at a quick pace - unlike a land-based power plant which would ramp up speed in a gradual manner.

The reactor designed for a long fuelling cycle time, would also have to be capable of remaining under water for an extended period, the sortie time being essentially dictated by the endurance of the crew.

The land-based version kept at Kalpakkam was conceived and built as a technology demonstrator for the compact pressurised water reactor with a load following capability.
Also known as 'half boat', the entire propulsion plant with primary, secondary, electrical and propulsion systems along with its integrated control was packed in the aft end of the land-based submarine hull designed and built specifically for this purpose.

While in sea the reactor supplies super-heated steam to the propulsion plant to run the submarine, at the PRP Centre, the propulsion power is absorbed in the dynamometer which in turn is cooled by sea water.

.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Aug 2013 01:01

INS Arihant reactor goes critical
by T S S

India is building three more nuclear-powered submarines at Visakhapatnam as part of its programme to shore up its strategic programme and second strike capability.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/i ... epage=true
Next, the propulsion system, that is, the secondary system would be proved. “Once the propulsion system is proven and made operational, we will go for sea trials,”

There were many other important systems and components which had gone into the reactor, which were completely indigenous and manufactured in India

earlier our pm as said: our Russian friends for their consistent and invaluable cooperation

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 11 Aug 2013 03:08

Unlike land based power reactors, shutting down and restarting a submarine reactor is not a big problem."

It better not be as it is one of the requirement
a) safety angle
b) operational angle when sitting at depth and waiting the enemy to pass or ambush ( not complete shut down but bare minimal)
c) if required to scuttle

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Aug 2013 03:41

a good article to read.. http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Non-P ... red-Ships/

PWR hghlights.

read about the reactor dead time:
http://mragheb.com/Nuclear_naval_propulsion.pdf

geeth · Post by **geeth** » 11 Aug 2013 09:26

The Hindu Article says, Civilian 900 MWe PWR reactor is in progress based on Submarine reactor tech,. Any further info on this ?

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 11 Aug 2013 09:37

In a first for India, nuclear sub’s reactor activated

Arihant’s reactor achieved “criticality” — the term used to describe the self-sustaining nuclear reaction which is the first step towards the stable production of power — when the boat was “already in the sea.”

Probably, they didn't want the reactor to go critical inside the shipyard, for safety.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Aug 2013 09:57

well, the reactor should have been built to withstand rolls,pitch and yaws to an accepted degree of vibrations.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Aug 2013 10:44

SaiK wrote:well, the reactor should have been built to withstand rolls,pitch and yaws to an accepted degree of vibrations.

Saik,
Its built to take stowage shock aka nuke depth charges as its stray outlosd vessel.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Aug 2013 20:40

oh yeah!.. what am I talking then is stupid.

kit · Post by **kit** » 11 Aug 2013 22:59

Why is IN so coy about releasing real pics of the arihant ? You can understandably cover up the propellers

.. unless it is a pumpjet ! The british et all were very public when their SSBNs were launched ?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Aug 2013 23:26

here you go:

akula?

http://news.in.msn.com/national/india-m ... -activated

New Delhi/Chennai: In a major step towards India attaining its long-awaited nuclear weapons triad, the reactor on board the country's first indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant was activated early Friday, paving way for its deployment by the navy after sea trials.Prime Minister Manmohan Singh described as a "giant stride" in the progress of the country's indigenous capabilities. Defence Minister A.K. Antony also lauded the "tireless efforts" of the large team that had worked on the project.The nuclear reactor on INS Arihant (slayer of enemies) had gone critical and the submarine was on its own power now.

"The reactor in INS Arihant is functioning well. It will be shut down later to study the reports generated," Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) chairman R.K. Sinha told IANS over phone.He said the design was unique as compared to a land-based reactor."The reactor was designed and manufactured in India," he added. The submarine reactor was developed from a land-based prototype located in Kalpakkam, around 70km from Chennai.Speaking to IANS over phone, Bhabha Atomic Research Centre director Sekhar Basu said: "After a reactor goes critical (beginning of the nuclear fission process), it is shut down to check the reports. Then the reactor physics experiments will be done. Unlike land based power reactors, shutting down and restarting a submarine reactor is not a big problem." The 82.5 MW nuclear reactor for submarine has been designed at Kalpakkam by PRP Centre - PRP originally stood for Plutonium Reprocessing Project - under the BARC. Prior to his current position, Basu was heading the PRP.

The reactor attained "criticality" after months of testing at the navy's submarine facility at Visakhapatnam, Andhra Pradesh, said sources.They said that the 6,000-tonne submarine will head for open sea for extensive sea trials that include firing of nuclear capable K-15 missiles. The sources said that sea trials were expected to take about 18 months.Once operational, the submarine will provide India third leg of its nuclear triad - the capacity to fire nuclear weapons from land, sea and air. The army has nuclear capable Agni and Prithvi-II missiles in its arsenal and the air force has aircraft capable of delivering nuclear warheads.

Sources said that nuclear submarine has advantages over conventional submarine as it can stay under water for months making its detection very difficult.They said India has a declared no-first use policy for nuclear weapons and having sea based capability to fire such weapons was critical for a credible deterrence."Once INS Arihant becomes operational, India's deterrent ability will increase manifold," an official said.Manmohan Singh expressed happiness at the nuclear propulsion reactor on board INS Arihant achieving "criticality" and said he looked forward to early commissioning of the submarine."I extend my congratulations to all those associated with this important milestone, particularly the Department of Atomic Energy, the Indian Navy and the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO)," he said.Today's development represents a giant stride in the progress of our indigenous technological capabilities. It is testimony to the ability of our scientists, technologists and defence personnel to work together for mastering complex technologies in the service of our nation's security," he said.Defence Minister A. K. Antony also congratulated defence scientists, personnel of Indian Navy and other organisations for activation of nuclear reactor and termed the step as a "very important milestone towards self-reliance in critical areas."Tireless efforts" of scientists and other personnel had resulted in INS Arihant's nuclear reactor attaining criticality early Saturday morning.He noted that the indigenous nuclear submarine would be "the pride of the Navy" when it joins the fleet.

Defence analyst Gulshan Luthra, who had broken the news of India's first nuclear test and withdrawal of Canadian nuclear assistance as the first international reaction in May 1974, described the development as a sign of near-maturity."We need to be members of nuclear and missile technology denial regimes, go in for for four to five more SSBN (Nuclear Powered Nuclear Armed) class submarines and also at least two or three large (60,000 tonnes-plus) nuclear powered aircraft carriers. The good thing is the government is working in these directions," Luthra told IANS.Luthra said that INS Arihant should be able to conduct underwater missile tests by early 2015. The missiles, however, will not be nuclear-tipped.

.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 12 Aug 2013 02:27

While the sat eyes are glued at Cochin for the IAC's launch, the Arihant will quietly slip in and out of Vizag.

Typical yindoo obfuscation.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 12 Aug 2013 06:13

It has probably already slipped out to the sea

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 12 Aug 2013 09:52

Just don't get this whole secrecy around Arihant... what is there to hide?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Aug 2013 10:08

only reason could be if it has more than 4 silos claimed. maybe 6 maybe 8. that would drive new excel sheet computations in hostile corners of the world.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Aug 2013 10:20

right.. too early to show .. perhaps the right time is after bo5 is tested from arihant and becomes operational. or are they going to make us dance for a pic till k4?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 12 Aug 2013 10:24

maybe its more than what we all think

nits · Post by **nits** » 12 Aug 2013 12:02

INS Vikrant: The story of India's incredible hard work

Some thing which i was not aware; pasting from article

Notwithstanding these incredible markers on the road to self-defence, it is likely to be decades before the navy can send an Arihant-class submarine into waters close to Pakistan or China. This is because the Arihant is still very noisy and at an underwater speed of 24 knots cannot run away easily. (With a 500 kg Sagarika missile on board, whose range is about 700 km, it can at best threaten Pakistan.)

Compared with the Arihant, the Russian, the Americans and the Chinese (operating nuclear subs for more than 25 years), have the capability to detect submarines from miles away.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 12 Aug 2013 12:07

That speculative nonsense isn't worth the effort of responding to.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 12 Aug 2013 12:54

Which navy is going to send its boomers "close to" an enemy's coastline! The whole purpose of an SSBN is to stay silent and hide from enemy nuclear attack boats and anti-sub forces,and not run at top speed underwater.As I mentioned in another post,even SSN/SSGNs like the Akula have miniature "creeper" motors for silent speed.Details of the ATV will be few in the public domain.Its quietness factor will only come to us from western intel/tech. sources once the sub is underway in open sea,as they will no doubt be trailing it to record its UW signature.As for the number of silos,all those present at the launch of the sub could not have but noticed the number of silos unless this zone was kept under wraps,which from the single official pic appears not to have been done.Certainly future subs will have at least double/triple the number of silos.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Aug 2013 13:23

she has special sensors to say the Arihant is very noisy and what its top speed is well before it does proper sea trials!
this when not even 1 proper pic is released, let along any credible data on its performance.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 12 Aug 2013 13:56

nits wrote:INS Vikrant: The story of India's incredible hard work

The Kilo class sub photo in the article lends much credibility to it.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 12 Aug 2013 14:35

The pictures thing is beyond funny now. Every guy reporting about it is searching random submarine pics on the Internet and choosing the one he/she likes as the Arihant. Even Sandeep Unnithan, the guy who gave us the one real pic four years ago couldn't control himself.

That business about being noisy is utter crap as well. It may very well be noisy considering that it is our first effort, but no journalist would actually have any real data about it to say that so confidently.

Edit: Corrected the journalist's name.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 12 Aug 2013 15:07

Anujan wrote:
nits wrote:INS Vikrant: The story of India's incredible hard work
The Kilo class sub photo in the article lends much credibility to it.

Isn't she the same Jyoti "I am a Paki Agent" Malhotra???

gosh, these guys make me physically ill..

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 12 Aug 2013 15:54

The original story is here , Rediff did a rip off

INS Arihant: A classic example of defence collaborations

Ajit.C · Post by **Ajit.C** » 12 Aug 2013 15:58

This is utter crap

The ATV project was launched as long ago as 1974 in the wake of the India-Pakistan war in 1971 when the US nuclear submarine, the USS Enterprise, sneaked into the Indian Ocean and the Soviets sent in one of their own to warn the Americans. The then prime minister Indira Gandhi was said to have been considerably impressed by the power of the nuclear submarine to change the course of a war, and ordered the beginning of the ATV project in 1974.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 12 Aug 2013 16:32

Amitabh wrote:Another pic via Sandeep Unnithan

Simple Google image search shows that it is a photo of USS key west (a LA class sub).

http://www.google.co.in/search?tbs=sbi: ... CCgQ9Q8oAA

Original source

http://www.steelnavy.com/images/KeyWest/
http://www.steelnavy.com/images/KeyWest ... tfwd02.jpg

And this reporter unninathan * is supposed to be the best of the ddm we have.
And that trash jyothi malhotra is batting for FDI in defence on behalf of her foreign masters in the context of a strategic project

These guys have no shame

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 12 Aug 2013 17:05

Anujan wrote:
nits wrote:INS Vikrant: The story of India's incredible hard work
The Kilo class sub photo in the article lends much credibility to it.

so many goof ups, look at the titile INS vikrant, but the article is about INS arihant and the photo is also a goof up

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Aug 2013 17:08

crap.. time to take it off the thread.

member_23455 · Post by **member_23455** » 12 Aug 2013 17:22

Folks...it's Sandeep Unnithan not Unnikrishnan. Let us not go the DDM way!