India-US Strategic News and Discussion

[SanjayC]

BIG BROTHERLY POSTURING

Kanwal Sibal

The Devyani Khobragade affair that has rocked India and the United States of America’s relations so unexpectedly carries many lessons. It has highlighted the inherent difficulty in forging an equal relationship with the US. The US’s attitude towards other countries is conditioned by its status as the world’s pre-eminent power, its view of itself as the repository of the best political, economic and human values which it seeks to universalize, its urge to constantly judge others and rank countries in accordance with the degree to which they measure up to its values and its willingness to impose these by force if necessary, even if that entails terrible misery for others.

The US has escalated a minor wage dispute between an Indian diplomat and her India-based maid beyond all proportion in a stubborn bid to apply its labour laws to domestic staff of foreign diplomats as if they are immigrants and employed from the local labour pool. If US society was perfect, without any exploitation, injustice and discrimination, if its institutions protected unfailingly the dignity and human rights of every individual, if its police forces were exemplary in their conduct, then the obstinate efforts to ensure that a foreign diplomat conformed to its pristine standards might make some sense. The Devyani episode shows that at the highest level US decision-makers are willing to jeopardize an important relationship on a narrow point of law applied arbitrarily. India could also face unpredictable US behaviour tomorrow on some other issue on which the Americans mulishly uphold some principle of their own making. This makes the reliability of the US as a partner uncertain. If the US political class can allow, as we have seen, a significant relationship to be gratuitously buffeted by secondary issues, it would be unwise to become over-dependent on it. We should keep enough distance from the US so that our ability to resist its encroachment on our rights and sovereignty is not lost.

American rhetoric about India should be discounted. Grandiloquent language comes easily to the Americans, and flattering phrases from the world’s foremost power can be beguiling. How can the US talk of helping India become a great power — a patronizing attitude in the first place — if it is ready to humiliate India on a minor wage issue? The Devyani affair and the decision to evacuate Indian nationals was not simply a mis-step by some overzealous individuals, the US ambassador in India and the state department were involved in it over months. The inability of the secretary of state and the White House to appreciate properly the consequences of US action on India-US relations and the unwillingness to intervene in a timely manner points to serious deficiencies in political monitoring of the processes of decision-making in the state and justice departments.

For all the inflated talk of India and the US being the world’s largest and oldest democracies and sharing the same values, the reality is that the US internally scoffs at the institutions of democracy in India, as the egregious act of evacuating Indian citizens from the purview of Indian courts shows. Indians have been the largest recipient of US visas that are associated with severe sex or labour trafficking. That our authorities have not monitored such an assault on our legal system is inexcusable. With the pervasive view that the US and India were now genuine strategic partners, our inclination has been not to disturb the relationship and even overlook objectionable US behaviour. In spite of Edward Snowden’s revelations about India being the fifth largest victim of US snooping, we have preferred to bury the issue. Time has now come to clamp down hard on the US embassy by warning it in writing that such evacuation amounts to interference in India’s internal affairs and, if continued, will expose their diplomats to legal action. The credentials of the expelled US diplomat’s replacement should be scrutinized carefully and the visa granted on the specific condition that he will not be involved in such activities.

Beyond this, we should move towards reducing the size of the US missions in India. Our most important relationship in many ways is with the US, but we have a small embassy there. India is by no means the most important country for the US but it has one of its largest embassies here — 10 times the size of our embassy in Washington. One clear explanation for the discrepancy in size is that we do not monitor US internal affairs on a scale that the US does or try to penetrate its political and administrative structures. We should ease out surplus US diplomats dealing with human rights and trafficking issues as well as those handling communications to prevent snooping. Besides imposing security burdens on us, an over-staffed embassy gives the US means to more easily penetrate our system, influence and monitor decision-making, create lobbies that will advocate the US viewpoint even against our national interest and shield the US from retaliatory action for unacceptable conduct. The cover of intensive friendly engagement and numerous dialogues gives the US key platforms to push their agenda; we should not increase our vulnerability unwittingly.

The commentary in the mainstream US press on the Devyani affair carries a lesson for us too. It has been parochial, full of condescension, narrow political thinking and cultural insensitivity. Editorials have poured scorn on Indian reactions as being petty, unbecoming of a democracy and a would-be great power. If India had dutifully accepted the affront as well-deserved and applauded the application of US humane laws to one of our erring diplomats, we would have, of course, proven our democratic and potential big power credentials. Our reflexes have been compared to those of Russia and China. India, it seems, cannot aspire to great power status outside US control of its world-view. The US press has also scoffed at the addiction of our middle class to domestic servants, its maltreatment of the underclasses — a harking back to attitudes before the nuclear deal, India’s growth story and its success in information technology. If tomorrow there are substantive policy differences with the US, the American press will unleash itself against us, distorting our case with the American public.

The US manipulation of our own media puts us at a double disadvantage. Its tactics in highlighting the removal of barricades around the US embassy as a vengeful act threatening the security of US diplomats — which is false — succeeded partially. In a bid to isolate the external affairs ministry, US-linked editors have launched tirades against the Indian Foreign Service by imputing that the IFS is merely seeking to protect its feudal privileges, no question of principle is involved, even suggesting that the IFS was placing its parochial interest above the national interest. We have had a long history of Indians selling their own country’s interest and it is not surprising that this venerable tradition continues.

Unless India reacts strongly to US high-handedness when required we will neither have self-respect nor will we be respected by the international community as a country with an independent foreign policy.

Once Modi becomes PM, these "US linked editors" need to be beaten with shoes by other Indians.

[SanjayC]

Goras have got their tentacles deep into India.

MongoDB startup hired by Aadhaar got funds from CIA VC arm

So a CIA-funded company is going to manage India's Aadhaar database. I was always curious about this Aadhaar business and why the MMS Govt. is hell bent on making it mandatory for Indian citizens, despite Supreme Court being against it. Now, I get the answer -- it is Goras pulling the strings from behind so that they can control our citizenship registry. Imagine the kind of data Goras will be able to access for every citizen in India -- your bank account, your transactions, your purchases ...

[SSridhar]

. . . if that indeed was the case then would Amir Khan have allowed the whole thing to become such a circus with all the negative media publicity? I mean the easy way out could have been to declare DK PNG the moment the Richards family was in the US and send her packing. What did Khan gain by the strip and cavity search (unless you want to think that it would be willing to stoop to such a personal level to teach DK a lesson, forgetting the larger picture of international relations) and allowing the joker PB loose?

amit, unless a WikiLeak-II or Snowden-II happens, we may not get to the bottom of this. But, let me say that the US can act very stupidly too. There have been many instances. Positive News has some of them. I won't rule out DK being punished for what MKB said. May be they were encouraged by past Indian submissiveness and expected the same to play out. May be, they thought they could also demonstrate their determination on being tough on 'trafficking'. Two mangoes in one throw of the stone. I suspect that if DK & India had not reacted in the way they did eventually, the 'trafficking' charges would have been retained. The dropping of this charge shows that it was not the prime intent in the first place and was just added on as an after-thought. What did the US gain through strip search ? Nothing, but they never expected that this SOP which is accepted as 'no big deal' even by some Indians, would explode on their face. The situation simply went out of control.

[SSridhar]

Goras have got their tentacles deep into India.

No doubt. WikiLeaks showed it to us. I also quoted an instance. At this year's Carnatic music season, my Sabha's season was inaugurated by the US Consul even as DK's incident was playing out !

[vishvak]

If you look at airyan invasion theory(AIT), it was targeted for/against particular groups -as defined by Europeans- that too after invading others. This propaganda was going on for hundreds of years and used conveniently. This after hundreds of years of invasions and genocides by invaders from west were ignored too. Such propaganda seems to have got a number of people to not see real politic selectively from European/American perspective. No one seems to inquire about say prostitution near bases of USA.

[sivab]

Sanjay, Thanks.

[Amber G.]

Goras have got their tentacles deep into India.

No doubt. WikiLeaks showed it to us. I also quoted an instance. At this year's Carnatic music season, my Sabha's season was inaugurated by the US Consul even as DK's incident was playing out !

SSridhrji permit me to enquire - Did you ask the Consul what (s)he thought about DK's custodial rape in his/her country? If not why not? If you did, what was the consul's reply?

Serious question for all who are posting here - What's all this endless gali galoch about "gora's" (not to mention MATA's and MUTUS")..If goras have their tentacles deep in India, then people who are letting these tentacles spread are even more to blame.

[Vayutuvan]

I won't rule out DK being punished for what MKB said.

I posit that there was no intention of killing two birds with one stone. It was always USSD driven operation. When things went our of control (may be DCG did get an inkling), SD immediately switched gears and started projecting this as "human trafficking" issue to extract SR's family. That explains why PB came to know of the "details" very late in the game. Also, since DS160 was submitted online, how easy is it to change the salary figures? Would DCG remember what she entered in the form with so many things to juggle at work and at home? By the way, DCG being "rich and high caste" as some poster put it is very easy to check for the US. In fact SD employs a few local agencies to verify police records of applicants who want to naturalize/get PR.

If the covert operation has gone wrong, it is better to take the attention from that by making something else a big thing to keep people wondering whether things went south due to bumbling not malice. If they just declared DCG a PNG and let go of it, then Indian RAA agints would have put two and two togther, especially because DCG DK either had an inkling and got targeted or she was in fact feeding wrong information through this channel to US. Their taking the bait would get back to India, of course.

Now we wonder whether it was simply incompetence on the part of SD. At this point PB also might have been co-opted with instructions to act irrationally to throw the sniffers off the scent. He also might have had a (bipartisan) assurance that this would not hurt his chances of achieving his political ambitions, i.e. his nomination would be accepted smoothly with some token questioning by the GOP.

[chaanakya]

Khobragade "On Watchlist," But US Let French Dip Serman Return as Consul
By Matthew Russell Lee, Follow Up on Exclusive

UNITED NATIONS, January 10 -- Following yesterday's US indictment of Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade for underpaying a domestic worker, US State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki today said that Khobragade was told that if she applies for another visa to the US, her name would be placed on a watch list.

Back in 2011, though, Inner City Press uncovered and exclusively reported on the case of a French diplomat, Romain Serman, who after assaulting a New York Police Department officer while allegedly buying cocaine was allowed to leave the country before any indictment. See story here, arrest report here.

It seems clear that Serman was NOT placed on any watch list, because he not only returned to the US -- he is now France's consul in San Francisco.

While it may be debatable if assaulting a police officer when being arrested for cocaine purchase is more or less serious than allegedly underpaying a domestic worker, the disparity in US treatment between the French and Indian and French diplomat cannot be missed.

The Indian diplomat was arrested, booked and stripped searched, indicted and told she'd be put on a visa watch list. The French diplomat Romain Serman was allowed to quietly leave the country without any indictment, and was allowed to return, as consul.

Usually the agreement upon being allowed to leave the US in this way is that the person will not come back to the US. But, amazingly, Romain Serman came back to the US -- as France's consul in San Francisco, still.

When Inner City Press reported this, the then spokesperson of the French mission demanded that Inner City Press remove the story from the Internet.

As with stories on Sri Lanka that the United Nations Correspondents Association demanded be taken down from the Internet or Inner City Press face expulsion, Inner City Press refused. The French spokesperson called this a "hostile act" (Inner City Press countered that it was an act of journalism) and things proceeded from there.

This becomes even more relevant now in light of reports not only of the disparity in indictment of Khobragade versus none for the French Serman, but of US State Department spokesperson Psaki's comments today about being put on a watch list.

Back in April 2011, Inner City Press asked spokespeople at the US Mission to the UN and then Mark Toner at the State Department, "Was the State Department aware of Serman's arrest record when he re-entered in 2010, and how does applicable law and precedent allow this?"

And we're still waiting for a response, as we are to FOIA requests pending at the State Department. Soon the new Free UN Coalition for Access will have to get on this case.

[member_28434]

Hi,

Some seem to be in denial about DK episode. It is a clearly organized, deliberately hostile act.

1. Kerry knew - please check state dept documents.

2. Biswal came in late (Oct 2013). She and PB are mostly just fronts for money power interests, even higher up than Kerry or BO.

3. The person who knew and likely coordinated is Robert Blake, previous Asst Secy. Has a history of meddling in the internal affairs of countries. Persuaded India to join against Lanka in public condemnation. US policy is in favor of LTTE, where it used to be against. This shows influence of international money power.

Notice that pro LTTE DMK politicians denounced GOI on DK and supported maid. Remember Tuticorin incident. Suspect lots of infiltration of Mossad/CIA in South India. Maid is from some such intel infiltrated Kerala mafia, no doubt. USG is not acting from national interests alone. It leads Western, former colonial, powers.

4. USINPAC (Indian lobby in US) did condemn - they are a good group to approach and educate/
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... t-us-india

5. Another group to educate and align is the non-Khalistani Sikh lobby, which was shut out of Congressional Sikh caucus in April 2013

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... r-ami-bera

6. Note multiple "color revolutions" all over the globe, being co-ordinated & encouraged by intelligence with full support of BO and Kerry plus SD. Activity of social media and of "whistleblowers" (Assange, Snowden) is coordinated with these.

Ukraine (Kerry and NATO support for opposition)
Brazil ("Anonymous" - said to be front for NSA- supports protests)
Venezuela
Thailand
Russia (pussy riot and following events)
BRICS as in the cross-hairs for sure....they are emerging powers.

7. Stay suspicious of all "alternative" mouthpieces trumpeted in major media like Wikileaks, Snowden , Anonymous. Major media exists for propaganda by distortion, emphasis, omission. Omission is important. What is not said.

Take useful info but suspect red herring or "control the opposition" type operation.

8. Term conspiracy theory is used to censor. See if theory holds water, then it is a conspiracy fact.

[vic]

I think rape was ordered to tell the IFS by USA as who is their real Daddy!

[UlanBatori]

4. USINPAC (Indian lobby in US) did condemn - they are a good group to approach and educate/
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... t-us-india
5. Another group to educate and align is the non-Khalistani Sikh lobby, which was shut out of Congressional Sikh caucus in April 2013
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... r-ami-bera

How much of these have you already done, birather?
BTW, I must say how proud I am to see the level of CT talent here...

[member_28434]

"Who is their daddy"

Exactly. Please google the name Rafael Patai. His book on Arab psychology was used by CIA as training to come up with humiliating tactics to be used against Muslims.

These kinds of operations are intelligence created and outside purview of Congress, so yes, many people in the USG are also out of the loop, but they play their part like chess pieces.

Repeat - "conspiracy theory" is simply a censorship tactic to prevent people from connecting dots.

Please research Mockingbird (CIA control of media), MKUltra (mind-control research), Paperclip (bringing in Nazi scientists into US) and many many others. All these continue, despite denials.

Lots of disinfo, confusion, and exaggeration on conspiracy sites, so check and question for yourself.
But do not think such things as DK are result of "few bad apples."
That is what they said about Abu Ghraib too. And they were lying.

This is high-level policy.Political figures are controlled by blackmail today. They have to go along... Or they are careerists willing to do what they are told.

Global intel (CIA, Mossad, MI6) under direct control of money-power.
Be dismissive of such things at your own peril.

[member_28434]

Quote: How much of these have you already done, birather?

I have not done. Cannot do, due to time limitations and position.
They are suggestions for those who can do.

[Amber G.]

Khobragade "On Watchlist," But US Let French Dip Serman Return as Consul

Thanks for posting this.
(Another good post at http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 6#p1587816)

To add to above, Note that DK's Lawyers last motion (copy available at one of the sivab's link) asserts that that particular court has no power/authority to try the case, only limited authority it has is to dismiss the case.

Interesting also was a reaction from a well known US lawyer/expert to PB's reply - which was something to the effect - IIRC -
"It is not up to this court to decide about immunity - immunity is something negotiated between two governments

[Vayutuvan]

chaankya:

If PB is pressing forward and pursuing and accusing that DK had mis-treated SR. HJe can do it as USSD had given the go-ahead saying that there is no immunity. Legally speaking, can he ask for the case to be dropped at this stage? He could have dropped the case had SD big-wigs accepted India's claim that DCG was under the cloak of immunity. Since they haven't done that even if some non-lawyers laugh at him he will do whatever is allowed so as to represent the US govt. in the court. Otherwise wouldn't this be grounds for debarring him and/or his assistants?

Also, if the intention is to show DK in bad light, PB would present whatever evidence he has (or might have already presented and the court is still deciding whether it is admissible or not to protect DK "the person"'s reputation till the decision is made from SD to accept India's immunity argument). Also, if such an evidence exists - I am not sure if anything like that exists but I am guessing because PB seems to be very sure about the whole affair - and is made public, whatever the immunity VCCR/VCCD impositions are, I will bet dollars to donuts that there would be headlines in all the major papers painting IFS and Indian burocrats in bad light.

[member_28380]

Also strange was PB's comment in the document submitted to the judge, .. that DK now (because she is no longer in USA) does not have any immunity..

I wonder if the expectation is that the Marines will land in Naya Dilli and grab DK to face "justice" PB istyle? I think this guy watches too many Hollywood thrillers.

Although this sounds far fetched, India should not exclude this as an impossiblity.

The persistent, most recent aggressive behavior and comments of PB and his minions could be a defensive in anticipation of a potential “malicious prosecution” case which DK could bring up against PB and even SD. This could explain their digging in their heels. They are insisting adamantly they did nothing absolutely, remotely wrong. i.e. they genuinely interpreted the Vienna diplomatic conventions and they had sound legal underpinnings to their prosecution.

By no means I'm implying they are afraid. These thugs lack conscience and don't care.

However, the global picture of looking at the behavior of US/SD/Justice dept can all be explained by a much simpler unifying explanation:
Briefly….Bully attitude

Expanded….We did it, we can do it, we can get away with it, what are you going to do little Injuns, big deal just get over it, you will face more bad consequences if you don’t back down.

[member_28380]

^^ The above sounds insulting to India, but there are many positives.

--Reduction of the huge, bloated number of US embassy staff should be reduced as the first step in tackling US subversive activities in India.
---India is free to pursue its national interests and not feel timid about its relations with Iran, Russia, for example.

[Amber G.]

Preet Bharara wrong on immunity, says lawyer

Arshack told PTI that the "US attorney is again wrong on the facts and the law".

Arshack has time till February 7 to file his reply to the government's motion.

Meanwhile, Indian-American attorney Ravi Batra said US federal law states that Khobragade's consular status-based immunity, limited to official acts, does not legally prevent arrest from occurring and charges being levelled. He contended that it is not for the judge to decide if Khobragade ought to have been arrested or charged. The two countries need to settle the issue to prevent further damage ....

[Vayutuvan]

He (Ravi Batra) contended that it is not for the judge to decide if Khobragade ought to have been arrested or charged. The two countries need to settle the issue to prevent further damage ....

What I had been saying all along. PB and the judge are going on a parallel track after USSD's memo of stating that the DCG does not have immunity. Getting into the nitty-gritty details of the indictment and the court process is all irrelevant and is only of interest to the specialist attorneys who understand such things.

[Amber G.]

This news report also echoes what I posted before... some views are similar...
PB's stupid and unnecessary hostile comments on GOI is going to be very harmful..

Sorry if some one has already posted this from TOI..

India-US ties face new test over Devyani's legal war

WASHINGTON: Any expectation that New Delhi and Washington would tide over and quickly heal from the so-called Khobragade episode involving immunity relating to an Indian diplomat's alleged criminal infractions are being laid to rest. The two sides are in for a long, ugly, bruising battle, some of it already being played out in a New York courtroom.

The State Department last week legally backed the insistence of its law-enforcement brigade that Devyani Khobragade did not enjoy diplomatic immunity at the time of her arrest, and therefore US authorities were not wrong in arresting and detaining her. More to the point, Washington's legal interpretation gave a green light to US Attorney Preet Bharara to continue pursuing the case, with the observation that Khobragade does not presently enjoy immunity from prosecution for the crimes charged in the indictment.

''The Department of State concludes that Devyani did not enjoy immunity from arrest or detention at the time of her arrest in this case, and she does not presently enjoy immunity from prosecution for the crimes charged in the indictment,'' the January 29 declaration signed by Attorney-Advisor in the Office of the Legal Advisor of the Department of State Stephen Kerr said.

Bharara's office promptly submitted the declaration to the court as part of eight supporting documents aimed at showing that Devyani is not immune from prosecution and that the indictment against her should not be dismissed. The motion came in response to a request made by Devyani's lawyer Daniel Arshack on January 14 that asked the court to dismiss the indictment and terminate any ''open'' arrest warrants or requests for her extradition. Arshack now has time till February 7 to file his reply to the government's motion.

''The US Attorney is again wrong on the facts and the law. The court will decide these issues.'' Arshack said, soon after Bharara's deputies Kristy Greenberg and Amanda Kramer filed a 22-page memorandum on Friday.

While some diplomats maintained that the to-and-fro was part of the legal skirmish that was only to be expected, others saw dark forebodings over the State Department's legal sanction to proceed with the case despite efforts to defuse the situation on the diplomatic front. {Some people I know are literally shocked by the hostile language}

Riding on the State Department legal advisor's declaration, Bharara said the US government has ''unequivocally concluded'' that Devyani did not employ her domestic worker Sangeeta Richard in her capacity as Deputy Consul General and so does not enjoy immunity from prosecution for the ''crimes'' for which she was arrested in December.

''The acts giving rise to the charges in the indictment were not performed in Devyani's exercise of her functions as a member of the mission both because they were performed well before her assignment to the Permanent Mission of India to the UN and because the hiring of Richard was not an official act,'' Bharara said, quoting the declaration.

Moreover, he maintained, Khobragade's attempts through her motion ''to concoct a theory of immunity out of a UNGA 'Blue Card' that she purportedly had for a brief Indian delegation visit to the UN that ended close to three months before her arrest...fails both factually and legally...''

The State Department's legalistic position, enabling what some Indian interlocutors see as Bharara's provocative language (which in effect accused the Government of India of ''concocting'' immunity for Khobragade), when New Delhi insists she had immunity all along, has caused much heartburn in diplomatic circles with talk of blowback. {I said something similar too in my brf post}

While some mandarins cautioned that one should not conflate strategic ties with day-to-day bureaucratic and legal battles, others suggested that it was inevitable that the spat on the law-and-order side would spill over to the strategic turf.

Even former US diplomats who have served previously in India are surprised that the political wing in the State Department has allowed legal and security personnel to call the shots. One former US diplomat said it was inconceivable that this could have happened without the sanction of the highest level at the State Department (Secretary of State John Kerry) and the U.S ambassador to New Delhi (Nancy Powell).

[UlanBatori]

I had a Korean co-denizen back in my PIGS dins, an absolutely mild, nice guy. Used to feed his yak every week or 2 weeks at the yak-feeding station nearby, in downtown Ulan Bator. That was all that he ever used his credit card (probably a gas company card) for. So he didn't notice that one day the attendant had given him the wrong card back (multiple yaks being fed at the same time..). He fed his yak, handed the card to the attendant, the attendant said wait a minute, next thing u know the Eye Ess Eye was dragging our herrow off to jail. He got out on bail, and court date was set. It was only as he was actually going to court that he told us what was happening.. we sort of panicked and set off after him. Need not have worried. Hizzoner (or Heronner) asked him if he knew the seriousness of the charges facing him. Then s(he) appointed a State pro-bono lawyer for him. And she chose with great care. Unlike other "plea-bargain" types, this lawyer was good. S(he) sent a kind note to the yak-feeding station, letting them know that s(he) was filing fraud, false arrest, libel, damages and punitive damages against them for the atrocities caused to an innocent customer by their yak-feeding station. Owner was on his knees b4 our Herrow in no time at all, charges dropped immediately...

Which brings us to the famous saying on the British show "Yes Minister":

When u have them by the ****s, their hearts and minds will follow

So I have not lost faith in HerOnner. She has so far done EXACTLY what the PB demanded, without comment. First PB demanded speed, so she rejected DK's (ill-advised, IMHO, because there was no good faith on SD side) move to delay to give time for SD to grow sense. She pointed out accurately that such delay would not serve the defendant's cause. Now she has denied DK's request to EXPEDITE matters, because now PB wanted to delay for 2 weeks, this time with no comment at all. Now let's see what she really thinks of the facts in the case.

[Vayutuvan]

Whether PB is "stupid and arrogant" is a non-issue. I have no idea about him and his past and current cases an all that. Also there is no use to bring in emotive issues like DK's reputation and such. I don't think that would weigh in any way in the decision making process of the judge in this case. What happens next, civil cases and even criminal cases brought by DK on PBN, and South NY district, and DoJ and possibly USSD thrown in is of no concern at this point.

Might very well happen. If DK is innocent and is awarded multi-million $ restitution the US citizens will foot the bill and correctly so IMHO. The buck stops with the tax-payers, not the POTUS contrary to what a famous former GOTUS said in the past. Of course, we have to accept that the democrazy/republic in US is truly a representative democracy/republic. If not, then everybody who played by the rules is a loser.

"Over and out" till the next event.

[chaanakya]

chaankya:

If PB is pressing forward and pursuing and accusing that DK had mis-treated SR. HJe can do it as USSD had given the go-ahead saying that there is no immunity. Legally speaking, can he ask for the case to be dropped at this stage?

No , He can't. That is why I am holding the position that it is State Dept of USG which is primarily driving this issue. They are the authority to advise and hold the position on Immunity status of DK.

The entire case depends on few things

1. Status of DK and her immunity : She was accredited as DCG having Consular Immunity while serving in NYC. On the day of arrest she was acting CG. She was also on the role of Indian Mission to UN as Special Adviser having full immunity. At the time of arrest she did insist on her immunity status. India by transferring her to Permanent Mission of India to UN only ensured that she would get out of US safe and sound and thus further blackmail by US authorities would not occur at least in DK case.

Now Court has to decide first on her immunity status before proceeding further. PB has to contest it because USD has opined , so essentially he can not drop the case.

Second point related to that to be ruled is if IBDA on official passport is covered under local laws and minimum wages. I think DK lawyer has , perhaps, not much focused on this aspect. VCCR provisions are clear that Members of household, not being relative, are also to be accorded same privileges and exempt from local laws as long as they don't engage in commercial employment. SR was on official passport and was not allowed to engage in commercial activities though she had asked for it.

Now India hold the position that IBDAs are exempt under VCCR and USG do not agree to this view and this is something court might not decide. Needs to be worked out between Govts.

2. Visa Fraud: It is the first charge. Once case is past Immunity claims, Visa fraud has to be proved. As per my understanding , DS160 forms are filed electronically and interview is scheduled by the applicant. He/She has to present all relevant papers along with duly signed form DS160. (S)he has to appear alone before VO and answer all the questions. Once VO is satisfied VISa is given only after further internal verification in case of A-1, A-2 and A-3 Visa and not merely on issuance of Note Verbale.

Here DK is alleged to have filed the form on behalf of SR from her computer as the same IP address is recorded for Visa forms of DK and SR.

It is also known that SR was working with DK on trial basis and DK agreed to take her only after she was satisfied with Sr performance as Housekeeper and Childcare giver. She could very well have access to Dk computer for filing her DS160. This point of PB is tenuous.

If it can not be pinned on DK then the charge of Visa fraud may not stand. There are two sub points in this. First one is wrong entry of $4500 and there is much ambiguity as Dk lawyer mentions. Second point is the second contract which is explained by DK lawyer as sum being paid in India. Read together with Statement of Expenditure on SR /Payment to SR by Dk this point might not hold water.

3. The Second charge is making false statement. It is regarding $4500 which is neither the her salary nor what she proposed to give. She also did not pay the minimum wages as promised. Second contract is intended to prove that she was instrumental in making false statement leading to grant of A-3 Visa.

It is interesting to note that it is DSS Special Agent of BDS of USD( Mark Moron Smith) who has taken up the investigation and filed the indictment leading to arrest of DK. PB comes at the stage of opening and filing of sealed indictment seeking arrest warrant. I may not like PB but if I was in his position I would have to do the same. And therefore,If court rules that She has immunity then nothing further survives else it will proceed to arraignment ( Charge-sheeting the accused in CrPC Terminology)and trial at a later stage and PB has to pilot it. I suspect that he is basking in his often found media glare and attention but it is to distrat us from the fact that neither Nisa Biswal not PB are the driving force , it is USD ( Kerrorist as some would say) and something deeper. Somewhere India has denied something that US wanted badly and/or simultaneously USD has failed to recruit DK as agent in place and/or SR was discovered or was sleeper agent used to torpedo and teach India a lesson through DK arrest. If nothing else was there, perhaps, no arrest would have taken place in such humiliating manner.

[Amber G.]

A valid question asked by one report which was talking about DK and India's response.. Hope GOI learns from all this and applies these learning to these situations also:

Link:‘Nannygate’ reaction ignores the Indian elephant in the room

<snip a lot of stuff which has already been discussed ..>

...... Between July and November 2013, more than 130,000 Indian labourers in Saudi Arabia (of 2.8 million expatriate Indians there) were forced to leave by a new “Nitaqat” (classification) policy and tougher migrant labour laws.

Allegations emerged of Indian embassy officials demanding bribes from the workers for providing basic consular services. This caused not a murmur of protest in India.

....

In December 2013, a riot erupted in Singapore’s Little India district. Around 400 Indian workers, mainly employed in the construction industry, were said to have been involved. About 28 were charged with rioting, more than 50 were deported and more than 3000 workers across the city were informally questioned.

Singaporean law does not require immediate legal representation during interrogation, which makes consular vigilance and assistance all the more crucial. Questions were asked by Singaporean rights activists about the possible underlying causes of the riots; concerns were raised about the workers’ living conditions; allegations were made about employers routinely deducting workers’ salaries to pay off company levies. The Singapore riots received the bare minimum attention in India.
...

Hope DK teaches us all ...

[UlanBatori]

Have u considered the possibility that the SD legal dept may be populated by former City of Atlanta / State of GA Emergency Preparedness Experts? (Promoted up from the 2011 snowflake sighting edition, not the recent one). I mean, ppl may be giving waaay too much credit to folks who may be just plain Eeg-Nora_musses as the Cracker Barrel MindGame says. And once they are caught as muggers, they do what any red-meat-eating meat-headed *merican would do: cover up, bluff and bluster. I mean, look at Gov. Christie. or Slick Willie after the M*nic* Lewdinsky disclothessures.

[Vayutuvan]

No , He can't.

WHere have been, my man? He can and he did. As to the other point that SD is the driving point, yes, that is what I had been saying all along. It is in their hands to resolve the issue. As far as PB is concerned, my g uess is that he is not a specialist in international law and his position doesn't call for it. Since UN HQ is in NYC and he had to deal with those issues might require him to have some attorneys whose specialization is International Law. They still would be subservient to USSD's oversight.

By the way, what is the status of the summons served on the President of Congress Party to appear in NYC court in connection with the 1984 riots in New Delhi? What was the deadline? I haven't seen any news regarding the status of that case. Has it been dropped by the NYC Sikh body?

[chaanakya]

WHere have been, my man? He can and he did. As to the other point that SD is the driving point, yes, that is what I had been saying all along. It is in their hands to resolve the issue. As far as PB is concerned, my g uess is that he is not a specialist in international law and his position doesn't call for it. Since UN HQ is in NYC and he had to deal with those issues might require him to have some attorneys whose specialization is International Law. They still would be subservient to USSD's oversight.

By the way, what is the status of the summons served on the President of Congress Party to appear in NYC court in connection with the 1984 riots in New Delhi? What was the deadline? I haven't seen any news regarding the status of that case. Has it been dropped by the NYC Sikh body?

I think you misunderstood. I was answering the question part of your Statement.

Legally speaking, can he ask for the case to be dropped at this stage?

No he can't.

I should have been more clear.

[Amber G.]

Have u considered the possibility that the SD legal dept may be populated by former City of Atlanta / State of GA Emergency Preparedness Experts?

I am sure it is just a coincidence but they tell me that abbba-jaan of the undersecretary of democracy (and patron of DUI's abba-jaan) seem to have made this great city his home at one time, when he immigrated from Pakistan...

[chaanakya]

By the way, what is the status of the summons served on the President of Congress Party to appear in NYC court in connection with the 1984 riots in New Delhi? What was the deadline? I haven't seen any news regarding the status of that case. Has it been dropped by the NYC Sikh body?

Summons are yet to be legally served on SoGa. At least that is what her lawyer claimed in the court. Not tracking this but Sikh Body has not dropped the case.

[UlanBatori]

You think THAT might be the rage behind this at PB's office? Stranger things have happened..

[Amber G.]

Another typical feather in PB's cap... From WSJ oped:
Link: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 1348242380

Even expelling Ms Khobragade would have been less inflammatory than arresting her. And if an arrest was unavoidable, it's still hard to justify treating a diplomat in a wage dispute like a Colombian drug lord,”

[A_Gupta]

Desire to serve Rahul Gandhi with sub-poena:
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/sikh-rights- ... 856-2.html
Sikhs for Justice (SFJ) is the group.

Preet Bharara is in the NY Southern District Federal Court.
This SFJ case is in the NY Eastern District Federal Court.

The last news about the Sonia Gandhi summons:
http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... nia-gandhi

[UlanBatori]

The group said it will subpoena Gandhi "as a witness before New York federal court in the pending 1984 Sikh rights violation lawsuit."

Seems far-fetched even for the Bray of PiBs
Was he even born then? Old enough to read? Think? How about now?
How can he know anything about this of his own knowledge, not hearsay? Anyway, how can a US court have any jurisdiction in this?

[A_Gupta]

The group said it will subpoena Gandhi "as a witness before New York federal court in the pending 1984 Sikh rights violation lawsuit."

Seems far-fetched even for the Bray of PiBs
Was he even born then? Old enough to read? Think? How about now?
How can he know anything about this of his own knowledge, not hearsay? Anyway, how can a US court have any jurisdiction in this?

The Sonia Gandhi case is before the Eastern District of NY federal court.
https://www.nyed.uscourts.gov/

Bray of P belongs to the Southern District.
http://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/

The legal (de)merits of the case against Sonia:
http://jaideepprabhu.org/2013/09/04/sik ... ia-gandhi/

PS: if one is willing to give a credit card and pay $0.10 per retrieved page, you can get court documents regarding any US Federal Court case here.
https://www.pacer.gov/psco/cgi-bin/regform.pl
For the record, I am not so willing.

[member_28434]

A_Gupta:

Exactly.

http://mindbodypolitic.com/2014/01/19/s ... e-reports/

"

In Nanny-gate, an analysis of the time-line of events (see below) suggests that Sikhs For Justice was acting in concert with the US court system in New York and with the NGO behind the nanny, Safe-Horizon, also based in New York."

Also:

NEWS REPORT: Sikhs for Justice files suit against Congress over the killing of Sikhs in 1984 on May 30, 2011, in the Southern Dt of NY, where Bharara is the US attorney.

The US State Department writes to the Indian Ambassador to investigate the Richard case; asks for proof of minimum wages paid. Sept 4, 2013.

NEWS REPORT: SIKHS FOR JUSTICE files a class-action suit in NY Federal Court against the Congress and Akali Dal, Sept 5, 2013

SFJ accuses Congress of protecting those guilty of extra-judicial killings in 1984. A summons is issued to Sonia Gandhi when she lands in NY for medical treatment.

On Sept 10, the Indian Ministry of External Affairs lodges a strong protest at the tone of the US letter.

And this:

On Jan. 10, Indian expels Wayne May, the chief of the Bureau of Diplomatic Security (in charge of 424 security officers, marines, police officers, and agents, including CIA) in New Delhi, for conniving in the flight of Philip Richard and his two children from India on a T-3 trafficking visa, in violation of the Indian high court order, and in violation of Indian tax laws. May’s wife, a community officer, has posted racially charged and offensive remarks about India on Facebook.

Sikhs for Justice urges Kerry to suspend India from the domestic visa program, Jan 10, 2014

Sikhs For Justice, a pro-Khalistani group based in NY, wants Indian govt condemned for acting against national sovereignty, January 15, 2014

[member_28434]

Also, address of Sikhs for Justice is in NY Greater Metropolitan area and it says it's in the business of counseling. Maybe it counsels "nannies" and puts them in touch with temples that will shelter them?
Anyone living in NY or having good contacts there should check this out.

Sikhs For Justice is located in Ocean Town, New Jersey, part of greater Metropolitan New York.

350 5th Avenue North NY 10118 Tel: 212-601-2707

It lists its activities as counseling and psychologists, not mentioning its radical, separatist agenda.

[Amber G.]

. Now let's see what she [the judge] really thinks of the facts in the case.

Let us help her to think over the few things..(Let us pretend we are the judge).. add points if you see them fit. (I am putting some thoughts of my own and what I have heard read from others)

PB's arguments and supporting SD' memo talk a lot about consular immunity (and acts committed in official duties etc..) so..

- Was DK's role in assisting SR in putting together the visa application documents (assuming DK prepared all of them) within the scope of her official authority as a consular officer ? .
(Note that DK' lawyer does not argue consular official acts at all, He argues only - DK's status as a temporary and then as a permanent member of India's UN mission.) PB devotes a couple of pages to it, but it does not addresses - consular officer's official role in assisting her fellow citizens in passport and visa matters.

2. Was the paperwork correctly done re: DK's status as a temporary member of India's UN mission and for how long was that status accorded ?

3. A letter of 8 Jan 2014 states - (slight paraphrase) (

As of 5:47 pm today, DK has been recorded as a Counselor at the Permanent Mission of India to the United Nations. ..As a Counselor, you are entitled in the territory of the United States to the privileges and immunities of a diplomatic envoy under the terms of Section 15 of the Headquarters Agreement between the United States and the United Nations.

Members of your family who are regularly resident with you, provided they are not citizens of or Permanent Resident Aliens in the United States, also enjoy immunity from the criminal jurisdiction of the United States and immunity from civil and administrative jurisdiction consistent with the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations.

*** If judicial jurisdiction over the diplomat by this court terminated as of US acceptance of that status (5:47 pm, 8 Jan 2014), under what theory of judicial jurisdiction could jurisdiction over DK starts..
(1) if her diplomatic status continued up until she had left USA; and (2) if at no time has she returned to the USA)

For an impartial judge, PB's arguments have big holes - (1) consular immunity based on official acts; and (2) temporary UN diplomatic immunity (see point ***) - he didn't argue (1) and the paperwork that is before the court is not complete on (2).

[Vayutuvan]

.

[Vayutuvan]

Another typical feather in PB's cap... From WSJ oped:
Link: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 1348242380

But the arrest was by the DSS or HSS DHS HDS or sumsuchathang. I thought they are not under PB or are they?