West Asia News and Discussions

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Virendra
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Virendra »

Paul wrote:Israel is looking to me more and more like the doomed kingdom of vijaynagar, powerful and seemingly indestructible but doomed to failure once the islamic states got their ducks in a row.
As of now, Israel is safe.
-- Hamas is over stretched.
-- Syria has been in turmoil for long.
-- Iran is distracted due to Arab-US-Iraqi disturbances.
Singha
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

the refinery has fallen to ISIS overnight per latest reports. The Guardian has a live blog on iraq.

meantime Kerry has landed in Irbil to talk to Kurds and they seem to want their new state now:

twitter image on the guardian blog:
"We are facing a new reality," Kurdish leader Barzani tells Kerry to start meeting. Kurds have gained ground in Iraq, cld seek independence.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by KLNMurthy »

Paul wrote:Looking at the Ralph peters map of the ME, does it not appear that the west knew that Iraq was going to trifurcate into three states as early as the eve of invasion of Iraq. So their predictions are on the dot here. At the very least it is clear that there are thinkers among the neo con thinkers who are as sharp as any in the world.
Joe Biden spoke for this exact trifurcation prior to the 2008 election. He was widely considered the "most knowledgeable" in US circles on the subject of West Asia and Afghanistan.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Paul »

What if egypt other north african states also start falling to the caliphate. Can the west hope to even control the outcome then. Once this spring gathers momentum no telling what will happen. Even india will get sucked in as both sides tap into their faithful to fill up their ranks but this region will remain the fulcrum of action for both sides. Eventually islam will settle this dispute in favor of one over the other (sunnis?) and turn their attention to israel.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Pratyush »

Hmmm........

This is an interesting idea. Who knows, if the Caliphate will meed a violent death. Also , who will be the means to delivering this death.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Paul »

Caliphate is an ideal, not a person. There will always be some one who will be greener then the current green. No wonder AQ is not the greenest green in this season. Not easy to kill the caliphate idea like nazi or ideal as it is not confined to an ethnic group or region.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

if we look at the map of north africa
Egypt - in the hands of the brotherhood briefly, before the army took over, the fight continues...
Libya - is jihadi hands
algeria - ??
morocco - ??

western sahara - mauritania - Mali - chad - niger - sudan - ertirea was the old slaving route along southern edge of sahara through which lakhs of west africans (strong people) were caught and dragged in chains to arabia. NONE of these nations have any form of strong or stable govt or a decent enough population base to form a viable alternative to pure green. Mali has already had a islamist uprising which the french are fighting.

Nigeria just south of it has the boko haram.
Somalia is a basket case. and somali terrorists are moving into kenya and ethiopia to raise hell against christians.

so one can say entire north africa is ALREADY mostly run by the islamists, korrupt generals or islamist proxies.

unlike in the east, there are no strong govt/shia cloud like Iran to resist this overwhelming surge of piety and the rush to prove 101% green and wipe out all other colours. being a armed 'movement' only he who has the biggest gunpower in islam decides how the koran shall be interpreted 8)

the Saif-ul-Islam now stretches in a crescent from the warm waters of the atlantic ocean, through the med/red sea/gulf - arabian sea to the warm waters of the south pacific via indonesia which stops only at Irian jaya(western half of papua new guinea)..ie due north of australia.



Image
Singha
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

the finest human resources of africa were kidnapped and destroyed in the past few centuries leaving the continent in ruins.

http://www.roebuckclasses.com/102/maps/ ... routes.jpg
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Yogi_G »

with all the Sunni-Shia turmoil in west Asia, now is the best time for Modi sarkaar to exploit the wedges between the two groups in India and push in some reform agenda for the community. No Khilafat stuff but definitely some normalization stuff.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

That is if Baghdad can hold out! Increasingly it appears that Iraq will be split into Sunni and Shiite states,the former northern areas supported by the monarchists and sheikdoms,hell bent upon conquering Syria and the southern Shiite half under Iranian protection.The Kurds will have their own enclave which may be recognised by the West upsetting Turkey,but the proxy war will be conducted in Syria.One can almost surely expect in the future Iranian RGs on the ground in the Baghdad ,Shiite half boosting the troops,which will be supported by Russia and China.The US will be left holding the Janus faced monster of ISIS in its hands,supporting Sunni interests in Syria,but upset with its takeover in Iraq!

JoKerry met Maliki who is desperate for air strikes,but Maliki should know that JoKerry couldn't even launch his "indescribably small" strikes against Syria! The US's manhood has thus become "indescribably small" as well! What is a sure certainty is that Maliki is going to be dog's meat sooner rather than later.His days as Iraq's camel driver are numbered. The Jordanians are deeply alarmed too as they will be looked at with beady eyes by the hordes of ungodly ISIS.It is history repeating itself in manner of barbarians at the gates of Rome,this time Baghdad.

Iraq crisis: Fears of partition grow as Islamists seize border crossing with Jordan and sweep towards Baghdad
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 58038.html
The US Secretary of State John Kerry sounded upbeat after a 90-minute meeting with the Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki at the end of which he said: “That was good.” But if Mr Kerry is optimistic about the situation then he is about the only person in Baghdad feeling that way as news comes of fresh rebel victories and of sectarian massacres. Iraq is beginning to resemble India at the time of partition in 1947 when massacres propelled demographic change.

The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis) has swept through the giant, overwhelmingly Sunni province of Anbar west of Baghdad without meeting much resistance. The Iraqi army abandoned the border with Jordan where Sunni tribes took over the Turaibal border crossing on the highway built by Saddam Hussein as a crucial supply route during the Iran-Iraq war. Tribes are negotiating to hand over Turaibal to Isis which captured the two main border crossings to Syria over the weekend. A tribal leader said he was mediating with Isis in a “bid to spare blood and make things safer for the employees of the crossing. We are receiving positive messages from the militants.”

The Jordanian army says its troops have been put in a state of alert in recent days along the 112-mile border with Iraq, to ward off “any potential or perceived security threats” in this scantily inhabited desert area. The Iraqi army spokesman said that troops have redeployed from towns and cities in Anbar for “tactical reasons”.

President Obama and Mr Kerry have called for a genuinely inclusive government with Sunni leaders as well as Shia and Kurds getting a share in power. They have implied that Mr Maliki cannot stay in power if such a government is to be created, but it may already be too late for a power-sharing solution since the Sunni have already displaced the government as the main authority in provinces where they are the majority. The Sunni politicians who met Mr Kerry, the parliament’s Speaker Osama al-Nujaifi and Deputy Prime Minister Saleh al-Mutlaq, have little authority in their own community. Events have passed them by and a bigger role for Sunni politicians like them is unlikely to break the momentum of the revolt.

Iraqi officials say Mr Maliki asked the US to launch air strikes against Isis positions in Iraq and Syria, targeting training camps and convoys. Mr Kerry replied that care had to be taken to avoid civilian casualties. Mr Obama earlier said Mr Maliki and the Iraqi leadership face a test as to whether “they are able to set aside their suspicions, their sectarian preferences for the good of the whole”.

Hopes of a power-sharing government seem out-of-date as Isis closes in on the capital and has made it clear that it does not want to talk to Shia but to kill them or drive them out of Iraq. Isis regards Shia as apostates or heretics who have betrayed the faith and deserve death. Where Shia cannot defend themselves they have fled, in places such as Tal Afar, with a population of 300,000 Shia Turkoman, west of Mosul where fighting is still going on. Isis is primarily an anti-Shia movement in Iraq and Syria, its violent sectarianism so extreme that it was one of the reasons why it was criticised by al-Qa’ida. There are reports the few Shia who lived in Mosul and stayed have been given 24 hours to convert to Sunni Islam or die.

John Kerry met Nouri al-Maliki yesterday; he is said to have asked the US for air strikes on Isis in Iraq and Syria John Kerry met Nouri al-Maliki yesterday; he is said to have asked the US for air strikes on Isis in Iraq and Syria (AP)

Iraq has gone a long way down the road towards a Sunni-Shia sectarian civil war over the last two weeks. In Salahuddin province insurgent fighters helped by local Sunni have advanced to drive out thousands of Shia Turkomans from three villages. “You cannot imagine what happened, only if you saw it could you believe it,” Hassan Ali, a 52-year-old farmer, told AP as he sat in the al-Zahra Shia mosque, which is used to distribute aid in Kirkuk 50 miles to the north. He said: “They hit us with mortars, and the families fled, and they kept hitting us. It was completely sectarian: the Shia out.”

The attacks took place on 16 June in the neighbouring villages of Chardaghli, Brawchi and Karanaz, as well as in a fourth village, Beshir, some 30 miles to the north, refugees told the agency. The aim seems to be to create Shia-free zones in which Isis can establish its fundamentalist Sunni caliphate. Between 15 and 35 villagers were killed and the bodies dumped on the roadside for collection. “They called and said, ‘Send somebody to collect your dogs’,” a policeman from the village said. Survivors say Shia mosques were blown up, their houses burnt and their sheep stolen.

Unlike other massacres of Shia by Isis this one is well-authenticated. The Shia villagers say their Sunni neighbours took part in the attack. The inhabitants of Sunni villages nearby have already fled because they expect revenge attacks by the Shia.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Jarita »

Come what may india should not get involved in the imbroglio in west Asia. We should not be fighting Israel's and trough extension war for some western countries. They all want boots on ground
UlanBatori
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by UlanBatori »

and their sheep stolen
THERE you go! Proof that ISIS is Pakistan Army. The pattern of sexual preferences is unmistakeable.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Murugan »

Syed Akbaruddin ‏@MEAIndia 17m
Heading home! 17 Indians rescued in Iraq from Conflict Zone were brought to Baghdad and now are heading home.
Murugan
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Murugan »

Syed Akbaruddin ‏@MEAIndia 11m
Camp Offices! India sets up Camp Offices of the Embassy in Basra, Karbala and Najaf to assist Indian nationals there.

Media Briefing in Iraq Situ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfWpjCDH ... y8mh8VbzKw
Singha
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

Jordan is probably a softer target for Isis than Baghdad now crawling with veteran shite fighters.

we might see the spectacle of Jordan being defended by Israeli army.

Israel has enough issues with hizbollah...they would be terrified of Isis mobile batallions taking over Jordan or part of Lebanon and making beeline for the soft underbelly of Israel.
ramana
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Looks like Sunni Iraq and Shia Iraq is on its way along with Kurdistan Autonomous Region to assuage Turkish sensitivity.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Muppalla »

ramana wrote:Looks like Sunni Iraq and Shia Iraq is on its way along with Kurdistan Autonomous Region to assuage Turkish sensitivity.
This is the best outcome that will help India in the long term.

The Caliphate in Western/northwestern Iraq instead of AfPak is what the erstwhile ABV led NDA visualized. Probably discussed with Amritraj during op-Parakram (they said take it away from India's horizons). If a Sunni specific thing lives that far away with a Shia power in between, we are kind of isolating the Pakijabis and Pasthuns. On a weak-Uncle-moment if Pastunistan, Sindh and Baluch are created it will be a great time for India.

Even forIraq, the current borders are unnatural. It is basically a Shia country and an extension of Iran and Ajerbizan. If in this process a equal power of Shia and Sunni arises then the world can play the game at their strengths. Milking the needs will become easier.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Prem »

ramana wrote:Looks like Sunni Iraq and Shia Iraq is on its way along with Kurdistan Autonomous Region to assuage Turkish sensitivity.
Turkish demo(Dumus)graphics are changing at fast pace. Kurds will be majority community there in next few decades. And USA has resumed full military aid to Egypt (to contain the expansion of Sunni Caliphate of ISIS)
Prem
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Prem »

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wir ... t-24211370
Saudi King Abdullah will visit Egypt on Friday for the first time since the 2011 uprising, in a show of support for newly-elected President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi, Egyptian officials said Thursday.
The officials said el-Sissi will receive the ailing monarch upon his arrival from Morocco, where he spent time for medical rehabilitation. The visit will be Abdullah's first since the 2011 ouster of Hosni Mubarak, a close ally of both Saudi Arabia and the United States. Saudi Arabia and Egypt have both declared the Muslim Brotherhood, from which Morsi hails, a terrorist organization.The first world leader to congratulate el-Sissi after winning last month's election was King Abdullah, who has been on the throne for nearly a decade and is almost 90. The monarch declared that the turmoil sparked by the Arab Spring should now come to a close."The brotherly Egyptian people have suffered during the past period of chaos. The short-sighted called it 'creative chaos,'" the king said in a letter published by the Saudi state news agency.He called for a donors conference to help Egypt "get out of the tunnel," referring to its wrecked economy.
Philip
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

That is if Baghdad can hold out! Increasingly it appears that Iraq will be split into Sunni and Shiite states,the former northern areas supported by the monarchists and sheikdoms,hell bent upon conquering Syria and the southern Shiite half under Iranian protection.The Kurds will have their own enclave which may be recognised by the West upsetting Turkey,but the proxy war will be conducted in Syria.One can almost surely expect in the future Iranian RGs on the ground in the Baghdad ,Shiite half boosting the troops,which will be supported by Russia and China.The US will be left holding the Janus faced monster of ISIS in its hands,supporting Sunni interests in Syria,but upset with its takeover in Iraq!

JoKerry met Maliki who is desperate for air strikes,but Maliki should know that JoKerry couldn't even launch his "indescribably small" strikes against Syria! The US's manhood has thus become "indescribably small" as well! What is a sure certainty is that Maliki is going to be dog's meat sooner rather than later.His days as Iraq's camel driver are numbered. The Jordanians are deeply alarmed too as they will be looked at with beady eyes by the hordes of ungodly ISIS.It is history repeating itself in manner of barbarians at the gates of Rome,this time Baghdad.

Iraq crisis: Fears of partition grow as Islamists seize border crossing with Jordan and sweep towards Baghdad
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 58038.html
The US Secretary of State John Kerry sounded upbeat after a 90-minute meeting with the Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki at the end of which he said: “That was good.” But if Mr Kerry is optimistic about the situation then he is about the only person in Baghdad feeling that way as news comes of fresh rebel victories and of sectarian massacres. Iraq is beginning to resemble India at the time of partition in 1947 when massacres propelled demographic change.

The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis) has swept through the giant, overwhelmingly Sunni province of Anbar west of Baghdad without meeting much resistance. The Iraqi army abandoned the border with Jordan where Sunni tribes took over the Turaibal border crossing on the highway built by Saddam Hussein as a crucial supply route during the Iran-Iraq war. Tribes are negotiating to hand over Turaibal to Isis which captured the two main border crossings to Syria over the weekend. A tribal leader said he was mediating with Isis in a “bid to spare blood and make things safer for the employees of the crossing. We are receiving positive messages from the militants.”

The Jordanian army says its troops have been put in a state of alert in recent days along the 112-mile border with Iraq, to ward off “any potential or perceived security threats” in this scantily inhabited desert area. The Iraqi army spokesman said that troops have redeployed from towns and cities in Anbar for “tactical reasons”.

President Obama and Mr Kerry have called for a genuinely inclusive government with Sunni leaders as well as Shia and Kurds getting a share in power. They have implied that Mr Maliki cannot stay in power if such a government is to be created, but it may already be too late for a power-sharing solution since the Sunni have already displaced the government as the main authority in provinces where they are the majority. The Sunni politicians who met Mr Kerry, the parliament’s Speaker Osama al-Nujaifi and Deputy Prime Minister Saleh al-Mutlaq, have little authority in their own community. Events have passed them by and a bigger role for Sunni politicians like them is unlikely to break the momentum of the revolt.

Iraqi officials say Mr Maliki asked the US to launch air strikes against Isis positions in Iraq and Syria, targeting training camps and convoys. Mr Kerry replied that care had to be taken to avoid civilian casualties. Mr Obama earlier said Mr Maliki and the Iraqi leadership face a test as to whether “they are able to set aside their suspicions, their sectarian preferences for the good of the whole”.

Hopes of a power-sharing government seem out-of-date as Isis closes in on the capital and has made it clear that it does not want to talk to Shia but to kill them or drive them out of Iraq. Isis regards Shia as apostates or heretics who have betrayed the faith and deserve death. Where Shia cannot defend themselves they have fled, in places such as Tal Afar, with a population of 300,000 Shia Turkoman, west of Mosul where fighting is still going on. Isis is primarily an anti-Shia movement in Iraq and Syria, its violent sectarianism so extreme that it was one of the reasons why it was criticised by al-Qa’ida. There are reports the few Shia who lived in Mosul and stayed have been given 24 hours to convert to Sunni Islam or die.

John Kerry met Nouri al-Maliki yesterday; he is said to have asked the US for air strikes on Isis in Iraq and Syria John Kerry met Nouri al-Maliki yesterday; he is said to have asked the US for air strikes on Isis in Iraq and Syria (AP)

Iraq has gone a long way down the road towards a Sunni-Shia sectarian civil war over the last two weeks. In Salahuddin province insurgent fighters helped by local Sunni have advanced to drive out thousands of Shia Turkomans from three villages. “You cannot imagine what happened, only if you saw it could you believe it,” Hassan Ali, a 52-year-old farmer, told AP as he sat in the al-Zahra Shia mosque, which is used to distribute aid in Kirkuk 50 miles to the north. He said: “They hit us with mortars, and the families fled, and they kept hitting us. It was completely sectarian: the Shia out.”

The attacks took place on 16 June in the neighbouring villages of Chardaghli, Brawchi and Karanaz, as well as in a fourth village, Beshir, some 30 miles to the north, refugees told the agency. The aim seems to be to create Shia-free zones in which Isis can establish its fundamentalist Sunni caliphate. Between 15 and 35 villagers were killed and the bodies dumped on the roadside for collection. “They called and said, ‘Send somebody to collect your dogs’,” a policeman from the village said. Survivors say Shia mosques were blown up, their houses burnt and their sheep stolen.

Unlike other massacres of Shia by Isis this one is well-authenticated. The Shia villagers say their Sunni neighbours took part in the attack. The inhabitants of Sunni villages nearby have already fled because they expect revenge attacks by the Shia.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by A_Gupta »

Declassified documents show a different picture of ISIS:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/06/23/4 ... mists.html
The militant group Baghdadi inherited had in place a sophisticated bureaucracy that was almost obsessive about record-keeping. Its middle-managers detailed, for example, the number of wives and children each fighter had, to gauge compensation rates upon death or capture, and listed expenditures in neat Excel spreadsheets that noted payments to an “assassination platoon” and “Al Mustafa Explosives Company.” Income from the Sunni Muslim militants’ looting of Shiite Muslim-owned property was recorded as “spoils.”
Insurgent records suggest that the United States will find it difficult to rout an organization whose structure and attention to detail allowed it to prosper even during the toughest U.S. counterterrorism efforts of the last decade. U.S. officials believed, incorrectly, that the group had been vanquished
.
The documents also challenge popular narratives about the group, including that Saudi Arabia and other Persian Gulf countries were key contributors to the birth of ISIS _ a claim that Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki recently repeated. In fact, the intercepted documents show, outside donations amounted to only a tiny fraction _ no more than 5 percent _ of the group’s operating budgets from 2005 until 2010, when Baghdadi took over after the deaths of two superiors.
Another widely held belief that’s refuted by the financial records is that Iraqi recruits flocked to the Islamic State for higher wages and steady jobs because they couldn’t make ends meet in Iraq’s war-ravaged economy. In the years for which financial records are available, the average Islamic State foot soldier earned a base salary of just $41 a month, far lower than blue-collar Iraq jobs such as a bricklayer making $150 a month, according to Johnston’s comparisons.

The low pay is even more striking against the background of the risk these new members incurred. In Anbar in 2005 and 2006, Islamic State fighters were 47 times more likely to die than the general population of men ages 18 to 48, according to the RAND analysis. The conclusions echo what counterterrorism experts have long suspected: that members are so ideologically driven that economic incentives to stop the flow of fighters aren’t likely to have much impact.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 25 Jun 2014 07:00, edited 1 time in total.
UlanBatori
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by UlanBatori »

ISIS leaders take on the immortality of Pakiban leaders: reported killed once every 90 days
On Monday, a spokesman for Iraq's counterterrorism service told CNN that two senior ISIS figures -- an Algerian militant named Abu Omar al-Baghdadi and Abu Hafsa, the self-styled governor of Tikrit -- were killed late Monday in airstrikes in Tikrit, the hometown of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.

The spokesman, Sabah Al-Nouman, offered no evidence of the deaths.

CNN cannot independently confirm any of the claims.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by chanakyaa »

WTI Crude Spikes Higher:....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-2 ... export-ban
It is unclear for now what the catalyst for the $1.70 spike in oil prices is but WTI just touched $107.50 in a hurry. It appears a combination of a WSJ story reporting the Obama administration has quietly cleared the way for the first exports of unrefined American oil in four decades, allowing energy companies to chip away at the long-standing ban on selling U.S. crude overseas (which could theoretically enable them to buy crude -bid price up- and sell for higher prices abroad as we show below);
(bigger image in the article linked above)
Image
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

Great concept for dismembering...Oooops!,Sorry,"redrawing" the borders of Pakistan too.We could finance the Pakiban to take control of the northern tribal areas and the "Poonjab",with the south and Sindh a second state and Baluchistan the third.The "holy jewels" of Pak,are not the Iraqi oilfields however but the nuclear installations.These can be effectively destroyed by the international community in concerted effort.

How strange too that we are witnessing two states break up,Ukraine and Iraq,though for different reasons.
The common factor appears to be outside interference in their internal affairs.The US/EU in UKR and the Saudis/Gulfers in Iraq.Both states ruled by puppet leaders with fascist,racist,streaks.The Kiev clique on the one hand and the Maliki regime on the other.Just as the Crimea has been lost and the east in UKR is going to end up autonomous in the least and independent eventually,so too in Iraq has the Kurdish zone been lost and the rest of the country being divided "north and south",as UKR is being divided "east and west".The little Russian Transdniestria enclave in neighbour Moldova adjacent to Odessa also wants to break free ,just as ISIS fights to capture parts of Syria.

The silver lining in the UKR crisis is that in Putin,there is a hard-headed pragmatic leader who wants autonomy in the pro-Russian region,not independence and no expansion of NATO to its borders and EU twinning in the east.Whereas in Iraq,ISIS is totally fanatic,nothing but a barbaric horde of swine, butchering their enemies and hapless Shiites.That they are supported by the Saudis,Kuwaitis,Qataris,ad nauseum,bum-chums of the US is simply appalling.The hypocrisy of the US and its flunkeys stands totally exposed with duplicitous policies in Syria and Iraq.The inability of the US to influence both theatres of conflict is a damning indictment of the utter bankruptcy of US foreign policy and its general "retreat" across the globe.Pax Americana,RIP.


Iraq crisis: Kurds winning the battle for self-rule as country disintegrates

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 60704.html

John Kerry, the US Secretary of State, has urged Kurdish leaders to stand with Baghdad in the face of a Sunni Arab revolt but the Kurds appear to have concluded that Iraq is finished as a unitary state.

On the battlefront, the attacks of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis) have slowed but government forces do not look as if they can regain lost territory. “We are facing a new reality and a new Iraq,” said Kurdish President Masoud Barzani at the start of his meeting with Mr Kerry in Iraqi Kurdistan. Earlier, he had blamed “the wrong policies” of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki’s for the violence and called for him to go, saying it was “very difficult” to imagine Iraq staying together.

The Kurds used the opportunity presented by the Isis assault and the disintegration of the Iraqi army in northern Iraq to take over territories disputed with the Arabs in Kirkuk, Nineveh, Salahuddin and Diyala provinces. This is a broad swath of land which is either populated by Kurds or from which Kurds say they were ethnically cleansed by Saddam Hussein and his predecessors. This includes the oilfields of Kirkuk and newly discovered oil or gas fields.

Mr Barzani is in a strong position because his Peshmerga soldiers are the most coherent military force in Iraq as the Iraqi army fails to stop Isis and its allies. It is clear that Isis is not treating the Peshmerga as its main enemy at the moment; though there have been clashes here populations are mixed along what used to be called the “trigger line” running from east of Baghdad on the Iranian frontier to the north-east corner of Syria. The battle for self-determination by the Iraqi Kurds seems close to being won as the Iraqi state founders and is in no position to prevent Kurdish independence. In an interview with CNN, Mr Barzani repeated a threat to hold a referendum on independence, saying it was time for Kurds to decide their own fate.

It is unlikely that Baghdad will in future control much in the Sunni provinces, though its security forces are still fighting to hold part of Baiji refinery after receiving reinforcements by air. Militants launched an attack on one of the government’s largest air bases, known to the Americans as “Camp Anaconda”, less than 65 miles from the capital. The UN says that 1,065 Iraqis were killed in June, but admits that the real figure may be much higher.

Military changes on the ground are outpacing Mr Kerry’s attempt to coax into being a new Iraqi government without Mr Maliki and led by people who can reunite the country. But the moment when this could be done may have already have passed since Baghdad no longer rules much of Iraq to the north and west of the capital. Its national army of 350,000 soldiers is demonstrably not prepared to fight for Iraq as a nation state. The reliance of Mr Maliki on purely Shia militias emphasises that the rump of the Iraqi state can only be defended by sectarian forces – even though Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani and the Shia leader Muqtada al-Sadr have denied that there is a Shia levée en masse.

For the moment, the Iranians do not want Mr Maliki to be removed on the grounds that this is an American attempt to replace a pro-Iranian prime minister with a pro-American one. The Kurds will probably go a certain distance to accommodate the US. “If they decide to withdraw from the Baghdad political process it will accelerate a lot of the negative trends,” said a senior State Department official.

Mr Kerry said Iraqi leaders must “produce the broad-based, inclusive government that all the Iraqis … are demanding”. But the Kurds, Sunni and Shia of Iraq appear to be fast going their different ways.

[quote]

Who listens to JoKerry now?

Jarita
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Jarita »

Who listens to JoKerry now?
His plastic surgeon. A bit too much if I may say so
UlanBatori
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by UlanBatori »

Surprised that ppl missed this gem:
Fearing for their fellow community members and the Indians that are trapped in the violence-affected region, the All India Shia Hussaini Fund, based in Lucknow, has requested fellow Shia members to sign up and go to Iraq to secure their release. Syed Hasan Mehdi, the secretary of the organisation, tells Rediff.com Vicky Nanjappa how the ISIS is a blemish on Islam and will soon be targeting Kashmir. He also informs that 5,000 Shias and 162 Hindus have signed up for the rescue mission and are ready to lay down their lives.
I think the govt should give them passports and tickets to Eyerak. Plus a few AK-47s and AK-56s captured from Pakis/Khalistanis. 8)
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

>> There are reports the few Shia who lived in Mosul and stayed have been given 24 hours to convert to Sunni Islam or die.

who does one convert between these camps...is there a quran certified procedure or just killing a few shia is enough as a initiation rite?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Vikas »

^ So a Muslim can convert to Islam. Malasi never ceases to amaze me.
Maybe it involves taking oath of allegiance towards KSA and Kings of Al Saud.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Vikas »

Isn't Jordan already a Sunni country in the camp of KSA.
Why would ISIS try to open one more front against Jordan when they can run over most of the Iraq. Wouldn't better option be to set their eyes on big Satan, the source of all Kuffar, the devil that is Eye-ran ? If Iran can be vanquished, Sunni Islam would rule from one end of Asia to almost borders of Andalusia.
If Iran falls, Afghanistan too would automatically fall to Sunni Taliban and then they can focus on the prize jewel - India.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

The king would have to pay a very heavy tribute to ISIS to remain untouched.Perhaps his Saudi and Gulfie monarchs will plead on his behalf.Syria is the first target,Lebanon next,but the prize of Jerusalem is evermost in the minds of the faithful jihadis,along with the destruction of Israel.The name of the outfit,ISIL,"L" for the Levant indicates its ambitions. The Sunnis know how Ayatollah Khomeini inspired his Iranians to fight Saddam.ISIS would have to deal with the entire Shiite population of Iraq as well.They will look for easier pickings.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

Something on these lines:
priest to all willing public: Repeat after me: As I am a Shia who has come under duress and budgetary crunches, I may be considered a Sunni for temporary purposes. I fully endorse meritocracy and am not after dynastic considerations alone. Next re-certification due after 6months. Now, you may kiss the bride... I mean, you may put all donations in the box

<< Grant conversion certificate and in special cases where name is Shia based, change of name recommended.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

the jordanian royal family will definitely fail the ISIS test. the king is westernized and educated in massachusetts pvt school, loves the good life, does not keep a long beard and probably does not pray the required 26 times daily.

his queen Rania al-abdullah is one of the most beautiful ladies in the world they say and no burqa, that would be frowned upon in the ISIS

the best way to get to lebanon to fight hezbollah and then israel is through jordan. the part of syria near lebanon is in hands of Assad govt.

ISIS already controls all border crossing into jordan via its sunni allies...they can move there anytime they want.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

I am expecting a lull in fighting as
- ISIS ethnically cleans and pacifies pockets of resistance in its new lands, all shias will be sent marching as refugees to baghdad to further increase the Govt headache
- the kurds will likely declare statehood, with tacit US blessing , ISIS will likely keep clear and avoid antagonizing them
- fresh supplies of men and materials are brought in to increase the tempo of the war
- daily parades in Sadr city, karbala etc by shia militias
- the broken divisions of iraq army and volunteers in camps like Taji are worked into shape by instructors

it all depends what both sides want..are they ok with a partition and will stabilize the de-facto N-S border, or does either party want 100% of iraq...that will determine fighting..how will the three parties share the N-S oil and gas routes - the kurds have most of the oil and gas fields, the sunnis now sit on the major refinery and the shias control the N-S E-W pipelines and ports on the coast of iraq and lebanon :rotfl:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ucture.png
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

lament of a crusader knight during the disastrous seventh crusade:
Rage and sorrow are seated in my heart...so firmly that I scarce dare to stay alive. It seems that God wishes to support the Turks to our loss...ah, lord God...alas, the realm of the East has lost so much that it will never be able to rise up again. They will make a Mosque of Holy Mary's convent, and since the theft pleases her Son, who should weep at this, we are forced to comply as well...Anyone who wishes to fight the Turks is mad, for Jesus Christ does not fight them any more. They have conquered, they will conquer. For every day they drive us down, knowing that God, who was awake, sleeps now, and Muhammad waxes powerful
---
The defeat of the crusaders and the capture of Louis IX in Fariskur created shock in France. The crusaders were circulating false information in Europe, claiming that King Louis IX defeated the Sultan of Egypt in a great battle and that Cairo had been betrayed into his hands.[25][26] When the news of the French defeat reached France an hysterical movement called the Shepherds' Crusade occurred in France.[27]
Louis IX was ransomed for 400,000 dinars. After he pledged not to return to Egypt again and surrendered Damietta to the Egyptians, he was allowed to leave on May 8, 1250 to Acre with his brothers and 12,000 war prisoners, including some from older battles, who the Egyptians agreed to release. Many other prisoners were executed.[28][29]

Louis's queen, Marguerite de Provence, suffered from nightmares. The news (the capture of her husband Louis) terrified her so much, that every time she fell asleep, she fancied that her room was filled with Saracens, and she would cry out, "Help! help!"

---
so king louis getting roundly defeated set off a real convulsion back in france led by the usual mystic who claims to have received higher orders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherds%27_Crusade,_1251 :rotfl:
and as usual after a period of aimless chaos they started to attack jews as a soft target!

One of the outpourings of support took the form of a peasant movement in northern France, led by a man known only as "the Master of Hungary."[2] He was apparently a very old Hungarian monk living in France.

The Master claimed to have been visited by the Virgin Mary, who instructed him to lead the shepherds[3] of France to the Holy Land to rescue Louis. His followers, said to number 60,000, were mostly young peasants, men, women, and children, from Brabant, Hainaut, Flanders, and Picardy. They followed him to Paris in May, where the Master met with Blanche of Castile. Matthew Paris thought he was an imposter, and that he was actually one of the leaders of the Children's Crusade from earlier in the century.[4] Their movement in the city was restricted; they were not allowed to cross to the Left Bank, where the University of Paris was located, as Blanche perhaps feared another disturbance related to the University of Paris strike of 1229.

Dispersal[edit]
In any case, the crowd of shepherds split up after leaving the city. Some of them went to Rouen, where they expelled the archbishop and threw some priests into the Seine river. In Tours they attacked monasteries. The others under the Master arrived in Orléans on June 11. Here they were denounced by the bishop, whom they also attacked, along with other clerics, including Franciscans and Dominicans. They fought with the university students in the city as well, as Blanche might have feared would happen in Paris. Moving on to Amiens, and then Bourges, they also began to attack Jews.

Blanche responded by ordering the crowds to be rounded up and excommunicated. This was done rather easily as they were simply wandering, directionless, around northern France, but the group led by the Master resisted outside Bourges, and the Master himself was killed in the ensuing skirmish.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

^^ reg the baiku baiju refinery, I read a few hours ago that ISIS asked sunni tribes to keep it running to take care of their gasoline needs. whatever that means. More Humvees and jeeps etc etc? perhaps will reduce transaction costs and such. Who does consulting for ISIS?

Seems impressive. looks like they have been maintaining elaborate financing details, invoices, payroll etc etc.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by krishnan »

their troops look very well eqped too, almost like professional army
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by harbans »

When we deal with Arabs, we must never forget their instincts. This is what happened a few hundred years ago..26/11 kind redux:
Versova is originally a small fishing village of the Kolis, situated to the north of the old Mumbai city.The original name of the village is "Vesave", which derives from the Marathi word for "rest" (as in resting place). In 1694, a fleet of Arabs from Muscat landed in Versova and massacred every person they could find in the village. The village is mentioned in the writings of Gemelli Careri in 1695.
:shock:

We do tend to be at times rightfully aggressive in our approach of seeking apologies from the West for their transgressions, but we need to start doing so from Arabs as well as Islamics.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by SSridhar »

Singha wrote:>> There are reports the few Shia who lived in Mosul and stayed have been given 24 hours to convert to Sunni Islam or die.

who does one convert between these camps...is there a quran certified procedure or just killing a few shia is enough as a initiation rite?
The only way to become a Muslim is to recite the Kalima, "La Ilaah'aa Il' Alla'h, Muhammad al rasollullah", which a Shi'a would have already done. So, there is no more room for conversion. That's why Sunnis resort to 'final solution' in these matters. The 24-hour deadline, if at all given, is a ruse to justify whatever action they would take (or have already taken) by putting the blame squarely on the victims for refusing to convert.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by SSridhar »

Weak military leaves Iraq's government with few options - AP
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is ready to concede, at least temporarily, the loss of much of Iraq to Sunni insurgents and is instead deploying the military’s best-trained and equipped troops to defend Baghdad, Iraqi officials said Tuesday.

Shiite militias responding to a call to arms by Iraq’s top cleric are also focused on protecting the capital and Shiite shrines, while Kurdish fighters have grabbed a long-coveted oil-rich city outside their self-ruled territory, ostensibly to defend it from the al-Qaida breakaway group.

With Iraq’s bitterly divided sects focused on self-interests, the situation on the ground is increasingly looking like the fractured state the Americans have hoped to avoid.


“We are facing a new reality and a new Iraq,” the top Kurdish leader, Massoud Barzani, told U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry on Tuesday in Irbil, capital of the self-ruled Kurdish region in northern Iraq.

Two weeks after a series of disastrous battlefield setbacks in the north and west, al-Maliki is struggling to devise an effective strategy to repel the relentless advances by militants of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, a well-trained and mobile force thought to have some 10,000 fighters inside Iraq. The response by government forces has so far been far short of a counteroffensive, restricted mostly to areas where Shiites are in danger of falling prey to the Sunni extremists or around a major Shiite shrine north of Baghdad.

These weaknesses were highlighted when the government tried but failed to retake Tal Afar, a mixed Shiite-Sunni city of around 200,000 that sits strategically near the Syrian border. The government claimed it had retaken parts of the city but the area remains under the control of the militants after a battle in which some 30 volunteers and troops were killed.

Government forces backed by helicopter gunships have also fought for a week to defend Iraq’s largest oil refinery in Beiji, north of Baghdad, where a top military official said Tuesday that Sunni militants were regrouping for another push to capture the sprawling facility.

In the face of militant advances that have virtually erased Iraq’s western border with Syria and captured territory on the frontier with Jordan, al-Maliki’s focus has been the defense of Baghdad, a majority Shiite city of 7 million fraught with growing tension. The city’s Shiites fear they could be massacred and the revered al-Kazimiyah shrine destroyed if Islamic State fighters capture Baghdad. Sunni residents also fear the extremists, as well as Shiite militiamen in the city, who they worry could turn against them.

The militants have vowed to march to Baghdad and the holy Shiite cities of Najaf and Karbala, a threat that prompted the nation’s top Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, to issue an urgent call to arms that has resonated with young Shiite men.

The military’s best-trained and equipped forces have been deployed to bolster Baghdad’s defenses, aided by U.S. intelligence on the militants’ movements, according to the Iraqi officials, who are close to al-Maliki’s inner circle and spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss such sensitive issues.

The number of troops normally deployed in Baghdad has doubled, they said, but declined to give a figure. Significant numbers are defending the Green Zone, the sprawling area on the west bank of the Tigris River that is home to al-Maliki’s office, as well as the U.S. Embassy.

“Al-Maliki is tense. He is up working until 4 a.m. every day. He angrily ordered staff at his office to stop watching TV news channels hostile to his government,” one of the officials said.

The struggle has prompted the Obama administration to send hundreds of troops back into Iraq, nearly three years after the American military withdrew.

The Pentagon said Tuesday that nearly half of the roughly 300 U.S. advisers and special operations forces are now on the ground in Baghdad, where they have begun to assess the Iraqi forces and the fight against Sunni militants. Another four teams of special forces will arrive in days, bringing the total to nearly 200.

Rear Adm. John Kirby, the Pentagon spokesman, also said the U.S. is conducting up to 35 surveillance missions daily over Iraq to provide intelligence as Iraqi troops battle the aggressive and fast-moving insurgency. About 90 of the U.S. troops are setting up a joint operations center in Baghdad.

Iraqi officials said the U.S. advisers were expected to focus on the better units the Americans had closely worked with before pulling out.

Iraq’s best-trained and equipped force is a 10,000-strong outfit once nicknamed the “dirty division” that fought alongside the Americans for years against Sunni extremists and Shiite militiamen. Now it is stretched thin, with many of its men deployed in Anbar province in a monthslong standoff with Sunni militants who have since January controlled a city 30 miles (50 kilometers) west of Baghdad.

The focus on Baghdad, rather than recapturing the vast Sunni areas to the west and north, has been subtly conveyed to the media in daily briefings by chief military spokesman Lt. Gen. Qassim al-Moussawi. He has in recent days shifted from boilerplate assurances that the military is on the offensive to something less confident.

“Withdrawals from anywhere to another location does not mean defeat or that we permanently left an area,” he said Monday. “It is a battlefield, and the fight includes going forward and backward and regrouping.”

The Iraqi military, rife with corruption and torn by conflicting loyalties, lacks adequate air cover for its ground troops and armor, with the nation’s infant air force operating two Cessna aircraft capable of firing U.S.-made Hellfire missiles. That leaves the army air wing of helicopter gunships stretched and overworked.

While Iraq’s security forces number a whopping 1.1 million, with 700,000 in the police and the rest in the army, corruption, desertion and sectarian divisions have been a major problem. With a monthly salary of $700 for newly enlisted men, the forces have attracted many young Iraqis who would otherwise be unemployed. Once in, some bribe commanders so they can stay home and take a second job, lamented the officials.

Al-Maliki’s effort to bolster the defense of the capital coincides with Iraq’s worst crisis since the 2011 withdrawal of U.S. forces, with the nation facing a serious danger of splitting up into warring Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish enclaves.

The declaration by Barzani, the Kurdish leader, of a “new Iraq,” was a thinly veiled reference to the newly won Kurdish control of the oil-rich city of Kirkuk, which the Kurds have long sought to incorporate into their self-rule region.

Control of Kirkuk and Kurdish pockets in Diyala province and elsewhere have been at the heart of tension between the Kurdish region and the Baghdad government, and the Kurds are unlikely to want to give up that territory, regardless of the status of the fighting.

Al-Maliki, who has no military background but gets the final say on major battlefield decisions, has looked to hundreds of thousands of Shiite volunteers who joined the security forces as the best hope to repel the Islamic State’s offensive.

While giving the conflict a sectarian slant — the overwhelming majority are Shiites — the volunteers have also been a logistical headache as the army tries to clothe, feed and arm them. Furthermore, their inexperience means they will not be combat ready for weeks, even months.

Still, some were sent straight to battle, with disastrous consequences.

New details about the fight for Tal Afar — the first attempt to retake a major city from the insurgents — underscore the challenges facing the Iraqi security forces.

Dozens of young volunteers disembarked last week at an airstrip near the isolated northern city and headed straight to battle, led by an army unit. The volunteers and the accompanying troops initially staved off advances by the militants, but were soon beaten back, according to military officials.

They took refuge in the airstrip, but the militants shelled the facility so heavily the army unit pulled out, leaving 150 panicking volunteers to fend for themselves, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.

The ill-fated expedition — at least 30 volunteers and troops were killed and the rest of the recruits remain stranded at the airstrip — does not bode well for al-Maliki’s declared plan to make them the backbone of Iraq’s future army.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by UlanBatori »

krishnan wrote:their troops look very well eqped too, almost like professional army
So 11 years after Dubya declared Mission Accomplished, and the US taxpayer poured $2B a month into the Global Offensive Against Terror (GOAT) to train the Forces of Freedom against the Al Qaeda,
the Al Qaeda is well-manned, well-funded, well-armed and well-organized, spiffy uniforms, black face-masks/handkerchiefs modeled on the best Old West bank robbers, and going from strength to strength with brand-new US-supplied HumVees, artillery, M1A1 tanks, and attack helicopters and missiles.

The Armies of Iraq meanwhile consist of 150 terrified youngsters hiding in the ditches of an airfield waiting for the Al Qaeda to come in and chop their mijjiles off.

Do u get the feeling that there was maybe a sign error in how the SD interpreted the orders from the WHOTUS? Do these einsteins actually know, or care, whose side they are on? This looks increasingly like the GOAT has been run by Paco or his inferior cousin in DupleeCity.
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