India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

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chetak
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby chetak » 01 Sep 2014 10:13

Hobbes wrote:
chetak wrote:{quote="srin"}Chetak-ji, so, another way of interpreting is that Navy too is having problems, but because it is involved, it really doesn't complain.

So, Scorpene is delayed for a long time, but MDL being run by ex-Navy rear admiral, it really won't complain. Or CSL doesn't have money for completion of INS Vikrant, but it isn't CSL issue but an MoD issue. And CSL chairman is an ex-commodore. Despite NPOL, we still need to import sonars, but don't hear too much noise about it.

So - my takeaway from this is that, giving services the operation control of DPSUs or having ex-officers run the shipyards really doesn't solve the core problem of delays. It only stops the gripes.

I'm not trying to be provocative here. There is a huge blame game on, and we don't hear the DRDO / DPSU perspectives in open source media and hence, tough questions need to be pondered over to understand what is really going on.
{/quote}

Your point is well taken.

No shortage of gripers in the Navy, sirjee. or even out of it. The harshest critics are all in white uniform or retired from the IN. In no other service would the Chief have ever quit for any reason.

Scorpene issue is a political issue not an engineering one. Properly funded and kicked off it should bloom. saint anthony delayed funding for the carrier among many other projects because termite queen wanted money for her elect rahul baba schemes err welfare schemes. The blasted dynasty even compromised national security and the minions willingly complied so that they could all continue to ride the gravy train.

So, as the fine ladies in hong kong say , "no money, no jig jig" :wink:

Once approved and funded, the IN generally brings the project home and that's the point that I was trying to make. The in house talent is encouraged, motivated and nurtured and the IN is way way far ahead on the indigenisation programs.

The IN is small, tightly knit and very highly technologically oriented, so much so, that due to the complexity of systems, the new intake of all officers henceforth is to comprise only of engineers from what one is hearing, well maybe not all, we still need doctors, of course.


Good post. However, it does not explain the giant time overruns on the surface warship projects, with Indian built vessels taking up to twice the time or more foreign yards/ navies take to build and commission warships. An area where the Navy has not stepped up to take ownership is conventional submarines, where we're still reliant on foreign technology. In the overall perspective of the Navy's otherwise successful adoption of the builder's role, this sticks out like a sore thumb. And lastly, let us not forget the Vikramaditya, a telling example of their failure in surveying, estimation and project management.


There are severe productivity issues with Indian PSU labor.

Many studies have been done to explain this, specially with regard to shipyard labor. Even in the Naval dockyards, they are heavily unionized and militant.

Overtime costs are horrendous and that is routinely paid to keep the peace.

Vikramadtiya was a complete snafu with the Navy relying totally on rusky estimates and thinking that the ruskies would deliver for old times sake.

The ruskies took us for a royal ride and just did not have the capabilities to refit the carrier. It should have been towed to it's original builder's yard and work done there but since that was in another country, the ruskies objected violently.

The ruskies practically built a new yard to do the work and benefited enormously from it, leaving us all to wonder if that was not the original hardnosed intent of the sale and refit contract.

The navy simply missed all the signs or chose to naively overlook it in the interest of good relations and foolishly banked on goodwill. They have learned a terrible lesson and the repercussions will live on for years to come. the Vik will be difficult to run and maintain because it's a "one off".

The Vizag shipyard is getting on with the very much delayed kilo refit and that will hopefully bear fruit in the near future, bringing another much needed boat into service.

What you say is mostly true but a lot of effort has always gone into the Naval projects and by and large, they have been more successful that many other projects.


edit, added later

There is no clarity on the govt policy on submarine building and it's associated infrastructure. This is a hot potato that no one is willing to touch. Hence the apparent "hands off" approach is the best way to avoid any career busting vigilance inquiries.
Last edited by chetak on 01 Sep 2014 10:27, edited 1 time in total.

chetak
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby chetak » 01 Sep 2014 10:22

Arun Menon wrote:^I once read that these delays are often caused by delays in the ordering of components or subsystems, due to either a phased approach in procurement (with all the components not ordered up front at the start of the project) as well as delays in sanctioning funding for the same. Any truth to this? Are the DPSUs forced to delay purchase of components?


The supply chain linkages of the erstwhile soviet union is now a frightening mess.

Delays are because of the supply chain linkages that now run across multiple old soviet era countries. Many companies in these new countries have changed their product lines and can no longer be identified as the source of some components.

Some have changed product lines officially but many have simply done so unofficially with no remaining trace of their original identities.

Some you can track down but many you cannot. That is the reason for the spares, components and subsystems mess.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby srai » 01 Sep 2014 18:40

chetak wrote:
Arun Menon wrote:^I once read that these delays are often caused by delays in the ordering of components or subsystems, due to either a phased approach in procurement (with all the components not ordered up front at the start of the project) as well as delays in sanctioning funding for the same. Any truth to this? Are the DPSUs forced to delay purchase of components?


The supply chain linkages of the erstwhile soviet union is now a frightening mess.

Delays are because of the supply chain linkages that now run across multiple old soviet era countries. Many companies in these new countries have changed their product lines and can no longer be identified as the source of some components.

Some have changed product lines officially but many have simply done so unofficially with no remaining trace of their original identities.

Some you can track down but many you cannot. That is the reason for the spares, components and subsystems mess.


This is the reason the IAF's preference for TOT is more along the lines of acquiring local spare parts production for the 30-40 years an aircraft is in service. It is less about acquiring new technologies to build national capability per se. That is where DRDO is needed to define and negotiate on additional TOTs that are deemed essential for building national capability.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby A Sharma » 02 Sep 2014 17:04

DRDO Newsletter Sept 2014

IRDE develops Stabilised Electro Optic Sight

Karan M
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 04 Sep 2014 03:18

Brilliant find ASharma - that's the Arjun HK (Hunter Killer) commanders sight developed by IRDE & is being assembled by VEM Technologies (a long time IRDE partner in the pvt sector).
The item can be used for
The modular approach of this sight results into a
quick customisation for different applications namely
fire control solution for armoured fighting vehicles,
surveillance from high speed boats and low altitude
Aerostat, tracking system for quick reaction surface-to-
air missile.


and is

Instruments Research and Development
Establishment (IRDE), Dehradun, has developed a
Stabilised Electro Optical Sight (SEOS) with two-axis
stabilisation and integrated automatic video tracker
facility. SEOS has three electro-optical sensors, viz.,
3
rd
generation 3-5 μm (640 x 512 FPA) thermal Imager
(TI) with optical zoom, colour day TV with optical zoom
camera and eye-safe laser range finder (ELRF). The
day TV camera and TI are having a narrow field of view
(NFOV) of 0.8° x 0.6° and wide field of view (WFOV) of
5° x 4° with additional 2 X electronic zoom in TI. These
sensors provide a recognition range of 7 km for a NATO
type of target. ELRF provides range of the target from
200 m to 9995 m with an accuracy of ± 5 m.


Nice.

Anybody notice BTW that the BEL site now carries a weblink to the current Arjun GMS (Gunners Main Sight)? This is the revised sight developed for Arjun by Thales along with CVRDE, Tata & Delft. Looks like they managed a license production deal for the sight (it being imported was often used by the Arjun detractors to claim lack of sustainability).

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 04 Sep 2014 03:20

A good start if implemented:

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=103681

Two wafer plants in India

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Hobbes » 04 Sep 2014 05:35

Karan M wrote:A good start if implemented:

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=103681

Two wafer plants in India


What I don't get is why these projects had to be cleared by the Union cabinet. Does the old and unlamented licence raj still apply to semiconductors, or is there another reason these projects need Government approval at the highest level (maybe special financial incentives)?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Indranil » 04 Sep 2014 07:56

The govt. doesn't need to give a license but it needs to decide on the incentives it wants to extend to attract this kind of investment.
The following main incentives will be extended:
i. 25% subsidy on capital expenditure and tax reimbursement as admissible under Modified Special Incentive Package Scheme (M-SIPS) Policy.
ii. Exemption of Basic Customs Duty (BCD) for non-covered capital items
iii. 200% deduction on expenditure on R&D as admissible under Section 35(2AB) of the Income Tax (IT) Act.
iv. Investment linked deductions under Section 35AD of the IT Act.
v. Interest free loan of approx. Rs 5124 crore each. (Exact amount to be calculated on Detailed Project Report appraisal.)

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby titash » 04 Sep 2014 09:07

Karan M wrote:A good start if implemented:

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=103681

Two wafer plants in India


From the article:

"The proposed FABs will create direct employment of about 22,000 and indirect employment of about one lakh."

What the F* will 22,000 people do in 2 fabs? Almost seems that all our PSU/DPSU units are as much for employment generation as much for business.

I worked in a small fab with ~ 250 people (0.35 micron; 50000 wafers/quarter) as well as one of the world's largest fabs with ~ 1200 people (0.13 micron; 20000 wafers/day). To directly hire 22,000 people seems staggering, given all the automation.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby srai » 04 Sep 2014 09:12

^^^

Maybe that includes construction.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby merlin » 04 Sep 2014 10:42

srai wrote:^^^

Maybe that includes construction.


Was thinking the same thing.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby vic » 04 Sep 2014 11:31

Also things like warehouse, security, delivery, transportation, canteen, janitors, Gardners, marketing people

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 04 Sep 2014 11:57

Titash, that's an overall figure given for PR purposes. I doubt 22K people will be employed at any fab/s. Reason they stress employment generation, because its a key aspect for many of these programs to get sanctioned & get political approval. Translates to electioneering also well. We are yet to get to the stage where technological requirement alone can swing large deals & their investments.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby pankajs » 05 Sep 2014 10:56

http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/ind ... e/view/382

Optical and Electro-Optical Instrumentation (Vol 63, No 6)
Special Issue Papers
Status of Uncooled Infrared Detector Technology at ULIS, France
- J.L. Tissot, P. Robert, A. Durand, S. Tinnes, E. Bercier, A. Crastes 545-549
Latest Developments of Cooled Infrared Detectors at Sofradir, France
- M. Vuillermet 550-554
Status of Cooled and Uncooled Infrared Detectors at SCD, Israel
- Philip Klipstein, Udi Mizrahi, Avraham Rami Fraenkel, Itay Shtrichman 555-570
Development of miniature Stirling cryocooler technology for Infrared Focal Plane array
- Manmohan Singh, Mukesh Sadana, Sunil Sachdev, Gaurav Pratap 571-580
Design optimization of Pixel Structure for α-Si based uncooled Infrared detector
- Sudha Gupta, Anupriya Katiyar, R. K. Bhan, R. Muralidharan 581-588
Sensor Non Uniformity Correction Algorithms and its Real Time Implementation for Infrared Focal Plane Array-based Thermal Imaging System
- Ajay Kumar 589-598
Design and Development of Intracavity Optical Parametric Oscillator-based Eye Safe Laser Operating at 20 Hz without Forced Air Cooling
- Atul Bhardwaj, Lalita Agrawal, A. K. Maini 599-605
Large Aperture, Tip Tilt Mirror for Beam Jitter correction in High Power Lasers
- Devinder Pal Ghai, Anuya Venkatesh, Het Ram Swami, Anjesh Kumar 606-610
Infrared Background and Missiles Signature Survey
- D.V. Renuka, K. Maheswara Reddy 611-615


http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/ind ... /5746/4447
Optical and Electro-Optical Instrumentation (Guest Editorial)
- S.S. Negi (Instruments Research & Development Establishment Dehradun, India)
Importance of Optical and Electro-Optical Instrumentation is growing by leaps and bounds in the modern day battlefield. Night vision devices both image intensifier (II) Tube based and thermal imagers (TIs) are true force multipliers as they allow weapons and equipments to be used during day and night in fair and bad weather conditions. Growing trends in the thermal imaging area are mega pixels arrays with smaller pixel size, active and passive imaging at the focal plane, new detector materials operating at elevated temperature, dual color detectors, advanced signal and image processing, sensor and image fusion and automatic target recognition capability. With sufficient exploitations of these devices on ground, worldwide focus is towards the militarization of space by deploying multi / hyper spectral imagers for better target discrimination. Low power non-lethal laser instrumentation is also emerging as another key area to fight a battle taking the shapes of Laser range finders, gap measuring devices, precision guided munitions, and laser proximity fuzes. The key trends in laser instrumentation area are eye-safe lasers, laser diodes arrays, diode pumped laser designators, high power lasers with adaptive beam-shaping, sensor fuzed seekers and 3-D laser imaging.

Defence Research and Development Organisation with one of its key system laboratories, Instruments Research and Development Establishment (IRDE), Dehradun has grown tremendously in the optical and electro-optical instrumentation area. With a challenging start around 1940 or so, when it developed moisture sealings for the tropical optical instruments, IRDE developed wide range of II tube based night vision devices which have undergone production by various PSUs and private industries generating a production business worth ` 400 crore during 1970-90s. As the TI technology was getting evolved worldwide, IRDE started working on the thermal imaging technologies during 1980s and developed various 1st and 2nd generation thermal imagers based on 60 element and 288 x 4 element linear focal plane arrays. With the availability of staring focal plane arrays i.e. (320 x 240/640 x 512 matrix), IRDE has developed various TI instrumentation, like integrated multi functional sight (IMFS), Helmet mounted TIs, TIs for AFVs, electro optical fire control Systems for MBTs and naval ships, which is likely to generate a business of approximately ` 5,000 crore to production agencies based on IRDE (DRDO) Transfer of Technology in near future. In parallel, diode pumped laser designators were also developed for services for designating the targets of interest for precision guided munitions. R&D in low power laser area also kept on growing from gas lasers to eye–safe solid state and diode lasers. IRDE has developed light-weight laser target designators (LLTD) for services for accurately guiding bombs and PGMs. For significant contributions in the area of electro-optics, IRDE has been awarded DRDO Silicon Trophy in 2012.

IRDE also undertook significant steps in technology development areas. With a far sighted vision, IRDE launched a photonics programme in 1990s which was an applied R&D programme but started delivering useful products from first stage itself. A gun mounted holographic sight developed by IRDE has been an enormous success with the Indian Army. Integrated optics chips and tunable frequency converters have been developed which will find application for fiber optic gyros (FOGs) and infrared counter measures (IRCMs). Other DRDO labs like Solid State Physics Laboratory (sspl), Delhi and Laser Science & Technology Centre (LASTEC), Delhi have been sincere partners in the photonics programme and Research Centre Imarat (RCI), Hyderabad has been instrumental in taking IRDE’s photonic products to actual uses. Encouraged with this success, IRDE has now initiated an ambitious programme on ‘Micro-Optics and Nanophotonics’ which is going to get the cutting edge high technology research happening in Indian academia applied in defence domain. As a spin off technology provider also, IRDE has delivered low cost high magnification plastic aspheric lenses to visually handicapped which have won a national award.

In thermal imaging area, detector is the key technology. So, a lot of importance has been given to this one in this special issue of Defence Science Journal. Tissot and co-authors has presented the status of uncooled detector technology at ULIS, France. Their paper describes uncooled microbolometers made from amorphous silicon enabling the development of small weight and small power (SWaP) high performance IR systems. Latest developments of cooled detectors at Sofradir France have been presented by Vuillermet. His paper presents new products based on MCT detector technology like Scorpio LW, Jupiter MW detectors. Klipsten and co-authors from SCD, Israel in their long paper titled ‘Status of Cooled and Uncooled IR detector at SCD, Israel’ have discussed in detail the newly matured InSb planar technology especially SCD’s new epi-InSb detectors and also the new HOT XBn-InAsSb detectors enabling faster cool down time and mission readiness, longer mission times and higher cooler reliability and enhanced S/N ratio due to reduce dark current. Gupta and co-authors at SSPL, Delhi, India has presented coventorware software based simulation results on design optimization of pixel structure for α-Si based uncooled IR detector in which they have concluded that pixel membrane structures of grid and serpentine types are more appropriate for achieving high performance IR detector arrays. Developments in cryocooler technology for IRFPA in India has been presented in detail by Singh and co-authors at SSPL, India.

Kumar in his paper titled ‘sensor uniformity correction algorithms and its real time implementation for infrared focal plane array based thermal imaging system’ has presented the two types of sensor non-uniformity correction algorithms developed at IRDE–one correction of sensor non-uniformities based on calibration method and the other one based on scene information and the results of their implementation on FPGA based embedded system hardware. The paper titled ‘Infrared Background and missile signature survey’ by Renuka and Reddy from Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE), Bangalore has presented the building of tactical missile IR signatures and background data bank.

Laser and adaptive optics technology is another key area in electro-optics instrumentation domain. Design of a large aperture, tip tilt mirror for beam jitter correction in high power lasers at LASTEC, Delhi has been presented by Ghai and co-authors. The performance of TTM in both static and dynamic conditions and test set-ups have been well discussed in this paper. Bhardwaj and co-authors has reported the design and development of intra-cavity Optical Parametric Oscillator- based Eye safe laser at LASTEC, Delhi.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby rkhanna » 05 Sep 2014 13:43

Dr. A K Maini, Director, LASTEC, DRDO finally quitting on 10th June 2014 – A RTI success story

http://corruptionindrdo.com/2014/06/06/dr-a-k-maini-director-lastec-drdo-finally-quitting-on-10th-june-2014-a-rti-success-story/

Anybody have any idea how much this impacted our laser weapon programs?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Vipul » 06 Sep 2014 04:41

HMT Machine Tools Ltd forays into Naval Systems production.

HMT Machine Tools Ltd has for the first time forayed into the production of Naval Systems by successfully developing 'Directing Gear', a critical onboard equipment for naval application. The equipment called 'Directing Gear' is an auxiliary of SONAR system developed by Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory, (NPOL) here and has been developed through a collaborative effort with Bangalore based Bharat Electronics, the country's premier Defence Production agency and NPOL.

The first equipment was handed over to Dr Ajit T Kalghatgi, Dierctor (R&D) BEL by HMTMTL Managing Director B M Shivashankar at a function at nearby Kalamassery. This would also be a major import-substitution for Bharat Electronics Ltd. The first equipment was handed over to Dr Ajit T Kalghatgi, Dierctor (R&D) BEL by HMTMTL Managing Director B M Shivashankar at a function at nearby Kalamassery.

This is the first of the three units against a defence order Bharat Electronics, Bangalore had given to HMTMTL. It is for the first time that HMTMTL is entering into the manufacturing of Naval Systems, a press release said. The major challenge for HMTMTL was to design, manufacture, test, qualify and deliver this complex system within a tight time schedule to facilitate an important order for BEL.

The Directing Gear is a computer-controlled rotary system using state-of-the-art technology. It would be used for supporting and calibrating the 4.5-ton sensor array of the SONAR system. It is designed to withstand harsh environmental conditions such as shock, vibration, temperature and other adverse conditions of the battle field during operation

A MOU was signed between NPOL, BEL and HMTMTL for ensuring successful realization of the Directing Gear in January this year, K K Balachandran, General Manager, said.

The tie up is a major outcome of NPOL's efforts to involve both public and private sector industries in sonar production. It also underlines BEL's interest in utilising its Product Support Centre at Kalamassery to promote sonar systems development through NPOL.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Victor » 06 Sep 2014 08:41

titash wrote:What the F* will 22,000 people do in 2 fabs? Almost seems that all our PSU/DPSU units are as much for employment generation as much for business.

The report says these are not PSUs but private companies if I'm reading it right?

(i) M/s Jaiprakash Associates Limited (with IBM, USA and Tower Semiconductor Limited, Israel as partners)
(ii) M/s HSMC Technologies India Pvt. Ltd. (with ST Microelectronics and Silterra Malaysia Sdn. Bhd. as partners)


Maybe they mean the 2 plants will generate downstream jobs for 22,000 people, in which case it is an understatement.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby vic » 06 Sep 2014 10:24

Look at the names? Jai Prakash is bankrupt real estate sector Lala company, what does it know about chip manufacture? They cannot make Potato chips let alone computer chips.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby tushar_m » 08 Sep 2014 09:53

‘Manmohan sabotaged India’s Nuclear capability’


The then Prime Minister Manmohan Singh followed an unwritten policy of severely downsizing both the Fast Breeder Reactor (FBT) as well as the thorium-based technology programme, thereby making India dependent on foreign countries for advanced nuclear technology, key scientists claim on the condition of anonymity. The scientists say that by 2003, the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) — which comes directly under the Prime Minister — was within four years of mastering the 1 Gigawatt nuclear power plant technology now being supplied by China to Pakistan.

However, "from 2005 onwards, the PM turned his attention towards signing a nuclear deal, which would make India one of the top three global markets for nuclear power companies in the US and Europe rather than a competitor of companies based in these locations" in the lucrative nuclear power technology market. At the same time, "no serious effort was made to clear the legal and other obstacles to mining extra quantities of uranium in Andhra Pradesh and the Northeast".

Instead, the (foreign-funded) NGOs behind the agitation against uranium mining "were given privileged access, including in the Ministry of Environment". According to them, "The attention given to the Fast Breeder Reactor and Thorium programmes were reduced still further by 2008, when discussions began with international companies about supply of reactors to India". If this had not been done, scientists say that by 2013 at the latest, India may have been able to develop the technology for 1 Gigawatt reactors, thereby creating an export market with a potential for sales of $4 billion initially. This advantage was handed over to China "because of the lack of interest and attention given by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to indigenous nuclear technology". Incidentally, scientists warn that China is now on the cusp of mastering the technology of 2 Gigawatt reactors, while India is now forced to rely on overseas suppliers for 1 Gigawatt (or 1,000 Megawatt) nuclear power plants.

Now that Narendra Modi is Prime Minister, the scientists are hopeful of a return to the level of interest shown by Indira Gandhi towards the indigenous nuclear programme, in place of Manmohan Singh's policy of relying instead on foreign technology and manufacturers for developing such energy sources. A scientist claimed that in case the Indian private sector too partners the DAE, within the next five years, "India can become one of the top three nuclear power plant exporters globally and the top destination for space launches". He and his colleagues repeated that the Manmohan Singh government's "lack of interest in developing Indian resources and technology was clear from each of the small number of interactions which the PM had with the scientific establishment". Rather than "Make in India", the watchword was "Export to India".

Alarmingly, the scientists warned that rare earths as well as thorium deposits were being exported out of the country to unknown destinations, and named a clutch of Tamil Nadu-based companies as being the worst offenders. In one such instance, in 2007, a case got registered by the DAE against V.V. Minerals for quarrying and exporting sands rich in precious minerals from Tirunelveli. The company, together with Indian Port Terminals, Kilburn Chemicals and Transworld Garnet (all based in Tamil Nadu), has also been accused of exporting restricted minerals in the guise of sand mining in Tuticorin, Tirunelveli and Kanyakumari. Although reports of such mining multiplied, "the central authorities took no cognizance". Finally, on 6 August 2013, the collector of Thoothukui district warned in writing that certain companies had illegally quarried as much as 239,712 MT of precious minerals from beaches in the state, only to get transferred for his pains. As a consequence, precious minerals such as garnet, rutile, ilmenite and monazite (which contains thorium) continue to get exported as ordinary sand, without any effort by the authorities to prevent such a denuding of India's indigenous stock of rare earths and precious minerals.

A scientist pointed out that in 2006, the Manmohan Singh government removed rare minerals such as rutile, zircon, garnet and ilmenite from the Atomic Minerals List, thereby giving the precious sand mafias operating in the country carte blanche to take away such minerals for export to unknown destinations. "This decision, which harmed the country's interests significantly, was carried out by the Department of Atomic Energy under pressure from the Prime Minister's Office", a scientist claimed. "Such a decision was in line with others degrading domestic capacities for the benefit of foreign entities", the scientist added.

It may be mentioned that a single company, V.V. Minerals, controls over 15 kilometres of beach area in three districts of Tamil Nadu, while also having control (through lease deeds) of several thousand acres of land rich in precious minerals.

Monazite is an important feedstock for thorium, cerium and lanthanum, and scientists say that the casual manner in which its (thinly disguised) export was treated by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh "has no parallel anywhere in the world". An intelligence analyst claimed that key executives of companies involved in illicit mining "frequented Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur, and met up with ISI officials there". He claimed that the Pakistan nuclear establishment is building up a stock of thorium for its own research, all of which comes from minerals illegally exported from India. He warned that "ports on both the coasts are riddled with officers acting under the influence of the ISI, which has spent decades cultivating such individuals". Scientists say that there has been a "Decade of Neglect" under Manmohan Singh of the Fast Breeder and Thorium programmes, despite the fact that "when Manmohan Singh took charge as PM in 2004, India was the world leader" in both technologies. The scientists say that the country can "change from a dumping ground for foreign equipment into an exporter of even 1 Gigawatt reactors", once Manmohan Singh's legacy of neglect of domestic capacities in favour of foreign imports gets reversed.




Source : http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/man ... capability

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby member_28539 » 08 Sep 2014 11:17

Any Gurus can enlighten on our prospects of having a GPS/GLONASS sort of system? I mean shooting off rockets to marks is good for testing our rocket range but do we have the spine on which we are to fight a network centric warfare?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby member_28539 » 08 Sep 2014 11:18

vic wrote:Look at the names? Jai Prakash is bankrupt real estate sector Lala company, what does it know about chip manufacture? They cannot make Potato chips let alone computer chips.

+1
Exactly my thought! :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby krishnan » 08 Sep 2014 11:25

Joshi_Sa wrote:Any Gurus can enlighten on our prospects of having a GPS/GLONASS sort of system? I mean shooting off rockets to marks is good for testing our rocket range but do we have the spine on which we are to fight a network centric warfare?


please google for IRNSS

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby merlin » 08 Sep 2014 11:40

Will be very disappointed with the Modi govt. if the person responsible for this treason doesn't swing from a lamp post.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby member_28539 » 08 Sep 2014 13:16

krishnan wrote:please google for IRNSS


@Krishnan Sir: All I can see from google is a constellation of 7 Satellites, accolades about it being a very high quality system but, the usability has not been higlighted anywhere, I mean does it have the same versatility as of GPS?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby krishnan » 08 Sep 2014 14:31

Joshi_Sa wrote:
krishnan wrote:please google for IRNSS


@Krishnan Sir: All I can see from google is a constellation of 7 Satellites, accolades about it being a very high quality system but, the usability has not been higlighted anywhere, I mean does it have the same versatility as of GPS?


http://www.isro.org/satellites/irnss.aspx

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby JayS » 08 Sep 2014 14:47

tushar_m wrote:‘Manmohan sabotaged India’s Nuclear capability’


The then Prime Minister Manmohan Singh followed an unwritten policy of severely downsizing both the Fast Breeder Reactor (FBT) as well as the thorium-based technology programme, thereby making India dependent on foreign countries for advanced nuclear technology, key scientists claim on the condition of anonymity. The scientists say that by 2003, the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) — which comes directly under the Prime Minister — was within four years of mastering the 1 Gigawatt nuclear power plant technology now being supplied by China to Pakistan.

However, "from 2005 onwards, the PM turned his attention towards signing a nuclear deal, which would make India one of the top three global markets for nuclear power companies in the US and Europe rather than a competitor of companies based in these locations" in the lucrative nuclear power technology market. At the same time, "no serious effort was made to clear the legal and other obstacles to mining extra quantities of uranium in Andhra Pradesh and the Northeast".

Instead, the (foreign-funded) NGOs behind the agitation against uranium mining "were given privileged access, including in the Ministry of Environment". According to them, "The attention given to the Fast Breeder Reactor and Thorium programmes were reduced still further by 2008, when discussions began with international companies about supply of reactors to India". If this had not been done, scientists say that by 2013 at the latest, India may have been able to develop the technology for 1 Gigawatt reactors, thereby creating an export market with a potential for sales of $4 billion initially. This advantage was handed over to China "because of the lack of interest and attention given by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to indigenous nuclear technology". Incidentally, scientists warn that China is now on the cusp of mastering the technology of 2 Gigawatt reactors, while India is now forced to rely on overseas suppliers for 1 Gigawatt (or 1,000 Megawatt) nuclear power plants.

Now that Narendra Modi is Prime Minister, the scientists are hopeful of a return to the level of interest shown by Indira Gandhi towards the indigenous nuclear programme, in place of Manmohan Singh's policy of relying instead on foreign technology and manufacturers for developing such energy sources. A scientist claimed that in case the Indian private sector too partners the DAE, within the next five years, "India can become one of the top three nuclear power plant exporters globally and the top destination for space launches". He and his colleagues repeated that the Manmohan Singh government's "lack of interest in developing Indian resources and technology was clear from each of the small number of interactions which the PM had with the scientific establishment". Rather than "Make in India", the watchword was "Export to India".

Alarmingly, the scientists warned that rare earths as well as thorium deposits were being exported out of the country to unknown destinations, and named a clutch of Tamil Nadu-based companies as being the worst offenders. In one such instance, in 2007, a case got registered by the DAE against V.V. Minerals for quarrying and exporting sands rich in precious minerals from Tirunelveli. The company, together with Indian Port Terminals, Kilburn Chemicals and Transworld Garnet (all based in Tamil Nadu), has also been accused of exporting restricted minerals in the guise of sand mining in Tuticorin, Tirunelveli and Kanyakumari. Although reports of such mining multiplied, "the central authorities took no cognizance". Finally, on 6 August 2013, the collector of Thoothukui district warned in writing that certain companies had illegally quarried as much as 239,712 MT of precious minerals from beaches in the state, only to get transferred for his pains. As a consequence, precious minerals such as garnet, rutile, ilmenite and monazite (which contains thorium) continue to get exported as ordinary sand, without any effort by the authorities to prevent such a denuding of India's indigenous stock of rare earths and precious minerals.

A scientist pointed out that in 2006, the Manmohan Singh government removed rare minerals such as rutile, zircon, garnet and ilmenite from the Atomic Minerals List, thereby giving the precious sand mafias operating in the country carte blanche to take away such minerals for export to unknown destinations. "This decision, which harmed the country's interests significantly, was carried out by the Department of Atomic Energy under pressure from the Prime Minister's Office", a scientist claimed. "Such a decision was in line with others degrading domestic capacities for the benefit of foreign entities", the scientist added.

It may be mentioned that a single company, V.V. Minerals, controls over 15 kilometres of beach area in three districts of Tamil Nadu, while also having control (through lease deeds) of several thousand acres of land rich in precious minerals.

Monazite is an important feedstock for thorium, cerium and lanthanum, and scientists say that the casual manner in which its (thinly disguised) export was treated by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh "has no parallel anywhere in the world". An intelligence analyst claimed that key executives of companies involved in illicit mining "frequented Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur, and met up with ISI officials there". He claimed that the Pakistan nuclear establishment is building up a stock of thorium for its own research, all of which comes from minerals illegally exported from India. He warned that "ports on both the coasts are riddled with officers acting under the influence of the ISI, which has spent decades cultivating such individuals". Scientists say that there has been a "Decade of Neglect" under Manmohan Singh of the Fast Breeder and Thorium programmes, despite the fact that "when Manmohan Singh took charge as PM in 2004, India was the world leader" in both technologies. The scientists say that the country can "change from a dumping ground for foreign equipment into an exporter of even 1 Gigawatt reactors", once Manmohan Singh's legacy of neglect of domestic capacities in favour of foreign imports gets reversed.




Source : http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/man ... capability


I had read an article which was almost like this one (may be by same author) about 2 years ago. That time it came with a mind-boggling figure of 'INR 48 lakh crore" worth of scam amid all those coal-gate and 2G-gate scams. But of course nobody gives a damn about "petty' issues like nuclear energy which could give us a long term energy security in main stream media. I will post the link if I cold find it.

Its quite obvious why US had pushed for the nuclear deal. US is not building more reactors, so those US companies need to have some market to survive. That was the sole purpose. A whole lot of brouhaha was made about how India has got a prestigious position in the world that even US pushed for nuclear deal against a lot of international resistance and how it was a big strategic victory for India. Well, under this complacency actually UPA govt suppressed the Thorium based reactor technology. They must have got big kickbacks for that.

One of the few things done by Chacha Neharu which were laudable, was to support visionaries like Dr. Bhabha who envisaged Thorium based technology which could make India energy independent. Well this traitorous Con-grace(less) govt screwed the plan big time. We only needed little Uranium till we complete phase-2 of the grand plan for Thorium technology. We never needed the Uranium based foreign reactors.

This exporting of Thorium-rich sand should be banned immediately and NM should punish all these traitors. Nothing should be tolerated which jeopardizes our national security. I am also hoping that NM will bring the Thorium based reactor technology back on track and will give all the impetuous needed for its success. Thorium reactors are a whole lot less messier and environmental friendly than Uranium based ones.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Victor » 08 Sep 2014 19:39

Joshi_Sa wrote:
vic wrote:Look at the names? Jai Prakash is bankrupt real estate sector Lala company, what does it know about chip manufacture? They cannot make Potato chips let alone computer chips.

+1
Exactly my thought! :rotfl: :rotfl:

Did it occur to you guys that there might be more than one "Jaiprakash Assoc" in India? The name is as common as Smith Company in US, Lund Corp in Scandinavia or Al Fuqqer in Arabia.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby vishvak » 08 Sep 2014 22:04

Any details of how long would it take to master 1GW powerplant tech and Thorium cycle. There was a view that it would take decades or so for the next phase but that doesn't mean that we can not store Thorium, and other minerals, whenever the tech is mastered and owned.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 08 Sep 2014 22:35

rkhanna wrote:Dr. A K Maini, Director, LASTEC, DRDO finally quitting on 10th June 2014 – A RTI success story

http://corruptionindrdo.com/2014/06/06/dr-a-k-maini-director-lastec-drdo-finally-quitting-on-10th-june-2014-a-rti-success-story/

Anybody have any idea how much this impacted our laser weapon programs?



Theres just a lot of accusations in that article but no evidence. A lot of Sci G/Hs leave because of lucrative offers in the pvt sector. Basically events of such magnitude would be acknowledged.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 08 Sep 2014 22:41

vic wrote:Look at the names? Jai Prakash is bankrupt real estate sector Lala company, what does it know about chip manufacture? They cannot make Potato chips let alone computer chips.


Wipro started as an oil firm...many of the big names in telco, infra etc started off in completely different areas..

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Indranil » 08 Sep 2014 23:21

vic wrote:Look at the names? Jai Prakash is bankrupt real estate sector Lala company, what does it know about chip manufacture? They cannot make Potato chips let alone computer chips.

Micron Inc.is the second largest manufacturer of memory chips (4th by revenue among all semiconductor manufacturers) in the world. It was initially funded and is still partly owned by J.R. Simplot. He is more famous (61th on the Forbes list of companies) from being the primary supplier of french fries to McDonald. The joke is that there is that somebody told him that there is more money in making silicon chips than potato chips (which was not true for a couple of decades).

My worry is not with the Indian names, but the foreign ones. Silicon manufacturing is a cut throat-business. Last I heard, IBM announced that it was getting out of it! And STMicroelectronics has not being doing well either.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Victor » 09 Sep 2014 04:33

Manufacturing of commodity chips is a highly automated, low margin/cutthroat business but from what these guys are saying, the design talent available in India at comparatively low cost is what will make the difference. We are ahead of China and other developing countries in this area.

And about Indian companies morphing from business to business, Reliance went from cheap soap to oil refining and telecom within a couple of decades and are ready to make the Rafale jet if needed.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby sattili » 09 Sep 2014 07:23

indranilroy wrote:My worry is not with the Indian names, but the foreign ones. Silicon manufacturing is a cut throat-business. Last I heard, IBM announced that it was getting out of it! And STMicroelectronics has not being doing well either.


Victor wrote:Manufacturing of commodity chips is a highly automated, low margin/cutthroat business but from what these guys are saying, the design talent available in India at comparatively low cost is what will make the difference. We are ahead of China and other developing countries in this area.


+1
Just to add another point, Semiconductor manufacturing aka FAB business needs frequent capital investments. Its not onetime deal, a decade ago when I worked for Intel I got to see why they are number1 in this field. They keep pumping billions of dollars every year to upgrade their FABs to next tech level. They have Tick-Tock policy (Tick year is for releasing updates to their designs, Tock year is for upgrading their manufacturing tech). Every 3-4 years they shutdown a FAB and pump nearly $1billion to upgrade it to new tech. Its a shame that we lost out on a opportunity when Intel scouted for setting up a fab in either near Bangalore or in Pudong (China). It would have been $2billion direct investment to construct one and then frequent investments in upgrading. It went to Pudong after they found out first hand the red tape in customs clearances and no clear policy from Govt. This was a decade ago.

There are 3 types of Semiconductor companies 1)Integrated Device Manufacturers - those who design and manufacture their stuff eg Intel, Samsung etc. 2) Design only aka Fabless companies - these outsource the manufacturing to dedicated foundry companies eg. Qualcomm, AMD etc 3)Foundries - These are dedicated manufacture only companies eg. TSMC, UMC etc. Many companies go Fabless due the capital intensive requirement to keep the Fabs updated. AMD sold its Fabs and became Fabless for this reason.

These 2 proposals seem to establish Foundries - which is welcome break. India has lot of design talent in this field, what we lack is the manufacturing experience.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby tushar_m » 09 Sep 2014 09:13

Love the New concepts from Russians (i know its wrong thread but......)




http://youtu.be/Cp7mM2TP_1A

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Rien » 09 Sep 2014 16:51

As far as Fabs goes, it would be good if we went direct to carbon nanotubes and graphene. There is no way we can match Intel's billion dollar fabs this decade. We would be better off leapfrogging this old generation of silicon.

No one has carbon nanotube technology or graphene yet. Rather than trying to catch up, let's give jumping ahead a go.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/new ... n-graphene

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Indranil » 09 Sep 2014 21:53

Rien wrote:As far as Fabs goes, it would be good if we went direct to carbon nanotubes and graphene. There is no way we can match Intel's billion dollar fabs this decade. We would be better off leapfrogging this old generation of silicon.

No one has carbon nanotube technology or graphene yet. Rather than trying to catch up, let's give jumping ahead a go.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/new ... n-graphene

From your comments, I am not sure that you are aware of this industry. I have worked extensively with the memory industry and can tell you about them. May be Satilliji can weigh in for the logic industry.

These companies spend billions in research every year to come up with and evaluate new technology. This research is either internal to the company or with university colaborations under strict non-disclosure agreements. This research is published only when such a release of information affects the market perception of the company and its technology. Beyond this research in universities (in US) are also funded by federal bodies and are generally made freely available at the end of the research. So, in either case, what you read in magazines and newspapers are at least a few years behind the curve. And in the semiconductor industry that is 1-2 generations behind, i.e. virtually useless. That's why you see S.Korea and China are trying to catch-up instead of trying exotic technologies. Their experts are no less visionary or nationalistic than you are, but they are rooted in practicality. And they have worked hard. S. Korea has not only caught up but has become world-leaders with companies like Samsung, SKHynix. China is also progressing in the logic technology, though it is still behind the curve by about 6-7 years.

Revolutions in this field are not brought by exotic technology. It is brought out by the changing applications. For example, NAND memory technology was too slow and too error-prone for classical computing. It was a write-off until I-pods came around and brought with it a complete new and large market for low-cost memory, but with more tolerance for more errors. For example, you would not perceive any difference in quality of your audio if a couple of bits are off during the playout of a song. Today in a matter of 10 years, NAND dominates the memory market.

Another critical factor is that you enter the right market at the right time. NAND manufactures in the the 1990s perished, but NAND manufacturers in 2000s have flourished. Similarly, while DRAM manufacturers in the 1990s flourished, a new entrant now will perish.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 09 Sep 2014 23:40

Guys, the two reports speak of semiconductor wafer fabs. Not memory or logic ICs or even other discrete sensors. Lower down the value chain, but a big step forward anyhow...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 020263.cms

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby NRao » 10 Sep 2014 00:28

From your comments, I am not sure that you are aware of this industry


Tried to keep away ............................. problem: selective goodle is the mind!!!

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby rohitvats » 10 Sep 2014 01:49

indranilroy wrote:
Rien wrote:As far as Fabs goes, it would be good if we went direct to carbon nanotubes and graphene. There is no way we can match Intel's billion dollar fabs this decade. We would be better off leapfrogging this old generation of silicon.

No one has carbon nanotube technology or graphene yet. Rather than trying to catch up, let's give jumping ahead a go.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/new ... n-graphene


From your comments, I am not sure that you are aware of this industry. <SNIP>


Only this industry??? :evil:

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby titash » 10 Sep 2014 03:26

Karan M wrote:Guys, the two reports speak of semiconductor wafer fabs. Not memory or logic ICs or even other discrete sensors. Lower down the value chain, but a big step forward anyhow...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 020263.cms


Aside from the dedicated Intel/AMD processor fabs and the Micron/Samsung memory fabs (which incidentally are the higher end/gold standard in terms of equipment and funding), most of the smaller fabs run a wide mix of products. Their equipment is a very flexible mix of new/used 4", 6", 8", 12" tools that can run BiCMOS, FLASH, Analog processes and create a variety of products. I wouldn't worry too much about not being cutting edge for the following reasons:

(1) Military chips are usually several generations behind the commercial chips currently in use. Once the government inks a contract, the design is virtually frozen. Keep in mind that fighter aircraft/missiles take a about a decade or more to mature...which means that the components are "locked in" for very fat profit margins over the next 30 years. Changing/Upgrading anything is excruciatingly hard. Add to that the requirements for radiation hardening etc.

(2) Intel lost the smartphone/tablet market even though it had higher tech chips. It's just that the market required lower tech lower power ARM chips sold at a lower price.

(2) Even for commercial applications, a simple government mandate to "assemble iPhones in India using 50% of its constituent chips made in India" will drive technology infusions. After all, who doesn't want to sell top end consumer goods here?

We'll do just fine. The first couple of fabs needed to come online, and looks like they are scheduled to do so...


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