Hobbes wrote:chetak wrote:{quote="srin"}Chetak-ji, so, another way of interpreting is that Navy too is having problems, but because it is involved, it really doesn't complain.
So, Scorpene is delayed for a long time, but MDL being run by ex-Navy rear admiral, it really won't complain. Or CSL doesn't have money for completion of INS Vikrant, but it isn't CSL issue but an MoD issue. And CSL chairman is an ex-commodore. Despite NPOL, we still need to import sonars, but don't hear too much noise about it.
So - my takeaway from this is that, giving services the operation control of DPSUs or having ex-officers run the shipyards really doesn't solve the core problem of delays. It only stops the gripes.
I'm not trying to be provocative here. There is a huge blame game on, and we don't hear the DRDO / DPSU perspectives in open source media and hence, tough questions need to be pondered over to understand what is really going on.{/quote}
Your point is well taken.
No shortage of gripers in the Navy, sirjee. or even out of it. The harshest critics are all in white uniform or retired from the IN. In no other service would the Chief have ever quit for any reason.
Scorpene issue is a political issue not an engineering one. Properly funded and kicked off it should bloom. saint anthony delayed funding for the carrier among many other projects because termite queen wanted money for herelect rahul baba schemeserr welfare schemes. The blasted dynasty even compromised national security and the minions willingly complied so that they could all continue to ride the gravy train.
So, as the fine ladies in hong kong say , "no money, no jig jig"
Once approved and funded, the IN generally brings the project home and that's the point that I was trying to make. The in house talent is encouraged, motivated and nurtured and the IN is way way far ahead on the indigenisation programs.
The IN is small, tightly knit and very highly technologically oriented, so much so, that due to the complexity of systems, the new intake of all officers henceforth is to comprise only of engineers from what one is hearing, well maybe not all, we still need doctors, of course.
Good post. However, it does not explain the giant time overruns on the surface warship projects, with Indian built vessels taking up to twice the time or more foreign yards/ navies take to build and commission warships. An area where the Navy has not stepped up to take ownership is conventional submarines, where we're still reliant on foreign technology. In the overall perspective of the Navy's otherwise successful adoption of the builder's role, this sticks out like a sore thumb. And lastly, let us not forget the Vikramaditya, a telling example of their failure in surveying, estimation and project management.
There are severe productivity issues with Indian PSU labor.
Many studies have been done to explain this, specially with regard to shipyard labor. Even in the Naval dockyards, they are heavily unionized and militant.
Overtime costs are horrendous and that is routinely paid to keep the peace.
Vikramadtiya was a complete snafu with the Navy relying totally on rusky estimates and thinking that the ruskies would deliver for old times sake.
The ruskies took us for a royal ride and just did not have the capabilities to refit the carrier. It should have been towed to it's original builder's yard and work done there but since that was in another country, the ruskies objected violently.
The ruskies practically built a new yard to do the work and benefited enormously from it, leaving us all to wonder if that was not the original hardnosed intent of the sale and refit contract.
The navy simply missed all the signs or chose to naively overlook it in the interest of good relations and foolishly banked on goodwill. They have learned a terrible lesson and the repercussions will live on for years to come. the Vik will be difficult to run and maintain because it's a "one off".
The Vizag shipyard is getting on with the very much delayed kilo refit and that will hopefully bear fruit in the near future, bringing another much needed boat into service.
What you say is mostly true but a lot of effort has always gone into the Naval projects and by and large, they have been more successful that many other projects.
edit, added later
There is no clarity on the govt policy on submarine building and it's associated infrastructure. This is a hot potato that no one is willing to touch. Hence the apparent "hands off" approach is the best way to avoid any career busting vigilance inquiries.
