rohitvats wrote:What Katoch said and what people are saying on this forum are two completely different things. Katoch said SPYDER being bought because Akash not mobile in the required sense and people are trying to present arguments as to why Akash fits the bills. And hence, SPYDER is not required.
Katoch is wrong in his assertion and so is everyone here who's trying to give convoluted arguments ranging from usual to more sophisticated.
If BRFites are wrong because no one bothered to do their research, then the onus is on them.
Katoch is not a BRFite. And people are at complete liberty to read or ignore him. But him being wrong does not mean BRFites use that as an excuse to put forth wrong arguments.
Issue is folks on the forum go by what "informed insiders" like Katoch say. If he makes convoluted arguments which present IA decision making in a poor light & vested interests make hay (eg a lot of media folks screaming about blow to Make in India etc), then forum will counter that, trying to show holes in his statements.
Getting upset at forum because they are falling prey to propaganda is one thing, but how much effort would it take the IA to put out a simple statement to the effect, QRSAM is a different role and hence issue solved. We have seen this issue time & again with claimed insiders putting their bias and agenda on the services & then forum responding, Pathankot to this, to that.
The services or ideally, MOD need to speak up IMHO and manage the issue, time has passed to let others drive the agenda. Even present GOI's MSM management leaves lots to be desired. Even a simple statement on MOD website to the effect QRSAM requirement.
Well, everyone gets invited to our circus for that is the nature of procurement program. What matters is we get o pick up the best system with reasonable price.
Problem is also that the "best system" may not really be the best because it lacks some attributes & has some others which are desirable but can compensate to a degree.
In each of the 3 systems, there were some attributes which are really required for this class of system:
- BAMSE - Giraffe mast mounted surveillance (long LOS)
- Tor - optimal mobility, no need for packup/ deploy, armored vehicle to accompany formations, search & track on move, and even fire on move. Great system but lacks fire and forget.
- SpyDer - fire & forget missiles with IIR & EO sights (passive/LPI capability). More of a repurpose of existing Elta solutions to meet market need.
Hope the IA now works on QRSAM to meet its needs more than an off the shelf import.
This is a more complicated issue than how you've put forth above.
The requirement for larger AD picture does not come into being only when you've crossed into enemy area.
It also arises when you're:
(a) deploying to your forward areas within your own border.
(b) When you're moving from Point A to Point B inside enemy's area. This involves canal/river crossing exercises.
(c) When you're static inside enemy areas
(d) When you're in contact with the enemy and have to be prepared for CAS from other side.
I never mentioned enemy area - I just mentioned static overwatch covering the other as it moves.
I am asking if we have figured out a way to transmit data to vehicles on the move already. Sort of a stop gap arrangement till ADC&RS comes - which will be several years away.
Organic self-propelled AD assets are required to provide cover in immediate over-head to the formations they're assigned to.
The question here is two fold:
(a) providing these AD assets with larger AD picture. For example, the radar on SPYDER has 60 km range. Other assets have even lesser range. But can I feed the AD picture to these units about enemy a/c when they're 100+ km away from them? Or, even farther?
This used to be done, or done even today through R/T. Remember old IAF videos showing ATC officers plotting the a/c location on transparent mounted map? Something like that.
But IA is working on Air Defense Control & Reporting System (ADC&RS). Here is the link from BEL website: http://www.bel-india.com/?q=ADC-RS
(b) Second question is this: who gives the feed to Army AD assets? IA relied on IAF for this. And IIRC, they also had a very limited holding of ST-68U radar to provide larger AD picture.
ADC&RS was meant to talk to IACCS to get long range data for IA, from IAF. However, its a long way away (a test bed just went into deployment), so I wonder how the systems "talk" to each other right now & hopefully its more than verbal cues on R/T.
But now, a version of 3D-CAR from Akash program seems to be proliferating into other AD assets. 2014 or 2015 R-Day Paradae had a contingent from an AD Regiment of IA which uses L-70 guns. This contingent had displayed the 3D-CAR derived TCR. And wikipedia tells me that this derivative of 3D-CAR has smaller foot-print that original one.
That is right. TCR is 90 km (vs 150km 3D CAR) but 2 vehicles.
What this means is that a L-70 regiment has an organic surveillance net of 90 km. You might well see more of these proliferate to other units. Whether IA goes for more powerful surveillance radars to develop organic surveillance capability over its AOR, remains to be seen.
IMHO., it must even if IAF sees as it impinging on its turf. Mobile surveillance radars which can pack up & deploy quickly. Some dozen MPRs (Arudhra class for instance) or even Ashwini LLTRs.http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4eSFSI61w0Y/V ... MRSR-2.jpg
But what is obvious is that whole jamboree of AD assets are going to be interlinked courtesy the digital AD coverage network. And even if Akash regiment cannot provide top missile cover to SPYDER, the surveillance feed from its radar and from wider AD network of IA and IAF will be available to even the fellow with MANPAD.
Now that, would be ideal.