First thanx for write a long post defending what you still think is an incorrect and way out post. Anyway to clarify my position, yes, my views (against imports and questioning their basic rationale) are against basic mainstream view. I have three main views:-
1. Indian defence has to be organised around our indigenous capabilities. The slogan-that everything cannot be done within India cannot be pretext
to import everything and/or label it as Indian by fake JV.
2. Indian R&D is massively and intentionally underfunded and lot of persons/nations have stake in keeping it that way.
3. Lot of imports are patently useless and/or existing indigenous capabilities can be used to replace them.
I know, inspite of my limited posts, I rile a lot of persons. I can meet them with data and abuse with abuse but problem is that if I use the same kind of language, while holding contrarian view, it will be termed as “trolling”. Note that many years ago T-90 vs Arjun debate was led on this forum by BRF amateur Nitin against super domain expert Ajai Shukla. And after almost of a decade of worshipping Ajai Shukla, we know a little more about him. Now coming to trainers:-
Lets take your view point:-
BTT can fly two sorties a day. 2 hours x 365 per annum. Around 400 flying cadets per annum need 60 hours per annum on BTT. So what do we get? (400x60)/(2x365) = 32 BTT trainers, why do we want 200?? (Even with One sortie or 1.5 sortie per day, we will not reach 200 BTT).
Data from UK, USA indicate that Hawk can fly on average of 60 hours per annum. So we get 60x12 hours per annum per AJT. Around 400 flying cadets need 60 hours per annum on BTT. So what do we get? (400x60)/(60x12)=33 AJT, why do we need 115?
Now coming to my equivalence of Pilatus with say Civilian Counterpart PC-21. I can understand that if I compare a tank with a truck then the mileage/usage hours could be very different. But how different would be availability of TATA Civilian trunk vs. TATA military truck? Not to forget that Pilatus has been sold to us a Civilian Aircraft with practically no high maintenance military component like “Radar”. Hence why not compare it with PC-21? In fact PC-21 is more complicated aircraft due to its pressurized cabin but still can give 2000 hours + per annum.
Lets say this view is wrong, but is it heresy? Have we not learnt of padding in Agusta Westland? Does this Pilatus deal not come with the same foul smell? What is the other relevant data provided by any other poster? Except to say Military is right. The point is that lion share of bribes go to Politicians and Babus but they hide their greed behind complicit Military Brass. Shiv pointed out in some posts, that it is possible that Babus, Middlemen and some corrupt Brass have formed a cabal which is even misleading our DM. Why is it impossible to extract more hours per annum from BTT and AJT?
Cross Post, Bold mine:-
shiv wrote:We need to wish Parikkar and our nation well. One term, one Parikkar will not be enough because the system is much bigger than the individual.
Even Parikkar can be checkmated by the system. For example there may be a single bad egg in the air force and 2-3 bad eggs in the MoD especially if they all coordinate their actions. Assume that the Air Force bad egg gets to make money from an import deal. if he is in a position of influence he can use his friends and channels to play up an import and play down the value of something that could be produced locally. He also tells his other kickback-gettng MoD friends that some deal needs to be scuttled.
What happens is that if some deal goes up to minister and he okays it, some babu will point out that the deal must go through environment ministry, or finance ministry or labour ministry or minorities ministry because Adivasi land is involved. The babu will then contact his friends in those ministries ad explain that this is a problem deal because Def minister may be getting a kickback and it needs to be scrutinized for environment/land/finance etc. So the papers for the deal keep on circulating in the government and even defence minister has to wait because he cannot make the paper move in the environment ministry.
With the government full of babus who are corrupt and Lutyens Delhi full of socialites who hobnob with rich middlemen who can influence babus and some senior officers - one honest minister is not enough.
There are always two sides to a story. if we assume that Antony was really honest we can explain why nothing went forward. Everything was corrupt and the only way he could delay the corrupt was by not making a decision. Parikkar has an even tougher job because he has to make things move despite endemic corruption and yet reduce the kickbacks that are undoubtedly still taking place and reduce the resistance to make in India that comes from foreign middlemen paying Indians to delay competing deals.
I get the general feeling that Modi and Parikkar have colluded to bypass the amount of slush money that would have been earned by the Rafale deal by first cutting the number from 126 to 36 and then delaying with intense bargaining for so long that the corrupt Indian babus and other middlemen who have money being paid will not be able to show results for getting the deal through. In the meantime I have heard Parikkar making a statement that no one seems to have commented upon. He said "In some cases in war missiles can be used instead of aircraft". It may have been coincidence but the Air Force tested a Brahmos within a few days of that statement
In other words what Parikkar and Modi may be doing is what the Chinese did when faced with sanctions. They relied on "strategic weapons" while they funded and encouraged local industry. In those days we used to laugh with our western democracy "friends" as Chinese rust buckets. Those friends are the ones paying Indians bribes now.
The time has come for us to encourage our rust bucket makers to buck up. The Chinese were lucky because of sanctions. Because we have no peacetime sanctions - it allows corrupt government officials and middlemen to flourish. Long delays help to make those corrupt people's actions ineffective - but there will be howls that our defence is going to dogs.
Note:- Very few persons have noted that Parrikar stated in his TV interview (line available on BRF) that an equipment sought to be imported for Rs. 1000 crore was converted to Make in India for only Rs 200 crore.