Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2777
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JTull » 31 May 2016 18:22

Karan M wrote:Not that we'd likely use them like that but the gall of some Pilatus dictating to India is just a bit much.


When you buy a brand new car that you've seen advertised at very attractive price, you'll find all the extra options that you'd like are way too expensive. You'd haggle on some of them but give up on most of them. India's L1 process is well known to include pricing for the bare minimums and we also know that IAF likes all the options, leaving lots of room for the seller to 'satisfy' everyone and get sticker prices. Well, sometimes, even some of the options may be too difficult to justify in the initial request (e.g., the first Jags lacking their AAR equipment, because we didn't have any tankers). I'm sure you can now pay Pilatus an arm and a leg to get these modified, but who cares anymore when we have a desi version flying.

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4699
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 31 May 2016 18:25

AeroIndia 2013 presentation by Prashant Singh Bhadoria, Senior Manager & Deputy Manager of The HTT-40 aircraft development program at HAL.


Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19835
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Karan M » 31 May 2016 18:47

Bhaskar_T wrote:Well, Pilatus with Baniya mentality must have ensured that India shouldn't do any jugaad thing to PC7 Mk2 instead should pay Franks to Pilatus for weaponizing the trainer aircraft. I guess HAL might do something similar to Israel or any other buyer.

Karan M wrote:Not that we'd likely use them like that but the gall of some Pilatus dictating to India is just a bit much.


its not that.. its like germany refusing to sell 70's era MP-5s to indian state forces citing hyoooooman rights.

i was against htt-40 (i thought it was yet another HAL diversion vs LCA) but after readin the above, may HAL win the bleddy race and convince IAF with proper trials.

sudeepj
BRFite
Posts: 1846
Joined: 27 Nov 2008 11:25

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby sudeepj » 31 May 2016 20:01

The biggest advantage of HTT will be that it will enable India to export armed versions of these aircrafts to countries like Afghanistan, Myanmar, Nepal etc. to manage insurgencies. There is a serious need for turboprop aircraft equipped with the latest electronic equipment for close air support by countries that cant operate fast jets.

rgosain
BRFite
Posts: 441
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 12:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby rgosain » 31 May 2016 20:16

Lovely performance. It also makes a lot of sense for universities and engineering colleges to have their own flying clubs with these aircraft. Leisure and sports flying is a large growing business globally and an aircraft such as this can be pitched for such markets. Building out in larger numbers also brings down costs and creates new avenues for development

sudeepj
BRFite
Posts: 1846
Joined: 27 Nov 2008 11:25

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby sudeepj » 31 May 2016 20:21

What will HTT have that the pilatus doesnt?

Source:
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 068_1.html

1. Stringent Swiss end-user restrictions prohibit weaponising the PC-7 Mark II.
2. No zero zero ejection seat. PC-7 Mk II has ‘zero-60’ ejection seats.
3. The PC-7 Mark II has an unpressurised cockpit.
4. The PC-7 Mark II does not have ‘in-flight simulation’ permits the instructor in the rear cockpit to electronically simulate instrument failures, training the rookie pilot to handle an emergency.


http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2016/05/ ... oised.html

The HTT-40 features a pressurised cockpit, “zero-zero” ejection seats, and a state-of-the-art cockpit display with “in-flight simulation” that permits an instructor in the rear cockpit to electronically simulate various system failures, training the rookie pilot in the front seat in handling emergencies.

Mihir
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 880
Joined: 14 Nov 2004 21:26

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Mihir » 31 May 2016 21:40

shiv wrote:3. At the end of the video right wing was slightly down.

Saar, we at BRF were perfectly happy towards the end of that video. :mrgreen:

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5346
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Kartik » 31 May 2016 22:17

Why, oh why isn't HAL making a big deal out of the first flight event? No good video, no good pics, nothing! :(

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19835
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Karan M » 31 May 2016 22:20

they have learned from IJT perhaps. much ado at that time.

Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1653
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Sid » 31 May 2016 22:24

HAL used to have some PR group, which AKM used to head. After he was let go I guess that whole PR thing went down really fast. Apart from spending millions on products, a good communications/PR/lobbying group is essential for any commercial entity. Specially for a firm with revenues/size like HAL.

I know HAL is a GOI entity but still money spent on PR is a force multiplier. Someone from higher management just needs to make a case for it (I guess).

rakall
BRFite
Posts: 798
Joined: 10 May 2005 10:26

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby rakall » 31 May 2016 22:26

Kartik wrote:Why, oh why isn't HAL making a big deal out of the first flight event? No good video, no good pics, nothing! :(


Karan M wrote:they have learned from IJT perhaps. much ado at that time.


This is unofficial first flight..

I think more PR will follow the official first flight attended by some big wigs..

Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1183
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Gyan » 31 May 2016 22:33

Philip wrote:Why not indeed.What is the average utilisation rate of other air forces operating the same type? Any chance of obtaining stats?


If we look at Civilian versions of Pilatus, they can put in 1000-2000 hrs per annum. Indian Pilatus is practically a Civilian aircraft with no military role. Hence for 400 cadets x 80 hours per annum, we need (400x80)/2000= 30-40 Pilatus, if we maximize their use, till HTT-40 takes over in large numbers.

Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1183
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Gyan » 31 May 2016 22:39

Philip wrote:Why not indeed.What is the average utilisation rate of other air forces operating the same type? Any chance of obtaining stats?


Hawk is supposed to have utilization rate of 60 hours per month in UK, and around 20 hours per month in India.

Civilian Piltus are putting in around 1000-2000hours per annum abroad while IAF is using them for around 250 hours per annum.

My feeling is that BTT, AJT orders are being inflated Agusta helo style.

DexterM
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 372
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby DexterM » 31 May 2016 22:45

You ought to post a link to a source for this information. Else, it is simply hearsay and a rant.
And quite deserving of mod action because you imply some acts of omission and commission without backing your statement with facts and proof.

For instance: http://www.forceindia.net/TrainingonTrack.aspx
According to Air Vice Marshal V.R. Chaudhuri, deputy commandant AFA Dundigal, “The training syllabus has been increased to 55 hours per trainee from the earlier 25 hours. The solo content has also increased to 14 sorties from only one sortie earlier. This amounts to the task of approximately 1,200 hours per month, making it approximately 60-70 sorties per day on PC-7 MK-II aircraft.” The IAF is looking at an utilisation rate of 300 flying hours per year per aircraft. The PC-7 MK-II has a design life of 10,000 hours and 30,000 landings per aircraft. By the end of August, the fleet had already logged 3,000 flight hours with almost 5,600 landings, and serviceability for the PC-7 MK-II fleet was at 81 per cent. Chief Instructor (Flying) at AFA Dundigal, Air Commodore Nagesh Kapoor tells FORCE, “The rate of flying is very high and that speaks a lot about the maintainability of the aircraft. Earlier, we would need three to four people looking after one aircraft, presently one aircraft is looked after by one person, which is very good. It is very easy on fuel and has tremendous endurance.” He goes on to add, “We are really exploiting this machine and we are doing a whole lot of flying. By the end of this course we would have ended up flying twice as much as we would have done six months earlier.”

There are articles that talk up the numbers in terms of 12,000 hours and so on for 40 a/c. Would you have the source for all 75 and how many hours are being done a month now?

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19835
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Karan M » 31 May 2016 23:57

with pilatus IAF also has a benchmark for HTT40 to meet and also time for HTT40 to actually grow into the role.

Khalsa
BRFite
Posts: 1694
Joined: 12 Nov 2000 12:31
Location: NZL

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Khalsa » 01 Jun 2016 00:04

A red letter day of sorts for Indian Aviation again yesterday. The drama of HAL vs IAF spicing up this, just the right amount.
Build it and they will come or MP will drag them by the ears or cut their funding off.
We should not be pumping our millions into the mega mansions that stand beside lake geneva. Enough of the third world funding the richest ferraris.

Our money stays here, thank you very much.
That way we don't have to begging for offsets this and offsets that, makes us look like a beggar who is demanding a place at the dinner table.

Its time for the Indian Military Forces to become the builder's army/ airforce form a deep seated relationship with the Industrial complex.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16829
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 01 Jun 2016 03:35

HTT-40 completes maiden flight successfully

Three months after the first prototype was unveiled on February 2, the home-grown Hindustan Turbo Trainer-40 (HTT-40), a basic trainer aircraft, took to the skies for the first time on Tuesday and completed a basic flight of about 25 minutes without glitches.

Stating that the aircraft was piloted by an HAL test pilot who did not try out any specific manoeuvres, sources said, it had completed the high-speed taxi trials a few days ago.

KBDagha
BRFite
Posts: 160
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 21:47
Location: Mumbai

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby KBDagha » 01 Jun 2016 11:12

Nice pic of HAL HTT-40 BTA

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/737878383795802112

courtsey: Sanjay Simha

Bhaskar_T
BRFite
Posts: 275
Joined: 13 Feb 2011 19:09

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Bhaskar_T » 01 Jun 2016 12:10

Did not get to hear anything on chase aircraft. So, this HTT-40 Maiden Flight wasn't followed by a chase aircraft? If not, then why (Similar to LCA-Tejas maiden flight, few issues could be spotted by chase aircraft, if they are any issues at all).

JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2777
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JTull » 01 Jun 2016 12:19

Bhaskar_T wrote:Did not get to hear anything on chase aircraft. So, this HTT-40 Maiden Flight wasn't followed by a chase aircraft? If not, then why (Similar to LCA-Tejas maiden flight, few issues could be spotted by chase aircraft, if they are any issues at all).


There was an HJT-16 doing the job, I read somewhere.

here it is. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7098&start=2000#p2024570

deejay
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4008
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby deejay » 01 Jun 2016 12:37

Sanjay Simha and I was there watching this together (coincidentally). There were others. He has many more pics and I am sure he has a picture with the Chase plane and HTT 40 together. Maybe, he will share.

manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2483
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby manjgu » 01 Jun 2016 16:39

AVM DN Rathore VrC, VSM passed away in chandigarh 2 days ago..RIP.

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7734
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby rohitvats » 01 Jun 2016 18:30

Gyan wrote: Hawk is supposed to have utilization rate of 60 hours per month in UK, and around 20 hours per month in India.
Civilian Piltus are putting in around 1000-2000hours per annum abroad while IAF is using them for around 250 hours per annum.
My feeling is that BTT, AJT orders are being inflated Agusta helo style.


After Shanghai statistics, Lahori Logic and Madrassa Mathematics, we've our own version ---->>> Gyan's Ganit! :mrgreen:

PS: that's is Gyan's mathematics in English.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 01 Jun 2016 18:54

Bhaskar_T wrote:Did not get to hear anything on chase aircraft. So, this HTT-40 Maiden Flight wasn't followed by a chase aircraft? If not, then why (Similar to LCA-Tejas maiden flight, few issues could be spotted by chase aircraft, if they are any issues at all).

You missed deejay's post. There was a HJT-16 chase aircraft

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Surya » 01 Jun 2016 19:00

Gyan posted 3 whole sentences this time - come on -- he is trying hard :mrgreen:

me posting single sentence onlee

srin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2033
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srin » 01 Jun 2016 19:01

In the meanwhile, any news on the IJT ?

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8224
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Indranil » 01 Jun 2016 22:07

CONGRATULATIONS HAL!!! I have supported this project from its inception. So, I am super happy. The jingo in me still wanted to see them retract the wheel and perform some acrobatics in the first flight itself, in honour of their inspiration: Dr. Ghatge, Capt. Jimmy Munshi and the HT-2.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19835
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Karan M » 01 Jun 2016 23:58

CONGRATULATIONS HAL!!! I have supported this project from its inception.

yep. credit where it is due. most of us otherwise, on BRF were cribbing about it being a mistaken effort (including moi). now with the pilatus getting used up, this seems to be a good decision. deejay, nilesh, u and some others were the hold outs.

now all upto HAL to make a beauty out of this and win IAFs trust.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19835
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Karan M » 02 Jun 2016 00:05

btw, looks like 68+more HTT-40 are in the offing.

IMHO, this is exactly what is needed. a gentle touch, wink, nod, nudge approach with IAF to have it support the program (as versus "shove it yada yada") and the IAF will do what is required. also, at the same time meet IAFs urgent operational needs with existing programs.

work together. fingers crossed on success.


http://www.livefistdefence.com/2015/02/ ... -more.html

The Indian Ministry of Defence has just approved the Indian Air Force’s move to exercise options on its original basic trainer deal (for 75 aircraft) with Pilatus Aircraft and will shortly sign up for 38 more. Of a total of 181 basic trainers the IAF has said it needs, the original Pilatus PC-7 Mk.2 order takes care of 75 aircraft.

The remaining 106 aircraft were to be HAL’s in-development HTT-40 propeller trainer that’s all set to take-off for the first time this month. With the IAF approved to exercise options on 38 more PC-7s, HAL’s platform will meet the remaining requirement: 68 aircraft. Indications are, however, that that number will be cranked up to make the project more viable in the near term.

An IAF-HAL-MoD committee is being set up to monitor the HTT-40 programme. The HTT-40 prototype is all set for its first flight in June.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16829
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 02 Jun 2016 00:07


Khalsa
BRFite
Posts: 1694
Joined: 12 Nov 2000 12:31
Location: NZL

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Khalsa » 02 Jun 2016 00:15

Bhaskar_T wrote:Did not get to hear anything on chase aircraft. So, this HTT-40 Maiden Flight wasn't followed by a chase aircraft? If not, then why (Similar to LCA-Tejas maiden flight, few issues could be spotted by chase aircraft, if they are any issues at all).


The IAF refused to loan a Pilatus to do the job
:D :D :D :D :D :D


Once again the Photo by Sanjay Simha is brilliant.
Nothing ...nothing makes me more excited than fresh morning air and fresh primer paint on the aircrafts.

Carpe Diem

Bhurishrava
BRFite
Posts: 477
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Bhurishrava » 02 Jun 2016 00:26

http://www.financialexpress.com/article ... ia/270524/

ADA Group's Reliance Defence has signed a strategic partnership agreement with Ukraine-based ANTONOV for assembly, manufacture and MRO of Antonov platforms in India for both commercial as well as military aircraft.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8224
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Indranil » 02 Jun 2016 01:40

People, get off Gyan's back.

Gyan wrote:If we look at Civilian versions of Pilatus, they can put in 1000-2000 hrs per annum. Indian Pilatus is practically a Civilian aircraft with no military role. Hence for 400 cadets x 80 hours per annum, we need (400x80)/2000= 30-40 Pilatus, if we maximize their use, till HTT-40 takes over in large numbers.


People are making fun of you because you have been so far off and for so long, that nobody can take your posts seriously. You perennial crying wolf posts have made your good posts go unnoticed. I will give you my personal example. You had a wonderful post about "ball-bearings" recently, and I completely skipped over it. I only noticed it when Hakim had commented over it!

This particular post for example shows your ignorance, and I will show you how far off you are. You are really lucky that BRF is so tolerant these days. In the good old days, you would have fried for days on end.

Even when unarmed, modern military aircrafts are very far from civilian aircrafts. That's why the HTT-40 is not the same as a Hansa. Writing about the differences will fill pages here. Suffice to say that in steady state, you want to get 1 sortie per high performance BTT per day. That's how, you get to the numbers that IAF is asking for. For short durations, one would be happy to get two sorties per plane per day. This is what you find IAF reporting with the initial batch of PC7-MKIIs. By the way, they have a very robust system of setting requirements which is vetted at many levels within IAF, then MoD, then MoF and finally independently at CAG. Nobody till now has ever questioned the number of basic-trainers involved, except you! When that happens, it is a sign to recheck your math and your knowledge of the systems.

JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2777
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JTull » 02 Jun 2016 05:56

indranilroy wrote:BRF is so tolerant these days


Whaaat? You've just let loose all desi intellectual hounds on yourself. :D

Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1183
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Gyan » 02 Jun 2016 19:30

Re Indranil

First thanx for write a long post defending what you still think is an incorrect and way out post. Anyway to clarify my position, yes, my views (against imports and questioning their basic rationale) are against basic mainstream view. I have three main views:-

1. Indian defence has to be organised around our indigenous capabilities. The slogan-that everything cannot be done within India cannot be pretext to import everything and/or label it as Indian by fake JV.

2. Indian R&D is massively and intentionally underfunded and lot of persons/nations have stake in keeping it that way.

3. Lot of imports are patently useless and/or existing indigenous capabilities can be used to replace them.

I know, inspite of my limited posts, I rile a lot of persons. I can meet them with data and abuse with abuse but problem is that if I use the same kind of language, while holding contrarian view, it will be termed as “trolling”. Note that many years ago T-90 vs Arjun debate was led on this forum by BRF amateur Nitin against super domain expert Ajai Shukla. And after almost of a decade of worshipping Ajai Shukla, we know a little more about him. Now coming to trainers:-

Lets take your view point:-

BTT can fly two sorties a day. 2 hours x 365 per annum. Around 400 flying cadets per annum need 60 hours per annum on BTT. So what do we get? (400x60)/(2x365) = 32 BTT trainers, why do we want 200?? (Even with One sortie or 1.5 sortie per day, we will not reach 200 BTT).

Data from UK, USA indicate that Hawk can fly on average of 60 hours per annum. So we get 60x12 hours per annum per AJT. Around 400 flying cadets need 60 hours per annum on BTT. So what do we get? (400x60)/(60x12)=33 AJT, why do we need 115?

Now coming to my equivalence of Pilatus with say Civilian Counterpart PC-21. I can understand that if I compare a tank with a truck then the mileage/usage hours could be very different. But how different would be availability of TATA Civilian trunk vs. TATA military truck? Not to forget that Pilatus has been sold to us a Civilian Aircraft with practically no high maintenance military component like “Radar”. Hence why not compare it with PC-21? In fact PC-21 is more complicated aircraft due to its pressurized cabin but still can give 2000 hours + per annum.

Lets say this view is wrong, but is it heresy? Have we not learnt of padding in Agusta Westland? Does this Pilatus deal not come with the same foul smell? What is the other relevant data provided by any other poster? Except to say Military is right. The point is that lion share of bribes go to Politicians and Babus but they hide their greed behind complicit Military Brass. Shiv pointed out in some posts, that it is possible that Babus, Middlemen and some corrupt Brass have formed a cabal which is even misleading our DM. Why is it impossible to extract more hours per annum from BTT and AJT?


Cross Post, Bold mine:-

shiv wrote:We need to wish Parikkar and our nation well. One term, one Parikkar will not be enough because the system is much bigger than the individual.

Even Parikkar can be checkmated by the system. For example there may be a single bad egg in the air force and 2-3 bad eggs in the MoD especially if they all coordinate their actions. Assume that the Air Force bad egg gets to make money from an import deal. if he is in a position of influence he can use his friends and channels to play up an import and play down the value of something that could be produced locally. He also tells his other kickback-gettng MoD friends that some deal needs to be scuttled.

What happens is that if some deal goes up to minister and he okays it, some babu will point out that the deal must go through environment ministry, or finance ministry or labour ministry or minorities ministry because Adivasi land is involved. The babu will then contact his friends in those ministries ad explain that this is a problem deal because Def minister may be getting a kickback and it needs to be scrutinized for environment/land/finance etc. So the papers for the deal keep on circulating in the government and even defence minister has to wait because he cannot make the paper move in the environment ministry.

With the government full of babus who are corrupt and Lutyens Delhi full of socialites who hobnob with rich middlemen who can influence babus and some senior officers - one honest minister is not enough.

There are always two sides to a story. if we assume that Antony was really honest we can explain why nothing went forward. Everything was corrupt and the only way he could delay the corrupt was by not making a decision. Parikkar has an even tougher job because he has to make things move despite endemic corruption and yet reduce the kickbacks that are undoubtedly still taking place and reduce the resistance to make in India that comes from foreign middlemen paying Indians to delay competing deals.

I get the general feeling that Modi and Parikkar have colluded to bypass the amount of slush money that would have been earned by the Rafale deal by first cutting the number from 126 to 36 and then delaying with intense bargaining for so long that the corrupt Indian babus and other middlemen who have money being paid will not be able to show results for getting the deal through. In the meantime I have heard Parikkar making a statement that no one seems to have commented upon. He said "In some cases in war missiles can be used instead of aircraft". It may have been coincidence but the Air Force tested a Brahmos within a few days of that statement

In other words what Parikkar and Modi may be doing is what the Chinese did when faced with sanctions. They relied on "strategic weapons" while they funded and encouraged local industry. In those days we used to laugh with our western democracy "friends" as Chinese rust buckets. Those friends are the ones paying Indians bribes now.

The time has come for us to encourage our rust bucket makers to buck up. The Chinese were lucky because of sanctions. Because we have no peacetime sanctions - it allows corrupt government officials and middlemen to flourish. Long delays help to make those corrupt people's actions ineffective - but there will be howls that our defence is going to dogs.


Note:- Very few persons have noted that Parrikar stated in his TV interview (line available on BRF) that an equipment sought to be imported for Rs. 1000 crore was converted to Make in India for only Rs 200 crore.

Y. Kanan
BRFite
Posts: 811
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Y. Kanan » 02 Jun 2016 23:11

shiv wrote:
Y. Kanan wrote:People need to stop living in the past. It's 2016 and there hasn't been an air-to-air gun kill since 1965,

Really?


Yep. Really.

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11209
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Gagan » 03 Jun 2016 01:39

srai wrote:AeroIndia 2013 presentation by Prashant Singh Bhadoria, Senior Manager & Deputy Manager of The HTT-40 aircraft development program at HAL.


Excellent video,
You beat me to posting this here.
The IAF types need to be made to sit and watch a presentation like this - in angrezi by a young it-vity type engineer. Then they'll realize what hard work HAL/DRDO do. That old generation who had those 'kallu' remarks are old vintages with fossilized thoughts, who are unfortunately going to be in leadership position for the next decade or so.

MoD has to get more IAF and HAL types on the same platform for there to be better understanding of each other.

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11209
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Gagan » 03 Jun 2016 01:47


Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11209
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Gagan » 03 Jun 2016 02:15

Machuka ALG has a runway that is 1.25Km long. It could still be extended, if some landfilling and some houses are relocated to like a 2Km runway.

That being said, the C-130J has a takeoff distance of 953m (3127 ft) with a 70 t MTOW per wikichacha - dunno if at sea level
The landing distance is supposedly 945m (3100 ft) per its official brochure.

Although it was planned for a landing on an iranian soccer field, and did land (and then took off) on a supercarrier unaided with either the arrester cable or the steam catapult for takeoff!

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 03 Jun 2016 05:24

Y. Kanan wrote:People need to stop living in the past. It's 2016 and there hasn't been an air-to-air gun kill since 1965,

Bullshit will be called out:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Database/10877
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/histo ... asand.html


Return to “Military Issues Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests