'Make in India' Single engined fighter

[chola]

Endless supplies of this world-class platform with whatever variations we want.

Please explain on how we can have endless supplies of the world-class platform in whatever variations?

Please read my earlier posts:

1. India is critical to US counter of the PRC
2. F-16 line is ending for US in favor of F-35
3. Use PRC's endless stream of J-11/15/16 clones of Su-27 and Russian aquiescence as a model.

Using 1) and 2) we can negotiate what the chinis did with 3). The difference being we'll get a world-class western platform while they got russian junk.

To me it seems like what you are suggesting is, reverse engineering F-16 right from the scratch...

No, read my earlier posts, I believe they were only able to make viable clones ONLY because of help and involvement of the originators of the system they were cloning. In the Su-27 clones case, it was Sukhoi.

I am saying that this is a viable strategy that we can use with Lockheed Marten. The F-16 line is going away for them so it is not inconcievably that Unkil is willing to give up this "obsolete" system for a partner they want in cordoning off the PRC. A system that is obsolete only for US but more reliable and powerful than almost anything the rest of Asia owns.

[chola]

And US kept all the secrets of f-16 safe from porkis all these years?

Applying same lahori logic, we can also conclude, looking at J31, that Americans have given away stealth secrets and F35 blueprints to Chinis.

Read my earlier posts. Pakis would lose to India even if the IA were armed with nothing but lathi. The weight of India is such the porkis can never win.

Again, read my posts. The chinis would NOT have gotten their clones flying without the help and aquiescence of Russia. The Russians could have clobbered their JF-17 and J-10 projects by withholding their engines if they wanted to stop the J-11/15/16 cloning programs.

Name one successful chini clone of an US product. There are none. The J-31 itself is unwanted by the PLAF and PLAN. Why? Because unlike the Russians, the Americans never helped.

[chola]

Again, 120 F-16 for the IAF will dominate in Asia and that includes the PRC. F-16 with AMRAAM versus Russian clones? Are you kidding me? It would not be close.

Err...you are forgetting Chinese are also copying TFTA American maal - They have a significant information gotten from espionage from B2/F22/F35 programs.

Espionage, not direct help. Again, what cloned US system have the PRC put into service? The J-11 is a damn identical copy of the Su-27! Something you would see only in ToT!

I will make things easier for you. Leave "Russian CRAP" (I mean seriously?? ) aside, which one will dominate Asia in next few decades, tell me, copies of F16 or copies of F22/F35?? You tell me, I don't know $hit about F16/F22/F35.

What "copies" of F22/F35? The F-22 will not be anywhere but the US. The F-35 will be the originals built for the US and its Allies. Ones that INDIA would most likely be in line for if the F-16 deal went through.

Even if one decides to take your hyperbole of "endless supplies" of F16 seriously, do you really think India can produce more nos of jets as compared to China??

Hint - this is what Americans are saying:
https://news.usni.org/2014/11/05/u-s-pi ... -f-22-f-35

“I think they’ll eventually be on par with our fifth gen jets — as they should be, because industrial espionage is alive and well.”

The senior U.S. pilot familiar with the F-35 — who has extensive experience flying the Lockheed Martin F-16 Falcon — told USNI News the Chinese jet is now likely more than match for existing fourth generation non stealth American fighters like the Air Force Falcons, Boeing F-15 Eagles and the U.S. Navy’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

The J-20 is a Russian-aided rework of the MiG-1.44 not a F-22/F35 clone. Even its damn engines are russian.

And yes, our few hundreds of F-16s with AMRAAM would dominate their many hundreds of Russian clones with Russian derived BVR missiles that might or might not work.

Now, if it were a fight between our Russian crap like the MKI, MiG-21and -27 and their Russian crap then we would lose because of numbers.

For Americans, India is the same with respect to China, as what Pak was with respect to India - a Pawn.

No, taking the F-16 line would not automatically make you a pawn. Taking the F-16 line and turning it into a base of technology for your own benefit (like the chinis did with the Su-27) by negotiating in India's interest would definitely not make you a pawn.

[JayS]

^^
OK Chola, I give in to your arguments. My last post on this.

So it is done, folks. We Scrap LCA, AMCA, FGFA. Stop production of Su30 with immediate effect and return all Su30 to Russians in protest of their help to China. Retire all MiGs early. We gift Jaguars, M2K and MiG29 to Afganistan. I mean who needs Russian Crap and European junk anyways. We will cancel Rafale deal as well.

IAF will entirely be composed of endless nos of F16s. We will make 100 F16 and then copy everything using US help and make 100's of desi clones of F16s. IAF will use F16 as medium weight fighter, a smaller F16 as Light Combat jet and a much bigger scaled F16 as heavy class jet. Imagine if 100 F16 with AMRAAM can dominate Asia, what 700 of them could do. We will dominate Europe and Africa as well and Inshah Allah, if we make 1000 of them, we will dominate America itself. AoA..

[chola]

^^
OK Chola, I give in to your arguments. My last post on this.

So it is done, folks. We Scrap LCA, AMCA, FGFA. Stop production of Su30 with immediate effect and return all Su30 to Russians in protest of their help to China. Retire all MiGs early. We gift Jaguars, M2K and MiG29 to Afganistan. I mean who needs Russian Crap and European junk anyways. We will cancel Rafale deal as well.

IAF will entirely be composed of endless nos of F16s. We will make 100 F16 and then copy everything using US help and make 100's of desi clones of F16s. Imagine if 100 F16 with AMRAAM can dominate Asia, what 700 of them could do. We will dominate Europe and Africa as well and Inshah Allah, if we make 1000 of them, we will dominate America itself. AoA..

Nope, I would keep the Rafales and M2Ks (Jaguars are just too old.)

They are first-rate western systems. Not Russian crap that killed more of our pilots than porkis can ever hope for in several hundred lifetimes.

Again, I would give up the F-16 if we were to concentrate on the LCA. But if this single-engine RFI goes forward, I hope for the F-16 to get us on the road to freedom from Russian crap.

[chola]

^^
IAF will use F16 as medium weight fighter, a smaller F16 as Light Combat jet and a much bigger scaled F16 as heavy class jet.

I would propose a LCA upgrade with F-16 technology for the light fighter requirement and then grab the F-15 line (set to end in 2019/20) for the heavy. I'm getting goosebumps!

[JayS]

They are first-rate western systems. Not Russian crap that killed more of our pilots than porkis can ever hope for in several hundred lifetimes.

Had we gone for F104 (the "Widow Maker" ) instead of MiG-21, what do you think would have happened??

BTW When is F18 line closing?? Why leave IN high and dry haan ji?? And we will have full set of the Teens. Special collectors edition.

Note to mods: Please feel free to delete any of my above posts.

[Yagnasri]

I am a mango man here. But are if you saying Su30 or Mig29 are crap then I have to differ. That is not the feedback we get from anywhere including from Gurus here. Even Mig21s had their day and considered quite good in their time. They may have their set of problems but the same goes to US made systems also. Only other kind of problems.

As far as being flying caffin concerned I think F16 was the original owner of that title. Of course as a mango man I may be wrong here. But that is what i read somewhere.

[JayS]

As far as being flying caffin concerned I think F16 was the original owner of that title. Of course as a mango man I may be wrong here. But that is what i read somewhere.

F104 - Widow Maker..

[deejay]

I am a mango man here. But are if you saying Su30 or Mig29 are crap then I have to differ. That is not the feedback we get from anywhere including from Gurus here. Even Mig21s had their day and considered quite good in their time. They may have their set of problems but the same goes to US made systems also. Only other kind of problems.

As far as being flying caffin concerned I think F16 was the original owner of that title. Of course as a mango man I may be wrong here. But that is what i read somewhere.

They are crap to only those who never saw the yeoman service these platforms performed. Calling something crap when these were the machines we fought with and praising platforms which were denied to us or were sanctioned out of use when need arose speaks volumes of where the person is coming from.

F16 - has served the Pakis faithfully. Today it is a fighter on its last legs. The manufacturer wants to maximize its money out of it and therefore will dump its assembly line on India if we give in. Be rest assured, once the assembly line is in India, the same voices will sing peans for the F35 assembly line. It will never end. The utopian world of fanboys can not see beyond their own likes and dislikes. It does not add value to discussions but does add to the noise.

So, kindly ignore those displaying fanboyish worship of particular platforms.

[chola]

BTW When is F18 line closing?? Why leave IN high and dry haan ji?? And we will have full set of the Teens. Special collectors edition

I like your thought process. The F-18 line would probably end around the same period as the F-15. But we would need a CATOBAR carrier to make it really work for the IN. Though plenty of advanced nations (Australya, Canada, Finland, etc) have made it their chief land based fighter.

Oh yes, the F-18 would be very nice in Indian tri-color.

[Manish_Sharma]

Read my earlier posts. Pakis would lose to India even if the IA were armed with nothing but lathi.

Then what is the need for F-16, if lathi is enough?

[chola]

F104 - Window Maker..

Are you in IT?

BTW, the F-104 and F-16 had far less crashes than MiGs. Those titles were given relative to other western systems and they occurred mainly in their early marks unlike Russian jets which killed its pilots consistently in the IAF no matter which model or variant.

[chola]

Read my earlier posts. Pakis would lose to India even if the IA were armed with nothing but lathi.

Then what is the need for F-16, if lathi is enough?

For our northeastern border, we would need something heavier like the F-solah onlee.

[Pratyush]

This thread was never a good idea to begin with. But is fully heading to the loony bin with the last few pages.

IB4TL

[Marten]

It must be an awesome plane, this F-16. I mean it can defeat every platform the IAF has, including the M2Ks, the Su30MKI, and even the Rafael? After all, the same Skardu based Solas drove away our M2Ks as well as the Baazs. That's how we didn't manage to disrupt the Baki supply chain, and thereby lost the Kargil war. Truly great plane, this Sola.

Against such opposition, what chance could a wee little combat aircraft have! My apologies for supporting it. We must abandon all indigenous manufacture and switch entirely to assembly, as deigned by the expharts.

[Manish_Sharma]

Sometime back I had wrote this :
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7029&p=2045831&hili ... h#p2045765

Manish_Sharma wrote :
When Russians started their air campaign in Syria, my heart went out to them. Tchhh! I thought now their aircrafts are going to fall out of sky due to the inferiority of their tech. They don't have any air to air adversery and still their aircrafts will go down, the western media will mock them.

But as the campaign continued, day after day, week after week & month after month no russian aircraft fell out of sky.

Strange thing happened what was a sympathy for russians turned into anger for them slowly, how come our migs and sukhois keep crashing while russian ones don't?

The answer is simple, they supply 3rd rate stuff to us, don't respect the contracts, supply of parts is inadequate.

It can't be that IAF ground staff or HAL manufacturing is so inferior as to have that much of efficiency gap as "IAF crashes" vs "No Syrian campaign crash" with russians. Though a certain russia loving poster indicates in that direction indirectly many times.

Karan M wrote and corrected me :

Manish, being the manufacturer they can stockpile more parts and probably spend more on spares.

If you see the revenue and capital budgets - under congress govt, both were declining constantly. The usual trick is to announce a great budget (spare come under revenue) and then return the money to finmin using pliant bureaucrats in MOD who hinder acquisition. And also use leverage on certain services, acquisition folks to announce and push for grandiose capital expenditure even while revenue budget is a mess.
Some platforms which were "first time" for russia end up being full of bugs which india ended up debugging. Su-30 is an example. Albeit successful to a degree. It can attain 70% plus rates, current is 60% (up from 50% when Parrikar came).

MiG-29K, T-90 are somewhat unsuccessful ones. T-90 can still be fixed if India manages the TI sight issue.

Regarding Su-30, the last holdout is its EW fit. The simpler answer there is to bypass DARE/complex multi-vendor fits and just take whatever works on that planform from Russia.

For those who asked what the answer for R77 non availability is - its Astra. That has to be the long term answer and even the short one, from next year.

So don't just write that all the russian and Bharatiya stuff is crap only NATO western european and american stuff is good.

Remember Chola ji our soldiers defeated their sabres and pattons not just grinding paki but american pride under their foot too.

[chola]

It must be an awesome plane, this F-16. I mean it can defeat every platform the IAF has, including the M2Ks, the Su30MKI, and even the Rafael? After all, the same Skardu based Solas drove away our M2Ks as well as the Baazs. That's how we didn't manage to disrupt the Baki supply chain, and thereby lost the Kargil war. Truly great plane, this Sola.

Against such opposition, what chance could a wee little combat aircraft have! My apologies for supporting it. We must abandon all indigenous manufacture and switch entirely to assembly, as deigned by the expharts.

Again, my personally feeling is the current theat level of the porki and the cheenise clones are not immediate enough for us to abandon making the LCA, AMCA or any of our indigenous projects our core priorities.

But if our netas say we must go phoren onlee on this single engine fighter, I do hope for the F-16. That is all. Maybe we wake up tomorrow and this RFI is a dream onlee. Maybe.

[chola]

So don't just write that all the russian and Bharatiya stuff is crap only NATO western european and american stuff is good.

Please do not put words in my mouth. I said RUSSIAN stuff are crap onlee. And Russian planes do fall out of the sky in Russia and Syria. Just like the chinis, they are just impossible to report on. We see it in our faces with their crap in the IAF and the rest of our armed forces. So who are you going to believe?

Remember Chola ji our soldiers defeated their sabres and pattons not just grinding paki but american pride under their foot too.

Again, you are projecting paki incompetence onto their weapons. There are 1 billion of us vs 200 million of them.
They will always lose.

Now look at Israel vs the Arabs. Two million vs 100 million. And not only are they VASTLY OUTNUMBERED (unlike us with the porkis), judging by standard of living, education, etc. Arabs are a wee more competent than porkis.

Yet the Israelis were able to annihilate the arabs with very low losses to their own (kill record of F-15/16 vs arab's russkie jets is like 80-0.)

And Jews were known as passive shopkeepers and accountants onlee -- before getting their hands on Unkil's weapons!

[rohitvats]

The LCA will never hit the 200 – 300 mark at the support it is getting now from the IAF. A maximum of 120 – 130 air-frames will be ordered and they will share the same fate as the Marut.<SNIP>

Why is an order for 200 or 300 LCA only seen as supporting the program and not 120? Because of percentage share of LCA in overall number of fighters which IAF fields and will field?

If above be the case, then here are couple of questions to you and everyone else who brings out numbers in similar range:

- Can this number be divorced from overall force structure of IAF basis current and future threat perceptions?

- LCA was conceived to replace Mig-21 in IAF service. But guess what, most of the Mig-21/23/27 fleet has been replaced by Su-30. You think this does not impact the slot available for Tejas in overall matrix?

- In an ideal scenario, IAF would've had Su-30MKI (272)+Rafale (126)+Tejas (120) = 518 aircraft.
To above add Mig-29 (60), Mirage-2000 (59) and Jaguar (~120). - another 240 aircraft.
This gives a total of 758 aircraft or about 42 squadrons @ 18 a/c per squadron.

There is a very stark lesson in those numbers - 36% of your fleet strength is composed of heavy-fighter aircraft. Adding MMRCA + Mig-29 + Mirage-2000 gives 32% of fleet as medium category. I'm deliberately leaving out Jaguar from this calculation. If I add Jaguar to medium category, we've 47% of fleet as medium.

That is 68% of your force is filled with a mix of heavy and medium category. Replacement of Mig-29, Mirage-2000 and Jaguar is AMCA. Even in future, IAF will be a Heavy-Medium Air Force with Light being the smallest component.

(BTW, this shows why AMCA is so important - it will form almost 50% of IAF when it comes online).

Because of the time at which LCA is maturing, it will end up replacing only 6-7 squadron worth of Mig-21 - most of earlier ones have gone to Su-30 and of the balance ~10 squadrons of Mig-21/27, LCA, Su-30 and MMRCA will be the replacement.

When IAF decided to have 272 Su-30MKI and 126 MMRCA, the overall possible numbers of Tejas were sealed then and therein itself.

So, unless you or someone else turns around and tell me that MMRCA itself was never required, there is an upper ceiling in terms of LCA numbers in IAF matrix.

So, whether F-16 comes as MMRCA-Lite or Gripen or Death-star, how is the 120 number going to get impacted from force structure perspective?

Answering my own question above - if the R&D of Tejas Mk1A drags on without clarity on timeline, numbers might get shifted to 'NEW' MMRCA Lite. That is the real threat.

And given the above scenario, IMO, the best solution to IAF's requirement of numbers and to ensure enough buffer for Tejas Mk1A to fly and get inducted is this:

1. Of the balance 90 MMRCA slots, get 2-3 more Rafale squadron to make a total of 4/5 squadrons (72-90 aircraft)
2. Transfer the balance number to Tejas Mk1A. (2-3 squadrons).

This makes IAF Heavy-Medium-Light in 36% - 41% - 23% ratio.

[Manish_Sharma]

So, unless you or someone else turns around and tell me that MMRCA itself was never required...

Actually MMRCA wasn't required.

1.) Orginal desire of IAF was M2k-9 in 126 numbers.

2.) MoD beaureacrats decided M2k-9 was different than M2k-h of IAF

3.) Plus the rules of acquisition were changed to necessity of multi-participants.

4.) MMRCA became a joke with Tejas sized Grippen sent invitation and 30 ton F-18 also sent invitation along with Rafale, ef2k and mig 35. How can Grippen and F-18 take part in a competition based on the weightage of aircrafts?

So Tejas can replace need of 126 M2k easily. In fact the contract was to be 126 + 63. So add that 189 to current 120 and it becomes 309 aircraft plus twin seater trainers too that will easily take the number to 400 +

[brar_w]

If my memory serves me right, SAAB offered up the Gripen-E which I would characterize as a light-medium figther..some may even call it a medium class fighter but regardless, it surely is not in the light fighter class that has the LCA, Gripen-C or F/A-50.

[rohitvats]

<SNIP> So Tejas can replace need of 126 M2k easily. In fact the contract was to be 126 + 63. So add that 189 to current 120 and it becomes 309 aircraft plus twin seater trainers too that will easily take the number to 400 +

Mirage-2000 numbers were 126 and same carried forward to MMRCA competition. Either ways, it is 126 lesser Tejas in IAF service.

As to the balance of your post, simplistic equations like above exist in many minds on BRF. That they're too far removed from reality is lost on most.

[rohitvats]

If my memory serves me right, SAAB offered up the Gripen-E which I would characterize as a light-medium figther..some may even call it a medium class fighter but regardless, it surely is not in the light fighter class that has the LCA, Gripen-C or F/A-50.

It matters not who offered what; what matters is what IAF selected. In an ideal world, MMRCA should not have happened and 126 Mirage-2000-5 should've been flying in IAF colors. Which are in the medium category.

[brar_w]

That would have made a lot of sense.

[Manish_Sharma]

As to the balance of your post, simplistic equations like above exist in many minds on BRF. That they're too far removed from reality is lost on most.

Raha has praised Grippen to be bought for IAF. How can Grippen can be bought when there is no more place for light aircraft after the whole 120 slot of light aircraft is been covered by Tejas.

If 'light' grippen can fill the slot of medium weight aircrafts in IAF, then so can Tejas.

Anyone who says that 'medium' weight category can be filled by grippen but not Tejas is removed from the reality himself.

[Manish_Sharma]

It matters not who offered what; what matters is what IAF selected. In an ideal world, MMRCA should not have happened and 126 Mirage-2000-5 should've been flying in IAF colors. Which are in the medium category.

WRONG, you made a case in reply to Rakesh's post that IAF has 3 slots :
Heavy
Medium
Light

You said there is no more space for 'Light' in IAF than 120 Tejas.

Now you are saying that "What matters is what IAF selected". How can "Medium" category which Tejas is not allowed to fill can be filled up by foreign "Light" fighter ?

Simplistically :
a.) You make a post to prove that there is no more place in IAF for "light" Tejas

b.) You make another post saying "its ok if IAF buys another light fighter" in the medium category.

[brar_w]

How can Grippen can be bought when there is no more place for light aircraft after the whole 120 slot of light aircraft is been covered by Tejas.

The Gripen being offered has a 20-25% higher MTOW compared to the Tejas-MK1 and the Gripen-C and is closer to the M2k than these two aircraft. The Gripen-E should be compared to the LCA-MK2 and this is really the lower limits of what most would call a medium class fighter than a light fighter category.

[Manish_Sharma]

^So is Tejas mk 2 with GE F-414 engine.

[brar_w]

^So is Tejas mk 2 with GE F-414 engine.

Right! That is what the IAF has to be convinced on in terms of its availability - When it will fly as a prototype and when it could be inducted in limited numbers and how many can be purchased over the medium term. The Gripen-E on the other has its first flight in a matter of weeks, has two funded customers and is actively participating in international competitions.

[Kashi]

IAF seems to have little trouble being convinced about a hypothetical FGFA..

[brar_w]

IAF seems to have little trouble being convinced about a hypothetical FGFA..

From what has been reported, there was resistance from the IAF, and that they asked for some very specific changes over the baseline PAK-FA before they would accept that aircraft. Additionally, I do not believe that the bulk of the contracts in support of the multi-billion Indian MOD contribution to the R&D effort have been signed yet.

[JayS]

F104 - Window Maker..

Are you in IT?

BTW, the F-104 and F-16 had far less crashes than MiGs. Those titles were given relative to other western systems and they occurred mainly in their early marks unlike Russian jets which killed its pilots consistently in the IAF no matter which model or variant.

Yes I am from IT and that was a Syntax Error..!!

BTW Canadian/German Forces had some 30-50% attrition for F104 fleet. But you can always call them poorly trained fighters just like pukis and shift the blame on them rather than the Fighter design.

[Manish_Sharma]

^Original "flying coffin" was F-104 which our westernphile media ported over to Mig 21.

[rohitvats]

WRONG, you made a case in reply to Rakesh's post that IAF has 3 slots :
Heavy
Medium
Light

You said there is no more space for 'Light' in IAF than 120 Tejas.
Now you are saying that "What matters is what IAF selected". How can "Medium" category which Tejas is not allowed to fill can be filled up by foreign "Light" fighter ?
Simplistically :
a.) You make a post to prove that there is no more place in IAF for "light" Tejas
b.) You make another post saying "its ok if IAF buys another light fighter" in the medium category.

Don't argue for sake for it. And spend sometime in understanding what the other person has posted before you go ballistic with your comments.

My reply was with respect to Gripen participation in MMRCA contest - was Gripen selected by IAF in MMRCA competition? No.So, it does not matter who offered what because IAF chose what it thought was the best.

What the IAF wants and has always wanted is a genuine medium weight fighter. Which was Mirage-2000-5 earlier and which morphed into Rafale later. In case of either fighter having been bought in requisite numbers, the argument about no room for light fighter holds.

Present situation of a new fighter type is not of IAF's making - GOI thinks we need another medium category fighter because Rafale is too expensive. It will give IAF options and make it choose between them.

Coming to Gripen versus Tejas - Well, I don't want Gripen or another foreign type in service. I've already made my POV clear on what can be possible course of action.

Secondly, don't forget the timeline part. Which is the first casualty in any discussion on BRF.

Giving more orders to Tejas will not make them magically appear out of thin air. Tejas Mk1A is still to fly. And then it has to be produced. HAL has already raised it hands in the air on their peak production capacity. GOI in its wisdom feels that additional fighters in required time-frame CANNOT be produced only by HAL.

Plus, it is also angling for replication of automobile model - make in India and export abroad. And service aspect.

A weapon system is a means to an end - not an end itself. If it does not reach an end-user in time and required quantity, it might as well not be there. When you talk about Tejas Mk1A and Tejas Mk2, do keep these things in mind.

[arvin]

Would there be a mk-2 considering the status of f414 as seen few posts before? I think mk1 and mk-1a would be the only two variants with 6 squadrons with mk-1a being co-produced with gripen -E in the same shed.

[rohitvats]

IAF seems to have little trouble being convinced about a hypothetical FGFA..

IAF's objections to many aspects of FGFA are well known. As is the scaling down of order numbers. And secondly, there is ample time for development of FGFA as it does not have to fill some pressing requirement.

[Pratyush]

The major trouble for the IAF is that it is not a builders airforce. It has never had to work with a domestic program and improve the product in batches.

The reasons for the same are historical. But going forwards, it has to develop into a builders Airforce. That has the ability to suggest what capability ti would be required. Along with how to acheave it using domestic resources. It has to own the IP of the product.

Once it starts to do this, the harebrained request such as the ones that have led to this thread, would end. This is not just the job of the Airforce. It is also the job the political leadership of the country.

[JayS]

BTW When is F18 line closing?? Why leave IN high and dry haan ji?? And we will have full set of the Teens. Special collectors edition

I like your thought process. The F-18 line would probably end around the same period as the F-15. But we would need a CATOBAR carrier to make it really work for the IN. Though plenty of advanced nations (Australya, Canada, Finland, etc) have made it their chief land based fighter.

Oh yes, the F-18 would be very nice in Indian tri-color.

It makes all the sense no?? We buy line for F/A18 as well. We will have fighter for Navy. Commonality of F414 engine with AMCA (I mean we won't really need AMCA any more but just to keep the scientist busy we will have is as fun project). In fact if we buy GE engines for all three teens, GE might as well think of giving us HPT technology. (I means its not like we gonna go make Kaveris using that anymore right?? We won't be needing it either). I am sure when we are buying FA18, US will give us EMALS as well for IAC-2. What more we will be US's BFF.

[rohitvats]

The major trouble for the IAF is that it is not a builders airforce. It has never had to work with a domestic program and improve the product in batches. <SNIP>

How can you have a builder's air force in a system where even the aircraft designer has no control on the final design and production? What is HAL's business of proposing Tejas Mk1A?