Artillery: News & Discussion

John
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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby John » 11 Sep 2018 00:11

sarabpal.s wrote:So Bhim can make a comeback?

While i am fan of Bhim, K-9 is lighter while both seems to quiet evenly matched specs wise (Bhim has an advantage of burst mode). At this point i would be happen to simply purchase more K-9s and standardize around that.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Picklu » 11 Sep 2018 01:22

John wrote:
sarabpal.s wrote:So Bhim can make a comeback?

While i am fan of Bhim, K-9 is lighter while both seems to quiet evenly matched specs wise (Bhim has an advantage of burst mode). At this point i would be happen to simply purchase more K-9s and standardize around that.


And indigenise the same progressively over a period with ATAGs barrels and Arjun/Abhay systems.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 13 Sep 2018 05:30

Picklu wrote:
John wrote:While i am fan of Bhim, K-9 is lighter while both seems to quiet evenly matched specs wise (Bhim has an advantage of burst mode). At this point i would be happen to simply purchase more K-9s and standardize around that.


And indigenise the same progressively over a period with ATAGs barrels and Arjun/Abhay systems.



How?

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 13 Sep 2018 11:57

ATAGS barrel,control systems and Arjun engine.

You don't need a blueprint now do you?

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 13 Sep 2018 12:04

The mindset of no change and chalta ain kills innovation.
And disparaging with word jugaad.
Every where new weapon systems are created with proven subsystems.
Motor from some system, seeker from another and guidance specific to it.

Its called innovation and wah wah! Khuub.
In India it would be jugaad and looked down.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 13 Sep 2018 12:26

L&T is already using the current K9 with local components. It will progressively increase it. Moreover, unless we are going to induct 500+ it does not make sense to have a Indian designed SPH. IA does not seem to be interesting in large number of SPH. They are going for MGS and towed.


I was curious to notice the trend between IA and PLA. PLA went all SP will truck mounted and true blood SPH. While we went to towed. Then it occurred to me, IA is not inducting just towed, it is inducting self propelled towed. ATAGS has good engine and they are planning more powerful engine.

ATAGS can travel up to 30km speed, which is pretty good. It can travel on it's own. In the mountains, the instant turn of ATAGS is a huge plus over trucks. Even in plains ATAGS can travel quite easily.

So IA can taken the best of both worlds. Granted there is the question of armor protection, however it applies to truck mounted as well.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 Sep 2018 12:55

Large heavy tracked sp guns of the bhim or m109 type could be tricky to handle on mountain roads and bridges

They will also consume more fuel

Plus side is crew is protected inside

A hybrid is the bofors archer which has a 10 round magazine and charges to release a good salvo and then move to reload

But for day long firings from steep reverse slopes even trucks may not be able to climb that

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 15 Sep 2018 08:16

https://www-indiatoday-in.cdn.ampprojec ... 2018-09-14

The ofb mounted 155 mm is being tested.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Gyan » 15 Sep 2018 09:42

pankajs wrote:
Gyan wrote:With few nukes & 50 year old equipment, North Korea is able to stare down USA, Japan & SK. While we go around whinning all over the world throwing our dollars at each & every arms dealer.
So true. They can hold US/SoKo/Japan to ransom but can they do anything more expect rant, rave and threaten to nuke?

If we want to emulate North Korea we have sufficient nukes to "stifle our own people" just like North Korea but if we want to emulate China we don't have enough weapons. So we emulate China and develop, buy, borrow, beg or steal more weapons not just nukes.

One learns new thing everyday but I did not think I would hear/read North Korea being a reference point for India/Indian developments.

Btw, if this line of thinking makes me/India a sissy like China so be it. I don't want India to be spunky like North Korea. I want India to be a toned down version of the China from before 2008.


I completely agree with you.
the focus of my argument is not to become like North Korea but to point out the way North Korea has used its Limited leverage.
If we can become like China then it is for the best.
My point was that we should not be desperate for impirted hi tech equipment.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Sep 2018 10:12

Pratyush wrote:https://www-indiatoday-in.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.indiatoday.in/amp/india/story/truck-mounted-gun-system-howitzer-bofors-indian-army-1340143-2018-09-14?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indiatoday.in%2Findia%2Fstory%2Ftruck-mounted-gun-system-howitzer-bofors-indian-army-1340143-2018-09-14

The ofb mounted 155 mm is being tested.


The articcle omits DAC clearence of 150 ATAGS which will also be acquired in the next 5 years.

So next 4 years(by 31 March 2022) 155mm acquistion will be mainly

1. 114 Dhanush Towed Artillery
2. 100 K-9 Vajra
3. 145 M-777
4 300 130 mm upgraded to 155 mm
5. 150 Atags.

Hope post elections there are follow on orders as we need to ramp up numbers fast.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 15 Sep 2018 16:46

Can any one identify which arty regts these will go to?

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 15 Sep 2018 16:52

Pratyush wrote:https://www-indiatoday-in.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.indiatoday.in/amp/india/story/truck-mounted-gun-system-howitzer-bofors-indian-army-1340143-2018-09-14?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indiatoday.in%2Findia%2Fstory%2Ftruck-mounted-gun-system-howitzer-bofors-indian-army-1340143-2018-09-14

The ofb mounted 155 mm is being tested.


I am very biased towards Tata+Denel solution.It was truly TFTA. I wish Tata come up with a ATAGS based solution, on the experience they had with the Denel MGS.

And compete with OFB proposal.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 15 Sep 2018 18:23

nam wrote:
Pratyush wrote:https://www-indiatoday-in.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.indiatoday.in/amp/india/story/truck-mounted-gun-system-howitzer-bofors-indian-army-1340143-2018-09-14?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indiatoday.in%2Findia%2Fstory%2Ftruck-mounted-gun-system-howitzer-bofors-indian-army-1340143-2018-09-14

The ofb mounted 155 mm is being tested.


I am very biased towards Tata+Denel solution.It was truly TFTA. I wish Tata come up with a ATAGS based solution, on the experience they had with the Denel MGS.

And compete with OFB proposal.

Is that for truck mounted or SP? What is TFTA?

nam
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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 15 Sep 2018 18:35

ks_sachin wrote:Is that for truck mounted or SP? What is TFTA?


https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/images/story/201212/tata-howitzer_660_120312062044.jpg

TFTA means very Paki. :D

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby sarang » 15 Sep 2018 19:41

ks_sachin wrote:
nam wrote:
I am very biased towards Tata+Denel solution.It was truly TFTA. I wish Tata come up with a ATAGS based solution, on the experience they had with the Denel MGS.

And compete with OFB proposal.

Is that for truck mounted or SP? What is TFTA?


Tall, Fair, Tight Assed :twisted:

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 15 Sep 2018 21:31


Singha
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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 17 Sep 2018 20:00

DHANUSH

Image

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Katare » 17 Sep 2018 23:04

Looking at the blue cloud print, I guess they are trying to sell it to 6 year old little girls or what?

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rishi_Tri » 17 Sep 2018 23:35

Katare wrote:Looking at the blue cloud print, I guess they are trying to sell it to 6 year old little girls or what?


Haha. In animal kingdom anything that is extremely bright is most likely the most poisonous and deadly. :rotfl:

Jokes apart .. to blend in with white and blueish nature of icy heights.. or even waters.. !!

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 18 Sep 2018 02:15

Katare wrote:Looking at the blue cloud print, I guess they are trying to sell it to 6 year old little girls or what?

Excuse me ?
then it would be the pink one which is just outisde the frame
:wink:

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 18 Sep 2018 04:14

That is not white but desert camo on which someone has decided to put blue splotches!!!
What a bloody waste of time and effort!!!

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 18 Sep 2018 04:54

GD, Please put captions with pictures posted.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 18 Sep 2018 06:34


My question was what makes a weapon TFTA???

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 18 Sep 2018 08:00

ks_sachin wrote:

My question was what makes a weapon TFTA???


Photoshop

Singha
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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 18 Sep 2018 09:11

compared to basic desert camo here in siachen base camp, the grey or blue overlays in pic I linked will blend in better
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3EPk_0d2A8s/hqdefault.jpg

I dont see anything wrong in it.

desi effort people will instinctively boo boo.
german leopard people will wah wah
Image

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 20 Sep 2018 03:13

Because I have OCD :), I added all the numbers below...a tad below 3,000. But the point to note is, WOW :eek:

If all goes to plan, in 7+ years, Indian Artillery will undergo a serious transformation!

https://twitter.com/iPraksy/status/1041009599300550656 ----> Indian Army's Artillery Guns Programme for 3,000+ Guns by 2025:

▪ Ultra-Light Guns: 145 155mm × 39 M-777
▪ Tracked Guns: 100 155mm × 52 K9 Vajra-T
▪ Towed Guns: 114 + 300 155mm x 45 Dhanush and 190 + 1,000 155mm × 52 ATAGS
▪ Mounted Guns: 814 155mm × 52 Dhanush-2
▪ Upgraded Guns: 300 155mm × 45 M-46

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 20 Sep 2018 03:17

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 7158519808 ---> The indigenously developed Mounted Gun System (MGS) from Gun Carriage Factory (GCF) OFB will commence testing in November. The system utilizes the Dhanush 155mm x 52 gun. The Indian Army has a stated requirement for 814 such systems.

Image

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 20 Sep 2018 03:21

ks_sachin wrote:

My question was what makes a weapon TFTA???


Good question. The requirements people would deliberately choose technology so far out that rivals will eternally be seeking to play catch-up. A TFTA weapon system will trap you into eternal game of catch up.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 20 Sep 2018 06:51

ramana wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:My question was what makes a weapon TFTA???


Good question. The requirements people would deliberately choose technology so far out that rivals will eternally be seeking to play catch-up. A TFTA weapon system will trap you into eternal game of catch up.

So why does BR or some people have a fetish about TFTA? I keep reading comments about it from people who probably know bugger all about weapos and dev.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 20 Sep 2018 12:41

We don't have a fetish for TFTA. We're used to sdre things and get surprised at stuff that is not sdre.

So by default it gets classified as TFTA when its fit and finish is more uniform or the paint job is high quality. Instead of being dunked in a drum of paint.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 28 Sep 2018 12:11

It's Gunners Day today

So wishing a Happy Gunners Day to our artillery folk - "Sarvatra Izzat ‘O’ Iqbal"

Keep Booming, you Gods of War!

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 28 Sep 2018 13:55

Hear. Hear.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby A Sharma » 28 Sep 2018 16:05


ramana
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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 29 Sep 2018 04:11




Again 13 modifications proposed and implemented on a gun already accepted and made in world!

What prompts IA to tinker with already made products?

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Kashi » 29 Sep 2018 05:32

Wasn't one of the modifications about enabling the Vajra to operate in desert environments, quite different from the hills and fields of Paju-Kaesong corridor.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Philip » 29 Sep 2018 11:08

Sorry, shouldn't it be Vajra hits targets in Porkistan? We're told that yesterday the Porkis suffered heavy casualties from our arty fire.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 29 Sep 2018 11:57

the MGS looks very soothing and low slung. a mix of the OFB MGS and bharat forge Denel should be ordered

one thing we are clueless about is mixing large orders to keep all big operators in business (boeing/LM/NG/raytheon) .... US goes to extent of letting the L2 bidder build the L1 bidders design....thats why i believe the DDG51 gets built in 2 shipyards.

by using political clout, OFB should not be allowed to corner all orders.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 29 Sep 2018 14:54

Singha wrote:the MGS looks very soothing and low slung. a mix of the OFB MGS and bharat forge Denel should be ordered

one thing we are clueless about is mixing large orders to keep all big operators in business (boeing/LM/NG/raytheon) .... US goes to extent of letting the L2 bidder build the L1 bidders design....thats why i believe the DDG51 gets built in 2 shipyards.

by using political clout, OFB should not be allowed to corner all orders.

Why mix. If MGS works the order just that Multiple types play havoc with logistics...let Bharat forge also manufacture the same.

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 30 Sep 2018 04:19

Rakesh wrote:
Image



I love this gun & the set up especially.

SP, light as it could be, agile.
Dhanush barrel.
Desi and no more money to the middle men or our own.


Just full marks on all aspects !!

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Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 30 Sep 2018 05:57

If only the Tatra truck is replaced by TATA or ASHOK Leyland 8X8. I hope OFB does not give lazy BEML the opportunity to show topline growth every year just by doing screwdrivergiri. Pretty stupid to buy foreign stuff when Indian products would atleast be equal if not better.


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