Artillery: News & Discussion

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Bart S
BRFite
Posts: 1353
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:03

Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Bart S » 29 Aug 2018 17:45

Manish_P wrote:
Picklu wrote:A GRAD or Pinaka launched SAAW or SANT variant would be excellent to attack reverse slope.


Sir, how about a CBU 105 type bomb mated on a Pinaka/Smerch type rocket.

Or on an UCAV

Currently the CBU 105 is carried by the Jags


There is a Swedish hack of an SDB bomb called GLSDB that does that sort of thing.

Manish_P
BRFite
Posts: 1594
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Manish_P » 29 Aug 2018 18:18

Thanks.

Now that you mention it, I vaguely recollect forum member Brar_w posting some details on a similar weapon being considered by the US (I do not remember the use cases). Will check for more details.

EDIT - found it

Ground-Launched Small Diameter Bomb (GLSDB)

The GLSDB combines capabilities of the SDB I air-launched weapon and the M26 ground-based rocket motor. Designed for launch from the ground artillery system, the GLSDB provides land forces with the ability to engage a range of targets in complex operating environments.


Image

My line of thinking was to substitute the M26 with Pinaka/Smerch type rocket and the SDB with the CBU-105 type munition. Fire it over the hill. The carrier bomb separates from the rocket first. Then at an optimum height the clusters of 'smart' bomb-lets separate and parachute down to fire their charges to complete the job.

I do appreciate the challenges (technical and financial).. even seemingly minor ones like high winds in the mountains likely to blow the bomb-lets wide off course.. and am aware that the enemy location will have to be first identified by the spotters/WLRs/UAV/Aircraft.

darshhan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2313
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 11:52

Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby darshhan » 29 Aug 2018 20:09

nam wrote:Pinaka, Grad, SANT, ballistic missile, CBU etc can only be used in a full fledged war. In that scenario there is no reverse slope. IAF can directly hit them using LGB.

We are discussing the current fight on LoC, where none of these are available. And no, GoI will not ask IAF to bomb, unless Pak invades us.

Even if you want to use guided Pinaka, you need to know where to hit. And that is the crux of the problem and the reason artillery is deployed on reverse slope.


Nam, This is your assumption. Govt will do this and govt wouldnt do this etc. So no point in pressing things further. Sure you are entitled to your opinion.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50757
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby ramana » 29 Aug 2018 21:04

So Manish_P,
My line of thinking was to substitute the M26 with Pinaka/Smerch type rocket and the SDB with the CBU-105 type munition. Fire it over the hill. The carrier bomb separates from the rocket first. Then at an optimum height the clusters of 'smart' bomb-lets separate and parachute down to fire their charges to complete the job.

I do appreciate the challenges (technical and financial).. even seemingly minor ones like high winds in the mountains likely to blow the bomb-lets wide off course.. and am aware that the enemy location will have to be first identified by the spotters/WLRs/UAV/Aircraft.


So will teach you conceptual design.

Please compare the M26 rocket propellant, thrust, time of burn and diameter and length to the Pinaka rocket motor parameters.
And then the compare SDB to SAAW in length, diameter, weight and guidance.
Once you have them use the rocket equation to get velocity and altitude at burn out for both.

Then do a CAD* line drawing for and can go fancy with solid model rendering.

Reason to use the SAAW is its all Indian made. CBU-105 is cluster based and will lead to use restrictions.
And DRDO just could not reverse engineer the cluster bomb (JP-233) from UK used with Jaguar despite repeated help from IAF.



Can get many free PC CAD programs from Internet.
These are more powerful than the mainframe CAD programs used to develop Trident

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50757
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby ramana » 29 Aug 2018 21:16

I have a general observation.
British Military thinking always dominates thinking about how to fight the last war.

I see that both IA and IAF have spent inordinate amount of effort in trying to re-fight the Kargil War and have distorted their thinking in choice of weapons and tactics.
Krasnopol M was rejected for overshoot in thin mountain air to get isolated sangers.
Dhanush and M777 were over tested until shells burst in barrel due to beyond normal number of firings and perfectly good guns were delayed induction.
IAF has spent lots of effort on those pellet anti-personnel bombs OFB 110 and 500 Kg.

Folks it is Cold Start that has to be enabled and not re-fighting Kargil sangers.

Get more Dhanush/Sarang and ATAGS, Arjuns and better rifles, BPJ and make formations more agile. Raise enough reserve follow-on troops to exploit initial advantages.

Get more Su-30s and Tejas as both are in your control and not lust for F35 and other unobtanium.

As US $ strengthen, the rupee will sink which makes imports that much more unobtainable.
At same time will make #MakeInIndia even more feasible and desirable as PPP increases.

And quit complaining about 2% budget and learn to utilize it well.
Only US can afford the 4% as they print the $.

And cut down the infighting between services(CDS) and between MoD and services (Integration).
And above all infighting with civil intelligence services.

nam
BRFite
Posts: 1576
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby nam » 29 Aug 2018 22:01

darshhan wrote:
Nam, This is your assumption. Govt will do this and govt wouldnt do this etc. So no point in pressing things further. Sure you are entitled to your opinion.


Indeed and I would so like my assumption be proved wrong.

It has been 17 years since IAF fired a LGB in anger, 20 years since IA fired MBRL in anger. Within that time, thousands of soldiers and Indian civilians have been killed by Pak Army & it's terror machine.

Just pointing out that history does not provide comfort, when people discuss about GoI authorizing SDB & MBRL attacks.
Last edited by nam on 30 Aug 2018 19:49, edited 2 times in total.

Manish_P
BRFite
Posts: 1594
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Manish_P » 30 Aug 2018 09:30

ramana wrote:Please compare the M26 rocket propellant, thrust, time of burn and diameter and length to the Pinaka rocket motor parameters. And then the compare SDB to SAAW in length, diameter, weight and guidance. Once you have them use the rocket equation to get velocity and altitude at burn out for both. Then do a CAD* line drawing for and can go fancy with solid model rendering.


Yes. I know. Hence i said 'type of' (meaning develop).. not use the actual current weapons (with their restrictions).

ramana wrote:Reason to use the SAAW is its all Indian made. CBU-105 is cluster based and will lead to use restrictions.

Use restrictions as in technical, operational or political?
The SAAW is a good weapon for runway denial. Would not a cluster type bomb with it's spread of sub-munitions be better for attack on spread out artillery?

ramana wrote:Can get many free PC CAD programs from Internet.
These are more powerful than the mainframe CAD programs used to develop Trident

I have a couple on my PC (courtesy my engineer brother). But engineering is not my field. I will defer to the experts, here on this forum and in our Military Labs.

Rishi_Tri
BRFite
Posts: 192
Joined: 13 Feb 2017 14:49

Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby Rishi_Tri » 30 Aug 2018 21:20

ramana wrote:I have a general observation.
British Military thinking always dominates thinking about how to fight the last war.

I see that both IA and IAF have spent inordinate amount of effort in trying to re-fight the Kargil War and have distorted their thinking in choice of weapons and tactics.
Krasnopol M was rejected for overshoot in thin mountain air to get isolated sangers.
Dhanush and M777 were over tested until shells burst in barrel due to beyond normal number of firings and perfectly good guns were delayed induction.
IAF has spent lots of effort on those pellet anti-personnel bombs OFB 110 and 500 Kg.

Folks it is Cold Start that has to be enabled and not re-fighting Kargil sangers.

Get more Dhanush/Sarang and ATAGS, Arjuns and better rifles, BPJ and make formations more agile. Raise enough reserve follow-on troops to exploit initial advantages.

Get more Su-30s and Tejas as both are in your control and not lust for F35 and other unobtanium.

As US $ strengthen, the rupee will sink which makes imports that much more unobtainable.
At same time will make #MakeInIndia even more feasible and desirable as PPP increases.

And quit complaining about 2% budget and learn to utilize it well.
Only US can afford the 4% as they print the $.

And cut down the infighting between services(CDS) and between MoD and services (Integration).
And above all infighting with civil intelligence services.


++

ks_sachin
BRFite
Posts: 685
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Postby ks_sachin » 31 Aug 2018 05:19

darshhan wrote:
nam wrote:Pinaka, Grad, SANT, ballistic missile, CBU etc can only be used in a full fledged war. In that scenario there is no reverse slope. IAF can directly hit them using LGB.

We are discussing the current fight on LoC, where none of these are available. And no, GoI will not ask IAF to bomb, unless Pak invades us.

Even if you want to use guided Pinaka, you need to know where to hit. And that is the crux of the problem and the reason artillery is deployed on reverse slope.


Nam, This is your assumption. Govt will do this and govt wouldnt do this etc. So no point in pressing things further. Sure you are entitled to your opinion.

Nam is right. Its not what govt will but rather what choices it has.

Live with thousand cuts or escalate and finish it off. We choose to live with 1000 cuts and so unless PA arty is on LoC we will not aggressively neutralise.

Vips
BRFite
Posts: 1229
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 07 Sep 2018 05:31

South African firm Denel taken off the defence blacklist after settlement agreement.

Arms manufacturer Denel has been taken off an Indian defence ministry blacklist after the South African company signed a settlement agreement that waived off almost $ 100 million that it would have been entitled to following arbitration proceedings.

The final settlement agreement was signed on July 19, days ahead of a BRICS summit in Johannesburg that will be attended by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, and details how the company was put on the blacklist in 2005, on the basis of two newspaper reports in South Africa. Charges of corruption in the news reports could not be validated during a subsequent CBI inquiry, leading it to file a closure case in 2014.

Formal orders to take Denel off the blacklist were issued on Wednesday, bringing an end to a 13 year exile for the company from the world’s largest market for military imports. While it was cleared of all charges in 2014, it was unable to restart work in the lucrative arms market as legal proceedings were on for several past deals where India had frozen or encashed its bank guarantees.

After the suspension of operations, all ongoing contracts with Indian defence ministry entities had been cancelled, leading to litigation and arbitration that went on for years. ET has learnt that the company has agreed to forfeit almost $ 100 million for the right to come back to the Indian market and a removal from the official blacklist.

The South African entity, which also has joint ventures with debarred firm Rheinmetall, has been keen for a return to the Indian market after the Modi government opened doors for partnerships with private sector companies for major manufacturing projects. Several rounds of meetings have been held with the private sector over the past two years, including companies that have recently entered the defence market. The company is particularly suited for upcoming orders for ammunition supplies to the armed forces in which Indian companies have to create new facilities.

The company’s troubles in India started in 2005, after the defence ministry put all contracts with it on hold. Investigations probed two contracts that the firm had signed in India, a Rs 78 crore deal for procurement of 400 anti material rifles and a Rs 66 crore transfer of technology contract with the Ordnance Factory Board but failed to find any proof of corruption.

sarabpal.s
BRFite
Posts: 339
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 22:04

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby sarabpal.s » 07 Sep 2018 17:56

So Bhim can make a comeback?

nam
BRFite
Posts: 1576
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 07 Sep 2018 17:59

We already have K9s. It does not make sense to built another SPH.

Even if we do, then it will have ATAGS barrel. So Denel is not coming back.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19640
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Philip » 07 Sep 2018 19:02

Ramana your gen. obs. are spot on.Build at home what we've mastered in our grasp.Saves valuable forex esp. with the rupee's plunge.I can't understand the IAF's attitude towards the Rafale, as if without it the battle is lost , never ever mentioning its comparative cost with other aircraft in service and contention and as if we have no alternatives.

The huge efforts by pvt. industry and the OFB with the desi Bofors in developing arty. must be lauded and swiftly rewarded as there is a major shortage.If Paki terrof continues unabated, a war of attrition across the LOC through concerted and selected targets on the Paki side must take place.It is only by causing v.heavy casualties of Paki regular forces, not their irregulars and jihadis who are available a rupee a dozen, that will make Pak relent.The Paki army must bleed heavily as retribution for its asymmetric warfare using CBT .UCAVs too taking out specific mil. targets and jihadi centres should be ghe order of the day.

One major concern is the massive increase in Paki nukes which are is the fastest growing nuclear arsenal in the world.Cold Start ops may be faced with Paki mini-nukes even at early stages of a conflict.

Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1100
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 19:14

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Gyan » 09 Sep 2018 10:51

With few nukes & 50 year old equipment, North Korea is able to stare down USA, Japan & SK. While we go around whinning all over the world throwing our dollars at each & every arms dealer.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10443
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby pankajs » 09 Sep 2018 11:28

Gyan wrote:With few nukes & 50 year old equipment, North Korea is able to stare down USA, Japan & SK. While we go around whinning all over the world throwing our dollars at each & every arms dealer.
So true. They can hold US/SoKo/Japan to ransom but can they do anything more expect rant, rave and threaten to nuke?

If we want to emulate North Korea we have sufficient nukes to "stifle our own people" just like North Korea but if we want to emulate China we don't have enough weapons. So we emulate China and develop, buy, borrow, beg or steal more weapons not just nukes.

One learns new thing everyday but I did not think I would hear/read North Korea being a reference point for India/Indian developments.

Btw, if this line of thinking makes me/India a sissy like China so be it. I don't want India to be spunky like North Korea. I want India to be a toned down version of the China from before 2008.

VinodTK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2172
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 10 Sep 2018 19:08

Rolling out big guns: Two big shows for ‘Make in India’
:
:
One function is planned in Gujarat, where the K 9 ‘Vajra’ self-propelled artillery guns are being made while talks are on for a possible joint firing exercise with the M 777 ultra-light howitz ers at a range in Maharashtra, sources familiar with developments told ET.

The ‘Vajra’, a 155 mm howitzer ordered by the Indian Army in April 2017 after a global competition that was won by Larsen and Toubro, is likely to be handed over at a formal ceremony at the new Hazira facility over the next ..

:
:

John
BRFite
Posts: 1854
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby John » 11 Sep 2018 00:11

sarabpal.s wrote:So Bhim can make a comeback?

While i am fan of Bhim, K-9 is lighter while both seems to quiet evenly matched specs wise (Bhim has an advantage of burst mode). At this point i would be happen to simply purchase more K-9s and standardize around that.

Picklu
BRFite
Posts: 1721
Joined: 25 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Picklu » 11 Sep 2018 01:22

John wrote:
sarabpal.s wrote:So Bhim can make a comeback?

While i am fan of Bhim, K-9 is lighter while both seems to quiet evenly matched specs wise (Bhim has an advantage of burst mode). At this point i would be happen to simply purchase more K-9s and standardize around that.


And indigenise the same progressively over a period with ATAGs barrels and Arjun/Abhay systems.

ks_sachin
BRFite
Posts: 685
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 13 Sep 2018 05:30

Picklu wrote:
John wrote:While i am fan of Bhim, K-9 is lighter while both seems to quiet evenly matched specs wise (Bhim has an advantage of burst mode). At this point i would be happen to simply purchase more K-9s and standardize around that.


And indigenise the same progressively over a period with ATAGs barrels and Arjun/Abhay systems.



How?

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50757
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 13 Sep 2018 11:57

ATAGS barrel,control systems and Arjun engine.

You don't need a blueprint now do you?

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50757
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 13 Sep 2018 12:04

The mindset of no change and chalta ain kills innovation.
And disparaging with word jugaad.
Every where new weapon systems are created with proven subsystems.
Motor from some system, seeker from another and guidance specific to it.

Its called innovation and wah wah! Khuub.
In India it would be jugaad and looked down.

nam
BRFite
Posts: 1576
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 13 Sep 2018 12:26

L&T is already using the current K9 with local components. It will progressively increase it. Moreover, unless we are going to induct 500+ it does not make sense to have a Indian designed SPH. IA does not seem to be interesting in large number of SPH. They are going for MGS and towed.


I was curious to notice the trend between IA and PLA. PLA went all SP will truck mounted and true blood SPH. While we went to towed. Then it occurred to me, IA is not inducting just towed, it is inducting self propelled towed. ATAGS has good engine and they are planning more powerful engine.

ATAGS can travel up to 30km speed, which is pretty good. It can travel on it's own. In the mountains, the instant turn of ATAGS is a huge plus over trucks. Even in plains ATAGS can travel quite easily.

So IA can taken the best of both worlds. Granted there is the question of armor protection, however it applies to truck mounted as well.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63614
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 Sep 2018 12:55

Large heavy tracked sp guns of the bhim or m109 type could be tricky to handle on mountain roads and bridges

They will also consume more fuel

Plus side is crew is protected inside

A hybrid is the bofors archer which has a 10 round magazine and charges to release a good salvo and then move to reload

But for day long firings from steep reverse slopes even trucks may not be able to climb that

Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7851
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 15 Sep 2018 08:16

https://www-indiatoday-in.cdn.ampprojec ... 2018-09-14

The ofb mounted 155 mm is being tested.

Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1100
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 19:14

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Gyan » 15 Sep 2018 09:42

pankajs wrote:
Gyan wrote:With few nukes & 50 year old equipment, North Korea is able to stare down USA, Japan & SK. While we go around whinning all over the world throwing our dollars at each & every arms dealer.
So true. They can hold US/SoKo/Japan to ransom but can they do anything more expect rant, rave and threaten to nuke?

If we want to emulate North Korea we have sufficient nukes to "stifle our own people" just like North Korea but if we want to emulate China we don't have enough weapons. So we emulate China and develop, buy, borrow, beg or steal more weapons not just nukes.

One learns new thing everyday but I did not think I would hear/read North Korea being a reference point for India/Indian developments.

Btw, if this line of thinking makes me/India a sissy like China so be it. I don't want India to be spunky like North Korea. I want India to be a toned down version of the China from before 2008.


I completely agree with you.
the focus of my argument is not to become like North Korea but to point out the way North Korea has used its Limited leverage.
If we can become like China then it is for the best.
My point was that we should not be desperate for impirted hi tech equipment.

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9876
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Sep 2018 10:12

Pratyush wrote:https://www-indiatoday-in.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.indiatoday.in/amp/india/story/truck-mounted-gun-system-howitzer-bofors-indian-army-1340143-2018-09-14?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indiatoday.in%2Findia%2Fstory%2Ftruck-mounted-gun-system-howitzer-bofors-indian-army-1340143-2018-09-14

The ofb mounted 155 mm is being tested.


The articcle omits DAC clearence of 150 ATAGS which will also be acquired in the next 5 years.

So next 4 years(by 31 March 2022) 155mm acquistion will be mainly

1. 114 Dhanush Towed Artillery
2. 100 K-9 Vajra
3. 145 M-777
4 300 130 mm upgraded to 155 mm
5. 150 Atags.

Hope post elections there are follow on orders as we need to ramp up numbers fast.

ks_sachin
BRFite
Posts: 685
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 15 Sep 2018 16:46

Can any one identify which arty regts these will go to?

nam
BRFite
Posts: 1576
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 15 Sep 2018 16:52

Pratyush wrote:https://www-indiatoday-in.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.indiatoday.in/amp/india/story/truck-mounted-gun-system-howitzer-bofors-indian-army-1340143-2018-09-14?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indiatoday.in%2Findia%2Fstory%2Ftruck-mounted-gun-system-howitzer-bofors-indian-army-1340143-2018-09-14

The ofb mounted 155 mm is being tested.


I am very biased towards Tata+Denel solution.It was truly TFTA. I wish Tata come up with a ATAGS based solution, on the experience they had with the Denel MGS.

And compete with OFB proposal.

ks_sachin
BRFite
Posts: 685
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 15 Sep 2018 18:23

nam wrote:
Pratyush wrote:https://www-indiatoday-in.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.indiatoday.in/amp/india/story/truck-mounted-gun-system-howitzer-bofors-indian-army-1340143-2018-09-14?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indiatoday.in%2Findia%2Fstory%2Ftruck-mounted-gun-system-howitzer-bofors-indian-army-1340143-2018-09-14

The ofb mounted 155 mm is being tested.


I am very biased towards Tata+Denel solution.It was truly TFTA. I wish Tata come up with a ATAGS based solution, on the experience they had with the Denel MGS.

And compete with OFB proposal.

Is that for truck mounted or SP? What is TFTA?

nam
BRFite
Posts: 1576
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 15 Sep 2018 18:35

ks_sachin wrote:Is that for truck mounted or SP? What is TFTA?


https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/images/story/201212/tata-howitzer_660_120312062044.jpg

TFTA means very Paki. :D

sarang
BRFite
Posts: 129
Joined: 16 Jun 2007 11:23
Location: India

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby sarang » 15 Sep 2018 19:41

ks_sachin wrote:
nam wrote:
I am very biased towards Tata+Denel solution.It was truly TFTA. I wish Tata come up with a ATAGS based solution, on the experience they had with the Denel MGS.

And compete with OFB proposal.

Is that for truck mounted or SP? What is TFTA?


Tall, Fair, Tight Assed :twisted:

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16451
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: woh log gawad hai, unpad hai !
Contact:

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 15 Sep 2018 21:31


Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63614
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 17 Sep 2018 20:00

DHANUSH

Image

Katare
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2309
Joined: 02 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Katare » 17 Sep 2018 23:04

Looking at the blue cloud print, I guess they are trying to sell it to 6 year old little girls or what?

Rishi_Tri
BRFite
Posts: 192
Joined: 13 Feb 2017 14:49

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Rishi_Tri » 17 Sep 2018 23:35

Katare wrote:Looking at the blue cloud print, I guess they are trying to sell it to 6 year old little girls or what?


Haha. In animal kingdom anything that is extremely bright is most likely the most poisonous and deadly. :rotfl:

Jokes apart .. to blend in with white and blueish nature of icy heights.. or even waters.. !!

Khalsa
BRFite
Posts: 1350
Joined: 12 Nov 2000 12:31
Location: NZL

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 18 Sep 2018 02:15

Katare wrote:Looking at the blue cloud print, I guess they are trying to sell it to 6 year old little girls or what?

Excuse me ?
then it would be the pink one which is just outisde the frame
:wink:

ks_sachin
BRFite
Posts: 685
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 18 Sep 2018 04:14

That is not white but desert camo on which someone has decided to put blue splotches!!!
What a bloody waste of time and effort!!!

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50757
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 18 Sep 2018 04:54

GD, Please put captions with pictures posted.

ks_sachin
BRFite
Posts: 685
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 18 Sep 2018 06:34


My question was what makes a weapon TFTA???

Manish_P
BRFite
Posts: 1594
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Artillery: News & Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 18 Sep 2018 08:00

ks_sachin wrote:

My question was what makes a weapon TFTA???


Photoshop


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests