Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36352
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby SaiK » 29 Mar 2019 19:53

Vips wrote:Tejas Mark 2 will have a new name. ..

तेजस्त्रा :)

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16783
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Rahul M » 29 Mar 2019 19:54

pray UPA-3 does not come to power or it might be named Tejpratap ! :eek:

Arun.prabhu
BRFite
Posts: 228
Joined: 28 Aug 2016 19:26

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Arun.prabhu » 29 Mar 2019 20:32

Another ten years. I'm getting that puckering feeling now. Deja vu Arjun! Let's hope I'm wrong.

nash wrote:
Medium Weight Fighter (MWF) to get a new name and 4 Pre-production aircraft

ADA has confirmed that unlike LCA-Tejas program there will not be any Technology Demonstrators (Phase-1) nor any prototype aircraft (Phase-II) of MWF and instead there will be four Pre-production aircraft. First Two of the four Pre-production aircraft will be of Initial Operation Clearance (IOC) configuration and the last two will be of final Operation Clearance (IOC) configuration. Direct development of Pre-production aircraft will help reduce development timeline and also accelerate flight testing and trial phase so that from the first flight of the first pre-production MWF aircraft till it cleared for production, whole program can be rounded up in five years time.

Work on the assembly of first Medium Weight Fighter (MWF) will start from 2021 on wards and it should be ready for first flight by end of 2022 or in 2023. If ADA manages to have its first flight by 2023 and also manages to wind up its developmental flight trials by 2028 it should be ready to enter production by 2029-30. ADA is yet to select a production partner, while HAL has been tasked to procure assemble jigs and other ground support equipment to start work on the development of first Medium Weight Fighter (MWF) aircraft it is still not clear if HAL will be in charge of manufacturing of first four pre-production aircraft.

http://idrw.org/medium-weight-fighter-m ... -aircraft/ .


What would be new name and will ADA/DRDO/HAL able to adhere to this time line?

Theeran
BRFite
Posts: 185
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Theeran » 29 Mar 2019 21:08

My suggestion for name

Vetri Vel - Victory lance
Veera Vel - brave lance
Both names are for Murugan's spear, our god of war.

Or Netrikan - Sivan's third eye

esommuk
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 64
Joined: 05 Mar 2019 21:09

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby esommuk » 29 Mar 2019 22:04

Tejas Mk 2 should be named 'Manohar'

in memory of the great son of Mother India

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7537
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 29 Mar 2019 22:13

^^^ love it. I think the team will be receptive to the idea. They love Manohar Parrikar ji. What's not there to love the man. I love him!

Vivek K
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2108
Joined: 15 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Vivek K » 29 Mar 2019 22:18

Rahul M wrote:pray UPA-3 does not come to power or it might be named Tejpratap ! :eek:

Or Pappu!!

JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2632
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JTull » 30 Mar 2019 01:32

There won't be any naming until it flies.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23361
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Austin » 30 Mar 2019 11:59

The Tejas Mark 2 fighter has been bulked up into medium fighter category

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2019/03/ ... -been.html

Shekhar Singh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 18
Joined: 16 Sep 2018 14:55

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Shekhar Singh » 30 Mar 2019 12:17

Can someone please elaborate about weapon configuration of each hard point. Can it carry a weapon load to be a perfect omnirole fighter.?

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7313
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Prasad » 30 Mar 2019 20:18

Austin wrote:The Tejas Mark 2 fighter has been bulked up into medium fighter category

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2019/03/ ... -been.html

Exactly whats new about this other than shrill scare-mongering?

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23361
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Austin » 30 Mar 2019 21:10

JMT here , What if they keep Tejas Mk2 payload to 5 T , Keep the fuel as is for Mk2.

Will that improve its T/W ratio and flying characteristics ?

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36352
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby SaiK » 30 Mar 2019 22:30

Why Austin ji? why are you reducing the MWF specs?

negi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13099
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Ban se dar nahin lagta , chootiyon se lagta hai .

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby negi » 30 Mar 2019 22:31

Karan M wrote:Indranil, as you have called Negi, BR's ertswhile scourge and most dangerous wrecker of rules and regulations, sir. He has fallen off his crate and spilled his beer, and I regret to inform you that you now owe him one. :mrgreen:

This is not true , will speak to you offline.

Thing is MWF is great there I said it, however I have a personal view point i.e. Tejas should have been kept a specialist and not a jack of all trades now before I get cornered for saying it let me clarify why I say what I say, I for one don't believe in multi/omni role nonsense that is just ppt giri , there is a reason US built both F-22 and F-35 they do one thing very well i.e. never drink your own koolaid. Tejas Mk1 armed with a good radar and a high T:W ratio would make the best interceptor out there . By trying to make everyone happy and trying to do too many things one generally lands up in a situation where you cannot do at least one thing better than everyone else in the field , that is what my belief is and it cuts across all fields be it aviation or even work.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36352
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby SaiK » 30 Mar 2019 23:05

Case in point: The Mig21s were fantastic interceptors; but will be toast w/ a strong CAP.

Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3229
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Kakkaji » 31 Mar 2019 08:21

negi wrote:Tejas Mk1 armed with a good radar and a high T:W ratio would make the best interceptor out there . By trying to make everyone happy and trying to do too many things one generally lands up in a situation where you cannot do at least one thing better than everyone else in the field.


Does Tejas Mk1A fit the bill better then?

Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3229
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Kakkaji » 31 Mar 2019 08:34

Theeran wrote:My suggestion for name

Vetri Vel - Victory lance
Veera Vel - brave lance
Both names are for Murugan's spear, our god of war.

Or Netrikan - Sivan's third eye


I think Vetri Vel is the name of some internal system used in Tejas.

IMHO, a fighter aircraft should not be named after a spear, which is more appropriate for a missile. Instead, a fighter aircraft should be named after a powerful bird of prey.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23361
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Austin » 31 Mar 2019 09:45

SaiK wrote:Why Austin ji? why are you reducing the MWF specs?


If that helps flying quality and thrust to weight why not

I am trying to get answer if a trade off with less payload will translate into better t:w and other parameter str etc

Just to catch up mirage payload to make replacable I hope they don't compromise on air superiority

Even a 4 T payload is good if you get superior flying quality and thrust weight above 1 with that payload

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16783
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Rahul M » 31 Mar 2019 10:48

Kakkaji wrote:
Theeran wrote:My suggestion for name

Vetri Vel - Victory lance
Veera Vel - brave lance
Both names are for Murugan's spear, our god of war.

Or Netrikan - Sivan's third eye


I think Vetri Vel is the name of some internal system used in Tejas.

IMHO, a fighter aircraft should not be named after a spear, which is more appropriate for a missile. Instead, a fighter aircraft should be named after a powerful bird of prey.
vetrivel is su30mki's mission computer.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66600
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Singha » 31 Mar 2019 12:12

i have a strange feeling, whether for lack of focus or contractual bars, we have really not kept on developing domestic subsystems and EW packages for the su30 beyond the initial flurry.
the program is in a state of ennui, with no clear roadmap into a phased MLU in terms of equipment and timeline.

IAF took the foot of pedal hoping for a payday of 126 rafales. ever since then, other than brahmos integration, what NEW has come on the su30mki in the last *10 years* ?

Zynda
BRFite
Posts: 1660
Joined: 07 Jan 2006 00:37
Location: J4

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Zynda » 31 Mar 2019 12:23

Karan can give a more accurate reply but I think recently, we integrated R118 Dhruti Digital RWR (expanded the number of mounting points to 6 to provide enhanced coverage).

The R118 Dhruti wideband Digital receivers were developed for the SU-30MKI. The digital receiver makes it possible to differentiate overlapping signals, differentiate single pulses among CW within a frequency band. This makes it better equipped to differentiate multiple radar threats with frequencies close to each other and also to differentiate radar emissions from the background noise. DARE is also working on digital narrowband receivers for better sensitivity and selectivity.


Also this...
DARE at Aero India had also indicated that it had developed a High Band Jammer (HBJ) pod for SU-30MKI aircraft to be carried at the wingtips. The new indigenous pod is expected to have better integration with the RWR on board than the existing Russian SAP-518 pods.


The source of the above is from this article. It also mentions some of the developments happening for other Russian (29UPG mainly) aircrafts as well as LCA.

Also Su-30 is the plane of choice to perform a whole lot of new weapons carriage & release tests as well as one of the first aircrafts to get integration. I don't know when IAF will finalize Super 30 upgrade, but it provide enhanced capabilities for the aircraft.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18255
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Karan M » 01 Apr 2019 01:31

Prasad wrote:
Austin wrote:The Tejas Mark 2 fighter has been bulked up into medium fighter category

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2019/03/ ... -been.html

Exactly whats new about this other than shrill scare-mongering?


I am guessing his privileged access to the MOD/HAL etc has reduced after all his abuse of GOI. Hence such filler articles.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18255
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Karan M » 01 Apr 2019 01:35

negi wrote:
Karan M wrote:Indranil, as you have called Negi, BR's ertswhile scourge and most dangerous wrecker of rules and regulations, sir. He has fallen off his crate and spilled his beer, and I regret to inform you that you now owe him one. :mrgreen:

This is not true , will speak to you offline.


Now you are refusing a free beer. :| All well? You know where to catch me.

Thing is MWF is great there I said it, however I have a personal view point i.e. Tejas should have been kept a specialist and not a jack of all trades now before I get cornered for saying it let me clarify why I say what I say, I for one don't believe in multi/omni role nonsense that is just ppt giri , there is a reason US built both F-22 and F-35 they do one thing very well i.e. never drink your own koolaid. Tejas Mk1 armed with a good radar and a high T:W ratio would make the best interceptor out there . By trying to make everyone happy and trying to do too many things one generally lands up in a situation where you cannot do at least one thing better than everyone else in the field , that is what my belief is and it cuts across all fields be it aviation or even work.


You are of course right.
Problem is the cost/numbers game has firmly moved the whole story to the Multi-Role story.
USN ended up adding Lantirn and LGB capability to the F-14. USAF started talking up precision strike capability of the F-22s. Plus it allows folks to do more with less. Net, especially for air frame constrained AFs like IAF, multi-role is here to stay. But we should optimize for A2A first and then the rest. At least keeps specs within a good range.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18255
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Karan M » 01 Apr 2019 01:39

Singha wrote:i have a strange feeling, whether for lack of focus or contractual bars, we have really not kept on developing domestic subsystems and EW packages for the su30 beyond the initial flurry.
the program is in a state of ennui, with no clear roadmap into a phased MLU in terms of equipment and timeline.


Zynda has the details, but we are revamping the entire Su-30 MKI EW suite and moving it to an Indian one.

Path so far on RWR site (for example): Tarang--> Tarang Mk1B---> R-118 ----> 6-channel R118 (to fix masking issue from canards + afterburners)---> 6-channel Digital R-118

IAF took the foot of pedal hoping for a payday of 126 rafales. ever since then, other than brahmos integration, what NEW has come on the su30mki in the last *10 years* ?


did a certain mahabharat character ever check his PM?
Astra, Litening 4I, EL-20600 RTP, Griffin NG-LGB, now SPICE-2000, amongst items for instance on the munitions front.
Desi ones in trials include the Garuda/Garuthma glide bombs with INS/SAL (30km/100km), SAAW, "dumb" 250/450/500kg HSLD, the desi FAE bomb.

In parallel, we have a lot of work going on at DARE for the Su-30 MLU. That includes Smart Wide Displays, new generation IMA Mission computers (to handle a lot of the processing load).

We also have 473 BNET SDRs on their way. My guess is the first batch will see max. integration with Su-30s, Jags and MiG-29s.

Radar - we now have an Uttam path.

Esp. if Russia continues to push for Bars-R and not an AESA, but we continue to need Russia for the engines.

Avtar Singh
BRFite
Posts: 103
Joined: 22 Jan 2017 02:07

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Avtar Singh » 01 Apr 2019 03:35

This airframe looks ripe for becoming a twin engined machine,
Indian engines please will save on FX

Raveen
BRFite
Posts: 590
Joined: 18 Jun 2008 00:51
Location: 1/2 way between the gutter and the stars
Contact:

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Raveen » 01 Apr 2019 05:59

Avtar Singh wrote:This airframe looks ripe for becoming a twin engined machine,
Indian engines please will save on FX

FX is the last thing on your mind when you're thinking about strategic interests like developing an engine

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9497
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Yagnasri » 01 Apr 2019 12:08

Ushas will be good name. Continuation of the name Tejas.

arshyam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3381
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby arshyam » 01 Apr 2019 23:49

Guys, let's suggest something dharmic as well as fiery. Tejas was dharmic and inoffensive enough. This is a bird of war, and it's name should reflect that. Someone mentioned birds of prey, but the Navy has taken most if the good ones I know, like Rajali, Garuda, Parundhu, Hansa, Baaz, etc. Any other ideas in that line?

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18255
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Karan M » 01 Apr 2019 23:57

Please guys no naming discussion for now. Keep it focused on the platform.

ks_sachin
BRFite
Posts: 984
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby ks_sachin » 02 Apr 2019 01:01

Karan M wrote:Please guys no naming discussion for now. Keep it focused on the platform.

Thank you.

The LCA was perfectly fine and so is the MWF as is the ALH.

Calling the LCA Tejas has not imbued in it anything out of the ordinary!

JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4225
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 22 Apr 2019 12:28


Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7618
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 25 Apr 2019 18:02

JayS, these artwork of the Mk2 are great. From where did you get them?

Image

Image

Image

gaurav.p
BRFite
Posts: 227
Joined: 04 May 2018 23:02

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby gaurav.p » 25 Apr 2019 18:28

^ It is from the video of MWF from AeroIndia if I am not wrong.

Don't remember where I saw it on the internet.

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7618
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 25 Apr 2019 20:05

Aah Okay. Thanks Gaurav.

ashishvikas
BRFite
Posts: 426
Joined: 17 Oct 2016 14:18

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby ashishvikas » 23 Aug 2019 09:12

ADA will unveil the LCA Tejas Mark II with a heavier stand-off weapon capacity in the 75th year of India’s independence, in 2022, and the long-awaited indigenous fighter, which will be manufactured by state-owned HAL will go into production by 2025-2026.

Indigenous light combat aircraft targeted by 2022
https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news ... H_amp.html

Image

Avinandan
BRFite
Posts: 184
Joined: 12 Jun 2005 12:29
Location: Pune

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Avinandan » 23 Aug 2019 15:12

ADA officials said the Mk II will have the same weight as the Mirage, Jaguar and Grippen but with a heavier GE 414 engine.

What does this mean ? Less payload but more TWR ?

JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2632
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JTull » 23 Aug 2019 15:32

Avinandan wrote:
ADA officials said the Mk II will have the same weight as the Mirage, Jaguar and Grippen but with a heavier GE 414 engine.

What does this mean ? Less payload but more TWR ?


Please read the first post of the thread.

Rsatchi
BRFite
Posts: 123
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Rsatchi » 23 Aug 2019 16:07

Kakkaji wrote:
Theeran wrote:My suggestion for name

Vetri Vel - Victory lance
Veera Vel - brave lance
Both names are for Murugan's spear, our god of war.

Or Netrikan - Sivan's third eye


I think Vetri Vel is the name of some internal system used in Tejas.

IMHO, a fighter aircraft should not be named after a spear, which is more appropriate for a missile. Instead, a fighter aircraft should be named after a powerful bird of prey.

How about Atayi ( in Sanskrit for kite or Cheel in hindi)
A medium sized bird with a 'V' Shaped tail :D

wig
BRFite
Posts: 1700
Joined: 09 Feb 2009 16:58

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby wig » 23 Aug 2019 16:16

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... Nt12H.html

Long-awaited indigenous light combat aircraft Tejas Mk II targeted by 2022


extracts


on Tejas Mark 2
Sanctioned by the government in 2009, the Mk II will be equipped with state-of-the-art AESA radar with the indigenously developed air-to-air missile Astra, which has a range of 70km. The beyond visual range missile is currently being tested on the IAF’s Su-30 MKI fighters.

and
The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) will unveil the Tejas Mark II with a heavier stand-off weapon capacity in the 75th year of India’s independence, in 2022, and the long-awaited indigenous fighter, which will be manufactured by the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), will go into production by 2025-2026, two senior defence officials said on condition of anonymity.
DRDO’s ADA finalised the design of the 17.5 ton Tejas Mark II (Mk-II) in December 2018, and is expected to lock in the design of the fifth generation twin-engine stealth fighter for Indian Air Force (IAF) by the end of the year. ADA officials said the Mk II will have the same weight as the Mirage, Jaguar and Grippen but with a heavier GE 414 engine. The qualitative requirements were frozen in late 2018, in full consultation and with the approval of the IAF, two years after the project was redesigned. The 4.5 generation fighter will go into production after the Tejas LCA (light combat aircraft) order of 123 aircraft to replace the air force’s ageing MiG-21s is completed.


regarding the AMCA
ADA and IAF are also moving rapidly on the development of the advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA). The 25-ton fighter will have all weapons in its belly and be powered by two engines capable of super-cruise speeds. AMCA will have complex S-shaped serpentine intakes. These hide the spinning turbine blades in the engine and are a key stealth feature. The super cruise feature allows the aircraft to accelerate without the use of after burners. Both features ensure minimum radar signatures.

JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4225
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 23 Aug 2019 16:50

^^ I wonder if the writer knows what he was writing. Amateurish report.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BALAR025, Raghunathgb, sarathy, uskumar and 69 guests