Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 19 Apr 2019 05:36

Sainik Samachar, April 2007

Role of Artillery in Kargil

...
The performance of the Artillery units which fought heroically at Kargil in 1999 during operation Vijay was splendid. The Indian Artillery fired over 250,000 shells, bombs and rockets during the Kargil conflict. Approximately, 5,000 ordnance were fired daily from more then 300 guns, mortars and multi-barreled rocket launchers (MBRLs). During the peak period of assaults, on an average, each Artillery battery fired over one round per minute for 17 days continuously. Such high rate of fire over long periods had not been witnessed anywhere in the world since World War-II. The Gunners soon developed blisters on their hands from carrying and loading heavy shells and cartridges incessantly. Very few of them got more than a couple of hours� sleep in 24 hour-cycle.
...

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 26 Apr 2019 21:44

PM talking about ATAGS (I think) in interview to AajTak.

https://youtu.be/V7Ep4VtePPk?t=643

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 26 Apr 2019 22:03

Wow. He knows about ATAGS and zeros in on range. :eek:

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 30 Apr 2019 02:01

Kalyani Group has started work (to be completed in 2 years) on a new Super Ultra Light Howitzer with hybrid recoil technology weighing at 3.2 tonnes. This gun would be transportable by a 6X6 and would be capable of rapid dismantling and carriage by Helicopters.This guns are planned to be equipped for Strike groups for Cold Start formations.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby sudeepj » 30 Apr 2019 22:15

The Mandus group has realized a 155mm soft recoil gun called Brutus (reference to French Caesar gun :D ). Some day soon, I think we will see it in Indian army.

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-arm ... nd-brutus/

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 30 Apr 2019 22:53

Vips wrote:Kalyani Group has started work (to be completed in 2 years) on a new Super Ultra Light Howitzer with hybrid recoil technology weighing at 3.2 tonnes. This gun would be transportable by a 6X6 and would be capable of rapid dismantling and carriage by Helicopters.This guns are planned to be equipped for Strike groups for Cold Start formations.

Might be a funny idea, but couldnt we there be an attempt for UAV/drone based transportation for artillery guns and ammunition. To Base locations through trucks and then to the final location through drones. That ways we can use the current pool of domestic guns rather than ultra cool/expensive imports. As a side system, they may support our supply lines in areas where the border roads are not great

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby ks_sachin » 01 May 2019 09:30

Which drone?

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 01 May 2019 12:04


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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 01 May 2019 14:53

ks_sachin wrote:Which drone?

not any existing but a large quadcopter or may be a combination of 3-4 that can carry large objects over small distances say few kms that can circumvent the absence of roads. we have many building blocks, light battery from ISRO, some experience on FBW/communication from Rustom/panchi etc. We can start with lower performance parameters. Not that I have any experience in this field, and may be this fits "design your drone better"

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 01 May 2019 22:52

ks_sachin wrote:Which drone?


He is suggesting that such a transportation drone be developed.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 02 May 2019 00:08

ArjunPandit wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:Which drone?

not any existing but a large quadcopter or may be a combination of 3-4 that can carry large objects over small distances say few kms that can circumvent the absence of roads. we have many building blocks, light battery from ISRO, some experience on FBW/communication from Rustom/panchi etc. We can start with lower performance parameters. Not that I have any experience in this field, and may be this fits "design your drone better"

Last one from me on this:

my point being we make arty guns, we make fans, we make batteries, we have experience in control laws, avionics. We can make dummy guns with similar shape and size (if not those can be imported from russia or even china) Even if actual product fails we can make good progress.

Resource constraint might not be an issue:
1. Manpower: Invite those (-1)chai wallahs and other engineering grads who are are spending life watching GoT and other sitcoms. Draw some juice from the investment that gormint has made in subsidizing their education. I am sure there would be a sizeable no. who would not mind doing it for free just for learning. At least I would have done it in my summer break and some internship
2. Use old retired guns
3. Transportation & Equippoment is GoI india already. I am sure few 1000 round trips wont dent IR budget. Acco: there are already guest houses/colleges in summers /vacation time in key DRDO cities like Delhi/Bangalore/Hyd/Chennai/Pune etc.
4. I am sure GOI can afford few computers/laptops and other hard ware for students to try

I am hopeful we can come with something over a 5-10 year horizon. It need not be the best, ~50Km (assuming china would find it hard to go beyond 50 km in any place) or we taking in arty 50 Km in a single ride. And on Chinese side we can use their fabled infra. No need for fancy 1 in a million fail rate. Boost with our domestic arty guns and accumulation of ammo. If not guns it can certainly provide food and other things to troops.

would be faster than waiting for NHAI to build highways after getting clearances. Better in the sense tea-nese will find it hard to sustain their ingress with a proper infra and a good arti based hammering.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 02 May 2019 01:04

Ok. No more of this drone project here.
I started a design your drone thread to which there are no takers.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby mmasand » 02 May 2019 02:10

I think the Chinooks are perfectly capable of air lifting the Howitzers/Dhanush to the front lines. Why reinvent the wheel. Besides a drone isn't going to carry the personnel that have to operate the gun.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 02 May 2019 03:08

mmasand wrote:I think the Chinooks are perfectly capable of air lifting the Howitzers/Dhanush to the front lines. Why reinvent the wheel. Besides a drone isn't going to carry the personnel that have to operate the gun.

my stupidity reminds me of the old example where students built watertank without accounting for weight of water

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 16 May 2019 01:10

Buried in this report is the stated root cause of the M777 shell break-up. The US supplier came up with a fault in the BCS charges made by OFB used in the user trials.
need to understand that.

Peregrine wrote:Army raises alarm over rising accidents due to faulty ammunition - Rajat Pandit
NEW DELHI: The Army has sounded an alarm over the unacceptably high number of accidents taking place in the field due to poor quality and defective ammunition being supplied for tanks, artillery, air defence and other guns by the state-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB).
Cheers Image

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Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Peregrine » 16 May 2019 14:37

ramana wrote:Buried in this report is the stated root cause of the M777 shell break-up. The US supplier came up with a fault in the BCS charges made by OFB used in the user trials. need to understand that.
ramana Ji :
Many Thanks Indeed.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby MeshaVishwas » 18 May 2019 15:18

https://twitter.com/UKDefenceIndia/status/1129663982829211648?s=19
A delegation from the Indian Army Artillery receive a brief from 5 Regt RA on their capabilities during an exchange visit to the unit in Catterick. The event provided a valuable opportunity to share information on weapon locating radars. ⁦@adgpi⁩ ⁦@ArtilleryRoyal⁩

Image

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby ashishvikas » 27 May 2019 08:57

Trials of advanced artillery gun begin in Pokhran range

http://m.timesofindia.com/articleshow/6 ... aign=cppst

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Kartik » 31 May 2019 01:18

ATAGS user trials to be concluded in 2 more months time. 2 prototypes, G1 and G2 from Tata Power SED and Kalyani Strategic Systems are being evaluated and the winner will get to build more of the ATAGS (G1 or G2), in a 2:1 ratio. But good to see that both the manufacturers will be rewarded for their efforts and that the IA will basically operate either the G1 or G2 variant, but not both.

Estimated cost- $524 million for 150 guns. Works out to ~$3.49 million each, possibly including PBL and spares, though we have no other details on the contract.

India to conclude user trials of locally developed howitzer


The Indian Army (IA) is expected to successfully complete user trials of the 155 mm/52 calibre Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS) within the next two months: a move that would pave the way to start series production of India's first locally designed howitzer.


Industry sources told Jane's that two different prototypes of the ATAGS, which was jointly developed by the state-owned Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and private-sector companies Tata Power SED, Bharat Forge and Kalyani Strategic Systems, have been undergoing trials with the IA since 24 May at Pokhran in India's north-western desert region.

The IA is expected to soon complete user trails, thus paving the way for series production of the weapon.

They said that once these trials are completed around July, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) will issue a request for proposals to both Tata Power, which provided the 'G1' prototype, and Bharat Forge, which provided the 'G2' prototype, for the supply of 150 guns for the IA for an estimated INR36.65 billion (USD524 million). The MoD's Defence Acquisition Council had approved the ATAGS procurement in August 2018.

Thereafter, one of two howitzer prototypes, either Tata Power's G1 or Bharat Forge's G2, is expected to be shortlisted for procurement based on performance and commercial bids.

Officials said the lowest bidder, or L1, will be awarded a contract to build 100 of the 150 ATAGSs while the runner-up will be allowed to manufacture the remaining 50 guns (of the same model) in what will be India's first-ever public-private partnership (PPP) project in the defence sector.



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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 31 May 2019 03:18

150 is too little. I hope this is just the first batch.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 31 May 2019 03:48

No it sets up the mfg facility.
In the old thread they said 40-50 guns would be enough to set up the mfg facility.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 31 May 2019 06:05

Rakesh wrote:150 is too little. I hope this is just the first batch.


Indian MOD trying yet again to make pakodas from pee!! :rotfl:

Boss, industries are not created from peanuts. Place an order of 400 guns!

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby manjgu » 31 May 2019 08:45

the no 1 gun in the competition should service IA and no 2 should be allowed to export the gun ?

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby jaysimha » 03 Jun 2019 11:22

Newspapers Clippings from drdo
Vol. 44 No. 103 28 May 2019

details of India conducting firing trials of ATAGS howitzer in Rajasthan
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/npc/20 ... ay2019.pdf

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby atreya » 03 Jun 2019 17:12

Noob query

Saw this post on FB of a martyr (may he rest in peace): https://www.facebook.com/protectindiamy ... =3&theater

The unit mentioned is "17 Para Field Regiment". The rank is 'Paratrooper', he is wearing a red beret. Bit of digging confirmed this is not incorrect reporting, there are 'Para Field Regiments'. Link - https://www.paradata.org.uk/unit/9-para ... XYSTiNdeUY

Can anyone give any more details on such units? Are they artillerymen who are para-dropped into the field? Or are they regular paratroopers attached to artillery units? What is their role and training exactly?

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby ParGha » 03 Jun 2019 21:27

They are gunners (artillery men) who are airborne qualified to jump with their guns. The 50th Para Brigade has one regiment of such field artillery (105mm guns) in Army HQ reserve, and another in field duty. It alternates between 9 and 17 Para Field Artillery. Their role is to provide sustained fire support for the para brigade until the ground forces link up and relieve the brigade.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 11 Jun 2019 00:15

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1138064517319946242 ----> And now for some OFB innovation. Gun & Shell Factory is going to mount an AK-630 on a Tatra truck and slave it to a radar & an electro-optical device in order to engage low-flying drones. Basically a desi analogue of the Centurion C-RAM or land-based PHALANX.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1138062137656352768 ---> OFB's Gun & Shell Factory has indigenized the 'pneumatic group' for the AK-630 Naval Gun of Russian design. This is significant because it has been done without support from the OEM and now can be procured for one-third the cost of the imported version.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 11 Jun 2019 00:29

SJha Also tweeted that BAE is seeking some barrels for testing in their facility.

Could be for the M777 gun.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 11 Jun 2019 02:12

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1138064517319946242 ----> And now for some OFB innovation. Gun & Shell Factory is going to mount an AK-630 on a Tatra truck and slave it to a radar & an electro-optical device in order to engage low-flying drones. Basically a desi analogue of the Centurion C-RAM or land-based PHALANX.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1138062137656352768 ---> OFB's Gun & Shell Factory has indigenized the 'pneumatic group' for the AK-630 Naval Gun of Russian design. This is significant because it has been done without support from the OEM and now can be procured for one-third the cost of the imported version.

Wouldnt this also be inexpensive solution for super mushak and even helis that venture close...

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 11 Jun 2019 02:13

Indeed Ramana-ji. Here it is....

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1138065923955314688 ---> Interestingly, BAE Systems has placed orders on India's Ordnance Factory Board for the supply of Bofors Gun Barrels to a certain test facility owned by it.

That AK-630 rotary cannon is really powerful and creates one hell of a ruckus....


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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 11 Jun 2019 02:14

ArjunPandit wrote:Wouldnt this also be inexpensive solution for super mushak and even helis that venture close...

Perhaps. I love the concept. Would be an excellent system to drown enemy drones.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby srin » 14 Jun 2019 11:25

I hope this gets inducted soon and not be bogged down by "overweight" issues.
Advanced artillery gun to be ready for user trial by September
India’s first fully integrated Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS) will be ready for crucial user (army) trials by early September this year, a senior official of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) told TOI on Wednesday.
“A team of scientists from Pune-based Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) and army officers from the Corps of Artillery conducted a key user assistant technical trial (UATT) of the gun between May 20 and June 5 at the firing range of Pokhran in Rajasthan. The gun has achieved all desired results during the trial, which is why we are confident of giving the gun for the army’s trials,” the official added. The gun has achieved critical technical objectives such as accuracy, range, day, night firing and mobility. “We have fired all types of ammunitions. The gun has hit a target at 45km distance. We have tested other technical parameters too,” said another senior official involved in the project.


The army and DRDO have already completed desert and high-altitude trials in Rajasthan and Sikkim in the last two years. “The gun has produced excellent results. Our endeavour is to induct the gun in the force by 2020,” added the official.


The ATAGS is the first indigenous 155mm/52-calibre towed gun. It is one of the guns in the world having six-round ‘automated magazine’ that fires in 30 seconds. The gun has all-electric drive, an advantage over traditional hydraulic drives, which are common in other towed guns. The electric drives of the ATAGS provides controls in handling ammunition, opening and closing breech mechanism and ramming the round into firing chamber,” said a scientist involved in the project.


The existing 155/mm and 52 calibre guns have three-round magazines, which need to be reloaded manually.


During this exercise maximum burst takes place, which have often resulted in casualties, said defence sources

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 20 Jun 2019 04:10

Looks like first Dhanush guns handed over to Army in April 2019

viewtopic.php?p=2362029#p2362029

Read the pdf

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 20 Jun 2019 13:42

ramana wrote:Looks like first Dhanush guns handed over to Army in April 2019

viewtopic.php?p=2362029#p2362029

Read the pdf


OFB conducted the hand over Dhanush to the army on 8th April, video in the link below

https://twitter.com/DrUddipan/status/11 ... 7307991040

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby abhik » 07 Jul 2019 23:47

Indian Army to buy American Howitzer ammo for long-range accurate strikes https://zeenews.india.com/india/indian- ... 17406.html

Looks like we are buying Excalibur rounds. Hope they can be integrated with Bofors/Dhanush too.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 08 Jul 2019 02:18

500 rounds would cost upwards of $30Mn assuming $68K per round (figure from net).......

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby brar_w » 08 Jul 2019 03:16

abhik wrote:Indian Army to buy American Howitzer ammo for long-range accurate strikes https://zeenews.india.com/india/indian- ... 17406.html Looks like we are buying Excalibur rounds.


The "more than 50 km" refers to the 70 km objective requirement from the upgraded M982 1b-increment II when paired with the 58 caliber ERCA Paladin. The currently in production Excalibur 1B has already demonstrated Precision attack at 62 km range with 58 cal guns. Max. range with 39 cal guns is around 40 km. Increment III will introduce a fire-forget seeker and RF data link for both improved static and moving target capability (internally dubbed the M982 HTK).

This is not a replacement for standard or even the precision artillery shells. From a CONOPS perspective, the M982 opens up new missions which would have earlier involved PGM effects being delivered by other means (fixed or rotary winged aircraft, or precision guided rockets).



Raytheon, in collaboration with the US Army, has now finalised development and testing of a new Excalibur Shaped Trajectory (EST) variant of the 1b.

“EST is a software upgrade for improved performance and manoeuvrability,” Paul R Daniels, senior manager, International and Growth Programs, Precision Indirect Fires at Raytheon, told Jane’s . “A reprogramming port on the side of the projectile enables legacy 1b rounds with the EST capability,” he said.

The conventional Excalibur mode of engagement is vertical attack; the EST upgrade enables field commanders to engage targets in hard-to-reach locations by selecting the projectile’s terminal or final phase angle of attack and angle of fall. With the EST upgrade, the 1b projectile can now perform off-axis shots, or reverse slope engagements over tall terrain features for hidden or obscured targets, including performing vertical u-turn manoeuvres to engage the target from behind. According to Daniels, the Excalibur EST allows the commander to engage a particular side of a targeted building, or defeat a target hidden under bridges or motorway overpasses.

The EST software build from start to demonstration (in October) was concluded in six months, and all software development is now finalised. As part of its contract with the army, the service’s 1b inventory will be reprogrammed with the new EST software. EST will also be cut into new production projectiles in 2019.


https://www.janes.com/article/83954/ray ... hancements

abhik wrote:Hope they can be integrated with Bofors/Dhanush too.


The round is already integrated with 39, 52 and 58 caliber 155mm guns (and there is even talk of exploring integration with 62 caliber 155mm systems (AGS)) so I don't think this will be an issue.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Prasad » 08 Jul 2019 09:45

Where is this requirement coming from all of a sudden? I wonder if they evinced interest in such ammunition earlier? I remember there was talk of Krasnopol rounds but dont think IA even tried those.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 08 Jul 2019 10:25

And the other question now that we have Guided Pinaka rockets, why not make guided 155mm shells within our country itself. We need these in numbers so we dont need to keeping stocking these for real war like IAF started Kargil war with 60 PGM's. Ammunition, guided munitions and Missiles there must be enough to keep using them on the smaller clashes till it becomes too costly for the Pakis.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 08 Jul 2019 11:29

the challenge would in making a sensor pkg for the shell that can withstand the G force of being fired from barrel.
anything like MLRS, missiles gets fired a lot slower.


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