Indian Military Helicopters

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Hari Nair » 15 Sep 2020 11:00

tsarkar wrote:
Raghunathgb wrote:https://twitter.com/HALHQBLR/status/1303576985411547136?s=19HAL’s Indigenous LUH Completes Hot and High Altitude Trials in Himalayas

Congratulations .... for the wonderful achievement. I hope all test points were successfully achieved.


Sarakar Saar, Thank You very much indeed and I have conveyed the message to Team LUH!

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Hari Nair » 15 Sep 2020 11:04

Cybaru wrote:
ramana wrote:
And all don't fret about the 15 LCH. They and more will be bought in December.



Whats the special about December? Why wait till December?


Ramana Saar seems to have a little birdie who tells him .. :)

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nachiket » 15 Sep 2020 11:19

Hari Nair wrote:
ramana wrote:Hari Nair What is needed for that please?

Saar,
The work content for Hellfire integration should not be too much.

As I had posted earlier, each weapon usually comes with its own set of unique Line Replaceable Units (LRUs), even though the missile may be compatible to slap onto the LCH weapon pylon. Some amount of re-cabling is required for those LRUs. IIRC, the Hellfire comes in two versions - laser & RF guided. If RF, then some additional LRUs, etc need integration.

Some flight trials to confirm separation characteristics and of course, firing trials from the LCH will be required.

As other forum members had already pointed out, the need of the hour is to take that decision! The rest will follow.

Sir was any reason given for not making that decision (either by MoD or IAF) to integrate? Either the Hellfire or something else. And is the Helina dead then? No more information seems to be coming out about that missile. This just seems like a glaring and obvious oversight, to have an indigenous combat helicopter ready to be inducted, but no info being provided to the designers about which weapon to integrate on it. So obvious in fact that one wonders whether it is being done on purpose.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby jamwal » 15 Sep 2020 15:21

I have some hypothetical questions about capabilities of Dhruv and Rudra.

How many fully armed soldiers can one Dhruv carry while taking off from 4500-4200m and crossing peaks 5800-6000m high?
What payload can Rudra be armed with while carrying 6 or more fully armed soldiers?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby sajaym » 15 Sep 2020 16:27

All the current ALH subvariants have a similar intake and exhaust layout. But the IMRH seems to have a very different intake/exhaust layout. Is it because the designers are making a provision for the same engines as the MI-17 (in case our current engines fall short) or is it because such a layout is more preferable for such a heavier class of helicopters?

Image

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby rpartha » 15 Sep 2020 17:01

ramana wrote:V.

And all don't fret about the 15 LCH. They and more will be bought in December.
.

Sir, a doubt - order will be placed by december or it will fly out by december?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby tsarkar » 15 Sep 2020 17:04

Hari Nair wrote:
ramana wrote:Hari Nair What is needed for that please?

Saar,
The work content for Hellfire integration should not be too much.

As I had posted earlier, each weapon usually comes with its own set of unique Line Replaceable Units (LRUs), even though the missile may be compatible to slap onto the LCH weapon pylon. Some amount of re-cabling is required for those LRUs. IIRC, the Hellfire comes in two versions - laser & RF guided. If RF, then some additional LRUs, etc need integration.

Some flight trials to confirm separation characteristics and of course, firing trials from the LCH will be required.

As other forum members had already pointed out, the need of the hour is to take that decision! The rest will follow.


Dear Hari,

Wanted to share some thoughts here.

India is an electoral democracy and unfortunately military hardware like helicopters dont give votes. Similarly before postal ballots, soldiers too didnt get to vote.

What this means is military spending is least priority for any Govt given that such spending has no Return of Investment during elections. There may be announcements by leaders but this is the harsh reality.

This leads to only emergency military spending based on "Acceptance of Necessity" and not planned spending. Even in emergency spending, foreign vendors like Dassault, Boeing, Rosoboronexport will be paid first because of 1. Need of their diplomatic support in UN, etc and 2. these companies will bring their Govt's pressure on GoI.

As a result, less money and priority remains for indigenous equipment.

Typically emergency military spending is done when the enemy is breathing down our neck. At that point of time, the user (IAF or AAC) will want a fully integrated machine. There is no time remaining to integrate weapons, even if the work is very less. And emergency decisions will typically veer towards fully integrated helicopters like Apache or Mi-25/35.

What would help is if HAL proactively gives pre-integrated weapons along with its platforms investing its own money rather than waiting for users to specify.

Secondly, whenever integrating a weapon, the supplier will offer a lot of support. However when integration is complete, the supplier will immediately jack up the prices. This again creates barriers for rapid induction.

Going by media reports, it looks like FZ is doing some hanky panky by raising prices for rockets given that they are the only rocket integrated with Rudra and LCH. Same with Nexter for 20mm gun ammunition.

Solution to this is integrating two competitive weapons. This will ensure user can play one supplier against the other. Competition between the two will keep prices down.

Hellfire and Spike are the top ATGM's in the market. BAe & FZ for rockets. IN has purchased BAe APKWS, so it'll be a useful addition to Rudra & LCH. Mistral & Stinger for anti UAV and anti helicopter operations. And possibly a US gun in addition to Nexter to prevent Nexter from extorting a high price for the 20 mm ammunition.

We Indians have a bad habit of giving unsolicited advice, so I tender my apologies in advance for the same :) However I strongly believe this will greatly improve and accelerate HAL orders from its customers.

This will also help in competitive export opportunities. Many Eastern European nations need Western compatible equipment but cannot afford. Same in South America, South Asia and other geographies. HAL can commercially fill those lucrative niches.

We also have a very supportive Union Defence Secretary Dr Ajay Kumar who is a BTech from IIT Kanpur. Based on my observations, he has taken some very good decisions. I am sure he will be supportive of HAL efforts.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Vivek K » 15 Sep 2020 18:28

Tsarkar ji, can you expand on why the military needs emergency purchases. Is it due to poor planning, poor MOD procurement process, or financial constraints? Does it mean that despite assurances by service chiefs that the military remains ready, there are gaps that make the military not battle ready.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby fanne » 15 Sep 2020 18:46

The total ATGM holding of IA/IAF is in the order of 60,000s. Mostly second gen russian/french origin. We need additional (eventually) 10,000 heliborne ATGM for 100 Rudras and 150 LCH. Pulling all these to 3rd/4th generation is easily 10-15 billion affair (spread over say next 20 years). We need our Nag and it will be there, even if we order some additional 1000-5000 foreign sourced missiles(Point to note for people who do not get it and like a rot, keep repeating the same, importing Spike/Hellfire/anything else does not kill Nag). Spike is reportedly 1/3rd costly as Hellfire and we operate both. Get any integrated to LCH/Rudra and have that capability now for Ladhaak face off (they will come in handy against armored divisions that chinese have fielded). I would go with spike (but have other options as, having single vendor is not good for future price). Reportedly we have Spike ER for the ground forces, about time we mounted that on the Helis.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby tsarkar » 15 Sep 2020 19:54

Vivek K wrote:Tsarkar ji, can you expand on why the military needs emergency purchases. Is it due to poor planning, poor MOD procurement process, or financial constraints? Does it mean that despite assurances by service chiefs that the military remains ready, there are gaps that make the military not battle ready.

Answered in the first lines itself -
India is an electoral democracy and unfortunately military hardware like helicopters dont give votes. Similarly before postal ballots, soldiers too didnt get to vote. What this means is military spending is least priority for any Govt given that such spending has no Return of Investment during elections.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby manjgu » 15 Sep 2020 21:48

Vivek K wrote:Tsarkar ji, can you expand on why the military needs emergency purchases. Is it due to poor planning, poor MOD procurement process, or financial constraints? Does it mean that despite assurances by service chiefs that the military remains ready, there are gaps that make the military not battle ready.


during peacetime the babus are sleepwalking and lo behold we have an emergency and then the item which was negotiated for rs 100 get bought for Rs 500 and guess who all stand to gain !! :eek:

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Vivek K » 15 Sep 2020 21:56

Sad! Hopefully the beauties on this page (LCH, ALH, Rudra, LUH) play a larger role in defending India in the future. Come next global geopolitic uupheaval, and if India is not on the right side, some of the fancy toys purchased recently could become white elephants without any domestic solutions. Hopefully that scenario will not come to pass.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 16 Sep 2020 07:15

Hari Nair wrote:
Cybaru wrote:
Whats the special about December? Why wait till December?


Ramana Saar seems to have a little birdie who tells him .. :)



I have no birdie but funds limitation is clear. By December the second tranche of stimulus would need to be released and with the Ladakh confrontation going on, makes sense to spend on things that services need.

And thanks for the info on Hellfire.
Good to hear from the test pilot.

Congratulations on the LUH certification.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 16 Sep 2020 07:17

Does the LCH need a laser pod or operate on.buddy system?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Hari Nair » 16 Sep 2020 14:36

ramana wrote:Does the LCH need a laser pod or operate on.buddy system?


Yes the LCH already has laser integrated. Does not need either a pod or buddy to lase.


tsarkar wrote:....Wanted to share some thoughts here...
...Even in emergency spending, foreign vendors like Dassault, Boeing, Rosoboronexport will be paid first because of 1. Need of their diplomatic support in UN, etc and 2. these companies will bring their Govt's pressure on GoI.

As a result, less money and priority remains for indigenous equipment.

Typically emergency military spending is done when the enemy is breathing down our neck. At that point of time, the user (IAF or AAC) will want a fully integrated machine. There is no time remaining to integrate weapons, even if the work is very less. And emergency decisions will typically veer towards fully integrated helicopters like Apache or Mi-25/35.

What would help is if HAL proactively gives pre-integrated weapons along with its platforms investing its own money rather than waiting for users to specify.

Secondly, whenever integrating a weapon, the supplier will offer a lot of support. However when integration is complete, the supplier will immediately jack up the prices. This again creates barriers for rapid induction...

...FZ is doing some hanky panky by raising prices for rockets given that they are the only rocket integrated with Rudra and LCH. Same with Nexter for 20mm gun ammunition.

Solution to this is integrating two competitive weapons. This will ensure user can play one supplier against the other. Competition between the two will keep prices down...

We also have a very supportive Union Defence Secretary Dr Ajay Kumar ... I am sure he will be supportive of HAL efforts.


Extremely well elucidated ! Some very key points have been made! I do hope the Powers That Be read this and implement!

Re- weapons trials / fitment on own initiative by OEMs - unfortunately that may be very difficult - There is little chance of a country selling its missiles, rockets or ammo to a foreign company - weapons are controlled exports, IIRC.
Even if that hurdle is overcome in some manner, the logistics, storage and handling of weapons for flight trials in-country is another B-I-G hurdle, with all the control checks and measures in place.
That includes even the weapons made in-country.
There has to be the involvement of the user Service in this process, else it usually becomes a non-starter.


jamwal wrote:I have some hypothetical questions about capabilities of Dhruv and Rudra.

How many fully armed soldiers can one Dhruv carry while taking off from 4500-4200m and crossing peaks 5800-6000m high?
What payload can Rudra be armed with while carrying 6 or more fully armed soldiers?


Excellent questions! Given that the DSDBO valley and East Ladakh sector is being swarmed with a whole lot of our ALH-III & Rudras, I am sure the Superior Han Army fellas are also asking themselves the same and getting rather dismayed with what they observe... :).
I can assure you that the numbers are very good, if not the very best in class. And that's not just numbers read off the graphs - its from personal experience, having airlifted a ridiculously high number of chaps on board in a Mk-III from a 4600 m elevation helipad. That helicopter is a bulldog even when maxed out- its got a ridiculously high power margin, great control power and just shakes off some of the horrible Clear Air Turbulence (CAT) that's prevalent over the 6000 m ridge-lines.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Kartik » 16 Sep 2020 15:49

A pleasure to read your posts, Hari Nair sir!

What are your thoughts on the Ka-226T and why there is still any intent to build it in India when there is the LUH that has crossed all hurdles and is on the verge of a service order?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Hari Nair » 16 Sep 2020 17:05

Kartik wrote:...What are your thoughts on the Ka-226T and why there is still any intent to build it in India when there is the LUH that has crossed all hurdles and is on the verge of a service order?


The Ka-226 is an Inter-Govt deal, possibly as a QPQ for another strategic deal.
There are not too many 226s flying worldwide. So data on operational aspects, including reliability & maintainability are not easy to come by.
The helicopter cleared the evaluation that was done by the Army, the lead Service for the exercise.
Compared to the LUH, its definitely a few notches down in terms of tech. And of course, we don't have the IPRs. So mods and updates will be a roundabout process.
Its up to the Powers That Be to decide on continuing with the Ka or to 'axe' it. However, as mentioned earlier, it may not be as simple as that, with other factors playing a role.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 16 Sep 2020 22:11

Hari Nair thanks a lot.

The big picture is need to have second source aerospace industry to HAL.

And IA says they can use that mule.
And QPQ is always there.
If they collapses it causes strategic disorder like in the 1990s.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Hari Nair » 17 Sep 2020 09:50

ramana wrote:...And IA says they can use that mule...

:lol: A mule indeed and its a fairly large one at that - I would estimate its got about 80% of the footprint of the ALH, which itself is a class higher in terms of All-Up-Weight, payload, etc.

It also appears to have the aerodynamics of a barn door.

I am not so sure whether going the Russian option will give a viable alternative to HAL. The ALH is a Western philosophy based design and that's carried over to other designs - the LCH & LUH.

The Soviet / Russian philosophy designs may appear rugged and cost little upfront, but do they match the Western designs in reliability & life-cycle costs?

Also, the Ka-226T appears to be a re-engine (turboshaft) version of the piston powered Ka-26 that appeared in the '70s. That original piston Ka-26 had sold in good numbers. I am not sure whether the transmission and rotors have also evolved or whether its still retains that original design.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby tsarkar » 17 Sep 2020 20:43

Are there any technical benefits of the co-axial rotor system?

Some reports I read mentioned co-axial rotors offered better stability in updraft, downdraft, wind shear conditions in the mountains. I am not sure of the accuracy of those reports since they did not further elaborate.

Russian ships, including those in IN service, operating co-axial helicopters do not require helicopter hauldown and recovery systems for bad weather, the reason supposedly being the stability offered by the co-axial rotors.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhJyq07VgAA ... ame=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhJyqltVgAE ... ame=medium

Would love to understand from you the pros and cons of co-axial vs tail rotor system.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby KSingh » 17 Sep 2020 21:34

ramana wrote:Vivek Ahuja, The 6 Apaches is on.top of the 22 Apaches. While it looks pathetic these are for Paki Armored brigades.

Now we find them.flying in Ladakh.

And all don't fret about the 15 LCH. They and more will be bought in December.

I like the idea of integrating the Hellfire on LCH as early capability while waiting for Nag derivative.

The contract for the 15 LCH LSP May very well be placed in December (fingers crossed) but are you really expecting a contract for more than these 15? I don’t see any chance of that



+ guys has KA-226 ever flown to Siachin or Sonam? Other than to keep Putin happy I cannot conceive of a reason to pursue a deal for a helo that is more expensive to buy, more expensive to operate and will complicate your logistics and Training all whilst under cutting your own project (LUH)


No other country on the planet that had a beast like LUH on its hands would even be entertaining the KA-226 and in the kind of numbers they are talking about (200), how is this not the scandal of the decade?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby KSingh » 17 Sep 2020 21:38

sajaym wrote:All the current ALH subvariants have a similar intake and exhaust layout. But the IMRH seems to have a very different intake/exhaust layout. Is it because the designers are making a provision for the same engines as the MI-17 (in case our current engines fall short) or is it because such a layout is more preferable for such a heavier class of helicopters?

Look at the CH-53 and H225M, very similar engine layout to the IMRH, I guess it’s because of the larger size of the helo ve the engine size
Last edited by Rakesh on 17 Sep 2020 22:55, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Post edited to remove pictures

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby KSingh » 17 Sep 2020 21:43

ramana wrote:Hari Nair thanks a lot.

The big picture is need to have second source aerospace industry to HAL.
.

That would be nice except Russian helicopters has signed a MoU with HAL to assemble the KA-226 at the same facility (Tumkur) as the LUH

This deal would sting less had RH tied up with TASL or Mahindra and got a greenfield facility set up in say Nihan SEZ but as it stands all it is doing is taking away orders and production capacity for the HAL LUH

India is actually paying billions to be worse off, words fail me.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 17 Sep 2020 22:24

That's our preference but they chose HAL and we need to live with it.

Constant criticisms after decision has been made only undermines the decision.
Indian tradition is debate before and silence after.

All these are small things..
The big decision of Negative Import List has been decided.
Rest is funding and execution.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 17 Sep 2020 22:25

tsarkar wrote:Are there any technical benefits of the co-axial rotor system?

Some reports I read mentioned co-axial rotors offered better stability in updraft, downdraft, wind shear conditions in the mountains. I am not sure of the accuracy of those reports since they did not further elaborate.

Russian ships, including those in IN service, operating co-axial helicopters do not require helicopter hauldown and recovery systems for bad weather, the reason supposedly being the stability offered by the co-axial rotors.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhJyq07VgAA ... ame=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhJyqltVgAE ... ame=medium

Would love to understand from you the pros and cons of co-axial vs tail rotor system.



Deejay can also weigh in on this.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nachiket » 17 Sep 2020 22:27

If the deal for Carbines can be junked after it is made (despite lack of clarity on indigenous alternative) the Ka-226 deal can definitely be junked now since the LUH has passed all necessary trials. I don't agree with this "Silence after" tradition. If it really is a tradition it needs to be done away with. Too many mindless decisions (or lack of them) in the Defence procurement sphere in India. We need to make more noise about them not less.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 17 Sep 2020 22:30

Sure go ahead and keep making noise if that please you.
The IA chose the helicopter.
The JV factory to make is being setup.
Carcal cancellation is not same thing.

------------
KSingh please wait and watch about the orders.
We both will be there to keep giving inputs.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nachiket » 17 Sep 2020 22:43

ramana wrote:Sure go ahead and keep making noise if that please you.
The IA chose the helicopter.
The JV factory to make is being setup.
Carcal cancellation is not same thing.

LUH production capacity will depend on how much money is spent on the production facilities and the order size. The more money we spend on the Ka-226 production, the less is available for the LUH. In fact looking at the present financial situation, we may not see any order at all for years if the Ka-226 deal goes ahead. There are so many other acquisitions hanging fire.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 17 Sep 2020 23:00

When you are facing the China threat money is not a constraint.
India will have both KA 226 and LUH.
And the NUH for the IN.
No imports.
Do you think military/financial planners are unaware of what you know from the open press?
NS is working hard to find the resources.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby srin » 17 Sep 2020 23:09

KA-226 was an IGA and signed by two heads of state. We may spend a decade negotiating, but it won't get cancelled.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Vivek K » 17 Sep 2020 23:18

ramana wrote:When you are facing the China threat money is not a constraint.
India will have both KA 226 and LUH.
And the NUH for the IN.
No imports.

Help me understand - IA is buying KA 226 and IN wants to buy anything but HAL’s offerings. Is that a correct understanding? So since these two are imported how can we say “no imports”?

Do you think military/financial planners are unaware of what you know from the open press?
NS is working hard to find the resources.

This response does not allow debate - only suppresses questions. Why is BRF adopting this approach?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nachiket » 17 Sep 2020 23:29

ramana wrote:When you are facing the China threat money is not a constraint.

Neither the Ka-226 not the LUH are going to be available in time to have an impact on the current crisis. This is not an emergency procurement.

Do you think military/financial planners are unaware of what you know from the open press?

Any and all discussion and criticism of decisions made or not made in defence procurement can be shut down by that line of thinking.

NS is working hard to find the resources.

I have no doubt that he is. But he doesn't have a magic wand. Covid and other economic issues cannot be wished away and resources will be limited for the foreseeable future. Arguing that spending those precious resources on a homegrown product that fulfills all our needs (and would ensure that more of that money gets spent within the country leading to other benefits) rather than a foreign one is a legitimate argument wouldn't you agree?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby fanne » 18 Sep 2020 01:07

KA-226T vs LUH
2 engine vs 1 engine
lighter vs heavier
robust vs sophisticated

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 18 Sep 2020 01:36

NS is Nirmala Sitaraman.
Finance Minister.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nachiket » 18 Sep 2020 02:03

Sorry I read it as RNS (Rajnath Singh). My bad.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby tsarkar » 18 Sep 2020 03:56

KSingh wrote:India is actually paying billions to be worse off, words fail me.

Did you listen to French Foreign Minister in Ambala saying France will support India's bid for permanent membership for UNSC?

Most deals are QPQ for similar reasons.

The rush to buy Naval Seahawk was such that no competition was held. No one even questioned the G2G deal :D Atleast the Mi-26 competed against the Chinook and Mi-28 against the Apache.

Given that India wont reduce tariffs for fully imported Harley Davidson and Ford Mustang, something gotta give and it was the Seahawks, Apaches and more P-8I to balance the trade imbalance.

All for the greater good. Atleast indigenous Maruti and Royal Enfield aren't disadvantaged against foreign products.

The PM & FM has to balance all decisions. The PM & FM are PM & FM of India and not PM & FM of Defence.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ManuJ » 18 Sep 2020 06:03

fanne wrote:KA-226T vs LUH
2 engine vs 1 engine
lighter vs heavier
robust vs sophisticated

Is LUH really heavier than KA-226T?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Vivek K » 18 Sep 2020 06:16

tsarkar wrote:
KSingh wrote:India is actually paying billions to be worse off, words fail me.

Did you listen to French Foreign Minister in Ambala saying France will support India's bid for permanent membership for UNSC?

Most deals are QPQ for similar reasons.
.

Great! Have the PM and FM of India solved how to get China’s nod for the permanent seat in the UNSC? Or are we hurting ourselves for a Mirage (pun intended)?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Hari Nair » 18 Sep 2020 11:52

tsarkar wrote:Are there any technical benefits of the co-axial rotor system?

Some reports I read mentioned co-axial rotors offered better stability in updraft, downdraft, wind shear conditions in the mountains. I am not sure of the accuracy of those reports since they did not further elaborate.

Russian ships, including those in IN service, operating co-axial helicopters do not require helicopter hauldown and recovery systems for bad weather, the reason supposedly being the stability offered by the co-axial rotors.
... pros and cons of co-axial vs tail rotor system.


The coaxial system gets rid of the tail rotor and the additional power it absorbs - up to 15% in hover. So for a navy 'helo' that spends a substantial amount of time in hover and dunking its sonar sensor - that translates into better hover performance or better fuel consumption. Ditto for tasks requiring external undersling loads.

The coaxial in its pure form may give better handling in some aspects. But then, current gen conventional helicopters have stabilisation equipment that overcome any handling deficiencies. Even the Kamovs have stabilisation equipment.

Recovery on ships - the Kamovs have a quadricycle undercarriage to help with stability on rolling ships. Anti-skid nets are used on decks to assist landing. However, a Recovery Assist system is a more effective method for landing in rough seas.

Some disadvantages of coaxials are- complexity and restrictions in agility.
The two rotors can come close and even intersect in the event the pilot exceeds laid down restrictions in manoeuvres. So,the coaxial Ka-50/52 attack helicopter have restrictions, even though the individual rotors are 'stiff' with fairly high flapping hinge-offset.

Prem Kumar
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Prem Kumar » 18 Sep 2020 13:19

tsarkar wrote:All for the greater good. Atleast indigenous Maruti and Royal Enfield aren't disadvantaged against foreign products.

The PM & FM has to balance all decisions. The PM & FM are PM & FM of India and not PM & FM of Defence.


Don't disagree that PM/FM have to keep the larger picture in mind, but there are ways to do QPQ without hurting the indigenous industry. Some "viveka" can be employed here. Example: the P8I or the MH-60s don't have domestic equivalents and make for good purchases. So does S-400 or even Apaches for that matter.

But NSAMS and KA-226 fail that test because better domestic alternatives exist


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